If Juliet killed one of her own, shouldn't she be "judged?"

[hyperchord24]

I'm refering to when she killed an Other while Sawyer and Kate escaped on the outrigger while Jack was fixing up Ben. I don't remember the episode or the Other that was killed. Instead of that whole sherif and "town meeting" and marking, shouldn't she have been sent to the Smoke Monster to be judged? That is, if what Ben told fake Locke after he woke up is true. I guess the point of this topic wasn't to make light of a potential plothole or the writer's lack of forward thinking, but more to the validity of what Ben said to fake Locke. This was before he saw his dead daughter so it's within the realm of possibilities that he was lying about the Smoke Monster being a "judge." That begs the question though, if Ben wasn't lying, what prompted Ben to come back to the island to be judged?

[LincolnEcho06]

She went to court and got branded with that crummy hydra logo.
She was going to be put to death, but Jack convinced Ben that she was needed or threatened not to fix Ben's surgery infection. Ben would have died had Jack not done this, as well as Juliet.

[hyperchord24]

Dude, I know what happened. I'm basically asking what are the particular things the Others go to Smokie to be judged.

[chester]

Nah, they kill each other all the time. e.g. Klugh, young Whidmore's mate, etc.

[notsolost42]

Dude, I know what happened. I'm basically asking what are the particular things the Others go to Smokie to be judged.

As far as the Others are concerned, perhaps smokie judges the leaders only. Juliet was not a leader so she went to Others court for her punishment. As for smokie judging other folks on the island, well, that may all depend on just exactly what smokie is.....but, Eko DID kill two Others the first night after the crash. Just saying, and being he was not an Other, nor on any lists, perhaps smokie can judge him for that crime. As for Bea Klugh, Mikhail wasn't around long enough to be judged by smokie....remember, smokie doesn't seem to like the water.....

[LoSTgOShBgOSh]

The glove did not fit!!!!!!!!!!

[LoSTgOShBgOSh]

Dude, I know what happened. I'm basically asking what are the particular things the Others go to Smokie to be judged.
Carpool violation? Dometic diturbence? no, no , i got it Identitey fraud! Get it ?

[SpaceBar]

Who was that woman with blonde hair who was gonna judge Juliet? She went to the temple, aye?

[Unbridled Pageantry]

Who was that woman with blonde hair who was gonna judge Juliet? She went to the temple, aye?

The writers said that she's been killed off; although when I don't know. Lostpedia says it could have been during the raid on the survivors camp at the end of season 3.

Which makes perfect sense, because when I go out raiding camping villages I always bring a branding iron wielding, old lady with a questionable hip.

That's something that's always bugged me, how that lady was just forgotten about. Then we get told she's dead, but have no idea how.

[losttime]

remember, smokie doesn't seem to like the water.....

Hey Notso. I still really dont buy the whole not liking water thing. I mean after Ben flushed the "proverbial toilet" to let Smokie know he was going to be outside, why didnt Smokie just come up right through the "drain" than? I just dont think Smokie is bound by water as much as he is bound by the lair in which we saw him when "judging" Ben. Thats why it couldnt go over the sonic fence when attacking Juliet or getting into the camp at all for that matter while the fence was on. For all we know, Smokie has made appearances as apparitions off the Island and also appeared on the Hydra Island as well.

[notsolost42]

Hey Notso. I still really dont buy the whole not liking water thing. I mean after Ben flushed the "proverbial toilet" to let Smokie know he was going to be outside, why didnt Smokie just come up right through the "drain" than? I just dont think Smokie is bound by water as much as he is bound by the lair in which we saw him when "judging" Ben. Thats why it couldnt go over the sonic fence when attacking Juliet or getting into the camp at all for that matter while the fence was on. For all we know, Smokie has made appearances as apparitions off the Island and also appeared on the Hydra Island as well.

Yes, yes...and for all we know the moon is made of green cheese...oh, wait a minute....we've been there and we know it isn't. Bad example but you get my drift. Please explain what you said about smokie and the sonic fence. You gave no reason why smokie was bound by it. I don't understand why his lair would keep him from going over the sonic fence. Smpkie, in its form as a cloud, avoids water. I think that is why when smokie takes a form of someone else, for instance if the deadLocke is smokie, it goes right into the water. This also happened with Christian Shephard if you remember. He stood in the water in his suit just like John Locke, deadLocke, did. It seems to me that water is an indulgence that smokie is not allowed for some reason. I think the reason why will come out when we find out just what smokie is. An angry ionic cloud? An ionic plasma? Who knows....yet. BTW, from what I read about sonar, its frequency causes friction, which would destroy or disrupt water molecules through the frictions heat. Something like that....

[LincolnEcho06]

I think the hostiles/Others are hardcore Americans. They're over-portective of their property, they've got lots of guns, a hidden nuclear weapon, a problem with current pregnancy births, a high-tech security system, higher-ups are secretive, they think they know it all, and think they are superior to everyone's feeble mind.

[SpaceBar]

The writers said that she's been killed off; although when I don't know. Lostpedia says it could have been during the raid on the survivors camp at the end of season 3.

Which makes perfect sense, because when I go out raiding camping villages I always bring a branding iron wielding, old lady with a questionable hip.

That's something that's always bugged me, how that lady was just forgotten about. Then we get told she's dead, but have no idea how.


Exactly. She seemed to be above Ben, and she was quite mysterious towards Jack. MAybe something happened to the actress? She doesn't look the type to get a DUI, but.....

[losttime]

Yes, yes...and for all we know the moon is made of green cheese...oh, wait a minute....we've been there and we know it isn't. Bad example but you get my drift. Please explain what you said about smokie and the sonic fence. You gave no reason why smokie was bound by it. I don't understand why his lair would keep him from going over the sonic fence. Smpkie, in its form as a cloud, avoids water. I think that is why when smokie takes a form of someone else, for instance if the deadLocke is smokie, it goes right into the water. This also happened with Christian Shephard if you remember. He stood in the water in his suit just like John Locke, deadLocke, did. It seems to me that water is an indulgence that smokie is not allowed for some reason. I think the reason why will come out when we find out just what smokie is. An angry ionic cloud? An ionic plasma? Who knows....yet. BTW, from what I read about sonar, its frequency causes friction, which would destroy or disrupt water molecules through the frictions heat. Something like that....

With regard to the sonic fence and Smokie, why cant it go over it as Kate and the rest of them did. For some reason it seems bound to the ground. If Smokie is an intelligent entity as we believe it is as shown by what it can do, than why cant it just go up and over the fence which isnt exceptionally all that high? I think it has something to do with its connection to the lair in which we saw it "judging" Ben. And by that I mean anything that has to do wit hthe underground lair anywhere on the Island and off perhaps. But whether Smokie is in human form or not its still Smokie so the fact that Christian was standing in the water and was in fact an apparition of Smokie still means that it was Smokie in the water. Just like iLocke still couldnt kill Jacob himself because it was still BeachBoy although disguised as JL. The reason why Smokie cant go too far from the Lair? I dont have the slightest clue. But I still havent seen anything to indicate it doesnt like water or bound by it. I guess if we knew who the Claire we saw at Kates house telling her not to bring Aaron back was Smoie or not would kinda discredit eiother one of our theories on Smokie.

[SpaceBar]

Because Smokey is actually Aaron...

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Not really. Notice anything about all them dots, anyone?

[rawbdee]

Very sneaky.. 4815162342


To the Original Poster, I agree with the only leaders get judged theory.

I don't have any evidence to back it up but it seems to make sense. However was Widmore judged? because it seems like Ben was the one to exile him.

[losttime]

I'm refering to when she killed an Other while Sawyer and Kate escaped on the outrigger while Jack was fixing up Ben. I don't remember the episode or the Other that was killed. Instead of that whole sherif and "town meeting" and marking, shouldn't she have been sent to the Smoke Monster to be judged? That is, if what Ben told fake Locke after he woke up is true. I guess the point of this topic wasn't to make light of a potential plothole or the writer's lack of forward thinking, but more to the validity of what Ben said to fake Locke. This was before he saw his dead daughter so it's within the realm of possibilities that he was lying about the Smoke Monster being a "judge." That begs the question though, if Ben wasn't lying, what prompted Ben to come back to the island to be judged?

Thats because Ben really wasnt bing judged for supposedly killing Alex. Interesting enough its the only thing he has any hurt over happening. He isnt "judged" for putting Goodwin in a position he knew he would die. He basically had the Looking Glass Station worlers killed.

Basically it is to "trick" those who are going to be "tricked". It had nothing at all to do with him being the Leader. He did not kill Alex nor di dhe willfully kill her or anything like that. He never expevted her to die and even responded that "He changed the rules". Why would he say this if he never expevted her to die in the first place?

Ben was being set up to convince him to follow Locke and do whatever he asks. No sooner is he threatened by Alex/Smokey, he is told by Locke to kill Jacob.

This was all an attempt of misdirection by TPTB to make us think he was really being judged for Alex'es death. Ben did many more horrible things including having other "Others" killed. The one he was shocked over is the one he is judged for? Does that make sense? Not really.

[3d-aholic]

I don't understand why his lair would keep him from going over the sonic fence. Smpkie, in its form as a cloud, avoids water.
I agree with you Notosolost. I think that Smokie cannot propagate through solid water....and the scientific reasons are the same as why it can't propagate through sound waves. Its a function of propagation. In fact, I don't think it can propagate through solid earth either. That is why, I believe, once the bodies are buried, they are safe.

[mattyboyUK]

Interesting discussion here,

Was 'Smokey' around in the 70's? presumably. Horace was/is a leader, had he been judged? The Cabin he was building seemed to be outside the fence, perfect opportunity to. Was the fence built to keep Smokey out or perhaps for other reasons. Old Black only appears to 'attack' new arrivals to the Island ( with a few exceptions ) He did take out the girl first, who didn't appear to be 'a leader' when the french team arrived. So does smokey kill without 'judging'? surely 'it' must have a reason for doing so. What about all the other Dharma folk? ( the dock is outside the fence ) Why is the everyone presuming that 'Nemesis/ MIB' ( call him what you want ) is evil? The whole story seems to be about bringing a change to the island, so is that a change to usher in a new era of evilness?

I do agree the travel over/through water thing is not on the cards for smokey. I've asked this question before, what is the purpose of the second Island? for what or whom is a 'safe haven from judgment needed?'

[Desi420]

Interesting discussion here,

Was 'Smokey' around in the 70's? presumably. Horace was/is a leader, had he been judged? The Cabin he was building seemed to be outside the fence, perfect opportunity to. Was the fence built to keep Smokey out or perhaps for other reasons. Old Black only appears to 'attack' new arrivals to the Island ( with a few exceptions ) He did take out the girl first, who didn't appear to be 'a leader' when the french team arrived. So does smokey kill without 'judging'? surely 'it' must have a reason for doing so. What about all the other Dharma folk? ( the dock is outside the fence ) Why is the everyone presuming that 'Nemesis/ MIB' ( call him what you want ) is evil? The whole story seems to be about bringing a change to the island, so is that a change to usher in a n

I do agree the travel over/through water thing is not on the cards for smokey. I've asked this question before, what is the purpose of the second Island? for what or whom is a 'safe haven from judgment needed?'
Good point, I'm glad that some one pointed out the other island.

[onlykindalost]

My interpretation of Ben's being judged was that it was HIS choice-not necessarily part of "the rules". At one point he says that the Others don't even have a name for the smoke monster. I think he was just feeling guilty...Or maybe he had to confront the Monster as a punishment for coming back to the island after he left. He seemed pretty surprised to be seeing Alex. And yeah, when the hell did Isabella get killed???

[burninglotus77]

I think that Ben was going back to be judged by Smokes in regards to killing Locke, but then it seems he is only judged in regards to Alex. Perhaps Smokes realized while judging Ben, that he could easily be manipulated into following Locke to Jacob and to kill him. Smokes just used Alex as a way to get to Ben's conscience and give him a 'push.'