What do you thinks up with the time-travel now?

[chester]

Just interested in what people think now we've seen the first ep of season 6.

Fixed time:
In a universe with a single timeline, all events that occur at every point in history (past, present and future) must not only be self-consistent, but immutable. A time traveler moving in the past is simply acting out a role; they cannot change anything that would alter the chain of events that eventually lead to their decision to go back in time. Every action that occurs was predestined to occur.

Eg: Jack's plan to destroy the Swan, thereby causing Flight 815 never to crash on the island is what always happened. Instead of causing change, Jack simply carried out the role he was destined to always do - cause the incident.

Multiple Universes:
Allows that every probable outcome of any event spawns a new universe with its own timeline, and that a time traveler simply moves up and down the timelines, taking different branches along the way. A time traveler moves from the present back in time to undo a great injustice. They succeed and return to the present, however, are they really returning to "their" present?

Eg: Jack's plan to destroy the Swan is successful and a new, second universe is created. In one universe, Flight 815 still crashed on the island, causing all the events as we have seen them to happen. But in the second universe, Flight 815 successfully lands in LA.

Updateable Universe:
States that the universe's timeline acts more like a record head on a VCR; jumping forward in time allows all events in the universe to play out as if the traveler were not there, and jumping backwards "overwrites" any events that occurred in between. The theory allows for free will in every timeline, and multiple timeline rewrites are allowed to occur, but all events in every timeline adjustment must be causally self-consistent or a "time loop" will occur.

Eg: Jack's plan to destroy the Swan is successful and history is rewritten. Flight 815 lands in LA, and everything that happened on the island no longer happens on the island.

[rachelskid]

i don't even know, really so i have to go with the obvious, particularly since that seems to be tptb's M.O. now - obvious answers.

i mean, the original story seems fixed, and actually the new story does too upon first impression. but there are two of them....

what do you think? been waiting to hear!! :D

did you like the epis? you weren't spoiled right?

[Pung]

I am starting to think that it will never be solved. With the latest interview with TPTB, I think they are being more ambiguous than ever and are basically saying that we will get some sort of answer later in the season.

They wont commit to saying the flashsideways are alternate realities, but they also wont say its a "what-if" scenario either. I just hope it makes sense, when it all come down. but it is really making me mad because I dont think we will get a black & white answer to it.

[losttime]

I am thinking that what we saw was the end result of the events of 2004 after the turn of the fail safe key. In a FB I think we will see the station needing to be built as a result of what Juliet does but with the new protocol as Chang spoke of

I think Juliet did detonate the bomb and instantaneously the Losties in 1977 time skip to 2007 so we are seeing the end result of Desmond turning the key.

Richard said he watched them all die. I believed it was because they disappeared from time skipping and he thought they were obliterated in the explosion.


So I think nothing was changed and the events we saw the losties in, in 1977 happened before the events of 2004 regardless of when the Losties or th audience think the events occurred, namely after 2004

[Brother Desmond]

I voted for the Multiple Universes option on the last poll and I'm going to stick with it on this one.

I do not think we have been dealing with multiple universes for the entire show, however. I think a certain event (most likely Juliet's actions under the Swan in 1997, but not definitely) caused this second universe or timeline.

[chester]

i don't even know, really so i have to go with the obvious, particularly since that seems to be tptb's M.O. now - obvious answers.

i mean, the original story seems fixed, and actually the new story does too upon first impression. but there are two of them....

what do you think? been waiting to hear!! :D

did you like the epis? you weren't spoiled right?

i don't know. I would be confidently sticking with the updateable universe if that bloody flight attendent wasn't there. Can't get my head around that.

The fixed timeline option is supposed to be for those who believe in just one timeline, that never changes. Weve seen either a change in the timeline, or a new timeline though.

I guess with what we saw in the first ep, Multiple universes seems to be the only one that doesn't have any points against it. Apart from story-wise. If they are just showing us a separate universe that was created when they exploded the bomb, and they continue in the other universe, then this should also be theoreticall extended so that the same should be imagined to happen for every event that could go more than one way. There would be a fixed multiverse that contains every single possible course of events that could ever happen. And we have just seen segments of two of them.

I'm very impressed, if somewhat annoyed, that they have been able to answer the question of whether or not they succeeded in changing the past by detonating the bomb, while at the same time managing to avoid anwering that question.

[rachelskid]

yeah, well our basic information seems to be this:

juliette exploded the bomb. and this is the incident that chang spoke of. it is, as miles, said what caused the swan to be built.
the losties flashed to 2007. that likely why richard said he saw them die. there were other casualties as well i am sure. nothing has changed. whh.

also, we have a world where presumably the losties never came to the island, never time traveled, never caused the incident. Radz drilled, hit em pocket, the island is underwater, and dharma was there because we see the barracks and we see the shark. dharma may have been the last people on the island before the drilling ended it all.

now, the question is: did jughead make it so that the second reality was created, or was that reality always there? if jughead did it, then it makes little sense paradoxically to me right now.

[chester]

yeah, well our basic information seems to be this:

juliette exploded the bomb. and this is the incident that chang spoke of. it is, as miles, said what caused the swan to be built.
the losties flashed to 2007. that likely why richard said he saw them die. there were other casualties as well i am sure. nothing has changed. whh.

I don't think Juliette detonating the bomb, caused 'the incident' as it happened before the plane crashed. I think it made a new incident that was more like Des's failsafe key turning event. I think whatever changes were made by the losties in the past, were immediately realised in the future as soon as they blooped off the plane. So that we have been watching the changed reality ever since Ajira landed on the island.

[rachelskid]

i don't know. I would be confidently sticking with the updateable universe if that bloody flight attendent wasn't there. Can't get my head around that.

The fixed timeline option is supposed to be for those who believe in just one timeline, that never changes. Weve seen either a change in the timeline, or a new timeline though.

I guess with what we saw in the first ep, Multiple universes seems to be the only one that doesn't have any points against it. Apart from story-wise. If they are just showing us a separate universe that was created when they exploded the bomb, and they continue in the other universe, then this should also be theoreticall extended so that the same should be imagined to happen for every event that could go more than one way. There would be a fixed multiverse that contains every single possible course of events that could ever happen. And we have just seen segments of two of them.

I'm very impressed, if somewhat annoyed, that they have been able to answer the question of whether or not they succeeded in changing the past by detonating the bomb, while at the same time managing to avoid anwering that question.

read this, if you have not already: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

special Q&A with darlton.

weird that they had to do a special q&a to calm the audience after season premier.

whether jughead created this is one of the big mysteries of this season. i am also impressed but not surprised. this debate will rage onward. :D i, however, am not as strong in my convictions any longer. not that i do not believe WHH, its just as i have recently began to suspect, i think we are asking the wrong questions. we have been narrowly focused on time travel as the cause, the catalyst. but, not so sure that it even matters anymore. and its no surprise that we have been unable to define the concepts we argue about.

i mean what kind of change are we talking? macro or micro? which part is destiny? that events will occur exactly the same or that they will have similar or same outcome? john and jack. does destiny mean they will always meet and change each other regardless of how, or does it mean they will always be opposed? still man of science, man of faith. but this time it appears they will contribute positively to each others lives rather then negatively.

its all very confusing.

[rachelskid]

I don't think Juliette detonating the bomb, caused 'the incident' as it happened before the plane crashed. I think it made a new incident that was more like Des's failsafe key turning event. I think whatever changes were made by the losties in the past, were immediately realised in the future as soon as they blooped off the plane. So that we have been watching the changed reality ever since Ajira landed on the island.

slowly and with more words please. i don't get this one. i've seen this theory already but totally do not understand. can you elaborate?:o

[ortrules]

I think it's still too early to decide. It's obvious that they are trying to set us up to think in the multiverse direction.

I'm also not sold on the idea that Jughead is responsible for the current split. Not everything they presented in the finale can be explained with "the Swan wasn't built, so this happened."

[rachelskid]

I think it's still too early to decide. It's obvious that they are trying to set us up to think in the multiverse direction.

I'm also not sold on the idea that Jughead is responsible for the current split. Not everything they presented in the finale can be explained with "the Swan wasn't built, so this happened."

you are right. read the Q&A from ew.com, its a special interview with darlton to help us formulate the mysteries this season. for the love of all that is good and holly, we now need help formulating the actual mystery and not just the answer.

it, i think, is an imperative read. whether jughead did "this" IS a cental season 6 mystery.

[chester]

slowly and with more words please. i don't get this one. i've seen this theory already but totally do not understand. can you elaborate?:o

From the perspective of the people on the Ajira flight:

when the losties get get blooped back in time, they just witness a bloop, and them disappearing. There was a present (reality) around before the bloop, which had the losties in it. And there was a present around after the bloop, which didn't - they had gone to the past.

In the reality before the bloop, the losties were either not in the past at all, or they were and performed one particular set of actions. In the reality after the bloop, they are definitely in the past (that's where they went), so depending on whether they were there before the bloop or not, they could change things either just by being there and interacting with it, or by doing something different.

So 'what they did in the past' after the bloop, is different to what they did in the past (if anything) before the bloop. And this different past would result in a different present, that would immediately follow the bloop. If they did something different.

[ortrules]

for the love of all that is good and holly, we now need help formulating the actual mystery and not just the answer.

For real. The premiere certainly gave us a lot to discuss, but I don't even know where to begin thinking about "the bigger picture" now.

[gwynnie]

I voted for the Multiple Universes option on the last poll and I'm going to stick with it on this one.

I do not think we have been dealing with multiple universes for the entire show, however. I think a certain event (most likely Juliet's actions under the Swan in 1997, but not definitely) caused this second universe or timeline.

I go with this one, too; although the undateable indicates 'free will'. I think the 2nd timeline occured as a result of the bomb denotating in 1977 doing two things: Sending the 1977 Losties forward to where Richard, et al are - 2007. The 2nd thing it did is create a timeline in which the plane never crashed and did landed intact at LAX in 2004...but I think those would-be Losties could start to have more deja-vu - "remembering they know one anotherr"and something could ultimately happen to cause them to CHOOSE which timeline they want to exist in - 2004 and forward in L.A. never having experienced the island? or where they are right now in the story and being able to decide to stay on the island as is.

Actually, I dunno...

[bunnydixon]

Actually, I dunno...

this is my answer too :p