Dueling Lockes??

[Dzbabykel]

So I'm not sure if this has been touched on yet (I apologize if it has) but I wanna try and post my theory (rough as it may be this late at night haha).

I posted earlier about the biblical references of Jacob and Esau seen here:

The Jacob and Esau story in the bible is one about betrayal between 2 twin brothers. Jacob had 12 sons (the last born being Benjamin whose mother died while giving childbirth - sound familiar??)

Jacob and Esau's mother had a prophecy while pregnant with them that they were fighting in the womb to be stronger than the other and when they were born they showed to be complete opposites and their father loved Esau more while Rebeccah, their mother, loved Jacob (hmm daddy issues??).

Much later when the boys grew up, their father became blind and wanted to bestow their birthright on the first born son Esau. Their mother hearing this, and loving Jacob more, disguised Jacob as Esau so that HE could receive the birthright and be the "ruler of all nations". When Esau found out about this deception, he was furious. When Esau went to his father before his death, he fell on his knees and asked "Is there nothing left for me?" His father stated to him:

"You will not have the richness of the earth,
The dew from the heaven won't be given to you,
You will have to live by taking,
And you will serve your brother.
But one day you will break free." (HMMMM?!?!)

After that, Esau vowed to one day kill his brother.

Well I got to thinking and, sorry if I sound redudant in posts haha I just never know where to post my theories, I realized this whole story may be a clue to something. Remember when Jack was introduced to the Others and watched as they ritualistically sent bodies of the dead out to the water on a raft?? Well Juliet told Jack that it was so the bodies wouldn't be occupied by spirits.

Well we know that currently Locke's body is outside the temple while Flocke just killed Jacob inside. WHAT IF somehow Jacob's spirit inhabits that of old Locke?? Sounds kinda crazy that there would be TWO Locke's roaming the island but wouldn't that make the ultimate twist.....good vs. evil, black vs. white, etc....everything this show represents. This may be why Illana felt it was so important to bring the body of Locke to the temple, especially when she found out MIB (we think) escaped the cabin. They had to hurry because they knew he had found a loophole and it wouldn't be long before he killed Jacob. This may also explain why Christian's body seems to be inhabited and so forth.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting that this could ALL stem back to the parallels with Jacob and Esau = TWINS?? :eek:

Please give me your thoughts thanks!

[Sticks]

So I'm not sure if this has been touched on yet (I apologize if it has) but I wanna try and post my theory (rough as it may be this late at night haha).

I posted earlier about the biblical references of Jacob and Esau seen here:

The Jacob and Esau story in the bible is one about betrayal between 2 twin brothers. Jacob had 12 sons (the last born being Benjamin whose mother died while giving childbirth - sound familiar??)

Jacob and Esau's mother had a prophecy while pregnant with them that they were fighting in the womb to be stronger than the other and when they were born they showed to be complete opposites and their father loved Esau more while Rebeccah, their mother, loved Jacob (hmm daddy issues??).

Much later when the boys grew up, their father became blind and wanted to bestow their birthright on the first born son Esau. Their mother hearing this, and loving Jacob more, disguised Jacob as Esau so that HE could receive the birthright and be the "ruler of all nations". When Esau found out about this deception, he was furious. When Esau went to his father before his death, he fell on his knees and asked "Is there nothing left for me?" His father stated to him:

"You will not have the richness of the earth,
The dew from the heaven won't be given to you,
You will have to live by taking,
And you will serve your brother.
But one day you will break free." (HMMMM?!?!)

After that, Esau vowed to one day kill his brother.

Well I got to thinking and, sorry if I sound redudant in posts haha I just never know where to post my theories, I realized this whole story may be a clue to something. Remember when Jack was introduced to the Others and watched as they ritualistically sent bodies of the dead out to the water on a raft?? Well Juliet told Jack that it was so the bodies wouldn't be occupied by spirits.

Well we know that currently Locke's body is outside the temple while Flocke just killed Jacob inside. WHAT IF somehow Jacob's spirit inhabits that of old Locke?? Sounds kinda crazy that there would be TWO Locke's roaming the island but wouldn't that make the ultimate twist.....good vs. evil, black vs. white, etc....everything this show represents. This may be why Illana felt it was so important to bring the body of Locke to the temple, especially when she found out MIB (we think) escaped the cabin. They had to hurry because they knew he had found a loophole and it wouldn't be long before he killed Jacob. This may also explain why Christian's body seems to be inhabited and so forth.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting that this could ALL stem back to the parallels with Jacob and Esau = TWINS?? :eek:

Please give me your thoughts thanks!

i LOVE this! such a great correlation... when we first saw jacob and MIB i thought about the story of Jacob and Esau and just never looked into it! good details you brought out! I was also just thinking about the possibility of 2 Lockes last week, rewatching the Incident pt 2 really got my wheels spinning about the possibility that hey, if MIB can inhabit a body, then why couldnt Jacob?! Thats why it was so important as you said to get Lockes body to Jacob... He did afterall ask for Ilanas help. And that was her mission right, so it seems. Deliver John Locke, to WARN? or to be USED? And if Eloise was right and insisted that they had to bring back Locke, maybe shes in cahootz with Jacob too.. knowing both sides perhaps. Just Imagine.... Dueling Lockes?! that would be so Badass and fun to watch, if they did it right! wonder if TPTB are gonna take us there :) Thanks for the thought provoking post!

[Dzbabykel]

i LOVE this! such a great correlation... when we first saw jacob and MIB i thought about the story of Jacob and Esau and just never looked into it! good details you brought out! I was also just thinking about the possibility of 2 Lockes last week, rewatching the Incident pt 2 really got my wheels spinning about the possibility that hey, if MIB can inhabit a body, then why couldnt Jacob?! Thats why it was so important as you said to get Lockes body to Jacob... He did afterall ask for Ilanas help. And that was her mission right, so it seems. Deliver John Locke, to WARN? or to be USED? And if Eloise was right and insisted that they had to bring back Locke, maybe shes in cahootz with Jacob too.. knowing both sides perhaps. Just Imagine.... Dueling Lockes?! that would be so Badass and fun to watch, if they did it right! wonder if TPTB are gonna take us there :) Thanks for the thought provoking post!

Ahhh YOUR RIGHT! I forgot about Eloise saying how it important it was for Locke's body to be brought back, for the sake of mankind or something like that. That totally makes sense. Yah I had posted about Jacob and Esau yeears ago in relation to Ben and went back to read some of my old theories for fun and realized this makes soooo much more sense now with MIB and Jacob. I mean the Lost Supper is a biblical reference and is used to introduce Season 6 so I figured its not a far stretch :p

[burninglotus77]

Light/Dark, White/Black, Science/Fatih, Fate/Freewill, Good/Evil, Locke/Locke, Jack/Locke, Jacob/MIB, Jacob/Esau


I think a great idea for the end of the series would be if we now have two Lockes...

one is the dark/science/fate Locke 'inhabited' by MIB

one is the light/faith/free will Locke 'inhabited' by Jacob


We now have a war of how humanity will end....will the fate/Esau Locke side win and let time continue as it has before with no change, or will the free will/Jacob Locke side win and try to do what ever they can to change the past and hope for a better outcome? I think the final scene would involve Jack being the one who is chosen to make a choice by having to kill one of the Lockes to determine an outcome......but will he choose free will or destiny? We've seen that he already chose to detonate a bomb and kill everyone in his current time, but we don't how it all changes if at all because of his choice (yet). My guess is that they still end up in the same situation, so this time, will he choose differently?

[LincolnEcho06]

Very sound theory and connection. If anything gets repeated, I say it is okay as there are long periods of time between episodes and especially seasons; review is good.

http://lollost815.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/locke-backgammon.jpg

Only time will tell as to what is good and what is evil (a consistent theme throughout LOST represented by a black and white pebble or circular piece; also connected with yin and yang)

http://canadianfermentation.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/yin-yang.jpg
YIN & YANG

Random thought: could someone make a design similar to this with images of JIN & SUN?

[Dzbabykel]

Light/Dark, White/Black, Science/Fatih, Fate/Freewill, Good/Evil, Locke/Locke, Jack/Locke, Jacob/MIB, Jacob/Esau


I think a great idea for the end of the series would be if we now have two Lockes...

one is the dark/science/fate Locke 'inhabited' by MIB

one is the light/faith/free will Locke 'inhabited' by Jacob


I totally agree, I think both MIB and Jacob (wether they both end up inhabiting Locke or not) represent fate vs. free will.

If you compare it again to Esau and Jacob in the bible....Esau was known as a "hunter and man of the field" while Jacob was known as a "simple man and craftsman". Just think its kind of funny in the show that Jacob is making a tapestry while Esau had already fed himself (Jacob asks him if he wants to eat and he says I've already ate...hmm was he hunting??) Anyway I'm looking too much into details but I definitely think its plausible that in the end it will be just as Locke had described the game of backgammon to Walt...

Locke: Backgammon is the oldest game in the world. Archaeologists found sets when they excavated the ruins of ancient Mesopotamia. Five thousand years old. That's older than Jesus Christ.

Walt: Did they have dice and stuff?

Locke: [nods] But their dice weren't made of plastic. Their dice were made of bones.

Walt: Cool.

Locke: Two players. Two sides. One is light. One is dark. Walt... do you wanna know a secret?

[After Sawyer shoots the polar bear]

Kate: Where did that come from?

Locke never was able to delve into his secret....what do you think his secret could be??

EDIT: I ALSO want to add now that I've been thinking about it that this could precisely be the reason that Richard told Locke he HAD to die in order to save everyone. I think Jacob (and since Richard seems to be working for him) all knew that somehow Nemesis was going to find a loophole through Locke BUT they needed his body so that Jacob could have HIS loophole and fight back. Man now I have soo many ideas....

[Dzbabykel]

So just a lil update to my theory...I was just watchin "Two For the Road" from Season 2 and Sawyer is sitting there reading a manuscript for the book "The Bad Twin".....whaaaa??? :eek: I remember seeing that before but it didn't register to me until now, especially since I came up with my theory of 2 Locke's (aka twins) before I remembered that. I never realized how many "twin" references there are in this show let alone saying the "bad" twin. God I love this show! :p

[krakup]

So just a lil update to my theory...I was just watchin "Two For the Road" from Season 2 and Sawyer is sitting there reading a manuscript for the book "The Bad Twin".....whaaaa??? :eek: I remember seeing that before but it didn't register to me until now, especially since I came up with my theory of 2 Locke's (aka twins) before I remembered that. I never realized how many "twin" references there are in this show let alone saying the "bad" twin. God I love this show! :p

yep it's going to be insane if there are two lockes

[Dzbabykel]

yep it's going to be insane if there are two lockes

Yeah when I first thought of that I thought it was stupid, but when realized that maybe thats why they HAD to bring the body to the temple was perhaps so Jacob could have his loophole against his nemesis.....and with the whole "light/dark" and "good/evil" themes throughout the show, I think it's definitely plausible!

[krakup]

Yeah when I first thought of that I thought it was stupid, but when realized that maybe thats why they HAD to bring the body to the temple was perhaps so Jacob could have his loophole against his nemesis.....and with the whole "light/dark" and "good/evil" themes throughout the show, I think it's definitely plausible!

they sure went to a lot of trouble getting that corpse back on the island. i agree two lockes is definitely plausible

[Dzbabykel]

It's kinda creepy too, in reading the synopsis and summary of the Bad Twin referenced in Lost, the twins are "mirror twins" meaning that one is lefty while the other is righty. That might be something to watch....perhaps Flocke uses his left while Locke used his right? I dunno...its almost midnight and I'm up thinking about Lost...*sigh* :rolleyes:

[krakup]

It's kinda creepy too, in reading the synopsis and summary of the Bad Twin referenced in Lost, the twins are "mirror twins" meaning that one is lefty while the other is righty. That might be something to watch....perhaps Flocke uses his left while Locke used his right? I dunno...its almost midnight and I'm up thinking about Lost...*sigh* :rolleyes:

haha you have the bug, just give in to it :)

[Dzbabykel]

haha you have the bug, just give in to it :)

Haha uhh I know.....I surrender :rolleyes:

[Caraway]

So just a lil update to my theory...I was just watchin "Two For the Road" from Season 2 and Sawyer is sitting there reading a manuscript for the book "The Bad Twin".....whaaaa??? :eek: I remember seeing that before but it didn't register to me until now, especially since I came up with my theory of 2 Locke's (aka twins) before I remembered that. I never realized how many "twin" references there are in this show let alone saying the "bad" twin. God I love this show! :p

dam, good find. i think youre really on to something here. wish i had more time to watch all the old seasons before feb 2nd but its now 11 days away. a lil late now. after reading these posts im starting to realize that assuming bringing locke's body back to the island was the loophole might be too simple to be true. and what is up with ilana and her people? The scene where jacob visits her in the hospital is very mysterious. where was she? when was she? it seemed like Ilana knew who he was. if thats true then how? whos on whose side? so many questions!

[jackchick]

Nice DZ! It is a complete thought/theory with solid premise. Way to put it out there.:)

[Dzbabykel]

dam, good find. i think youre really on to something here. wish i had more time to watch all the old seasons before feb 2nd but its now 11 days away. a lil late now. after reading these posts im starting to realize that assuming bringing locke's body back to the island was the loophole might be too simple to be true. and what is up with ilana and her people? The scene where jacob visits her in the hospital is very mysterious. where was she? when was she? it seemed like Ilana knew who he was. if thats true then how? whos on whose side? so many questions!

Nice DZ! It is a complete thought/theory with solid premise. Way to put it out there.:)

Ahh seriously thanks guys! I'm glad someone read it! Haha its hard when none of your friends watch Lost so I'm glad I have other people to share theories with, you guys rock!! :D

[Dzbabykel]

To add to this, I got to thinking about how Walt plays a role in this because he TOO has been told he's special and him and Locke seem to have a strong bond. Then I remembered, when Locke (Jeremy Bentham) went to see Walt before he killed himself and went back to the island, Walt told him that he had been having dreams about him....he says "You were on the Island, wearing a suit, and there are people all around you. They wanted to hurt you, John."

I've heard other theories say that this could potentially be Walt telling us the finale scene in Lost but to go along with my theory of 2 Lockes, I think this could be when Jacob inhabits "dead" Locke in the coffin (since he's wearing a suit) and people don't know who is "good" or who is "bad", which could explain why people want to kill him.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, just thinkin aloud again :p

[3DSmokie]

To add to this, I got to thinking about how Walt plays a role in this because he TOO has been told he's special and him and Locke seem to have a strong bond. Then I remembered, when Locke (Jeremy Bentham) went to see Walt before he killed himself and went back to the island, Walt told him that he had been having dreams about him....he says "You were on the Island, wearing a suit, and there are people all around you. They wanted to hurt you, John."

I've heard other theories say that this could potentially be Walt telling us the finale scene in Lost but to go along with my theory of 2 Lockes, I think this could be when Jacob inhabits "dead" Locke in the coffin (since he's wearing a suit) and people don't know who is "good" or who is "bad", which could explain why people want to kill him.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, just thinkin aloud again :p

Makes perfect sense and I really dig it with a shovel! So, in your theory, Walt is seeing the future and in that future Jacob and MIB are using two different versions of Locke as their human "interface" for their war. Thats pretty freaking coo! Still gotta say I still hope it is not as clear cut as "Jacob is good, MIB is bad". But however that end of it shakes out I really like the spin on the Walt "flash"

Holy crap the premier is tomorrow :eek:

[Dzbabykel]

Makes perfect sense and I really dig it with a shovel! So, in your theory, Walt is seeing the future and in that future Jacob and MIB are using two different versions of Locke as their human "interface" for their war. Thats pretty freaking coo! Still gotta say I still hope it is not as clear cut as "Jacob is good, MIB is bad". But however that end of it shakes out I really like the spin on the Walt "flash"

Holy crap the premier is tomorrow :eek:

Thanks I'm glad you see what I'm saying and I definitely don't think "Jacob = good" and "MIB = bad" is clear cut....I wouldn't be surprised if that was reversed....I just really feel like with all the twin references in the show, with the importance of Locke's dead body being at the temple with Flocke inside, I just think the potential is there to see a duel between good Locke and bad Locke, whoever they represent :D

[wxbadger]

I'm very new to the forum, but have been watching (rewatching) Lost since the beginning. And as I stated elsewhere, I'm no theologian...so I'm glad I came across this thread of the Bible's twin Jacob & Esau story. Has more parallels than just my theory of Good vs Evil, God/Jesus vs Satan. (MiB = Satan, Jacob = Jesus, Ben = Judas, other Lost chars = other Apostles, the big war coming = Revelations. But, I'm not convinced there will be 2 Lockes running around, battling each other (kind of silly to me). Remember the Star Trek episode with the 2 guys, 1 was half black/half white, the other was half white/half black...ridiculous, looked the same, just reversed/mirror image...they fought each other, couldn't really tell who was who...

[3DSmokie]

Thanks I'm glad you see what I'm saying and I definitely don't think "Jacob = good" and "MIB = bad" is clear cut....I wouldn't be surprised if that was reversed....I just really feel like with all the twin references in the show, with the importance of Locke's dead body being at the temple with Flocke inside, I just think the potential is there to see a duel between good Locke and bad Locke, whoever they represent :D

what do you think about a duel between Flocke and Fsayid? Seems to be a creeping idea around here so I figured I would get your take on it :eek:

[Dzbabykel]

what do you think about a duel between Flocke and Fsayid? Seems to be a creeping idea around here so I figured I would get your take on it :eek:

Good question but IMO Sayid isn't inhabited by MIB but that its something else, whatever this "darkness" is they're referring to. Haha I still hold true to my theory, I would love to see if it came true! :p

[it's the end of the world]

Can someone please tell me where the locke body came from for whoever it was that killed jacob? If there is one in the coffin, where did the other one come from?

[krakup]

Can someone please tell me where the locke body came from for whoever it was that killed jacob? If there is one in the coffin, where did the other one come from?

best i have is it is a manifestation of smokey, same as MIB is , same as yemi was etc etc etc

[Dzbabykel]

Can someone please tell me where the locke body came from for whoever it was that killed jacob? If there is one in the coffin, where did the other one come from?

Yeah that seems to be the big question I guess....same with Christian...I mean his body has never been found, perhaps its still lying somewhere around the island....or maybe not?

[Gettingafixonlost]

Hey Dzbaby!! I totally missed this post back in January. I'm lovin' the idea of two Lockes. When Locke changed out of his suit and into his "island" clothes I thought....What did Walt's dream mean now?..... he is no longer in a suit and it seemed important or Walt wouldn't have said it.
I had completely forgot about that 'til now and your idea makes complete sence!!

[losttime]

If Locke's are going to duel it out I predict Locke is going to win.

Go ahead. I dare anyone to challenge me on this:D

[Gettingafixonlost]

If Locke's are going to duel it out I predict Locke is going to win.

Go ahead. I dare anyone to challenge me on this:D

Hahaha!! I think this could very well be the one thing everyone would agree on if it did come down to that:D

[seeknay2012]

TRY THIS ON FOR SIZE....

Jacob and "Smokey" (MIB) are GODS from ancient times......Humans actually built the temples on the Island to worship THEM. They have been at eachother's throats for a LONG time, trying to out duel eachother in a GOOD vs BAD power struggle.

WOW !!!! I can't believe how close you guys are to exactly what I have been thinking all along. For clearity I think you must do a Google search on the story of "Enlil and Enki". These were the offspring of A God known as Anu. Guess what???? They originated from another planet known to the Sumerians as Nibiru. They were both left here on Earth until the planets return which is every 3,600 years. Jacob (Enlil) tells Smokie (Enki): "They are coming". BINGO !!!!! I am serious about this. Please read the account....Google Search "NIBIRU". Please post your thought after you check it out. I believe the writers are taking a WHOLE lot from this story that has been recorded by the Sumerians on tablets that were recently found and translated.

[krakup]

If Locke's are going to duel it out I predict Locke is going to win.

Go ahead. I dare anyone to challenge me on this:D

rofl , seriously though, i hope he gets to keep his legs

[onlykindalost]

If Locke's are going to duel it out I predict Locke is going to win.

Go ahead. I dare anyone to challenge me on this:D

Scene from S6 Episode 17:
(As the 2 Locke's square off for their final confrontation, Sun & Frank look on in horror)

SUN: I don't think that I understand.

FRANK: Seriously, uh, Johns, I don't think either of you should stab, uh, yourself with that hunting knife!

LOCKES(Simultaneously): Don't tell us what we can't do!

[Dzbabykel]

If Locke's are going to duel it out I predict Locke is going to win.

Go ahead. I dare anyone to challenge me on this:D

I go with Locke too!!! Although Flocke is pretty badass when it comes to whipping out smokey and knocking Richard to the ground after snapping him in the throat....it'll be a close call!! ;) :p

[Dzbabykel]

Scene from S6 Episode 17:
(As the 2 Locke's square off for their final confrontation, Sun & Frank look on in horror)

SUN: I don't think that I understand.

FRANK: Seriously, uh, Johns, I don't think either of you should stab, uh, yourself with that hunting knife!

LOCKES(Simultaneously): Don't tell us what we can't do!

HAHAHAHAHHA! OMG that's hilarious :p