Sayid is the most under-rated character on Lost.

[SpaceBar]

Seriously, how lost (no pun intended) would they be without Sayid? And yet no-one seems to respect him as they do Jack, Sawyer, Ben, Charlie etc.

Here's a few of his accomplishments:

1. Whilst everyone else bitched about being rescued, he actually got up and tried to make radio signals, astounded everyone with his technical know-how, and actively tried to get everyone rescued.

2. He helped the US government when he disagreed with his superior's tactics. (Whatever his reasons for doing so, he still did it.)

3. He found Rousseau's signal, thereby making it clearer that it was a strange island they were on.

4. Despite promising himself never to torture anyone again, he did it to Sawyer to find where he'd hidden Shannon's inhaler.

5. He exiled himself and attempted to map out the island. Again, looking for a means to escape.

6. He suffered through Rousseau's torture and in turn earnt her trust. Her knowledge of the island would become crucial in the future.

7. When Jin was battering Michael on the beach, did you see that tackle he pulled off?! How freakin' awesome was that?!

8. He knew from the start 'Henry Gail' was a traitor. If it wasn't for goody two shoes Jack, Ben WOULD have eventually cracked.

9. The man is awesome in a gun fight.

10. He was the first to figure Michael had been compromised in Season Two and warned Jack about the trap he was walking into. He then was one of the few who could sail a boat and set the trap with Jin and Sun.

11. Technical know-how deserves another mention. The man's a genius.

12. He was fully devoted to his wife.

13. Quite simply, the man is badass.

There are so many other instances, but far too many to list. Sure, he made some bad decisions. And there was the thing with Shannon. Though he DID forgive Ana-Lucia. That took guts.

Anyway, three cheers for Sayid!!

[tpbaxter]

Super Sayid is more like a cartoon character than a real human being.

Yeah ok, a nameless soldier in a third world army not only knows how to build a spaceship out out of tin foil and a car battery but has mastered the secrets of the ninja and can kill man with a twitch of his pinky. Too bad we don't have a former North Korean soldier in this show to give Sayid some real competition.

And don't get me started on this discussion again, but apparently the only way Sayid could be a "good guy" was if he betrayed his own country. America = good, everyone else = bad?

Add this to your list


Fake accent is lame.
Betrayed his own country.
Tricked friend into doing something terrible for personal gain. Said friend eventually killed himself.
Assassin who killed many people on behalf of untrustworthy person (Ben) without asking why.
Shot an unarmed kid.
Tortured people.

[ortrules]

4. Despite promising himself never to torture anyone again, he did it to Sawyer to find where he'd hidden Shannon's inhaler.

I'm not sure that this is an accomplishment, particularly since Sawyer was innocent and didn't actually have her inhaler.

12. He was fully devoted to his wife.

Nadia? He claimed to be devoted, sure. But when he was on 815 because he heard that Nadia was in California, it didn't take him any more than a few weeks to shack up with Shannon and profess his love for her after they crashed.

Sayid certainly did his fair share of things in the first 2 seasons, but since then he has just been somewhere in the background. And every now and then we get to play a game of "Where's Sayid?" before he randomly shows up again.

[bunnydixon]

sayid is the 'get out' man...as in how do we get out of this storyline/situation? I know lets add to sayids ever impressive resume of skills and have him do something :D

[New Age Messiah]

Super Sayid is more like a cartoon character than a real human being.


Fake accent is lame.
Betrayed his own country.
Tricked friend into doing something terrible for personal gain. Said friend eventually killed himself.
Assassin who killed many people on behalf of untrustworthy person (Ben) without asking why.
Shot an unarmed kid.
Tortured people.
Yeah. Don't forget stupid enough to be lured by a sleazy bargirl into bed. Sayid is a joke. Smokie food, I hope.

[tpbaxter]

Nadia? He claimed to be devoted, sure. But when he was on 815 because he heard that Nadia was in California, it didn't take him any more than a few weeks to shack up with Shannon and profess his love for her after they crashed.

Muslims are allowed to have more than one wife by the way, which is another problem with Sayid. His romance with Nadia seems to conform to western notions of romance. There are other things about his character that don't really match his culture.

Overall I think his character is poorly thought out and poorly played. His being from Iraq is really just a way to explain the ridiculous things he does.

Here's my question: What if you found out there was a Russian TV show and it had an American character who is a good guy, but only because he joined the Russians by giving them secret info about the US. The American guy is crazy and keeps killing people. We see stories of him in his past as an American soldier killing good people. He can't help himself because he's just a crazy american who kills people. That's how Americans are. Fortunately he's on the Russians side now and kills people for them instead of the evil Americans, which is great because none of the good Russian people would ever do such a thing, so he is helpful. What would you think of all that?

[bunnydixon]

sayid is a muslim???!! can't be an active one then...

[tpbaxter]

sayid is a muslim???!! can't be an active one then...

Exactly.

Yeah I remember one scene where Sayid was praying on a boat but that's about it.

So how does an Iraqi soldier who has apparently achieved status high enogh to learn ninja MacGyver skills not a muslim? If Sayid was more like a real Iraqi soldier instead of an American/Englishman pretending to be Iraqi would you still be giving him three cheers?

[bunnydixon]

Exactly.

Yeah I remember one scene where Sayid was praying on a boat but that's about it.

So how does an Iraqi soldier who has apparently achieved status high enogh to learn ninja MacGyver skills not a muslim? If Sayid was more like a real Iraqi soldier instead of an American/Englishman pretending to be Iraqi would you still be giving him three cheers?

theres an interesting wee bit on lostpedia about him being muslim - intentional characterisations or shoddy research? ;)

[JohnQ]

Out of all the people Sayid has killed, Ilana gets him for the dude on the golf course?

[Don'tWantLostToEndAtS6!!]

Sayid get things done.

[SpaceBar]

Exactly.

Man, I don't get the hate AT ALL.

Lemme guess: You guys also don't like Michael, right? Cos HE IS AWESOME TOO.

*flees and never comes back*

[ortrules]

sayid is the 'get out' man...as in how do we get out of this storyline/situation? I know lets add to sayids ever impressive resume of skills and have him do something :D

Yes. My favorite Sayid moment was when he shot young Ben, ran away, and then randomly popped back up just when Jack needed help with the bomb - which, by the way, is apparently Sayids specialty. How convenient that that worked out so well.

Here's my question: What if you found out there was a Russian TV show and it had an American character who is a good guy, but only because he joined the Russians by giving them secret info about the US. The American guy is crazy and keeps killing people. We see stories of him in his past as an American soldier killing good people. He can't help himself because he's just a crazy american who kills people. That's how Americans are. Fortunately he's on the Russians side now and kills people for them instead of the evil Americans, which is great because none of the good Russian people would ever do such a thing, so he is helpful. What would you think of all that?

I would definitely watch this show.

[bunnydixon]

Yes. My favorite Sayid moment was when he shot young Ben, ran away, and then randomly popped back up just when Jack needed help with the bomb - which, by the way, is apparently Sayids specialty. How convenient that that worked out so well.



I would definitely watch this show.

depends on the title.

[JohnQ]

If Sayid is so cool, why can't he just heal his own bullet in the gut wound? :confused:

[Don'tWantLostToEndAtS6!!]

Exactly.

Man, I don't get the hate AT ALL.

Lemme guess: You guys also don't like Michael, right? Cos HE IS AWESOME TOO.

*flees and never comes back*
LOL you better find some real good cover! :p

[bunnydixon]

If Sayid is so cool, why can't he just heal his own bullet in the gut wound? :confused:

YEAH!! I demand answers!!

[tpbaxter]

Yeah. Don't forget stupid enough to be lured by a sleazy bargirl into bed. Sayid is a joke. Smokie food, I hope.

You are a joke. Didn't Sayid pursue and seduce Shannon? Not the other way around?

theres an interesting wee bit on lostpedia about him being muslim - intentional characterisations or shoddy research? ;)

Sayid's Lostpedia page is kind of funny. They had to make a table to list all of his skills.

Unfortunately I think some of his faults as a character are intentional. I think they wanted to be controversial originally which is why they put an Iraqi there during the height of the second Iraqi war. Shannon was also supposed to be some Paris Hilton type. It would have been cool but they never really followed through with those thoughts, IMO.

Exactly.

Man, I don't get the hate AT ALL.

Lemme guess: You guys also don't like Michael, right? Cos HE IS AWESOME TOO.

*flees and never comes back*

what does Michael have to do with anything?

If Sayid is so cool, why can't he just heal his own bullet in the gut wound? :confused:

I don't know but it is still impressive nonetheless that he has been able to survive for so long after such a thing happened to him (remember Neda?) nevermind be able to dismantle bombs all the while.


woo. think I replied to all of them...

[JohnQ]

I seriously think Sayid's days are numbered. He's got a bleeding gut, and Ben will
surely seek revenge for shooting the young Ben...

[ortrules]

You are a joke. Didn't Sayid pursue and seduce Shannon? Not the other way around?

I think NAM was referring to Ilana as the sleazy bargirl.

[tpbaxter]

I seriously think Sayid's days are numbered. He's got a bleeding gut, and Ben will
surely seek revenge for shooting the young Ben...

I agree and good riddance I say personally. :)

I don't think Ben remembers what happened to him as a child and if he did, he as apparently gotten over it. But the bleeding gut thing might do him in. That usually does it. If not perhaps tampering with a nuclear weapon while bleeding profusely from the stomach may get him. That's my theory but I'm no doctor so...

[bunnydixon]

guess he isnt that awesome after all!

[ortrules]

I don't think Ben remembers what happened to him as a child and if he did, he as apparently gotten over it. But the bleeding gut thing might do him in. That usually does it. If not perhaps tampering with a nuclear weapon while bleeding profusely from the stomach may get him. That's my theory but I'm no doctor so...

Well if you're no doctor, then what do you know? Clearly I think this is a sign that Sayid's blood has been transfused with radioactive chemicals from the nuclear explosion, which subsequently healed him, created a clone, made him time travel, and then turned him into a Hulk-like creature.

[JohnQ]

guess he isnt that awesome after all!

Sayid started out as a torturer/assassin. He still is. With an English accent
sometimes :rolleyes:

[bunnydixon]

Sayid started out as a torturer/assassin. He still is. With an English accent
sometimes :rolleyes:

hahaha - his real accent is not easy on the ears lol!!

you sound like you're from landaaaahn :p

[Pung]

I think Sayid made the 2nd biggest mistake in the whole show by shooting Ben (Jacks being the first by taking the bomb to the Swan worksite to cause the incident, even when they full well knew there was an incident and he caused the damn thing anyways! Sorry, back to Sayid...)

Sayid thought he was so frickin cool when he told Kate 7 Jack that he had shot little Ben. "I don't know if you've heard, but I've already changed things...". (*just saying this to make TP proud*) I wanted to punch Sayid in the face! when he said that. WHH sayid! Congratulations, you created a monster.

[boutte]

You are a joke. Didn't Sayid pursue and seduce Shannon? Not the other way around?



Sayid's Lostpedia page is kind of funny. They had to make a table to list all of his skills.

Unfortunately I think some of his faults as a character are intentional. I think they wanted to be controversial originally which is why they put an Iraqi there during the height of the second Iraqi war. Shannon was also supposed to be some Paris Hilton type. It would have been cool but they never really followed through with those thoughts, IMO.



what does Michael have to do with anything?


I don't know but it is still impressive nonetheless that he has been able to survive for so long after such a thing happened to him (remember Neda?) nevermind be able to dismantle bombs all the while.


woo. think I replied to all of them...
Michael is the other guy who knows how to do absolutely anything. (Except make a dog whistle)
I think Sayid made the 2nd biggest mistake in the whole show by shooting Ben (Jacks being the first by taking the bomb to the Swan worksite to cause the incident, even when they full well knew there was an incident and he caused the damn thing anyways! Sorry, back to Sayid...)

Sayid thought he was so frickin cool when he told Kate 7 Jack that he had shot little Ben. "I don't know if you've heard, but I've already changed things...". (*just saying this to make TP proud*) I wanted to punch Sayid in the face! when he said that. WHH sayid! Congratulations, you created a monster.

At least Sayid tries. And I always thought that if they had picked him to be the leader instead of Jack they would have been a lot better off. He's the smartest guy on the show. (Well, next to Ben.)

[Here'sLOCKEing at you,Kid]

wow, this is really the let's pick on Sayid thread, isn't it....

Sayid was tormented by his past, wanted nothing more than to change, and he was always there for all the losties, risking his own life on their behalf.
There is no better man than he who lays down his life for his friends.

[Pung]

At least Sayid tries. And I always thought that if they had picked him to be the leader instead of Jack they would have been a lot better off. He's the smartest guy on the show. (Well, next to Ben.)

Hey Boutte, I like Sayid. He in no way is even close to being one of my least favorite characters. I was just so frustrated when he was having that conversation with jack & kate. He thought he was changing the past when he was creating it and acted so smug.

But I guess to question the name of the thread, who says Sayid is underated?
I guess I dont see a need to glorify or crusify him. he is who he is.

[bunnydixon]

i think part of his character is that he doesnt want to be in a leadership role.

[Here'sLOCKEing at you,Kid]

i think part of his character is that he doesnt want to be in a leadership role.

He makes a very excellent advisor, though, eh?

[bunnydixon]

He makes a very excellent advisor, though, eh?

the irony is that he very often takes charge lol!!

[tpbaxter]

I think Sayid made the 2nd biggest mistake in the whole show by shooting Ben (Jacks being the first by taking the bomb to the Swan worksite to cause the incident, even when they full well knew there was an incident and he caused the damn thing anyways! Sorry, back to Sayid...)

Sayid thought he was so frickin cool when he told Kate 7 Jack that he had shot little Ben. "I don't know if you've heard, but I've already changed things...". (*just saying this to make TP proud*) I wanted to punch Sayid in the face! when he said that. WHH sayid! Congratulations, you created a monster.

thank you. but the next line he says after that is hilarious. Kate says Sayid didn't save Ben because she saved him. Sayid glances over at Jack who nods and then Sayid deadpans to Kate and says "Why did you do that?" There should have been a laugh track playing right after that!

[chester]

That kind of material don't need no laugh track to make it funny.

[JohnQ]

WWSD. What Would Sayid Do. Bracelets now available at all on line ABC stores. ;)

[Don'tWantLostToEndAtS6!!]

Michael is the other guy who knows how to do absolutely anything. (Except make a dog whistle)
Agreed.

At least Sayid tries. And I always thought that if they had picked him to be the leader instead of Jack they would have been a lot better off. He's the smartest guy on the show. (Well, next to Ben.)
Agreed.

wow, this is really the let's pick on Sayid thread, isn't it....

Sayid was tormented by his past, wanted nothing more than to change, and he was always there for all the losties, risking his own life on their behalf.
There is no better man than he who lays down his life for his friends.
Agreed!

Wow, saved a lot of time by just typing agreed since that was exactly what I wanted to say!! :)

[Don'tWantLostToEndAtS6!!]

I think Sayid made the 2nd biggest mistake in the whole show by shooting Ben (Jacks being the first by taking the bomb to the Swan worksite to cause the incident, even when they full well knew there was an incident and he caused the damn thing anyways! Sorry, back to Sayid...)

Sayid thought he was so frickin cool when he told Kate 7 Jack that he had shot little Ben. "I don't know if you've heard, but I've already changed things...". (*just saying this to make TP proud*) I wanted to punch Sayid in the face! when he said that. WHH sayid! Congratulations, you created a monster.

It was not right for Sayid to shoot Ben, but Jack, in the other hand, was as bad as Sayid. If he would just help Juliet at the surgery room, then Kate might not have taken Ben to the others thus changing Ben 4ever. I think they made Ben who is he together.

[Here'sLOCKEing at you,Kid]

It was not right for Sayid to shoot Ben, but Jack, in the other hand, was as bad as Sayid. If he would just help Juliet at the surgery room, then Kate might not have taken Ben to the others thus changing Ben 4ever. I think they made Ben who is he together.

you got a point there!

[boutte]

you got a point there!

maybe Faraday was right the first time after all. WHH?

[boutte]

They all ignored Myles when he said they were just repeating the same mistake.

[tpbaxter]

It was not right for Sayid to shoot Ben, but Jack, in the other hand, was as bad as Sayid. If he would just help Juliet at the surgery room, then Kate might not have taken Ben to the others thus changing Ben 4ever. I think they made Ben who is he together.

The thing is, Jack & Sayid were right. It was crazy Kate & Juliet who made the future suck for everyone.

Well about Ben anyway. But stupid Jack & Sayid were wrong about blowing up the H-Bomb.

Michael was very capable by the way. He built a boat, some sort of plumbing system, was a gifted artist, and knew how to sabotage the freighter. Actually his skill set was almost as ridiculous as Sayid's. Maybe that was why he was brought into the conversation?

Michael had a more realistic story however and more closely resembled an actual human being. I actually liked Walt and Michael in the first season. Having a kid around added some normalcy to the show. I thought the guy who played Michael was a good actor too.

[New Age Messiah]

I think NAM was referring to Ilana as the sleazy bargirl.That's correct. Thanks. I didn't know what Bax was talking about with Shannon. I was ready to rough him up.

She (Illana) got him the same way Ben did.

Sayid should have known somebody might try to use a seductress to catch him. For having such a James Bond wherewithall, he's an IDIOT. That's why the character Sayid is a joke.

[Doriandan]

Seriously, how lost (no pun intended) would they be without Sayid? And yet no-one seems to respect him as they do Jack, Sawyer, Ben, Charlie etc.

Here's a few of his accomplishments:

1. Whilst everyone else bitched about being rescued, he actually got up and tried to make radio signals, astounded everyone with his technical know-how, and actively tried to get everyone rescued.

2. He helped the US government when he disagreed with his superior's tactics. (Whatever his reasons for doing so, he still did it.)

3. He found Rousseau's signal, thereby making it clearer that it was a strange island they were on.

4. Despite promising himself never to torture anyone again, he did it to Sawyer to find where he'd hidden Shannon's inhaler.

5. He exiled himself and attempted to map out the island. Again, looking for a means to escape.

6. He suffered through Rousseau's torture and in turn earnt her trust. Her knowledge of the island would become crucial in the future.

7. When Jin was battering Michael on the beach, did you see that tackle he pulled off?! How freakin' awesome was that?!

8. He knew from the start 'Henry Gail' was a traitor. If it wasn't for goody two shoes Jack, Ben WOULD have eventually cracked.

9. The man is awesome in a gun fight.

10. He was the first to figure Michael had been compromised in Season Two and warned Jack about the trap he was walking into. He then was one of the few who could sail a boat and set the trap with Jin and Sun.

11. Technical know-how deserves another mention. The man's a genius.

12. He was fully devoted to his wife.

13. Quite simply, the man is badass.

There are so many other instances, but far too many to list. Sure, he made some bad decisions. And there was the thing with Shannon. Though he DID forgive Ana-Lucia. That took guts.

Anyway, three cheers for Sayid!!

and he fixed the computer in a climactic fashion during the debut of the hatch!

yea seriously, Sayid rocks

The long hair off the island is pimp too

[tpbaxter]

That's correct. Thanks. I didn't know what Bax was talking about with Shannon. I was ready to rough him up.

She (Illana) got him the same way Ben did.

Sayid should have known somebody might try to use a seductress to catch him. For having such a James Bond wherewithall, he's an IDIOT. That's why the character Sayid is a joke.

oh right Ilana. my bad.

[Jelena]

Actually his skill set was almost as ridiculous as Sayid's. Maybe that was why he was brought into the conversation?


Well then, you guys then have very little skills, don't work on improving them and don't know people who are capable of adapting and quickly acquiring new skills. I know at least two: my husband and my father. Seriously though, one's an architect and another one is an engineer of physics. There's no thing that they can't fix or make. So you can mock Sayid and Michael all you want, but some people just ARE like that. :p

P.S. Sayid rules... AND he's sexy! :D

[Don'tWantLostToEndAtS6!!]

The thing is, Jack & Sayid were right. It was crazy Kate & Juliet who made the future suck for everyone.

Well about Ben anyway. But stupid Jack & Sayid were wrong about blowing up the H-Bomb.

Michael was very capable by the way. He built a boat, some sort of plumbing system, was a gifted artist, and knew how to sabotage the freighter. Actually his skill set was almost as ridiculous as Sayid's. Maybe that was why he was brought into the conversation?

Michael had a more realistic story however and more closely resembled an actual human being. I actually liked Walt and Michael in the first season. Having a kid around added some normalcy to the show. I thought the guy who played Michael was a good actor too.

That's why I think that they made Ben who he is together. I mean, Ben's father should take the biggest blame but w/o the Losties, he might not had became who he is.

Re Michael: the only part when I didn't really like him was when he shot Ana Lucia & Libby then tricked Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Hugo to the others. I mean, they were willing to risk their lives for Walt and that's what they got? But then if I put myself into his shoes then I don't know what I could do neither..... so I actually kinda liked to see how Michael end up being on the freighter and redeemed himself... what he did was more like him. Ah I think I'm off the subject a little.

I enjoy almost all of the characters on Lost, one of the main thing is that there are good and bad in each and all of their characteristics (except for that Keamy guy... i think he's just pure cruel).

[tpbaxter]

Well then, you guys then have very little skills, don't work on improving them and don't know people who are capable of adapting and quickly acquiring new skills. I know at least two: my husband and my father. Seriously though, one's an architect and another one is an engineer of physics. There's no thing that they can't fix or make. So you can mock Sayid and Michael all you want, but some people just ARE like that. :p

P.S. Sayid rules... AND he's sexy! :D

yeah except Sayid was neither an engineer nor a physicist but rather a faceless soldier of a third world army. And Michael was an out of work artist who did construction gigs to pay the bills.

Come to think of it, even Jack's medical skills are questionable because some of the things he does seems a bit unrealistic to me. But at least it makes sense in the context of his character.

Anyway, I don't care what people say here I still feel disappointment about Sayid's character. They could have made anyone else Kung Fu MacGyver. Sayid's character was more important IMO as was his relationship with Sawyer because at first it meant a clash between conservative southern George Bush American culture and the Middle Eastern culture. A lot of people say that a lot of the problems between the West and the Middle East are cultural and stems back as far as the Crusades. Lost came out at the height of the Iraq war, but all we got out of that was a quick skirmish. It just shows how disinterested the writers were in exploring this topic and if that's the case, why introduce this character at all?

Come to think of it, we also got the torture incident which makes me think. If Sawyer = America and Sayid = Iraq then notice that Sawyer was cast as the innocent coy cute one and Sayid was the evil heartless aggressor. interesting... if I recall it was Americans torturing Iraqis that got us in trouble, not the other way around? I feel like I've ranted about this too many times now. eh...

[Jelena]

yeah except Sayid was neither an engineer nor a physicist but rather a faceless soldier of a third world army. And Michael was an out of work artist who did construction gigs to pay the bills.

Come to think of it, even Jack's medical skills are questionable because some of the things he does seems a bit unrealistic to me. But at least it makes sense in the context of his character.

Anyway, I don't care what people say here I still feel disappointment about Sayid's character. They could have made anyone else Kung Fu MacGyver. Sayid's character was more important IMO as was his relationship with Sawyer because at first it meant a clash between conservative southern George Bush American culture and the Middle Eastern culture. A lot of people say that a lot of the problems between the West and the Middle East are cultural and stems back as far as the Crusades. Lost came out at the height of the Iraq war, but all we got out of that was a quick skirmish. It just shows how disinterested the writers were in exploring this topic and if that's the case, why introduce this character at all?

Come to think of it, we also got the torture incident which makes me think. If Sawyer = America and Sayid = Iraq then notice that Sawyer was cast as the innocent coy cute one and Sayid was the evil heartless aggressor. interesting... if I recall it was Americans torturing Iraqis that got us in trouble, not the other way around? I feel like I've ranted about this too many times now. eh...

Baxter, you're jumping into your own mouth (a Serbian expression that I don't know whether it exists in English) on this thread.

1) "Third world army" doesn't necessarily mean incompetent. It's you who's belittling Iraqis, not the show. I was never on the side of the U.S. in this matter, and I've felt from the beginning of Lost that they were able to escape stereotypes with Sayid's character. I don't see him as belonging to any side anymore, but himself.
2) It doesn't matter what one does for a living: my husband was always like this, even before he became an architect, even as a child.
3) Sayid was not portrayed as the aggressor, Sawyer was. Sawyer was so small compared to Sayid's rich character who is always able to deal/accept his mistakes. Sawyer, on the other hand, is not - he turns his guilt into anger. Psychologically speaking, Sayid is a much more developed/mature person.

P.S. By the way, didn't we conclude that you're NOT a doctor?

[tpbaxter]

Baxter, you're jumping into your own mouth (a Serbian expression that I don't know whether it exists in English) on this thread.

1) "Third world army" doesn't necessarily mean incompetent. It's you who's belittling Iraqis, not the show. I was never on the side of the U.S. in this matter, and I've felt from the beginning of Lost that they were able to escape stereotypes with Sayid's character. I don't see him as belonging to any side anymore, but himself.
2) It doesn't matter what one does for a living: my husband was always like this, even before he became an architect, even as a child.
3) Sayid was not portrayed as the aggressor, Sawyer was. Sawyer was so small compared to Sayid's rich character who is always able to deal/accept his mistakes. Sawyer, on the other hand, is not - he turns his guilt into anger. Psychologically speaking, Sayid is a much more developed/mature person.

P.S. By the way, didn't we conclude that you're NOT a doctor?

Yes I'm no doctor. :confused:

I don't think it belittling to say Sayid was from a Third World country or to disbelief that such a person would have the fantastical skillset that Sayid has. It is being realistic, I think.

"Third World" is in fact what Iraq was. There were western democratic countries, Soviet and Soviet Satellite countries, and then there was everyone else; the so-called "Third World". That's exactly what Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan were. Impoverished countries caught in the middle. Realistically it would be very difficult for someone like Sayid to emerge from a situation like the one he was in, and if he did, he would most likely not come without his share of baggage.

How you interpret the Torture Story depends on your perspective I guess. To me, it seems like Sawyer was innocent. He was lying about not lying (which means he wasn't lying after all) and in the end all he wanted was a kiss. How cute. His role was very Christ-like. Christ would not take back his claims of being the Son of God and was tortured for it. Which makes Sayid "the Torturer" Jarrah, um.. the other guys.

The way things played out it in real life it was Sayid = America and Sawyer = Iraq. Maybe that's what the story was trying to show? Make us show how it feels? Make the current situation more relate-able? I don't know. I'm tired. It's way past my bed time again.

[tpbaxter]

sorry just re-reading your comments Jelena and still thinking about it again. I may be rambling and incoherent now. I did say I was tired, right?

Anyway, you may be right about escaping stereotypes, but I feel like this is different. It's might be a stereotype to say that all Iraqis are a certain way. But they do have their own cultures and history and to just ignore that is not breaking stereotypes, it's um.. I don't know what it is but it doesn't seem good. If you just watch TV and Sayid is the only middle eastern person you have to reference, then you may be surprised when you meet a real one. Like when they will mysteriously not participate in you Pork BBQ ribs cookout or when they start fasting for a month or when he takes offense to your skimpy outfit.

About the Iraqi army: I am sure they have very intelligent and capable people there, but remember when this show first came out. The US was saying they had this storage of weapons that they didn't have. Over inflating the Iraqi army's potential seems like something to be cautious of, and to me it seems reasonable for one to argue that giving Sayid such super powers was just playing right into American's worst fears.

eh, i need sleep.

[Jelena]

Yes I'm no doctor. :confused:

I don't think it belittling to say Sayid was from a Third World country or to disbelief that such a person would have the fantastical skillset that Sayid has. It is being realistic, I think.

"Third World" is in fact what Iraq was. There were western democratic countries, Soviet and Soviet Satellite countries, and then there was everyone else; the so-called "Third World". That's exactly what Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan were. Impoverished countries caught in the middle. Realistically it would be very difficult for someone like Sayid to emerge from a situation like the one he was in, and if he did, he would most likely not come without his share of baggage.

How you interpret the Torture Story depends on your perspective I guess. To me, it seems like Sawyer was innocent. He was lying about not lying (which means he wasn't lying after all) and in the end all he wanted was a kiss. How cute. His role was very Christ-like. Christ would not take back his claims of being the Son of God and was tortured for it. Which makes Sayid "the Torturer" Jarrah, um.. the other guys.

The way things played out it in real life it was Sayid = America and Sawyer = Iraq. Maybe that's what the story was trying to show? Make us show how it feels? Make the current situation more relate-able? I don't know. I'm tired. It's way past my bed time again.

In your previous post you wrote that Sayid was "a faceless soldier of a third world army". This sounds like you're putting down third world army, no? If not, then what does this comment even mean.

And if you're not a doctor, how can you say that what Jack does doesn't make sense to you? :p

Yes, I can see you're tired, cause you're NOT fun anymore.

And have you forgotten what I was lecturing you about "Independence movement"? So NOT everybody was a part of the Third World if they weren't with U.S. or Soviet Union.

Geez baxter, go get your beauty sleep and come back when your old, amusing, "wanting to punch people in the face" persona returns!:rolleyes::D

[chester]

He wasn't just a soldier of the regular Iraqi army, he was an officer in the republican guard, wasn't he. As far as I am aware, there is a big difference. Plus the only Macguyver type stuff I can remember him doing is electronics/comms stuff, which was his spefic job, wasn't it? I don't see it as that unrealistic. Especially for a TV show.

[Jelena]

He wasn't just a soldier of the regular Iraqi army, he was an officer in the republican guard, wasn't he. As far as I am aware, there is a big difference. Plus the only Macguyver type stuff I can remember him doing is electronics/comms stuff, which was his spefic job, wasn't it? I don't see it as that unrealistic. Especially for a TV show.

Thank you chester... for being so clever. :)

Now, baxter, NOT all Muslims are the same. There are a few different approaches to practicing Islam, each one different the next, just like in Christianity.

I agree that Sayid should not be regarded as the rep for Middle East, but those who think that he is are just small minded people. No one person should ever be a point of reference for the entire nation. At least they put someone like that on the show, cause his character does break the stereotype, IMO at least.

[tpbaxter]

I don't think I could continue this debate no matter how much energy I had because I feel I will just start repeating myself.

But I think there are two separate things that I'm whining about. Unrealistic and Unfair.

Everything about Sayid is unrealistic but a lot of stuff in Lost is. Sayid's skill set is comical. Lostpedia has a list of it. He did the transceiver thingy, he made a radar for Michael's boat, didn't he make a radio for Hurley to listen to music?, he repaired Desmond's smashed PC, he dismantled and then repaired and modified a nuclear weapon (while bleeding from stomach after being shot in the gut) plus I don't think the Republican Guard taught their soldiers jujitsu.

Third World sounds like a derogatory or pejorative term but that's the word they used, right? I think now they call it "developing nation" right. I think third world also has a poor connotation. And yes, back in the day, if you weren't with the US or the Soviets than technically, that's what you probably were. The things Sayid is able to do is unrealistic even if he was from Mars, but that he is supposed to be from a poverty stricken war torn country makes it all the more unrealistic, I think, and that's all I was trying to say.

As far as unfair I was arguing that the show had ulterior motives for making an Iraqi seem as efficient as they did. And I don't like how they completely disregarded his culture or failed to explore the cultural issues that they seemed originally trying to exploit. As it stands Sayid is no more Iraqi then he is French and it would probably be better if he did not pretend to be either as it is just misleading to an already ignorant and self-involved audience (Americans).

The unfair part is mostly what bothers me. Tomorrow I will think of a more hilarious way to complain about it.

[Jelena]

Third World sounds like a derogatory or pejorative term but that's the word they used, right? I think now they call it "developing nation" right. I think third world also has a poor connotation. And yes, back in the day, if you weren't with the US or the Soviets than technically, that's what you probably were.

As far as unfair I was arguing that the show had ulterior motives for making an Iraqi seem as efficient as they did. And I don't like how they completely disregarded his culture or failed to explore the cultural issues that they seemed originally trying to exploit. As it stands Sayid is no more Iraqi then he is French and it would probably be better if he did not pretend to be either as it is just misleading to an already ignorant and self-involved audience (Americans).



"Third World" and "Non-Aligned Movement" are not the same. The latter depicts political orientation.
Third World is called "underdeveloped" now, I think. Second world is "developed", at least that's how I remember it from Uni. I could be wrong, like people who thought Wayne was Kate's stepfather.

[Don'tWantLostToEndAtS6!!]

"Third World" and "Non-Aligned Movement" are not the same. The latter depicts political orientation.
Third World is called "underdeveloped" now, I think. Second world is "developed", at least that's how I remember it from Uni. I could be wrong, like people who thought Wayne was Kate's stepfather.
Were you talking about me? :cool:

[Jelena]

Were you talking about me? :cool:

You, LissaMarie, myself, and whole bunch of other people as well. ;)

[SpaceBar]

Interesting. Not as much Sayid hate as I thought. Bottom line is Sayid was a soldier, hence the gun skills and fighting, and an electronics technician or whatever his official title was.

Taking this into account his accomplishments aren't THAT unrealistic. Don't forget Sayid was probably trained as a soldier from a very young age. This is guess work, but I think a lot of Iraqi children are trained as soldiers?

Anyway glad to see there are some here who like Sayid. :)

Also I actually think Ben remembers Sayid shooting him. Meeting Sayid as a kid was certainly a turning point for Ben. I think it started off his love affair with the 'hostiles' and turned him on his own people.
Yes, Sayid thought he was helping when he shot Ben, but this shows he is will do absolutely anything to prevent evil. (Kinda)

Maybe Ben remembers this and this is why he recruited Sayid to do all his dirty work.

[ortrules]

Maybe Ben remembers this and this is why he recruited Sayid to do all his dirty work.

Absolutely. I think the whole reason Ben "teamed" up with Sayid in the first place was because Ben knew Sayid would go back in time and shoot him as a child. As a result, Ben had to make sure he puts Sayid in a position where he'd be willing to shoot a child - much like Eloise had to push Dan into science to make sure certain events happened.

[Dead but Here]

How you interpret the Torture Story depends on your perspective I guess. To me, it seems like Sawyer was innocent. He was lying about not lying (which means he wasn't lying after all) and in the end all he wanted was a kiss. How cute. His role was very Christ-like. Christ would not take back his claims of being the Son of God and was tortured for it. Which makes Sayid "the Torturer" Jarrah, um.. the other guys.


I interpret the torture story more on a personal level. Jack, the hard charging 'hero' is determined that he's going to fix things. He doesn't think about consequences of what he does, once his mind is made up, that's the only way, and doesn't feel guilty for it later.

Sayid doesn't like it, but he does what he feels has to be done, even though it tears him up. He's very practical about things that way.

Sawyer keeps people at a distance by letting them judge him for things that aren't true so they never get to the things that are. When he was told it didn't have to be that way and he said "Yes it did." he meant it wouldn't have mattered what he told them. He could have said a hundred times he didn't have her medicine and they still would have thought he did and still would have tortured him. He just got to keep some of his dignity by defying them. He asked for Kate because she was the only one that would believe him. Without her the torture would have just kept going.

I'm married to an electronics tech. The things Sayid does with electronics are not very realistic because he has no equipment, no schematics, and no spare parts. But.... some of the medical stuff is hokey too. They're TV people. They can't be bothered with pesky reality. Like when Jack took off across the jungle right after surgery. My son, who had recently had his appendix out with laproscopic surgery said "No way.... he wouldn't be able to move from the pain, even if he had drugs. Especially not with the old style big incision." Sometimes you have to just shrug and say "It was in the script."

As for Sayid's other skills.... He wasn't just a soldier. He was taught to torture people. He didn't come from a superpower nation, but it's not like they're over there rubbing sticks together to make fire or something. They might not have had nukes or anything, but they had tanks, fighter jets, computers etc. I have no idea what the Iraqi republican guard was taught as far as hand to hand combat, but I know plenty of American military types who know all sorts of fighting from natural brawling ability to high level martial arts that they learned on their own time.

I think they made him Iraqi special forces so we could more quickly get to consider the man more than the stereotype. It's something we really don't know much about. If he were a Navy Seal, we would expect certain things from him and might interpret his unhappiness with his torture skills to be either a condemnation of the war, which damages young men, of the military in general for creating monsters who torture people, of the former administration's policies or as a weakness.... a lack of resolve and patriotism. It seems sort of odd, but making him Iraqi in a lot of ways avoids making a political statement.

[SpaceBar]

Agreed. (message extended to exceed ten characters, lol)

[chester]

Maybe Sayid is being recruited for the secret Oder of the Hashishins...

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id985/pg1/index.html

[SpaceBar]

Sayid....is awesome. If y'all want to start picking holes in every character, there's plenty of pathetic traits to point out for everyone else. So here I go: although I dislike very few characters in Lost I'm going to point out all their flaws. (please take this with a pinch of salt)

Jack.

1. Now that our Losties have been a little more civilised in the last couple of seasons and he's figured out he can't boss everyone around and isn't needed quite as much, Jack has become very stubborn.

2. On every emotional scene, it's the same face. The almost-crying, 'gimme my toy's back!' look.

Kate.

1. Ok, since we found out SHE was the fugitive on...uh, the second ever episode, what exactly has she done since then? She's just been another face that tags along, specifically when she's not wanted.

2. Almost EVERY scene, she is wet. Either crying over some crap, standing in the pouring rain, just getting out of the shower/bath, or having a mud fight with Juliet. Please tell me I'm not the only one who's noticed this!

Charlie. (Yes, Charlie)

1. "Oh check it out! Everyone's gone off to get help and do something constructive. I may just sit here, sing songs and take a hit of heroin!"

2. His best scene was getting punched in the face by Locke.

Sun and Jin.

1. Producers: "Crap, we need a bit of culture here! I got it! Let's have a Korean couple whose marriage is on the rocks.”

2. When Sun first starts speaking English, it’s a seriously stilted accent, and now that we’ve forgotten that she didn’t want people to know, she speaks it better than everyone else on the island.

<to be continued>