Black rock journal

[Mezmo]

I figure since no one is creeping on here much lately I'll throw an idea out there for possible discussion.
We know that the journal kept by faraday ended up back in the 70's. So what if the journal of the Black Rock's first mate is the very same journal. Making Daniel the first mate of the Black Rock.
It's been stated the the seller of the journal is a Honso, so what if the journal was the reason that the Dharma Initiative got started and found the island in the first place?
And it might also explain why Faraday was at Dharma HQ doing some reasearch.
The only hole in this theory would be if Daniel had the journal on the island in the 70's and of course the fact that Faraday is all dead and everything....but lets ignore that and suspend disbelief for a moment.
I know he had it in 2007 before the flashes started, but does anyone recall seeing him with the journal after the flashes started?
I sure don't....
Anyone?

[pnkdva]

I believe Daniel did have his journal during the flashes. If I remember correctly he had consulted it on a number of occassions as things were changing. We do know he had it with him when his mother shot him, she wondered how her hand writing was in it when she didnt remember writing it. To detonate the bomb Sayid and the others had his journal....

I am curious to know what happened to Daniel the 3 years he left the island. We saw what happened to everyone else...

[Doriandan]

I thought the whole Daniel just dying for fate purposes was kinda cheap.

He's Widmore and Ele's son for crying out loud!

How can his journey to death not be properly explained? He is born, studies, graduates, has an "accident" and as soon as he got on that island he became very mysterious; The climaxwas the only true mystique about him: was he brought to journal so the "incident" would happen

But many things are unanswered and we need more closure on his whole tie in, unless of course he built the lamp post and is pre birth... ?

[lilsev42]

Now ,your with me.This guy is way to important to just havbe history repeat itself,this guy could change anything .but how he dies.Dam woman of a mom never even got on the same page to help not kill him,she just kinda nudged him.If Elle was the leader,how old was she when she became the leader,was it before jug-head.Anyways,I think that while we don't see the 3yrs he was gone he did build the Lampost and we have not seen the end of...JEREMY DAVIES.....HE HAS TO COME BACK IN PLAY AND THE JOURNAL IS IN GOOD HANDS.wE KNOW IT'S THE BASIS OF ALOT OF D.I THINKING AND only god knows what Ellle has done with it.

[Mezmo]

Check this:
Lets say that the journal is indeed the same one belonging to black rocks 1st mate, it's lost at sea and recovered 7 years later by pirates and kept by the Hanso family.
Hanso Family uses the journal to find the island as there are details in the journal on how to do so and possibly designs for the looking glass.
They use this info to start up the Dharma initiative.
Now lets look at Faradays timeline: more specifically after they get launched back to 1973 and he goes to DIHQ.
Lets suppose that during the time flashes, Faraday lost his journal and when he makes it to DIHQ, somewhere in that 3 year gap he gets access to the black rock journal that led DI to the island in the first place and realizes 'Oh hey! That's my journal!!! I thought I lost that!'
He opens the journal only to find a detailed timeline of specific events that happen on the island related to the incident that he never actually wrote in the book. Since he never wrote this he becomes convinced that you CAN change the future, hence his change in attitude upon return to the island when the O6 losties show up on island in 1977 because they aren't supposed to be in the 70's according to his newly found journal v2.0.
However, this would mean that if the journal is in a time loop that more and more information would be added to it each time it loops because once Faraday is shot down by his mother she holds onto it until he graduates and then gifts it to him as shown in the variable. So is it possible that the journal is in a time loop but that each time it loops there are more clues on how to break this loop?
I think my brain just exploded.....
any thoughts on this?

[Unbridled Pageantry]

Check this:
Lets say that the journal is indeed the same one belonging to black rocks 1st mate, it's lost at sea and recovered 7 years later by pirates and kept by the Hanso family.
Hanso Family uses the journal to find the island as there are details in the journal on how to do so and possibly designs for the looking glass.
They use this info to start up the Dharma initiative.
Now lets look at Faradays timeline: more specifically after they get launched back to 1973 and he goes to DIHQ.
Lets suppose that during the time flashes, Faraday lost his journal and when he makes it to DIHQ, somewhere in that 3 year gap he gets access to the black rock journal that led DI to the island in the first place and realizes 'Oh hey! That's my journal!!! I thought I lost that!'
He opens the journal only to find a detailed timeline of specific events that happen on the island related to the incident that he never actually wrote in the book. Since he never wrote this he becomes convinced that you CAN change the future, hence his change in attitude upon return to the island when the O6 losties show up on island in 1977 because they aren't supposed to be in the 70's according to his newly found journal v2.0.
However, this would mean that if the journal is in a time loop that more and more information would be added to it each time it loops because once Faraday is shot down by his mother she holds onto it until he graduates and then gifts it to him as shown in the variable. So is it possible that the journal is in a time loop but that each time it loops there are more clues on how to break this loop?
I think my brain just exploded.....
any thoughts on this?


Wow Mezmo, that's incredibly detailed.
You actually have me wanting this too happen.
The only question I have is how did Faraday lose his journal, and then how did it get back into the 1800's on the Black Rock.

Possibly Jacob or the AntiJacob????
What if after the meeting on the beach when wee see the Black Rock arriving AntiJacob decides to mess with Jacob's plans by affecting who is on the Black Rock. So he steals Faraday's journal and sets up everything into play, the DI, the plane crashes, and finally the death of Jacob.
I like it Mezmo.
:)

[Mezmo]

Thanks! It's actually not a well thought out theory and more of a brain fart that will more than likely end up being completely baseless and ridiculous once the actual rest of the show is revealed....but I am a die-hard Faraday fan and am hoping we see more of him in season 6...
That and I also think it would be really cool if Faraday and other familiar faces are actually the crew of the Black Rock. And with the recent ABC promo hinting at a possible return from Charlie Pace himself kind of adds weight to this theory....what if all the dead folks end up on the Black Rock somehow?
Think about that! Faraday = first mate, Charlie = someone else on the boat (using the name Dexter Stratton possibly?)
Mr. Eko could be there somewhere chained up below deck (as the Black Rock was a slave ship)
I'd like to see Boone again and since he was 'the sacrifice the island demanded' chances are if this theory is correct, he could be an important person too....
But I could go on and on about ideas of what COULD happen next season.....but my theories tend to end up being convoluted and baseless most of the time....and they always tend to end with 'wouldn't THAT be cool!?!?' LOL

[Gettingafixonlost]

Thanks! It's actually not a well thought out theory and more of a brain fart that will more than likely end up being completely baseless and ridiculous once the actual rest of the show is revealed....but I am a die-hard Faraday fan and am hoping we see more of him in season 6...
That and I also think it would be really cool if Faraday and other familiar faces are actually the crew of the Black Rock. And with the recent ABC promo hinting at a possible return from Charlie Pace himself kind of adds weight to this theory....what if all the dead folks end up on the Black Rock somehow?
Think about that! Faraday = first mate, Charlie = someone else on the boat (using the name Dexter Stratton possibly?)
Mr. Eko could be there somewhere chained up below deck (as the Black Rock was a slave ship)
I'd like to see Boone again and since he was 'the sacrifice the island demanded' chances are if this theory is correct, he could be an important person too....
But I could go on and on about ideas of what COULD happen next season.....but my theories tend to end up being convoluted and baseless most of the time....and they always tend to end with 'wouldn't THAT be cool!?!?' LOL

LOL....brain fart or not I like it!!:cool:

[Mezmo]

What about this? Richard is Captain of the Black Rock....
Lets assume for a moment (yeah...I know, I know...) that the whole thing between Jacob and Black shirt is a game that has been played many times over....there are those who support this theory so we'll use that setting as a jumping off point.
Jacob 'brings the Black Rock' to the island to start a new round of the game.....being immortal on an island with one other guy who just happens to want to kill you can probably get boring, so games help pass the time until the end of days.
And what does every good game need? How about a referee? Someone who knows the rules and is able to make judgement calls, while still sitting back and watching all the action unfold.....
So Captain Rick over there gets to the island with crew and marvel at the pretty statue on the shore.
Enter Jacob, who comes out of the statue and asks them all 'how would you like to save the world? As you no doubt have guessed, this is a very special place and I would like to play a game'
So he makes richard immortal on the condition that he remains in a ref/advisor role.
Now...given the theory above, Faraday is first mate, which leaves him in charge. So the people basicly play out their scenario and of course it all goes wrong, but Faraday figures out a way to end it all....like how about getting all the dynamite from the black rock into the volcano that is on the island (I'm almost certain that it was mentioned there was a volcano) and blow up the island to change the future.
So they somehow manage to get the dynamite together and they're off to drop it in the volcano. But someone else has a better idea:
Why not blow up the statue where that Jacob guy lives? That would fix EVERYTHING!!.....right?

So bullet points here are:
Black Rock dynamite blew up the statue and/or may have had something to do with volcano erruption on the island.
Faraday has tried to change the future before...this might explain him inexplicably being so distraught over the fake 815 being found, he knows deep down that this game will keep happening over and over and he'll be involved because he has been for a long long time....in a manner of speaking.
Richard is the ref and may have been Captain of the black rock...or at least on board when it got to the island.
Anyone wanna jump in on this and tell me that I'll have completely 'lost' my mind by the time season 6 starts airing?

[Doriandan]

i believe we are meant to consider we've lost our minds

my expectation is that the black rock is the start of what brings the 815'ers and that the descendents of the black rock play a pivitol role in the "lists" Jacob creates and how it relates to our character's fate.

your theory may true but I'm willing to believe anything at this rate!

:)

[From the future]

What about this? Richard is Captain of the Black Rock....
Lets assume for a moment (yeah...I know, I know...) that the whole thing between Jacob and Black shirt is a game that has been played many times over....there are those who support this theory so we'll use that setting as a jumping off point.
Jacob 'brings the Black Rock' to the island to start a new round of the game.....being immortal on an island with one other guy who just happens to want to kill you can probably get boring, so games help pass the time until the end of days.
And what does every good game need? How about a referee? Someone who knows the rules and is able to make judgement calls, while still sitting back and watching all the action unfold.....
So Captain Rick over there gets to the island with crew and marvel at the pretty statue on the shore.
Enter Jacob, who comes out of the statue and asks them all 'how would you like to save the world? As you no doubt have guessed, this is a very special place and I would like to play a game'
So he makes richard immortal on the condition that he remains in a ref/advisor role.
Now...given the theory above, Faraday is first mate, which leaves him in charge. So the people basicly play out their scenario and of course it all goes wrong, but Faraday figures out a way to end it all....like how about getting all the dynamite from the black rock into the volcano that is on the island (I'm almost certain that it was mentioned there was a volcano) and blow up the island to change the future.
So they somehow manage to get the dynamite together and they're off to drop it in the volcano. But someone else has a better idea:
Why not blow up the statue where that Jacob guy lives? That would fix EVERYTHING!!.....right?

So bullet points here are:
Black Rock dynamite blew up the statue and/or may have had something to do with volcano erruption on the island.
Faraday has tried to change the future before...this might explain him inexplicably being so distraught over the fake 815 being found, he knows deep down that this game will keep happening over and over and he'll be involved because he has been for a long long time....in a manner of speaking.
Richard is the ref and may have been Captain of the black rock...or at least on board when it got to the island.
Anyone wanna jump in on this and tell me that I'll have completely 'lost' my mind by the time season 6 starts airing?


You lost your mind thats not correct hate to say it lol

[faradaygeek2342]

I have to say that this is a very interesting thread. I agree with all of it except for Faraday being first mate. I just finished the constant and realised that the journal and the ship log look very similar. I believe that captain Richard agreed with Jacob but the crew started to get mutinous. The crew gathered some dynamite and took out the statue than went back to the ship to finish off the captain. But before they could, smokie came and carried the ship to the jungle, scaring the crew. Than smokie killed the crew and spared richard. Richard than buried his employer Magnus Hanso. (check http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Magnus_Hanso)

Smokie, whom i believe is beachboys pet, spared Richard because he is the reff., who is off limits.

[LissaMarie]

I happen to find this thread very interesting! I think it's silly to "poo poo" any ideas at this point and the idea that Faraday's journal is the same as the one Widmore purchased seems as plausible as anything else! Great idea guys!

[losttime]

[QUOTE=Mezmo;239713]

So bullet points here are:
.
Faraday has tried to change the future before...this might explain him inexplicably being so distraught over the fake 815 being found, he

We know why Faraday was crying when the news was on about 815. He was having some issues related to the tests he performed and we know that the girlwas all messed up and he had some problems too and didnt rememeber what happened 10 minutes ago(exaggerating about the time). Widmore said he told Faraday that he staged the whole thing because Faraday would forget he said it to begin with. SO I dont think Faraday had any clue to what was going on accept the fact that it was something traggic and he found it sad

[LincolnEcho06]

I like the dead cameo pirate ship deal. I miss the younger Losties of Charlie, Boone, Shanon, and Claire (still MIA in a cabin I guess). It would be a real Disney treat to have Johnny Depp show up on the boat, not necessarily as Jack Sparrow (or anyone from Pirates of the Caribbean).

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/pirates/images/thumb/7/77/BlackPealScreen.jpg/250px-BlackPealScreen.jpg

It's interesting to point out Richard Alpert as a referee. He does present himself and act as an advisor. We have not really seen him lie about that character role.

When first reading this thread and seeing Faraday's journal is the journal of the Black Rock's first mate, I thought no way. Like always, I'm not toatlly sure of my original thought and will force me to compare and contrast the journals.

http://www.yourprops.com/norm-4a2c8d818b143-Lost+(TV)+(2004).jpeg

I do know Daniel got his journal from his mom and kept it close to him all his life it seems. I don't know how the journal would travel through time back to the 1800s. Perhaps the Orchid Station could help do this, but it has only been seen as a doorway to the Island's teleport system to Tunisia and moving the island. How that polar bear ended up in Tunisia, is still a valid question.

The only time we see and hear of the First Mate's journal is in the auction where Widmore won that (painting too as it was hanging above his bed when Ben visits him to announce he will kill Penny).

http://humpys.net/images/s4/blackrock.jpg

I don't think there is a connection to Faraday's journal IS Black Rock journal; theory could still be possible of something was copied from Faraday journal to Black Rock Journal. This feels a bit too complicated. However, the Black Rock journal should hold the secrets of the crew and hopefully the island.

Not having season 5 on dvd by the end of the summer is really poor of ABC/Bad Robot. Watching episodes online has never been a worthwhile experience for me.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KUncSkBpLqc/SYEsbZ74zpI/AAAAAAAAAZI/NiYH1csbsrU/s320/desmond_hume3.jpg

[LissaMarie]

I like the dead cameo pirate ship deal. I miss the younger Losties of Charlie, Boone, Shanon, and Claire (still MIA in a cabin I guess). It would be a real Disney treat to have Johnny Depp show up on the boat, not necessarily as Jack Sparrow (or anyone from Pirates of the Caribbean).

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/pirates/images/thumb/7/77/BlackPealScreen.jpg/250px-BlackPealScreen.jpg

It's interesting to point out Richard Alpert as a referee. He does present himself and act as an advisor. We have not really seen him lie about that character role.

When first reading this thread and seeing Faraday's journal is the journal of the Black Rock's first mate, I thought no way. Like always, I'm not toatlly sure of my original thought and will force me to compare and contrast the journals.

http://www.yourprops.com/norm-4a2c8d818b143-Lost+(TV)+(2004).jpeg

I do know Daniel got his journal from his mom and kept it close to him all his life it seems. I don't know how the journal would travel through time back to the 1800s. Perhaps the Orchid Station could help do this, but it has only been seen as a doorway to the Island's teleport system to Tunisia and moving the island. How that polar bear ended up in Tunisia, is still a valid question.

The only time we see and hear of the First Mate's journal is in the auction where Widmore won that (painting too as it was hanging above his bed when Ben visits him to announce he will kill Penny).

http://humpys.net/images/s4/blackrock.jpg

I don't think there is a connection to Faraday's journal IS Black Rock journal; theory could still be possible of something was copied from Faraday journal to Black Rock Journal. This feels a bit too complicated. However, the Black Rock journal should hold the secrets of the crew and hopefully the island.

Not having season 5 on dvd by the end of the summer is really poor of ABC/Bad Robot. Watching episodes online has never been a worthwhile experience for me.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KUncSkBpLqc/SYEsbZ74zpI/AAAAAAAAAZI/NiYH1csbsrU/s320/desmond_hume3.jpg

Sweet, Linc! Thanks for the pics! Looks like another one bites the dust...

[Jelena]

Not having season 5 on dvd by the end of the summer is really poor of ABC/Bad Robot. Watching episodes online has never been a worthwhile experience for me.


You can download episodes from torrent (search isohunt.com). That's how I watch Lost. The A/V quality is really good.