Thought - "You are not supposed to raise him"

[XmasDVD]

Saw a rerun tonight of the episode where Hurley is in the mental institution and Jack comes to visit him. Hurley tells him Charlie gave a message "You are not supposed to raise him"

We all assumed it meant that Jack/Kate were not supposed to raise Aaron - I think it means they (the Losties) are not supposed to raise Locke (from the dead) - as we found out at the end of last season, it was a bad choice.

Thoughts?

[Unbridled Pageantry]

Saw a rerun tonight of the episode where Hurley is in the mental institution and Jack comes to visit him. Hurley tells him Charlie gave a message "You are not supposed to raise him"

We all assumed it meant that Jack/Kate were not supposed to raise Aaron - I think it means they (the Losties) are not supposed to raise Locke (from the dead) - as we found out at the end of last season, it was a bad choice.

Thoughts?

Could very well be. It makes sense in both situations, it's just ashame Charlie was so vague.

[JfromtheD]

I thought the same thing about Claire telling Kate, "don't you dare bring him back."

[islander]

Claire's warning to Kate seems to have a greater possibility to have a dual meeting to me than Charlie's warning to Jack. Charlie was attached to Aaron, and Jack wasn't 'raising' Locke, he was just returning him. Jack had no idea bringing Locke back would 'raise' him so Jack wouldn't understand Charlie's warning. Had Charlie's warning been "Jack don't bring him back", I'd be more inclided to think Cahrlie could have been talking about Locke.

[boutte]

Claire's warning to Kate seems to have a greater possibility to have a dual meeting to me than Charlie's warning to Jack. Charlie was attached to Aaron, and Jack wasn't 'raising' Locke, he was just returning him. Jack had no idea bringing Locke back would 'raise' him so Jack wouldn't understand Charlie's warning. Had Charlie's warning been "Jack don't bring him back", I'd be more inclided to think Cahrlie could have been talking about Locke.

Yeah, what he said.^

[Here'sLOCKEing at you,Kid]

Claire's warning to Kate seems to have a greater possibility to have a dual meeting to me than Charlie's warning to Jack. Charlie was attached to Aaron, and Jack wasn't 'raising' Locke, he was just returning him. Jack had no idea bringing Locke back would 'raise' him so Jack wouldn't understand Charlie's warning. Had Charlie's warning been "Jack don't bring him back", I'd be more inclided to think Cahrlie could have been talking about Locke.

what he said.
Also, I'm thinking that in S1, the psychic specifically told Claire she was to raise her baby herself. So I'm not really thinking it would change later to mean a connection to John. imo.

[Caraway]

I remember reading about this somewhere a while back. This seems like something that's meant to be caught and discussed and will be left open ended. the meaning of charlie and claire's warnings probably won't be directly addressed and confirmed and i believe the key is in the wording. there are a number of different ways these warnings could have been worded to acheive the same presumed meaning. For instance...

"you're not supposed to raise him" could also have been worded 'you're not supposed to be his parents' or 'he's supposed to be raised by someone else'

"don't bring him back" could instead have been worded 'don't return him to the island.'

but 'from the dead' could be added to the end of both of them to change the whole meaning... you're not supposed to raise him from the dead. don't bring him back from the dead. seems to fit too well to be coincidence.

[spartygirl]

Well...Im not sure.. I just watched that episode and was watching Jacks reaction when Hurley told him that...he was miffed for sure...and seemed to know exactly what Hurley meant...I was questioning what exactly Charlie meant and first thought is Aaron...but of course I always am looking for the not-so-obvious..so thought maybe it was Locke he was talking about...IDK....but hurley made remark after Jack was talking about Kate and reading to Aaron...ok..Im rambling now..

[beachblinkette]

Could go either way. But it is intriguing because we now know it looks like it was a risky idea to bring John back to the island. Unless killing Jacob was a good thing which we don't exactly know yet. Hurley also said to Jack--"We're all dead." Yours was a very good catch IMO.

[LissaMarie]

Could go either way. But it is intriguing because we now know it looks like it was a risky idea to bring John back to the island. Unless killing Jacob was a good thing which we don't exactly know yet. Hurley also said to Jack--"We're all dead." Yours was a very good catch IMO.

I think this complicates the notion that Christian is MIB or on MIB's side as some have speculated. Claire said, "I'm with him" when John saw her and Christian in the cabin, right? I always assumed whatever she meant when she said, "don't bring him back" was a message from Christian's camp. If Christian is MIB or on MIB's side, then that just doesn't make sense. They would want Locke tobe raised and to be brought back. That's what I'm thinking anyway.

[losttime]

I am leaning more toward it referring to Aaron.

Claire is sitting there in the Aarons room and she said "Dont bring him back"

I dont think she was referring to Locke when she was in the the room with Aaron.

Also based on hurleys conversation with jack about not being with Kate and then "raising him"

I just dont think it was referring to Locke but who knows.

[krakup]

I am leaning more toward it referring to Aaron.

Claire is sitting there in the Aarons room and she said "Dont bring him back"

I dont think she was referring to Locke when she was in the the room with Aaron.

Also based on hurleys conversation with jack about not being with Kate and then "raising him"

I just dont think it was referring to Locke but who knows.

yeah it has been a reoccurring theme, claire having to raise her baby. wonder how that is all going to pan out

[beachblinkette]

Food for thought.....Why would Claire think that Kate would take Aaron back to that dangerous island? Did Kate EVER see lots happy little kids there? Would any sane person think it was a great place for kids? And what about all of those deaths that Kate knows happened there.

Of course, if Claire had the power to see the past and the future, she would know that Kate had done some pretty stupid and dangerous things. Her own childhood BFF was killed when she tried to escape the police. Males have NOT had a long and happy life around Kate.

Kids on the island? The island isn't hospitable to kids,. Even Walt was kidnapped. We still don't know exactly why the children were kidnapped
by the others. Or why they took Walt and tested him and then were willing to release him with Michael.

Jacob told Locke that "I am sorry this happened to you." Fake? MIB told Jacob that he had already eaten. Fake? Jacob spoke to Jin and Sun and wished them happiness. Fake? Jacob asked directions and help from Sayid--Fake! Jacob encouraged Hurley by giving him a good luck talisman--Charlie's guitar--so he would feel it his duty to go back to the island. Fake? If Jacob was really sorry, why didn't he prevent Locke from getting hurt in the first place? He just sat there reading a book, waiting for Locke to fall out of the building and die.

The Losties went through hell trying to get OFF the island the first time. Why would Kate risk taking Aaron back to a redux of that? so, I like thinking that "don't you dare take him back" does refer to Locke who is a sort of evil doppleganger just like the ones Stephen King likes to use in his books.

[Here'sLOCKEing at you,Kid]

well thought out, as usual, Beach. (and hi, btw:) )
a couple thoughts: No one except "vision of Claire" told her Aaron didn't have to go back. Far as we know, when they kept saying "everyone" or "all of you" that would imply Aaron, no?
Anyway, I figured Kate heeded "Claire's" warning and that's why she left him on the mainland, while going back to find Claire.

I didn't get the impression that was really Claire in Aaron's room, though...
so .... ??

[losttime]

Food for thought.....Why would Claire think that Kate would take Aaron back to that dangerous island? Did Kate EVER see lots happy little kids there? Would any sane person think it was a great place for kids? And what about all of those deaths that Kate knows happened there.

Of course, if Claire had the power to see the past and the future, she would know that Kate had done some pretty stupid and dangerous things. Her own childhood BFF was killed when she tried to escape the police. Males have NOT had a long and happy life around Kate.

Kids on the island? The island isn't hospitable to kids,. Even Walt was kidnapped. We still don't know exactly why the children were kidnapped
by the others. Or why they took Walt and tested him and then were willing to release him with Michael.

Jacob told Locke that "I am sorry this happened to you." Fake? MIB told Jacob that he had already eaten. Fake? Jacob spoke to Jin and Sun and wished them happiness. Fake? Jacob asked directions and help from Sayid--Fake! Jacob encouraged Hurley by giving him a good luck talisman--Charlie's guitar--so he would feel it his duty to go back to the island. Fake? If Jacob was really sorry, why didn't he prevent Locke from getting hurt in the first place? He just sat there reading a book, waiting for Locke to fall out of the building and die.

The Losties went through hell trying to get OFF the island the first time. Why would Kate risk taking Aaron back to a redux of that? so, I like thinking that "don't you dare take him back" does refer to Locke who is a sort of evil doppleganger just like the ones Stephen King likes to use in his books.

Well sinec i dont think it was jacob visiting them I say yes it was "fake".

But the Island was only bad for Walt whe nthe Others got a hold of him.

maybe Claire knows about this coming "war" and thats why she doesnt want Aaron going.

I do think she has joined the anti-jacob team and doesnt even know it yet. And I dont think tha twas Claire who told Kate not to bring Aaron back

Just like the phone call she received before heasring noise from Aarons room.

It was said backwards so I am thinking this wasnt from a "human" sort but Smokey as well.

[Dzbabykel]

I thought the same thing about Claire telling Kate, "don't you dare bring him back."

This exactly what I thought too, she makes it seem like she's talking about Aaron but I've always just had the theory that it was Locke.

Could go either way. But it is intriguing because we now know it looks like it was a risky idea to bring John back to the island. Unless killing Jacob was a good thing which we don't exactly know yet. Hurley also said to Jack--"We're all dead." Yours was a very good catch IMO.

It seems to me that it was important to bring Locke's body back, not because Nemesis inhabited him but because it looks like his body will serve a greater purpose to actually fight back against "bad Locke"....that just my theory though :p

[ortrules]

If Claire and/or Charlie were referring to Locke when they spoke with Kate and Jack, then their incredibly cryptic message was a complete fail.

I think they were both referring to Aaron. However, they weren't saying "don't bring Aaron back because he's not safe on the island." They were really saying "don't bring Aaron back because he's a threat to Nemesis."

For those who believe that Nemesis/Smokie has taken the form of Christian, then consider the fact that it was Christian who told Claire to leave Aaron behind, which resulted in Aaron being rescued and taken off the island. Could it be that Aaron actually poses some threat to Nemesis? A similar threat that the psychic Claire visited foresaw when he gave the ominous warning perhaps? I think so. I think that for some reason, Nemesis needed Aaron to leave or felt threatened by what Aaron would become. Perhaps Aaron is the true leader of the Others and is the person we all thought Locke was destined to become. So as Christian, he convinces Claire to leave Aaron behind - and then off the island he, as Claire and Charlie respectively, gives warning to Kate and Jack not to bring him back.

[Dzbabykel]

If Claire and/or Charlie were referring to Locke when they spoke with Kate and Jack, then their incredibly cryptic message was a complete fail.

I think they were both referring to Aaron. However, they weren't saying "don't bring Aaron back because he's not safe on the island." They were really saying "don't bring Aaron back because he's a threat to Nemesis."

For those who believe that Nemesis/Smokie has taken the form of Christian, then consider the fact that it was Christian who told Claire to leave Aaron behind, which resulted in Aaron being rescued and taken off the island. Could it be that Aaron actually poses some threat to Nemesis? A similar threat that the psychic Claire visited foresaw when he gave the ominous warning perhaps? I think so. I think that for some reason, Nemesis needed Aaron to leave or felt threatened by what Aaron would become. Perhaps Aaron is the true leader of the Others and is the person we all thought Locke was destined to become. So as Christian, he convinces Claire to leave Aaron behind - and then off the island he, as Claire and Charlie respectively, gives warning to Kate and Jack not to bring him back.

IF Aaron does pose some sort of threat to Nemesis, that could also be why babies could not be born on the island.....speaking of, was that ever answered??

[beachblinkette]

well thought out, as usual, Beach. (and hi, btw:) )
a couple thoughts: No one except "vision of Claire" told her Aaron didn't have to go back. Far as we know, when they kept saying "everyone" or "all of you" that would imply Aaron, no?
Anyway, I figured Kate heeded "Claire's" warning and that's why she left him on the mainland, while going back to find Claire.

I didn't get the impression that was really Claire in Aaron's room, though...
so .... ??
GReetings to you, too Lockeing!:D
If it was Claire, did she touch Aaron? If she didn't touch him then maybe it was Jacob or Smokie or someone else disguised as Claire. Usually there is a smoke alarm in a child's room. If it was Smokie wouldn't the alarm have gone off? Odd thought: If Aaron had awakened he wouldn't have remembered Claire as his mom because he was just a baby when she disappeared. Would Claire have been able to hold or touch him in the form she was in? Remember the island black horse? Was Kate able to touch the horse? I think she was. I know some of this is just more rambling thoughts, but one question always seems to lead to another. LOL!!

[beachblinkette]

And has anyone ever thought of another hidden reason why Widmore cannot return to the island? An island "possessed" that he thinks of as "his island?" Does the reason he wanted Ben dead have a lot more to do with what happened to Locke when he returned the island?

Widmore sent the freighter to capture Ben or kill him. Widmore knows and used to love Ellie. Why didn't Ellie help him? Who was she really helping in all those lamppost shenanigans?

Widmore has some problem, deep deep problem, that keeps him from returning to claim "his' island. Is that indicative of what could happen to Widmore? Widmore has used "pawns" to try to get the island back---but why? He sent Keamy and crew and they all died. Ben killed Keamy, Michael and the crew of the freighter. Keamy seemed an awful lot like the "possessed" French men who tried to kill Rousseau. He sent Desmond and Des almost died from the fight with Kelvin and again when Ben shot him. He "saved" Locke and he died. Ben strangled him. He used Abaddon and he was killed maybe by Ben or another agent of him. He probably even sent Helen to Locke and she later died. if Widmore sent the undercover Narc guy, we don't know if Locke shot him or not. Locke let Boone climb up to the plane and he died. Locke stabbed Naomi and she died. Locke got Sawyer to kill for him, too. Locke took a lot of the Losties away from the main group, along with Ben, then Carl, Rousseau, Claire and Alex died.

One of the first things Locke did after they crashed, was to hunt and kill a wild boar. Hmmm. I read that wild boars do not attack if given a way of escape. Hmmmm. Locke likes to kill and he likes to play games. Why is he pictured in the Swan mural with one black and one white eye? "Don't tell me what I can't do!" may be just another way of saying "I will find a loophole...!! and when I do......"

[Jelena]

If Claire and/or Charlie were referring to Locke when they spoke with Kate and Jack, then their incredibly cryptic message was a complete fail.

I think they were both referring to Aaron. However, they weren't saying "don't bring Aaron back because he's not safe on the island." They were really saying "don't bring Aaron back because he's a threat to Nemesis."

For those who believe that Nemesis/Smokie has taken the form of Christian, then consider the fact that it was Christian who told Claire to leave Aaron behind, which resulted in Aaron being rescued and taken off the island. Could it be that Aaron actually poses some threat to Nemesis? A similar threat that the psychic Claire visited foresaw when he gave the ominous warning perhaps? I think so. I think that for some reason, Nemesis needed Aaron to leave or felt threatened by what Aaron would become. Perhaps Aaron is the true leader of the Others and is the person we all thought Locke was destined to become. So as Christian, he convinces Claire to leave Aaron behind - and then off the island he, as Claire and Charlie respectively, gives warning to Kate and Jack not to bring him back.

I really like the way you're thinking Ort.
Just to add my two cents, I too think Claire and Charlie were referring to Aaron. There is no need for tptb to make a puzzle out of this, as they will never address it. Like Lockeing said, Eloise kept saying that ALL of them need to return, which is why both Charlie and Claire, both of whom were very attached to Aaron, made sure that the boy didn't come with them on Ajira.

[jackchick]

OK mind is humming along nicely. Just thought that since Jacob raised Christian for his bidding and may even be Jacob in Christian's body, MIB has figured he can do the same with John's body after Ben did the dirty deed. Therein being the loophole.

But I think claires warning was about Aaron and we all know the shrink was a fruitcake who said she had to raise the baby herself. I just can't take his word. Didn't know his daughter was drowning or that she was still alive at the autoposy. Just can't get onboard with anything there. But I do think Hurley's cryptive remarks could be construed either way for aaron or John's body. But the context seems fitting to aaron but whose messanger is charlie anyways!!

[Caraway]

One of the first things Locke did after they crashed, was to hunt and kill a wild boar. Hmmm. I read that wild boars do not attack if given a way of escape. Hmmmm. Locke likes to kill and he likes to play games. Why is he pictured in the Swan mural with one black and one white eye? "Don't tell me what I can't do!" may be just another way of saying "I will find a loophole...!! and when I do......"

You make some interesting points. However, i seriously do not buy into the theory that the whole time locke was on the island he was MiB. Granted i havent rewatched the early seasons after watching season 5 so i won't completely dismiss the theory until then. I just feel like throughout the series we have seen a genuine evolution in locke and this wouldn't be the case if it was this evil MiB guy inhabiting his body the whole time, would it? Why would he need to learn the secrets of the island and go through the trials and tribulations of faith if he was inhabited by a dude who by all accounts had been on the island for a very long time and whose motives were focused completely on bringing jacob down. Idk i just feel like its looking too far into things to think the loophole wasn't inhabiting Locke after his dead body was brought back to the island, and Locke was never actually himself ever since season one episode one. Again, i don't want to completely dismiss it because i believe anything is possible with this show. Who knows? maybe that will end up being one of the big twists in the end... as i type this im doubting my own reasoning... and ranting.