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though2544
02-27-2008, 05:32 AM
Ok first, I'm not sure if this has been brought up before. I try to read most of the posts, but I do miss some, so in case it has...my appologies.

I love rewatching old episodes because there is always something that either you missed the first time around or there is something you didn't miss and didn't think much of it at the time, but has to do with something presently going on in the show. I was watching the third episode of Season 2 titled "Orientation" last night and I found something very interesting to me. I haven't really given this much thought and don't really know where I'm going with this, but check it:

In the orientation film that Jack and Locke watch while Desmond is trying to fix the computer, Dr. Marvin Candle enlightens the two of them (and us viewers) what the Dharma Initiative's focus was.

"...imagined a large scale communal research compound where scientists and free thinkers from around the globe could pursue research in meteorology, psychology, parapsychology, zoology, electromagnetism, and Utopian social [splice]..."

What caught my eye during this was when he said parapsychology, the image shown on the film was a blindfolded woman pointing at one of three colored balls with the DeGroots observing. When she points, Karen DeGroot writes something down and smiles and Gerald DeGroot gives Karen a quick glance.

The first thing that came to mind when I saw the blindfolded woman point at one of the three balls was the scene from last week's episode, "Eggtown", where Charlotte and Daniel are on the beach doing the three card thing. There have been discussions on these boards about Daniel having memory loss and that the cards are a memory exercise. There have been other discussions saying that the card scene was showing Daniel's psychic abilities. I wasn't too sure what parapsychology meant or what it encompased so I went to Wikipedia. I bought the "Daniel has memory loss" angle from the get go, but after reading the entry for parapsychology, I had to re-evaluate that card scene:

Parapsychology is the study of ostensibly paranormal psychological phenomena. Phenomena studied include extra-sensory perception, psychokinesis, and survival of consciousness after death.

I'm not too sure how psychokinesis plays into LOST unless I'm forgetting something, but survival of consciousness after death? A strange line spoken from Miles in Season 4.02 "Confirmed Dead" comes to mind: "What are you doing? That's not Naomi. That's just meat." And as far as extra-sensory perception is concerned (aside from the posibility that Daniel wasn't remembering the cards, but using psychic abilities to figure them out), Miles and Desmond come to mind. Later in the article it gets into the scope of research involved with parapsychology and two of the ostensible paranormal phenomena mentioned are clairvoyance and precogniton. We have seen that Miles has the ability to somehow communicate with the dead, an example of clairvoyance. And of course we all know of our friend Desmond's ability to use precognition to see the future.

Like I said, I'm not sure where I'm going with this. All I know is that after reading that article on Wikipedia, I find it very curious that the Dharma Initiative was, in a sense, studying the same unique characteristics that we see in Miles, Desmond, and arguably Daniel. If you got anything to add on the subject, please do. I find this very interesting.

UnknownPoster
02-27-2008, 07:40 AM
I don't have much to add but I know you are on to something. As I watch, I see more different ways the show could possibly progress and I hope they do get back to teh DHARMA stuff.

Dan and the cards could go either way, either memory or ESP.
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bunnydixon
02-27-2008, 10:18 AM
yeah i agree - it could go either way! he appears as if he has some memory issues so it could well be related to that but then again, its your stereotypical esp experiment.

beachblinkette
02-27-2008, 04:49 PM
This was on a spoiler thread about what a character on Lost might want to have handy:A blackboard eraser-you never know when you may accidently leave behind a veiled symbol of where you've been(relating to harmless doodles on a chalkboard) A really strong leash-Really strong-sheesh, the things some people keep for pets.Passport, money, and a gun, oh-and a quick way off the island.A damn good explanation for who you're working for.A copy of Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars, but it doesn't explain where babies come from does it?A couple of hammocks and a pack of Zener cards. The uptight surgeon's guide to letting go.Zener cards are the ones they use to assess a persons ability to predict the future.Just google Zener cards and you will get more info and be able to take a test of your own abilities.

thelawgiver
02-27-2008, 05:08 PM
Here's a link to a clip showing young Daniel's first exposures as a subject on parapsychology!

http://www.killerclips.com/clip.php?id=37&qid=1803&PHPSESSID=9c0a21a72ec7a6a08472543a08016c6c

bunnydixon
02-27-2008, 05:21 PM
hehehehehee!!!!! i almost mentioned that!

'bustin' makes me feeeeeeeeeeel good :D

LostFreak21
02-27-2008, 05:27 PM
Ok first, I'm not sure if this has been brought up before. I try to read most of the posts, but I do miss some, so in case it has...my appologies.

I love rewatching old episodes because there is always something that either you missed the first time around or there is something you didn't miss and didn't think much of it at the time, but has to do with something presently going on in the show. I was watching the third episode of Season 2 titled "Orientation" last night and I found something very interesting to me. I haven't really given this much thought and don't really know where I'm going with this, but check it:

In the orientation film that Jack and Locke watch while Desmond is trying to fix the computer, Dr. Marvin Candle enlightens the two of them (and us viewers) what the Dharma Initiative's focus was.

"...imagined a large scale communal research compound where scientists and free thinkers from around the globe could pursue research in meteorology, psychology, parapsychology, zoology, electromagnetism, and Utopian social [splice]..."

What caught my eye during this was when he said parapsychology, the image shown on the film was a blindfolded woman pointing at one of three colored balls with the DeGroots observing. When she points, Karen DeGroot writes something down and smiles and Gerald DeGroot gives Karen a quick glance.

The first thing that came to mind when I saw the blindfolded woman point at one of the three balls was the scene from last week's episode, "Eggtown", where Charlotte and Daniel are on the beach doing the three card thing. There have been discussions on these boards about Daniel having memory loss and that the cards are a memory exercise. There have been other discussions saying that the card scene was showing Daniel's psychic abilities. I wasn't too sure what parapsychology meant or what it encompased so I went to Wikipedia. I bought the "Daniel has memory loss" angle from the get go, but after reading the entry for parapsychology, I had to re-evaluate that card scene:

Parapsychology is the study of ostensibly paranormal psychological phenomena. Phenomena studied include extra-sensory perception, psychokinesis, and survival of consciousness after death.

I'm not too sure how psychokinesis plays into LOST unless I'm forgetting something, but survival of consciousness after death? A strange line spoken from Miles in Season 4.02 "Confirmed Dead" comes to mind: "What are you doing? That's not Naomi. That's just meat." And as far as extra-sensory perception is concerned (aside from the posibility that Daniel wasn't remembering the cards, but using psychic abilities to figure them out), Miles and Desmond come to mind. Later in the article it gets into the scope of research involved with parapsychology and two of the ostensible paranormal phenomena mentioned are clairvoyance and precogniton. We have seen that Miles has the ability to somehow communicate with the dead, an example of clairvoyance. And of course we all know of our friend Desmond's ability to use precognition to see the future.

Like I said, I'm not sure where I'm going with this. All I know is that after reading that article on Wikipedia, I find it very curious that the Dharma Initiative was, in a sense, studying the same unique characteristics that we see in Miles, Desmond, and arguably Daniel. If you got anything to add on the subject, please do. I find this very interesting.

That was a great find. I think you have something there!

justjoe
02-27-2008, 06:16 PM
Bustin' makes me feel good too. Oh you mean ghost busting. I believe when Dan was taking that test he mentioned that he already forgot what the cards were after just seeing them so I don't think an ESP experiment is taking place there.

Dzbabykel
02-27-2008, 06:17 PM
I think you make a very great point and that it could potentially go both ways....especially when Charlotte tells Daniel its "progress" you automatically want to think he's getting better with his memory...but maybe he's becoming stronger in his psychic abilities? Definitely something to think about, thanks for posting :)

Dzbabykel
02-27-2008, 06:18 PM
Does anyone know if Dan saw the cards before they were turned over??

justjoe
02-27-2008, 06:18 PM
Dz I'm going to have to go back and rewatch but I thought Daniel was frustrated because he just saw the cards and couldn't remember them all.

Dzbabykel
02-27-2008, 06:22 PM
Yah JJ thats exactly how I took it but ya never know with this show. But I've kept the assumption that something happened to him causing him to lose his memory, going back to the first episode that showed him confused and saying he didn't know why he was so upset.

bunnydixon
02-27-2008, 06:28 PM
yeas i assumed it was a mix of frustration and disappoinetment in himself.

Rain13
02-27-2008, 07:03 PM
This is a very interesting idea, particularly with regards to Desmond and Miles. I don't really think it applies to Daniel, since I thought it was pretty clear that Daniel had already seen the cards and was simply trying to remember them. It seemed to me like they were repeating this exercise over and over and that he still could not remember them, which is why Charlotte said they were making progress and then didn't she seem to start the experiment over at that point? I definately think this is important though.

beachblinkette
02-27-2008, 10:42 PM
It just occurred to me that there are 5 Zener cards. A hollow circle, a Greek cross, 3 vertical wavy lines , a hollow square, and a hollow 5-pointed star. 25 cards in a pack, 5 of each design. They are used to conduct exper. in ESP-clairvoyance. Perceptual psych, Karl Zener designed the cards in the early 1930's and worked with his colleague parapsychologist J.B, Rhine. To take the test yourself, go to (http://www.psychic-experiences.com/psychic-tests/zener-cards.php) or just go to Wikipedia and type Zener card.If Daniel can't even remember the five symbols, then he is indeed having memory problems.

Turnip Queen
02-27-2008, 10:52 PM
I like your ideas on this - I've always been interested in parapsychology and was wondering what the deal was with Dan. There's so much stuff mixed in to everything that it seems to be a bit of everything rather than just one element of something, that's why it's so hard to put your finger on one thing I think!

thelawgiver
02-27-2008, 10:58 PM
Charlotte is just pulling a David Blane on Daniel to pass the time!

UnknownPoster
02-27-2008, 11:16 PM
So you think he was trying to remember the same three cards each time?

Doesn't it seem like a physicist would need a halfway decent memory to deal with all the formulas and experiments etc?
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beachblinkette
02-28-2008, 03:16 PM
Daniel's memory probs may be like what people experience as they age. Seniors often vividly remember events of long ago better than what they did yesterday. Daniel might be able to recall his early training as a physicist better than any new input.I just wonder if he has post traumatic stress disorder and that's why he can't seem to follow what they told him about NOT telling the islanders anything. He's almost childlike in that respect. He needs a caretaker so something's going on with him.