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ahmaji90
12-04-2009, 12:43 AM
Ok. So this is why I think the S.M./enemy of Jacob went through with this plan. Throughout all of season 5, the island is traveling through time because Jacks father (dead(S.M.)) told Locke to turn the wheel in order to hide the island. So why would the S.M. tell Locke to do that? Well if they can somehow go back in time, the S.M. can devise a plan to somehow be freed from the cabin Jacob trapped him. So because time is shifting, things are happening that have not already occurred. Locke, Sawyer, Juliet, Farraday, etc. are all flying though time over and over. Locke visited the others during the 50's which was their past, but Locks present. It had not happened for Locke yet, but it was happening in the past. This means Locke could not remember the island from the past when he first arrived there because it had not yet happened in the future. So time is screwed up because the S.M. told Locke to turn the wheel. Locke sees Albert at the plane and for some reason Alpert from the past knows about the current (present) shift in time.

Stay with me its confusing.

Albert only knew to tell Locke that in the past, because Locke from the future (S.M.) told Alpert to do so. He knew exactly when and where because he had Lockes memories. So Alpert tells Locke he must die in order to bring back the others. Locke sees Jacks father at the time shifting wheel and tells him do I have to die? Jacks dad tells him its called sacrifice for a reason. So why on earth would S.M. posing as Locke and Jacks dad tell Locke he needs to die? Well the S.M. can only possess people’s bodies if they have already died. How could he possess locke if he did not die yet? So he sends Locke to his death off the Island. So S.M. can finally possess Locke freely. Ben and the others are shocked to see Locke walking about the Island despite his death. They truly believe that he is 'Special'. Locke demands to see jacob and makes Alpert to take him to his home. Ben becomes extremely jealous and questions his entire life serving the island. Locke eventually manipulates ben to kill jacob.

Not done yet...

When Locke escorted Ben to be judged he knew exactly where to find the S.M. That is because he was the S.M. Interestingly enough, when Ben went to see him, Locke stayed behind. He stayed behind because he could be two places at once. He could not possess the S.M. and Locke at the exact same time. S.M. disappears and becomes Bens daughter because he cannot be S.M and her at the same time as well. Bens daughter (S.M.) tells Ben not to kill Locke because he needed Lockes body in order to manipulate everyone into believing he is special and great.

Now for the theory that faraday had. He claimed that the explosion would stop everything from ever happening because mankind has free will and therefore can change time and destiny. However faradays theory comes into question when he is killed by his own mother in the past before he was ever born. It was meant to happen, so it did. Faraday did not account for that. Desmond could not stop charlie from dying just as much as faraday could not stop Charlotte from returning to the Island where she dies. The Universe has a way of course correcting itself. This means that what is destined to happen, will happen, no matter HOW it happens. The only thing that can change in time is how it happens. The end result will be the same. So all the bomb could do is make things happen differently. Juliet setting the bomb off is just like the fail safe key desmond turned that sent him to the past for a second time, and he learns he must go to the hatch in the future, it just happened a little differently. Either way he ended up at the island. So I believe that the S.M. monster failed when he has Jacob killed because the blast may send him back to the time when he was trapped in the cabin and jacob would be dead and no one would be on the island. So he would have to possess dead people and manipulate peoples lives all over again in order to have them return to the island and free him. In the END, it is between Jacob and his enemy. Jacob welcomes visitors and his enemy does not. Both love the island but have different ways of protecting it. Ben and Whitmore are the same. Jack and Locke are the same. I do not think Ben, Locke, Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Jin, Sun, or any of the rest of the characters are special in any way. They are great characters we know and love but they can only control how things happen with their free will, they cannot change what will happen. They are just people needed by Jacob and the S.M. The only special character may be Walt, who can appear in more places than one. he was in New York, but somehow gave Locke orders when ben threw him in the ditch.

Finally, the numbers: 4 8 15 16 23 42. I think they mean much more than we know. The hatch was real and the numbers released pressure from the magnetic field that kept the earth in existence. Why those numbers? Why not have an automatic release! Why those numbers! there must be more to it.

It really is a shame that so many lives were Lost. So many of the characters in Lost had a terrible life before arriving at the island. They were desperate to be rescued but deep down they were content with their current life on the island. They finally found stability and people they could love and befriend. So many died for such a silly cause. Ben went too far by killing all of the Dharma initiative and the others went too far by treating the survivors the way they did. The survivors killed many of the others out of fear. "Live together, Die alone." Although the survivors live by this motto, Im not quite sure they understand what that really means. If everyone on the Island could simply live together all the pain and agony would not have ever happened. Maybe they can do things differently a second time around. Lets hope Juliets bomb gives them that chance.


Those are my lost theories and thoughts! I want to meet the writers and cast very bad, because of them I am now LOST! But seriously they are all awesome.

losttime
12-04-2009, 01:10 AM
Ok. So this is why I think the S.M./enemy of Jacob went through with this plan. Throughout all of season 5, the island is traveling through time because Jacks father (dead(S.M.)) told Locke to turn the wheel in order to hide the island. So why would the S.M. tell Locke to do that? Well if they can somehow go back in time, the S.M. can devise a plan to somehow be freed from the cabin Jacob trapped him. So because time is shifting, things are happening that have not already occurred. Locke, Sawyer, Juliet, Farraday, etc. are all flying though time over and over. Locke visited the others during the 50's which was their past, but Locks present. It had not happened for Locke yet, but it was happening in the past. This means Locke could not remember the island from the past when he first arrived there because it had not yet happened in the future. So time is screwed up because the S.M. told Locke to turn the wheel. Locke sees Albert at the plane and for some reason Alpert from the past knows about the current (present) shift in time.

I am under the impression that no one is actually trapped in the Cabin but the Cabin protected jacob by keeping someone or something out, namely MIB/Smokey.

OK so the reason the time travelling was important was because MIB/Smokey needed certain things to occur to make his Loophole come to be.

Locke appears to Alpert before he is born, and tells Alpert he is to be the next Leader and that he was sent by Jacob. Alpert hears this and becomes interested in this person who comes to their camp knowing about jacob.

Also Locke tells Alpert he is going to be born sometime in the future and gies Alpert an exact date and place and for Alpert to go there as we saw in a FB in previous season epi.

The idea of Locke to be the new leader came from Locke and created the whole idea of Locke to ever be the Leader. If it wasnt for Locke going back in time, Richard would not have invested any time in him.

In fact, Alpert visited him on several occasions and still had his doubts, which also indicated to me that Locke was nevr really meant to be the Leader but just made to believe so by MOB/Smokey



Not done yet...

When Locke escorted Ben to be judged he knew exactly where to find the S.M. That is because he was the S.M. Interestingly enough, when Ben went to see him, Locke stayed behind. He stayed behind because he could be two places at once. He could not possess the S.M. and Locke at the exact same time. S.M. disappears and becomes Bens daughter because he cannot be S.M and her at the same time as well. Bens daughter (S.M.) tells Ben not to kill Locke because he needed Lockes body in order to manipulate everyone into believing he is special and great.

I dont think its a matter of possessing the SM since he is the Smoke Monster. But yes. Locke couldnt be there with Ben if he is supposed to be the Smoke Monster judging Ben for killing his daughter. Which was lame to begin with since Ben was obviously devastated from the moment in happened.


Now for the theory that faraday had. He claimed that the explosion would stop everything from ever happening because mankind has free will and therefore can change time and destiny. However faradays theory comes into question when he is killed by his own mother in the past before he was ever born. It was meant to happen, so it did. Faraday did not account for that. Desmond could not stop charlie from dying just as much as faraday could not stop Charlotte from returning to the Island where she dies. The Universe has a way of course correcting itself. This means that what is destined to happen, will happen, no matter HOW it happens. The only thing that can change in time is how it happens. The end result will be the same. So all the bomb could do is make things happen differently. Juliet setting the bomb off is just like the fail safe key desmond turned that sent him to the past for a second time, and he learns he must go to the hatch in the future, it just happened a little differently. Either way he ended up at the island. So I believe that the S.M. monster failed when he has Jacob killed because the blast may send him back to the time when he was trapped in the cabin and jacob would be dead and no one would be on the island. So he would have to possess dead people and manipulate peoples lives all over again in order to have them return to the island and free him. In the END, it is between Jacob and his enemy. Jacob welcomes visitors and his enemy does not. Both love the island but have different ways of protecting it. Ben and Whitmore are the same. Jack and Locke are the same. I do not think Ben, Locke, Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Jin, Sun, or any of the rest of the characters are special in any way. They are great characters we know and love but they can only control how things happen with their free will, they cannot change what will happen. They are just people needed by Jacob and the S.M. The only special character may be Walt, who can appear in more places than one. he was in New York, but somehow gave Locke orders when ben threw him in the ditch.


Faraday was able to die for exactly the reason he gave. They were living in their "present" time. So they could die. If the ywernt backl to where he was a baby than that would be where i think he couldnt die beause that means that everything he did after that point would never have happened and would cause the paradox so often discussed.

he wasnt going back in time o his past but the Island past. i think thats the big difference
.


As I said above though no one is trapped in the Cabin but protected while in there by the ash ring surrounding it.

Wit hregard to the bomb at the Swan station, I am convinced that was the Incident that Dr Chang spoke of and temporarily stopped the charge from building that we saw when they were pushing the button every 108 minutes.

So after the Incident I think we will find the DI having to come up with a system that keeps the charge at bay that we saw and in the event of a "system failurre" that cannot be corrected a fail-safe device would be added but with unpredictable results. So instead of turning this key or activating the device that would occur when the key is turned they would have to continuously discharge the energy every 108 minutes as we saw in season 2.

ahmaji90
12-04-2009, 04:57 PM
I agree with you about Locke creating the idea that he was a leader, but im not too sure someone was being protected in the cabin, they told Locke "help me". they must not like it too much in there. It could be a number of things, S.M. could have switched his spirit with Lockes and locke could be the one trapped in the cabin telling himself from the past to help him. idk..but i think your right about the swan station the episode was called the incident so it may be that.

Biggsteve03
12-16-2009, 01:07 PM
Or maybe Locke did die when Ben shot him and everything that Locke did from there on was the doing of tghe smoke monster!

wildcatmother
02-04-2010, 04:02 PM
Finally, the numbers: 4 8 15 16 23 42. I think they mean much more than we know. The hatch was real and the numbers released pressure from the magnetic field that kept the earth in existence. Why those numbers? Why not have an automatic release! Why those numbers! there must be more to it.

Hi. I'm new to this sort of thing. Hope the quote comes out right...
I have a theory about the numbers. Please be patient..it's not complete...just a thought.

Books of the Bible and basically what they are about. See them as a timeline of the island (of sorts).

4 Numbers- Organization of Theocracy-Laws
8 Ruth -redemption of a kinsman
15 and 16 Exra and Nehimiah- The return of the Jews and the rebuilding of the Temple
23 Isaiah- The History of Nations and a listing of fulfililled and unfulfilled prophecies.
42 Luke- History of Jesus New Covenant

I find it interesting that the first number "4" is the book of Numbers in the Bible..so I just went from there.

Perhaps Jacob will rise again? Perhaps he already has..I think the water was not clear because Jacob was IN IT.

As I said...I'm new. Thanks.

wxbadger
02-04-2010, 07:15 PM
I agree with many of losttime's points.

I think the cabin protected jacob at one time. It has the ash around it, which thus far we've seen is used to keep out Smokie. Ben seems to think Jacob was there, though we now know Ben never talked to Jacob. I believe the ash circle was not broken at that time (when took Locke there). But the ash circle was broken when Ilana's group went there.

Makes sense that Locke started the notion that he was suppose to be the next Leader. But, this was reinforced with Alpert when he asked Jack what he thought, and Jack said something like "don't give up on Locke".

Yes, the MiB must also be Smokie (& fake Locke, Flocke). Flocke definitely disappeared behind a column before Smokie appeared in the statue after Ben (Judas as I think of him) killed Jacob.

I don't agree that the bomb was the incident. The incident was the incident regardless of the bomb or not. I'm wondering why they didn't think of "taking out" the guy (forget his name) who disregarded the Dr's wishes to stop drilling. If they would have stopped drilling, then there would have been no incident (in theory, though it would have happened by WHH/WHAH later anway).

Locke did not die when Ben shot him. If you believe Flocke is MiB & Smokie, then you should believe Christian S is also MiB/Smokie, and Christian & Locke had the scene together, at the bottom of the well/Orhcid station convincing Locke he had to go back, convince all O6 to return, and would have to die to convince them.

TCC is not the case, which I believe ahmaji90 also says above. When you drop a pebble in the pond, you can put things in the way to disrupt the ripples, but the ripples ultimately go around and continue on their destined path.

I like wildcatmother's post about the numbers. As the PTB said last night on Kimmel, there's much more there than revealed thus far. I defintely believe in strong Bible ties here (MiB/Smokie/Flocke = Satan (outcast Angel), Jacob = Jesus/God, Ben = Judas, other characters = other Apostles, the big war coming = Revelations). I also like the idea of Jacob & MiB as the Old Testament twins story of Jacob & Esau. Either way, there are so many Biblical references throughout Lost. Remember Ben's talk with Jack in the church (Lamp Post)?

Since there are multiple PTB (writers/producers) the main plot is probably a potluck of not only Biblical stories/characters, but other things as well. Afterall, this wasn't a finished story/work of art from the start. It evolved, changed over the seasons (oops, sorry WHH/WHAH believers), but hey, though it changed, it still had to have the big destined end now anyway.