It only ends once.

[Cogito]

Now how would Jacob know that? Unless he was there to witness it or someone told him.
If we have seen Jacob die how would he have this information? Is the end the beginning or is the beginning the end?
Was there a sole survivor on the island at the end who with the islands help was granted access to try to change the past. Did this survivor seek out special people in the past to who maybe able to assist in this journey of redemption?
After five years of prequel is season six the sequel?

[LissaMarie]

Hey Cogito. Welcome, welcome, welcome! :)

Those are all very good questions and my hope is that we'll be put out of our misery asap. 9 weeks to go! Yippee!

I really don't think Jacob is dead...or at least his story and influence isn't at an end. I like the idea of him seeking out special people to assist in changing the past very much. Welcome to the TCC group! :D

[chester]

Maybe Season 6 is the prequel to the first five seasons of sequel.

[LissaMarie]

I hope part of the season is but I want to resolve what we've seen thus far. An endless loop would be maddening!

[burninglotus77]

Haven't thought about Lost since the season ended, but I just read this post about Jacob being Dead and saw the Season 6 poster and something popped into my head...

What about Frank? I know the Ilyana's crew mentioned that he was a "candidate" but we weren't sure for what. Frank is not shown on the poster for the new Season, but pretty much all 'major' characters (minus Walt) are shown.

Perhaps 'Jacob' will take over Frank's body or soul to be 'reborn' since his current body was burned. Probably way, way off base, but I thought it would be worth noting in case it sparks any fun new theories on the show from some one else. I know I didn't back up my thoughts with any real facts or relevant info, but I'm too tired to really do that right now. :D

[LissaMarie]

OOH, I like that idea Lotus! That has been nibbling at my mind since the finale. I think that sounds like a good possibility. Great idea! :)

Is he really not on the poster? I couldn't really make out who was standing next to Dezzie and I assumed it was Frank. I could just be making that up though!

[Cogito]

Hey Cogito. Welcome, welcome, welcome! :)

Those are all very good questions and my hope is that we'll be put out of our misery asap. 9 weeks to go! Yippee!

I really don't think Jacob is dead...or at least his story and influence isn't at an end. I like the idea of him seeking out special people to assist in changing the past very much. Welcome to the TCC group! :D

Thanks for the welcome!

His life through our eyes was short lived. 1 episode. We knew his name well but not his face. Now that we know what he looks like it must have some relevance and of course his Nemesis.

Maybe Season 6 is the prequel to the first five seasons of sequel.

That, to me makes the most sense. If the Island must be saved then it has to be around in the future. If someone blew it up in the past we would be out of business.

Haven't thought about Lost since the season ended, but I just read this post about Jacob being Dead and saw the Season 6 poster and something popped into my head...

What about Frank? I know the Ilyana's crew mentioned that he was a "candidate" but we weren't sure for what. Frank is not shown on the poster for the new Season, but pretty much all 'major' characters (minus Walt) are shown.

Perhaps 'Jacob' will take over Frank's body or soul to be 'reborn' since his current body was burned. Probably way, way off base, but I thought it would be worth noting in case it sparks any fun new theories on the show from some one else. I know I didn't back up my thoughts with any real facts or relevant info, but I'm too tired to really do that right now. :D

The Others seem to get information before it happens. Files. They seem to be at the right place at the right time.
This may mean that they get further instructions from the future and if so they would have to be very careful how they use it. They would have to be very stealth in there interactions with people in the past. Make them think it was there idea when dealing with complex decisions.
I would hate to see Frank change he has been good just being Frank. I think Jacob could not die until he was born. I think there is a law around somewhere in physics that states this. Maybe Franks a good candidate to help a younger Jacob.

[LostandAlone]

Haven't thought about Lost since the season ended, but I just read this post about Jacob being Dead and saw the Season 6 poster and something popped into my head...

What about Frank? I know the Ilyana's crew mentioned that he was a "candidate" but we weren't sure for what. Frank is not shown on the poster for the new Season, but pretty much all 'major' characters (minus Walt) are shown.

Perhaps 'Jacob' will take over Frank's body or soul to be 'reborn' since his current body was burned. Probably way, way off base, but I thought it would be worth noting in case it sparks any fun new theories on the show from some one else. I know I didn't back up my thoughts with any real facts or relevant info, but I'm too tired to really do that right now. :D

Well - The "Bodies that were taken over" were all dead. Frank isn't dead (yet) as far as I know. Besides, the actual dead bodies weren't taken over, something or someone manifest an image or likeness of the deceased - as in John Locke's real dead body being dumped out of the box. The Locke that told Ben to kill Jacob wasn't really Locke's body (least I don't think so). I'm not seeing the connection of Jacob and Frank - but anything is possible.

[LissaMarie]

Well - The "Bodies that were taken over" were all dead. Frank isn't dead (yet) as far as I know. Besides, the actual dead bodies weren't taken over, something or someone manifest an image or likeness of the deceased - as in John Locke's real dead body being dumped out of the box. The Locke that told Ben to kill Jacob wasn't really Locke's body (least I don't think so). I'm not seeing the connection of Jacob and Frank - but anything is possible.

Good point LA but don't forget that Locke wasn't dead before Ben got there. Anything really is possible!

By the way, did I mention how much I love your new avi? SO PRETTY!! :)

[losttime]

Maybe Season 6 is the prequel to the first five seasons of sequel.

Not a complete "no" since TPTB said no more FF's but FB's.

[Cogito]

Well - The "Bodies that were taken over" were all dead. Frank isn't dead (yet) as far as I know. Besides, the actual dead bodies weren't taken over, something or someone manifest an image or likeness of the deceased - as in John Locke's real dead body being dumped out of the box. The Locke that told Ben to kill Jacob wasn't really Locke's body (least I don't think so). I'm not seeing the connection of Jacob and Frank - but anything is possible.

The island systems may have its own book of laws. If a individual is alive a operator can use dreams or visions to further a cause. The individual being alive still has free will to choose what to do.
If the island has visual confirmation that a individual is dead then a operator can use a copy of the the individual to further a cause, good or bad.
The operators might have to work within the frame work of the laws unless they can find a loophole within that framework to further there cause.
When cheating is detected then the security system eliminates the perpetrator.

[LostandAlone]

Good point LA but don't forget that Locke wasn't dead before Ben got there. Anything really is possible!

By the way, did I mention how much I love your new avi? SO PRETTY!! :)

Thanks Lisa - you're a sweetheart!;)

[Cogito]

I hope part of the season is but I want to resolve what we've seen thus far. An endless loop would be maddening!

Desmond's destruction of the Swan may have been the beginning of the end of the circle. Executing the number input or saving the data may have been what was keeping the loop intact. Or just saving the one version of the world.
When the Swan imploded it threw Desmond, John, Eko and Charlie off of the merry go round, most likely to the future and back.
Course correction started shortly there after, 3 of 4 are now dead. We know for some reason Desmond is special, possibly because he took a full dose of exotic matter with his hand on the key or if you are a romantic " he did it for love" or he is the only one of the 4 who was taking the injections.
The Swan went away when the key was turned, but where did it go? My guess back to the future.

[chester]

Nice thinking there Cogito. :)

[LissaMarie]

Desmond's destruction of the Swan may have been the beginning of the end of the circle. Executing the number input or saving the data may have been what was keeping the loop intact. Or just saving the one version of the world.
When the Swan imploded it threw Desmond, John, Eko and Charlie off of the merry go round, most likely to the future and back.
Course correction started shortly there after, 3 of 4 are now dead. We know for some reason Desmond is special, possibly because he took a full dose of exotic matter with his hand on the key or if you are a romantic " he did it for love" or he is the only one of the 4 who was taking the injections.
The Swan went away when the key was turned, but where did it go? My guess back to the future.

Very interesting, Cogito. I love the idea of the 3 others aside from Desmond being toast because of course correction. That is something I've never considered before. Great thought. :)

So are you asserting that the Swan will be intact at some point in the future?

[Cogito]

So are you asserting that the Swan will be intact at some point in the future?

When the Swan imploded it left a circle in the ground. I was perfectly willing to accept that it was destroyed.
When Ben turned the wheel and the island moved we saw the same circle in the ocean.
The island seemed to have moved so I think the Swan may have just moved to.
We know Desmond jumped forward and then back, what if the Swan did the same thing? Kinda like when you slam on the breaks in your car, momentum throws you forward and and then slams you back in your seat. Desmond, Locke, Eko and Charlie may have been thrown out of the car or the Swan but back wards momentum may have sent the Swan to the past. Way in the past, what would a group of Egyptians or Black Rockers think if they found something like this buried on the island in there time?

[LissaMarie]

LOL....it just struck me that I look a lot like your avatar everytime I read one of your posts! Again, that's an interesting thought, Cogito. :D

[Cogito]

LOL....it just struck me that I look a lot like your avatar everytime I read one of your posts! Again, that's an interesting thought, Cogito. :D

M'lady not in five life times could you ever be mistaken for me.

Desmond is a expert sailor. We have never learned how he became a expert sailor in any of his flashbacks. Yet he is more at home on the sea than on land. He is living on a ship right now with Penny and Charlie. I am starting to wonder if in a "different life" or time is where he learned his seamanship?

[losttime]

Maybe Season 6 is the prequel to the first five seasons of sequel.

Intersting Chester. Something similar to Star Wars huh? But not entirely since we still dont have the destinies yet, or at least some of them.

Well never mind not really like the way Star Wars was done LOL

[LissaMarie]

M'lady not in five life times could you ever be mistaken for me.

Desmond is a expert sailor. We have never learned how he became a expert sailor in any of his flashbacks. Yet he is more at home on the sea than on land. He is living on a ship right now with Penny and Charlie. I am starting to wonder if in a "different life" or time is where he learned his seamanship?

Aw, I wasn't even fishing for a compliment that time. Thanks, Cogito. :)

That's another good question. I originally thought he might have gotten the training in the Royal Scot Regiment but I don't think that's the case. We don't know squat about Desmond's childhood or upbringing at all. I really hope we find out more!!

[xxsodafiendxx]

I kinda think that its a continuing loop, and that some of the survivors (locke, charlie, claire) and Others (juliet, ben, friendly) knew it. How else would the Others know to build an airstrip on the island? how else would they be able to pull such extensive files on the survivors after being there for a few weeks? im just sayin....

[lost-a-lot]

M'lady not in five life times could you ever be mistaken for me.

Desmond is a expert sailor. We have never learned how he became a expert sailor in any of his flashbacks. Yet he is more at home on the sea than on land. He is living on a ship right now with Penny and Charlie. I am starting to wonder if in a "different life" or time is where he learned his seamanship?

Cogito, do you think Desmond might have been (might become) Adm. MacCutcheon, namesake of Widmore's whiskey? That would be pretty cool.

[chester]

Cogito, do you think Desmond might have been (might become) Adm. MacCutcheon, namesake of Widmore's whiskey? That would be pretty cool.

Now that would be cool. Love it. :)

[Cogito]

I originally thought he might have gotten the training in the Royal Scot Regiment but I don't think that's the case. We don't know squat about Desmond's childhood or upbringing at all. I really hope we find out more!!

Cogito, do you think Desmond might have been (might become) Adm. MacCutcheon, namesake of Widmore's whiskey? That would be pretty cool.

Desmond was a coward and the admiral was a hero, opposites but both royal, one a royal scot the other royal navy. Hero and anti hero. I think someway some how they are very related.

Now that would be cool. Love it. :)

Chester my friend I hope you are right.

I kinda think that its a continuing loop, and that some of the survivors (locke, charlie, claire) and Others (juliet, ben, friendly) knew it. How else would the Others know to build an airstrip on the island? how else would they be able to pull such extensive files on the survivors after being there for a few weeks? im just sayin....

The best way to remember something is to write it down, put it in a file or a repeating transmission a recording, if you can remember where the file is or what the transmission means. I think being able to remember will give you a great advantage over those who can not. This may separate some from others.

Desmond's sailboat race around the world was based loosely on the Volvo sailboat race around the world. They even used quotes from the Volvo race on the brochure that Desmond gave Libby in the coffee shop.
The first Volvo race ever held started and ended in Portsmouth UK., home port of the Black Rock.
The problem is no sailboat race around the world has ever had a leg stop in LA. So why go to all the trouble to reference the Volvo race.
Here is a generic sailboat race circumnavigation map http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CircumnavigationByCapes.png red is the standard race map and yellow is the antipode. Yellow is close to LA but not in Portland. So who's race was Desmond really in?

[rawbdee]

What about Frank? I know the Ilyana's crew mentioned that he was a "candidate" but we weren't sure for what. Frank is not shown on the poster for the new Season, but pretty much all 'major' characters (minus Walt) are shown.


Frank is on the poster, on the left between Charlotte and Shannon.

[danielle]

Executing the number input or saving the data may have been what was keeping the loop intact. Or just saving the one version of the world.

Are you saying that each time the numbers were entered and the execute button was pushed, the losties were almost 'backing up' the data on themselves (without knowing it) in case the loop became broken and needed to be reinstated somehow in the future? ooh, that's an interesting thought...

[chester]

Are you saying that each time the numbers were entered and the execute button was pushed, the losties were almost 'backing up' the data on themselves (without knowing it) in case the loop became broken and needed to be reinstated somehow in the future? ooh, that's an interesting thought...

I agree .

[burninglotus77]

Frank is on the poster, on the left between Charlotte and Shannon.

Yes, I did catch that before but forgot to correct myself on here...thanks!

[Cogito]

Are you saying that each time the numbers were entered and the execute button was pushed, the losties were almost 'backing up' the data on themselves (without knowing it) in case the loop became broken and needed to be reinstated somehow in the future? ooh, that's an interesting thought...

They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.
Dharma was searching for the one true way. I think that they think they found it. Perhaps they found a way to preserve or extend there vision of a perfect world by using the islands unique properties. We always save the things that are most precious to us. But what is precious to some maybe a threat to to others. We see it everyday.
We are what we are and change takes time.
When a truce is broken, or one side encroaches on another's territory we all suffer. Wars start.
The only statue that has had any significance to me on the island is the the one that was misused the most.

When I find myself in times of trouble, mother Mary comes to me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

[bunnydixon]

just reading this thread - kinda interesting. the whole chat about desmond made me think - is there more to him being naked when hurley finds him other than 'the hatch just blew of his underwear?' (and im not just being a perv for a change).

[LissaMarie]

Like....he was being "reborn" in a sense?

[bunnydixon]

i guess so.

[LissaMarie]

...as a nudist? :D

Kidding. I think that's a perfectly good point, Bunny. The hatch blowing off his underware just didn't cut it as a reason, that's for sure! So was Dezzie always special or was he special after turning the failsafe key and being reborn?

[bunnydixon]

as a model for oversized tie dye shirts :D

yeah - i am wondering if this is significant as the start of something or a change within desmond - we know he starts the flashes at this point but is there more to it?

[LissaMarie]

It seems like if anyone has the potential to be a "Savior", it would be Dezzie. I think that's a great question, Buns! I do think the flashes started there and it seems that Des "littered" himself or made his mark all through at least one timeline. That has to be significant, especially if you believe in Daniel's theory about variables.

[stream]

ya know when you have your math homework, and you forgot your notes or your book sometimes you get a scratch paper and play with those variables, plugging them into that formula, randomly at first and then when you know more you get to narrowing in on it , interpolating until you have the answer and work backward from there
I don't know if any of the writers are mathematicians, but It is starting to act that way, time wise

[lost-a-lot]

ya know when you have your math homework, and you forgot your notes or your book sometimes you get a scratch paper and play with those variables, plugging them into that formula, randomly at first and then when you know more you get to narrowing in on it , interpolating until you have the answer and work backward from there
I don't know if any of the writers are mathematicians, but It is starting to act that way, time wise

Not me, stream. I'm terrible with numbers. Are you talking about reverse time?

[stream]

not directly but it may be a way to get to a place back in time, I am not sure, The variable has to be within a range depending on the formula, like you can't have a zero on the bottom of a fraction, its a big math faux pas

[Cogito]

I think Desmond is a naked singularity. If so, this makes all impossible things possible.
Even loopholes. I think Desmond was the lock and Locke was the key.

[LissaMarie]

Spill it, Cogito! :D

What do you mean lock & key specifically? I'm intrigued....

[Ladihawke]

All this math talk has made me dizzy! You people lost me. Don't you all think that there has to be s more simplistic answer that all of us can understand? There are a number of questions that have not been answered for me. I keep thinking of the segment when Miles went to visit the woman and they went out of the way to show the pictures on the wall etc., and then it just never came up again. Now he is on the island both as a baby and as an adult. What's up with that? I don't know how many segments there are to finish this all up, but in the words of Dezi Arnes, they've got some" esplainin to do"!

[lost-a-lot]

All this math talk has made me dizzy! You people lost me. Don't you all think that there has to be s more simplistic answer that all of us can understand? There are a number of questions that have not been answered for me. I keep thinking of the segment when Miles went to visit the woman and they went out of the way to show the pictures on the wall etc., and then it just never came up again. Now he is on the island both as a baby and as an adult. What's up with that? I don't know how many segments there are to finish this all up, but in the words of Dezi Arnes, they've got some" esplainin to do"!

Hi Ladihawke. :) LOTS of splainin,' that's for sure. What is it you mean by the pictures? What should they explain?

not directly but it may be a way to get to a place back in time, I am not sure, The variable has to be within a range depending on the formula, like you can't have a zero on the bottom of a fraction, its a big math faux pas

*shakes head slowly* I’m gonna have to take your word for it, stream. (Can I call you Goldie? I like her too. :))

I think Desmond is a naked singularity. If so, this makes all impossible things possible.
Even loopholes. I think Desmond was the lock and Locke was the key.

Spill it, Cogito! :D

What do you mean lock & key specifically? I'm intrigued....

Me too. C’mon, Cogito, let’s have it :)

[Ladihawke]

I am talking about the segment where Miles went to a lady's house to help her with his 'machine" and went up stairs. On his way up, the camera went to a picture on the wall. When he came back down, the picture was different. What was meant by that whole segment. Did I miss something?

[Panda]

It only ends once....
For some reason this song pops up in my head

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_5ChDbbaJ4 :)

[losttime]

It only ends once....
For some reason this song pops up in my head

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_5ChDbbaJ4 :)

I was thinking more of this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDN9y2vTdUs

One of the best songs ever

[lost-a-lot]

Nice. ...And Locke could pass for that REM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eyFiClAzq8) guy if he thinned out a little.

I am talking about the segment where Miles went to a lady's house to help her with his 'machine" and went up stairs. On his way up, the camera went to a picture on the wall. When he came back down, the picture was different. What was meant by that whole segment. Did I miss something?

Good one. :) Well, I know that some of us who believe inconsistencies like that are intentional see them as clues pointing to one of the following:

Time-travel in LOST allows for the changing of reality
or
Alternate Realities (Multiple Realities) are playing a part.

Even if they don't reference that particular scene again, we ought to find out the reason for variations like that, whatever it is.

[krakup]

I am talking about the segment where Miles went to a lady's house to help her with his 'machine" and went up stairs. On his way up, the camera went to a picture on the wall. When he came back down, the picture was different. What was meant by that whole segment. Did I miss something?

just thought i'd post the pic

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr3/baxterkrak/photoframes.jpg

[Ladihawke]

Hurray! You found it. Do you see the inconsisties between that wall of pictures? Why did they point this out to us? What does it mean? It seems like many of you have figured some things out and I need help! Thanks!

[chester]

Hurray! You found it. Do you see the inconsisties between that wall of pictures? Why did they point this out to us? What does it mean? It seems like many of you have figured some things out and I need help! Thanks!

I think other than making a production error obvious, the intent of showing us the differences in the two scenes, it to provide a clue that there are two different realities involved in that scene. These may be the result of someone going back in time and changing things elsewhere; the butterfly effect of those changes showing up in the house as a change in photo frames. Or it may have been the result of whatever Miles himself did in the room. Or maybe the dead kid's mother was doing a psychological experiment and seeing if Miles would notice the difference after she quickly changed things around while Miles was upstairs.

[MagicoA]

After five years of prequel is season six the sequel?
now i think you meant that the other way around cuz if u say that someone went back to the beginning and that is before all we have seen then what we have seen are sequels and this season would be a prequel,can any1 back me up on that?

[wxbadger]

MiB - "They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt, it always ends the same".
Jacob - "It only ends once, anything that happens before that is just progress".

You ask how does Jacob know this? Why/How does whoever wrote Revelations know that's going to happen? I think this whole show is based on religious aspects. MiB is Satan, Jacob is Jesus/God, Ben is Judas, and many of the main characters are Apostles. And the big war that's coming ("It only ends once") is Revelations.

I think what's more interesting is what does Jacob mean by "anything that happens before that is just progress"?

[Cogito]

Spill it, Cogito! :D

What do you mean lock & key specifically? I'm intrigued....

I think there is a reason Locke/ MIB wants to go home.

" No one ever leaves the Island"

Did you see Avatar? James Cameron finished the script in 1995, but the technology did not exist to create his vision. He had to wait until science caught up with his vision, 14 years later.

I think MIB is in the same boat. He had to wait until Dharma brought technology to the Island to create his loophole to try to initiate his plan to "go home".

[Captain67]

just thought i'd post the pic

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr3/baxterkrak/photoframes.jpg

Not only is the pictures difernt; the wall is differnt.differnt panneling, and molding and design. maybe its just the angle.

[Cogito]

Not only is the pictures difernt; the wall is differnt.differnt panneling, and molding and design. maybe its just the angle.

I think the realities were only a few minutes apart.

Now we see the sideways reality and the Island are three years apart.

I think what was done in the past, Juliet: "it worked" expanded the time gap between places.

Minutes become years. I think it bought someone time to close a loophole.