Faraday knew Desmond would be on the Island (Can change the past)

[DriveShaft]

I refuse to think too much into the time travel **** this late

Howeverrrrrrrrrrrrr the fact that Faraday made Desmond his constant for the island means he knew that Desmond would be on the island

Desmond mentioned something about being on an island with Faraday to 1996 Faraday.

I'm sure when Faraday found out he was going to the island he made Desmond his constant.

However it was 2004 farday that made desmond meet 1996 faraday.

This means Faraday changed the past himself to effect the future (journal log, which would not of existed without 2004 faraday telling desmond to find 1996 faraday)

[1hourisntlongenough]

Faraday also told Des, "You can't change the future"......so maybe by changing the past they can create a different future????? just a thought....:eek:

[DriveShaft]

Faraday also told Des, "You can't change the future"......so maybe by changing the past they can create a different future????? just a thought....:eek:

Yeah i think people are confusing that with "Cant change the past"

Desmond cant change the future because his TRUE self is in 2004. Which seems like the future to 1994 Desmond but it is not, it is the present.

So the past can be changed in my opinion.

And that means Desmond can save Charlie (Perhapse to change a timeline and prevent something from happening)

Also Desmond CAN change the future. He can see into it. (However that skill is unheard of so Faraday says it is impossible to change the future)

These two powers combined could mean a lot of potential for Desmond.

[LOSTLOST]

this is reminding me of the movie "12 Monkeys" if anybody has seen it, they will no wut im tlking about.

[LostFreak21]

So, do you think that is how Big Bad Ben gets here there and everywhere-on and off the Island? In peoples minds? Oh man this is mind boggling. What year is it anyways:)

[Snape]

Even though I don't really....like 100% the time travel stuff (hey, I'm a physicist but I'm also a realist), I'm so glad we finally got some big answers [as well as some serious questions].

Now we know it really is time travel - there is no doubt now.

[1hourisntlongenough]

Yea, DriveShaft..I think you're right about the changing the past to change or prevent things in the future.....Did you see Desmond's eyes light up when Penny mentioned Charlie's name over the phone?? Almost like it had rung a bell and he had a thought that maybe he'd go back and change that. Idk...maybe wishful thinking!!

[awsnyde]

I refuse to think too much into the time travel **** this late

I agree that's a good idea, although it's an even better idea if you watch the Terminator movies or TV series!

I think the creators/producers have said several times in interviews that in the series they want to make it that time travel can't change the past or future. I think they said something to the effect that they wanted to avoid paradoxes. It's possible that they said it just can't change the past, but I think I remember them saying it both ways.

[DriveShaft]

Yea, DriveShaft..I think you're right about the changing the past to change or prevent things in the future.....Did you see Desmond's eyes light up when Penny mentioned Charlie's name over the phone?? Almost like it had rung a bell and he had a thought that maybe he'd go back and change that. Idk...maybe wishful thinking!!

There was a huge outlash at directors for getting rid of Charlie.

Esspecially because he did not really want to go

I was watching interviews with him, he thinks the show is making a mistake.


With all this time ****...how crazy would it be if Charlie turns out to be one of the Oceanic 6.

Seriously the writers should make that happen.

Why dont I write for the show?

[1hourisntlongenough]

There was a huge outlash at directors for getting rid of Charlie.

Esspecially because he did not really want to go

I was watching interviews with him, he thinks the show is making a mistake.


With all this time ****...how crazy would it be if Charlie turns out to be one of the Oceanic 6.

Seriously the writers should make that happen.

Why dont I write for the show?

HA!!! How do we know you DON'T write for the show??? I think you and Dz know more than we all do!!! Maybe you both are planted here to throw us a bone here and there....or send us on wild goose chases!!! ;)

J/K.......hahahaha.....you both should write for them!!!!!! :D

[XmasDVD]

It's "Back to the Future" 101 - you can't change the future, just create a new reality of the future. Remember when Marty went back in time and helped his dad beat up Biff? When he went back to the future, the house was nicer, he had his dream truck, his parents were cool, siblings in successful jobs? According to Doc Brown, it is an "alternate reality" - Parallel to the one he knew.

Jusy like when old Biff gave young Biff the sports almanac and he made a fortune and took over the town - alternate reality.

There's that theory (or proven true?) that when you are faced with a decision, all possible outcomes happen at the same time, parallel to each other, you just choose which one to follow.

[DriveShaft]

HA!!! How do we know you DON'T write for the show??? I think you and Dz know more than we all do!!! Maybe you both are planted here to throw us a bone here and there....or send us on wild goose chases!!! ;)

J/K.......hahahaha.....you both should write for them!!!!!! :D

**** I had an awesome idea and just lost it....had to do with Charlie haha


OH I just remembered

Okay so Penny Mentions Charlie.

Maybe some how Penny has to get on the island to get desmond.

Maybe Desmond would have to make Charlie her constant because she saw him before he died.

But then saving her causes her to not see charlie in the first place causing penny to from mind warpage when she gets on the island.

Then Locke gives a speech about life replacing life.

[DriveShaft]

It's "Back to the Future" 101 - you can't change the future, just create a new reality of the future. Remember when Marty went back in time and helped his dad beat up Biff? When he went back to the future, the house was nicer, he had his dream truck, his parents were cool, siblings in successful jobs? According to Doc Brown, it is an "alternate reality" - Parallel to the one he knew.

Jusy like when old Biff gave young Biff the sports almanac and he made a fortune and took over the town - alternate reality.

There's that theory (or proven true?) that when you are faced with a decision, all possible outcomes happen at the same time, parallel to each other, you just choose which one to follow.

So now your saying there are unlimited paradoxes?

[1hourisntlongenough]

**** I had an awesome idea and just lost it....had to do with Charlie haha


OH I just remembered

Okay so Penny Mentions Charlie.

Maybe some how Penny has to get on the island to get desmond.

Maybe Desmond would have to make Charlie her constant because she saw him before he died.

But then saving her causes her to not see charlie in the first place causing penny to from mind warpage when she gets on the island.

Then Locke gives a speech about life replacing life.

WOW!!! Hold on, brb need to go get my excedrin migraine........OUCH!!! :eek:

[Snape]

Did anyone else think it was a <I>little</I> rich that Faraday just happened to be in close proximity to Desmond in 1996? Just seemed a little...too coincidental for it to be so easy for Desmond to get to Faraday's location in 1996.

Also note that Michael Faraday (the real life Physicist) studied electromagnetism in his day and actually made Faraday's law - one of the 4 Maxwell's Equations that fully describe electromagnetism.

[naclu]

There was a huge outlash at directors for getting rid of Charlie.

Esspecially because he did not really want to go

I was watching interviews with him, he thinks the show is making a mistake.


With all this time ****...how crazy would it be if Charlie turns out to be one of the Oceanic 6.

Seriously the writers should make that happen.

Why dont I write for the show?

BUT... In the first episode... which I THINK was the actual supposed "present time"... Charlie came to Hugo and said that he was dead, but he was also there... What we saw tonight happened before what we saw on the flashes from the first episode... So, as of that time, Charlie was still dead....

.... or was he?

[jacksnurse]

WOW!!! Hold on, brb need to go get my excedrin migraine........OUCH!!! :eek:

I 2nd that 1hour.....f##k that...give me some oxycontin...lol...so...WHO IS BEN'S CONSTANT...?????? ANY GUESSES??

[1hourisntlongenough]

I 2nd that 1hour.....f##k that...give me some oxycontin...lol...so...WHO IS BEN'S CONSTANT...?????? ANY GUESSES??

Hmmm.....perhaps Sayid????? :confused:

[jacksnurse]

OR whoever this childhood long lost love of his is....when will we find out who she is??

[1hourisntlongenough]

OR whoever this childhood long lost love of his is....when will we find out who she is??

Annie!!! Maybe SHE is his spy on the boat too??? Or do you think that we have seen all the crew from the freighter???

[TheCAD]

That final scene was awesome.
Turns out Faraday just level'ed Desmond(Level=Faraday was thinking on level2.)

He wasn't helping desmond, he was helping himself.

He needed to get his memory back so they can pull the mad scientist **** next week.

[Hanz Gropenfondel]

Okay ... NOT EVERYONE NEEDS A CONSTANT!

Only people exposed to high levels of radiation or elecromagnetism.

[LoafingDisaster]

See that is what I thought, it was more of a self-preserving, but of course, by Desmond being alive....it helps Faraday. So it is a bit full circle at this point, right?

Edit: And if he knew how to do it all along (?), does this mean he chose not to help Minkowski or tried to? Is that what the "Am I on speaker?" question was about? Probably not...

[DriveShaft]

BUT... In the first episode... which I THINK was the actual supposed "present time"... Charlie came to Hugo and said that he was dead, but he was also there... What we saw tonight happened before what we saw on the flashes from the first episode... So, as of that time, Charlie was still dead....

.... or was he?

Right, like he "was" dead. But not anymore.

I do know DM has been seen on the set of Lost during season 4 filming. Which is odd because he was not happy that they killed him off. However I think bringing Charlie back would be best as a big twist or hook right at the end of season 4. Where we dont really understand how but know we have to wait till the 5th season.

Then Charlie says the island needs him.

Maybe Charlie really was there (another guy did see him) and he was saved after the Oceanic 6 got off the island.

And then he found a way to get off the island. (maybe to get Aaron back)

That would be an amazing plot line.

[DriveShaft]

Okay ... NOT EVERYONE NEEDS A CONSTANT!

Only people exposed to high levels of radiation or elecromagnetism.

So we just gotta assume crazy guy that died was exposed to a lot.

[jacksnurse]

Drive.....what about Miles at the murdered boy's grandmother's house....maybe that machine was some type of time shifter....when he went up the stairs to the bedroom......the pictures were arranged differently and in diff. frames then when he came back down......watch it in SLO MO and see what i'm talkin' bout.....i knew that he did something with the time.....when he was talking...maybe not to a ghost...but in his mind he traveled in time and then he found the money and drugs...???

[DriveShaft]

Drive.....what about Miles at the murdered boy's grandmother's house....maybe that machine was some type of time shifter....when he went up the stairs to the bedroom......the pictures were arranged differently and in diff. frames then when he came back down......watch it in SLO MO and see what i'm talkin' bout.....i knew that he did something with the time.....when he was talking...maybe not to a ghost...but in his mind he traveled in time and then he found the money and drugs...???

Interesting

Maybe he stashed and retrieved them at two different times

[LoafingDisaster]

So what kind of impact does Ms. Hawking make on this theory? She pretty much advised Desmond not to toy with the future too much and that advice ended up impacting Charlie's fate. If Charlie is brought back, is he just going to die again?

[Hanz Gropenfondel]

Charlie's dead. He's not coming back and I'm glad.
I did not like him and I can't wait for Claire to die ... I can't stand her either.
Shannon was more useful than those two.

[LoafingDisaster]

Ahh, but if Charlie is brought back only to die again...it could lead to Claire doing something irrational that gets her hurt. Positive thinking?

I actually don't mind either of them. I just don't see how they can truly bring him back at this point, must be one hell of a plot line. I don't mind speculating though.

[naclu]

Drive.....what about Miles at the murdered boy's grandmother's house....maybe that machine was some type of time shifter....when he went up the stairs to the bedroom......the pictures were arranged differently and in diff. frames then when he came back down......watch it in SLO MO and see what i'm talkin' bout.....i knew that he did something with the time.....when he was talking...maybe not to a ghost...but in his mind he traveled in time and then he found the money and drugs...???

I don't know... have they had time to perfect it that well? Would be neat though.... would explain him talking to Naomi after she was dead to find out that jack and kate were telling the truth about not being the ones that killed her... or maybe he really went back in his mind and saw who did it instead?

[Glenn2000]

So, do you think that is how Big Bad Ben gets here there and everywhere-on and off the Island? In peoples minds? Oh man this is mind boggling. What year is it anyways:)

I don't think so. The travel is the conscience of a single individual. It isn't like Sayid or Ben slipping into the body of Jack or Sawyer in the future. Desmond (and apparently Faraday) were having episodes, but only within themselves in different times.

[DriveShaft]

So what kind of impact does Ms. Hawking make on this theory? She pretty much advised Desmond not to toy with the future too much and that advice ended up impacting Charlie's fate. If Charlie is brought back, is he just going to die again?

Technically no because he acctually did die.

That timeline has played out.

Altering it does not mean that it did not happen.

[Glenn2000]

So now your saying there are unlimited paradoxes?
Yes. It's part of Quantum Physics and each possible outcome creates it's own alternative reality. There are, in turn an endless number of realities that we are unaware of because of the decision we made that resulted in the reality we are experiencing. Our alternative selves are not aware of us either. And at every fundamental decision the split happens again.

It's enough to give you a headache...

[DriveShaft]

Yes. It's part of Quantum Physics and each possible outcome creates it's own alternative reality. There are, in turn an endless number of realities that we are unaware of because of the decision we made that resulted in the reality we are experiencing. Our alternative selves are not aware of us either. And at every fundamental decision the split happens again.

It's enough to give you a headache...

Right

What is the Degree of time travel on lost.

I think it will only get more intense

Remember #15 Bunny

[Glenn2000]

So we just gotta assume crazy guy that died was exposed to a lot.

Well, he admitted that he and another crewman took the skiff from the ship and tried to reach the island. When the got closer to the island the "thunderstorm" which is some kind of electromagnetic wall or curtain surrounding the island affected them.

And remember, Jack isn't aware of the exposure Desmond had when he set off the failsafe system for the Swan Hatch...

[Glenn2000]

Very true.
But, the writers said that they don't want to do that in LOST, so that's a non-issue.

Yes, I agree, but unless the writers are going to start referring to Harry Potter as far as I can surmise that is exactly what they have done...:confused:

[Hanz Gropenfondel]

It would seem that they did, but I think they have something more devious in mind!

[Glenn2000]

I also think it was Minkowski that trashed the equipment,
He wouldn't remember if his flashes happend afterward.

Although I'm probably wrong, I think that whomever is Ben's "man" on the boat did the sabotage because they don't want the ship to contact their bosses on the mainland.

Naomi was probably giving orders to the ship's Captain as she apparently was the leader of the team. Now, with a knife in her back and evidently as dead as the proverbial doornail, it's probably a mess as to who is actually in charge. The crew seems to be an odd lot that doesn't really know or have shipped out with one another before. In such a state, Ben's "man" probably is finding it easy to do whatever it is he is supposed to be doing for his master.

It's sorta like Ben is the Emperor and his "man" is a Sith... ;)

[Glenn2000]

It would seem that they did, but I think they have something more devious in mind!

Oh, absolutely! This may well be a red herring to throw us off track...

[Hanz Gropenfondel]

Although I'm probably wrong, I think that whomever is Ben's "man" on the boat did the sabotage because they don't want the ship to contact their bosses on the mainland.

Naomi was probably giving orders to the ship's Captain as she apparently was the leader of the team. Now, with a knife in her back and evidently as dead as the proverbial doornail, it's probably a mess as to who is actually in charge. The crew seems to be an odd lot that doesn't really know or have shipped out with one another before. In such a state, Ben's "man" probably is finding it easy to do whatever it is he is supposed to be doing for his master.

It's sorta like Ben is the Emperor and his "man" is a Sith... ;)

That sounds more likely. I think Ben's man is Michael and that definitely seems like a Michael thing to do.

[NZlostie]

I suppose it depends really what time is the current time as to what future can't be changed.
You can change actions for the situation you are in at the time you are in it. His mind will eventually catch up with his body.
Desmond1996 will be giving Faraday1996 info for his diary that will not only provide Faraday (on island) info on understanding what's happening to him it will hold the key to solving how to cure Desmond(Freighter)

Yes there will be an element of Faraday getting his theory proved and being praised and awarded for it - but he is doing a good deed.
He seems to be a very nice character :)

[bunnydixon]

back to the original topic - i believe he also needed to use desmond to help himself. he is already doing the time travel but has problems due to his memory so needed desmond to help him and he is using him as his constant too.

nurse - perhaps they used the frame scene to kill two birds - show us about miles and to show us that small events can occur to make small changes that wont make a massive effect overall.

as for the back to the future thing - alternate realities and paradoxes were in there but that wa salso to do with the fact that when you travelled, you went entirely. whereas here, you physical body remains and you inhabit your past, future, whatever self. if there was alternate realities etc...would there not be a lotta bodies here there and everywhere in catatonic states lol!

[Lostfornow]

I don't think so. The travel is the conscience of a single individual. It isn't like Sayid or Ben slipping into the body of Jack or Sawyer in the future. Desmond (and apparently Faraday) were having episodes, but only within themselves in different times.

I could not agree more. They were not there physically.

[snow24]

I don't think we can assume that Faraday has been time traveling, I don’t think he has access to an electromagnetic power strong enough to do a human mind, at least not that far into the past or future. I'm thinking his problem is stemming from his experiments at the university.

There was something to the statement Desmond made about Faraday not wearing head protection during his experiments. Faraday has been exposed to a large amount of electro/radioactivity in the past, so he is worried about his trips back and forth on the island messing with him, perhaps they already have a little, but maybe not as much as Desmond because he was affected by as much as Dez was.

What is throwing me off is that Faraday said you can't change the future, but Desmond did. He changed Charlie's future time and time again. Granted he did eventually die, but Desmond did change the when, where, and how. He also changed the past, as we saw Faraday's journal changed.

I hope the writers don't start messing with this too much. Maybe just leave it as time travel is possible, and this group wants to use the island for it, and Ben is trying to protect the world from the consequences.

[ecw0930]

Hanz.....

WOW! You are em.... yeah.

First, we dont know for sure that you dont need a constant, but the way they made it look is that EVERYONE that does the time shift NEEDS a constant. Radiation, electromagnets or not... you NEED ONE! The reason is you need a stabilizer so your brain can tell where and WHEN you are. That is what Faraday said.

I doubt the communicator guy on the boat was exposed like Desmond was. Therefore, it is much safer to assume that EVERYONE NEEDS a constant during time shift.

On a second note. Why does Faraday need a constant? He can't timeshift (yet). Why can the guy on the boat? Why can he time shift, but nobody else on the boat can? And, its obvious now why Faraday was so insistant on helping and talking to Desmond, but what if something happens to Desmond..... then what? And next week.... they are gonna blow stuff up, shoot people.... Charlotte is a lil biotch!

[Apocolypse]

I think Faraday needing a constant had something to do with the other Freighter guy's comment to Desmond that, "Faraday can't even help himself."

[ecw0930]

I think Faraday needing a constant had something to do with the other Freighter guy's comment to Desmond that, "Faraday can't even help himself."


No. It has nothing to do with that.

Think of it like this. An old cartoon. Those guys on the boats are the dumb thugs in charge of everything who think they know everything and think they are cool!

Faraday is the guy they make do everything, who is actually smarter than them, but since he can't beat them up he is stuck doing what he's doing.

haha, i know it's ironic, but think about the movie Back To The Future. Biff and his gang are all and big and bad, but they are dumb thugs. McFly is really smart and a great guy, but he's a wimp.

The guys on the boat don't give Faraday any respect and think he's a crazy lunny who can't even make sense out of his own thoughts! That's why they said "Faraday can't even help himself".

Besides, he didn't need a constant until... well he may NEVER need one.

[Carli]

What do you mean Oceanic 6