Island time is the same as real time.

[TuesdaySmith]

I posted about this a while back, but nobody seemed to believe me because everyone got all caught up in the time travel thing.

The losties and the rest of the world are operating on the same time line. We've seen lots of clues to show this, but this last episode should completely clear it up.

They have been on the island for 93/94 days. Sept 22nd - Dec 24th is 93/94 days (depending whether you are inluding the last day). We know this because of not only the calendar on the freighter but also the phone call Desmond made to Penny.

Can we please lay this one to rest?

[TheCAD]

I was nice enough to make up a theory that is both consistent with the information provided from the show and will allow people to believe that island time is not the same as real world time.

Island time has a slower rate than real time.

However, it began at a time before real world time. AKA the people travel back in time when they enter the island.

Thus, Dec 24th was the day those two times intersected. This would only happen once. Which would explain why the freighter showed up when they did.

Is this whats really going on? Eff if I know.

Is it feasible? Yes

[McMason]

I posted about this a while back, but nobody seemed to believe me because everyone got all caught up in the time travel thing.

The losties and the rest of the world are operating on the same time line. We've seen lots of clues to show this, but this last episode should completely clear it up.

They have been on the island for 93/94 days. Sept 22nd - Dec 24th is 93/94 days (depending whether you are inluding the last day). We know this because of not only the calendar on the freighter but also the phone call Desmond made to Penny.

Can we please lay this one to rest?

Then Aaron in the last episode grows really fast or the federal courts in cali work really slow. That kid was at least two, maybe three.

[TuesdaySmith]

But, if the people travelled back in time when they entered the island, how would the same number of days go by on the island and the real world and still end (as in end of today's episode) on the same day?

[SLForney]

Then Aaron in the last episode grows really fast or the federal courts in cali work really slow. That kid was at least two, maybe three.
Again, we have till 2011 for the finale (sic) so I don't think they get off the island quite yet.

[Octopod]

Or they dont actually make it off the island for a couple years.

[TuesdaySmith]

Then Aaron in the last episode grows really fast or the federal courts in cali work really slow. That kid was at least two, maybe three.

Kate's mom said that everything changed when she thought Kate was dead. She had been given 6 months to live for 4 years.

We don't know when the losties get rescued.. I doubt it's going to happen any time soon.

Aaron's age is consistent with the island running on the same time as the rest of the world.

[naclu]

I've played with thoughts about the time being different, but never really thought too much into it.. I do believe, however, that there is a time delay when going through the warp, or whatever it is... That calendar could also be a way for the people on the boat to keep up with the time on the island....

If anything, this episode confused me even more... They took off on a trip that should have only taken a few minutes... to them, it may not have taken that long, though they do remember going through what looked like the storm... Still, on the island, it was a day later before they heard from them... On the boat, it was the same day... earlier in the day, even... it was dusk when they took off and daylight when they landed...

And what did Daniel mean exactly when he told Jack that his perception of how long they've been gone isn't the same as their's...

[McMason]

[QUOTE=TuesdaySmith;17819]Kate's mom said that everything changed when she thought Kate was dead. She had been given 6 months to live for 4 years.

We don't know when the losties get rescued.. I doubt it's going to happen any time soon.

Aaron's age is consistent with the island running on the same time as the rest of the world.[/QUOTE

Sorry, I was ASSuming that they wer on the verge of being rescued. Maybe ten days or so. Point taken:o

[islelost]

This might sound far fetched but do you think some on the plane survived because of the time warp. If they do go backward on the island then they are not dead yet. I don't know we never actually saw anyone hit the water they were just there. If it is the same time zone island to states then what was with the missile experiment? There has to be some kinda of warp if you have to stay a certain coarse to get back even Michael and Walt had to.

[bunnydixon]

yes but he made the phone call off the island.

[ortrules]

I'm not sure sure this puts any time delay theory to rest - as it wasn't proven that island time is the same as real time.

We now 'know' that the calendar date is the same for off and on the freighter - but we don't know the time difference. The island could still be minutes or hours off.

Plus, there were quite a few references in the show saying there was something with time delay.

Daniel said something to Jack about the helicopter like "your perception of time is different than theirs and they'll be fine"

On the freighter Sayid says "when we left it was dusk and now it's mid-afternoon"

Then when they looked at the calendar Sayid said "I didn't realize it was Christmas Eve already"

[TuesdaySmith]

Yes, there is a time warp thing that happens while travelling to and from the island. But NO, there is NO TIME DIFFERENCE between the island and the rest of the world! We've been shown this time and time again.. the clues are all over the place, but only, what, two people want to pay attention to them? haha.. this is driving me nuts! It's like how the producers said Charlie was dead, but half the fans won't let it go!

They give us craploads of clues.. why ignore them? With so many unanswered questions, why try to make more of answered ones?

[ortrules]

Yes, there is a time warp thing that happens while travelling to and from the island. But NO, there is NO TIME DIFFERENCE between the island and the rest of the world! We've been shown this time and time again.. the clues are all over the place, but only, what, two people want to pay attention to them? haha.. this is driving me nuts!
Then maybe you'd be so kind as to explain these clues that suggest the two places are definitely on the same time...

[jwfalzone]

What about the fact that we know that sayid and desmond are in the in the helicopter for twenty minutes.. and two days go by on the island?

all the calendar proves is that time on the boat and time in the real world are the same.. the boat is not the island.

[JoBlow]

It seems clear that time passes the same on the island and in the rest of the world. It's also clear, though, that time gets quirky when you move between the two. Clearly, the helicopter took more real time to transition than what the perceived distance would take. The missile also took longer than expected between the ship and the island.

I think that the island may be separated from the rest of the world in space and perhaps in time. Notice how you must be very careful to transition from the island back to the real world. This was the case for Michael and Walt on the boat and for the helicopter. Between the two is some sort of worm hole. Stray from the course and you're toast. The transition is also very violent - the "storm" between the two experienced by the the helicopter - the problems experienced by the helicopter when it came to the island - even the Oceanic flight originally - so violent that it tore the plane apart.

The translation may only be in space. The island is not physically where you think it is but is somewhere else on the planet connected by the worm hole. It could also be somewhere else in time (remember Hurley's comment when listening to the big band tune on the radio?). Hell, it may even be in some alternate reality. The hole between the island and the ship may not even be the only one - different times, different destinations.

[TuesdaySmith]

1.) The calendar on the freighter. Self-explanatory.

2.) Desmond's phone call to Penny on Dec. 24, 2004. She was waiting.

3.) The ffw of Jack during his craziness - April 5, 2007 (the newspaper)

4.) Aaron's age. He was born in 2004 and we know that the ffws when Jack is all crazy are in 2007, so we know Kate's ffw was before that.

5.) The Red Sox winning the 04 Series on Oct. 27th, George Bush being reelected, and Ben telling this to Jack not long after they happen.

6.) The newspaper that Ben shows Juliet at Patchy's house - Sept. 22, 2004, the same date as the crash showing that even before the losties crashed, the time on the island was the same as the time in the rest of the world.

I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of right now. I think that's more than enough to show that the time is the same.

[TuesdaySmith]

What about the fact that we know that sayid and desmond are in the in the helicopter for twenty minutes.. and two days go by on the island?

all the calendar proves is that time on the boat and time in the real world are the same.. the boat is not the island.

Like I've said in numerous posts, I think that something happens while entering or leaving the island.. We know that obviously there are some time warp issues, because of the rocket thingie and the helicopter. BUT, on the island and off the island are the same. It's only the inbetween where problems occur.

[ecw0930]

1.) The calendar on the freighter. Self-explanatory.

2.) Desmond's phone call to Penny on Dec. 24, 2004. She was waiting.

3.) The ffw of Jack during his craziness - April 5, 2007 (the newspaper)

4.) Aaron's age. He was born in 2004 and we know that the ffws when Jack is all crazy are in 2007, so we know Kate's ffw was before that.

5.) The Red Sox winning the 04 Series on Oct. 27th, George Bush being reelected, and Ben telling this to Jack not long after they happen.

6.) The newspaper that Ben shows Juliet at Patchy's house - Sept. 22, 2004, the same date as the crash showing that even before the losties crashed, the time on the island was the same as the time in the rest of the world.

I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of right now. I think that's more than enough to show that the time is the same.




what you are missing is the fact that it's TRAVELING that sets time apart. "their perception of time is different" because they were traveling...

people aren't, at least i'm not, saying time is different in both places... it's the traveling that perceives time to be different. it stretches it to everyone else, but to the travelers it's normal.

[ai2301]

But NO, there is NO TIME DIFFERENCE between the island and the rest of the world!



You could be right but what interaction have we witnessed between the island and the rest of the world?
________
White widow seeds (http://marijuanaseeds.org/)

[TuesdaySmith]

what you are missing is the fact that it's TRAVELING that sets time apart. "their perception of time is different" because they were traveling...

people aren't, at least i'm not, saying time is different in both places... it's the traveling that perceives time to be different. it stretches it to everyone else, but to the travelers it's normal.

People have been saying it for weeks (that island time was not the same as real time)! Go look at all the posts!

I'm obviously not argueing that there isn't a shift in time while travelling. I've outright said that. Many times. I'm just trying to clear up the fact that the island and the rest of the world are on the same timeline because it's been driving me crazy for weeks and I think it's 100% clear now that they are operating on the same timeline.

If you aren't saying that the island and the rest of the world are on different timelines, then we AGREE!

I was specifically trying to clear it up for all the people (lots of them - seriously, check out the older posts!) who said that the island and the rest of the world were in DIFFERENT TIMES. That is absolutely untrue, and I don't think the show could have been clearer explaining it.

[TuesdaySmith]

You could be right but what interaction have we witnessed between the island and the rest of the world?

I gave 6 answers.

[LostFreak21]

Didn't Mankowski say that Penny had been trying to call the boat and then someone stopped them from contacting her? When was she supposably contacting the boat? Would that give us a clue to the length they have been gone?

[JoBlow]

All of the examples show that the passage of time on the island and off are the same. There is no way to show that the two are in the same time frame. All of the references to measured time, dates, etc come from the outside world. While passage of time is the same in the two places, it is different as matter transitions between them. Electromagnetic signals are not affected (the phone).

[ai2301]

I gave 6 answers.


Perhaps I misunderstood you then. I believe that they are off- but not by much- not days or years, but by at least some time. If they're off -even by a little, then I don't consider that the same timeline.

Your six points don't account for the possibility that there is a several hour (or so) discrepancy. Sayid even mentioned something about the time they took off and the time they landed not adding up IIRC (time of day versus time in the air.)
________
USACollege (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/USACollege/)

[TuesdaySmith]

I think you're missing the big picture.

Do you really think the big secret of Lost is that the island is 31 minutes (or whatever number you chose) off from the rest of the world?

[ai2301]

Do you really think the big secret of Lost is that the island is 31 minutes (or whatever number you chose) off from the rest of the world?


No, nor did I ever say that it was. I don't think anyone said that for that matter.

If I missed it could you point it out?
________
LIVEANGELINA (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/liveangelina)

[ortrules]

1.) The calendar on the freighter. Self-explanatory.

2.) Desmond's phone call to Penny on Dec. 24, 2004. She was waiting.

3.) The ffw of Jack during his craziness - April 5, 2007 (the newspaper)

4.) Aaron's age. He was born in 2004 and we know that the ffws when Jack is all crazy are in 2007, so we know Kate's ffw was before that.

5.) The Red Sox winning the 04 Series on Oct. 27th, George Bush being reelected, and Ben telling this to Jack not long after they happen.

6.) The newspaper that Ben shows Juliet at Patchy's house - Sept. 22, 2004, the same date as the crash showing that even before the losties crashed, the time on the island was the same as the time in the rest of the world.

I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of right now. I think that's more than enough to show that the time is the same.

Your points don't prove anything about the time relationship between the island and the rest of the world.

1 - Again, what does this prove? It's December 24 on the freighter. Cool. How does this prove it's also Dec 24 on the island? Or how does this prove it's the same time on the island?

2 - Yes, it was Dec 24 according the the freighter. Desmond knew this because of the date he saw on the freighter, went back to 1996 and told Penny he'd call on that date. This has nothing to do with island time.

3 - No relationship to island time.

4 - No relationship to island time other than Aaron aged normally. Again, a few hours difference or few days in difference will not show.

5 - How does this prove that the island time is the same? Again, the island can still be days or hours or minutes off in time and still allow Ben to know who won the world series or was re-elected president.

6 - This shows that the day they crashed was the same on the paper and the day of the crash. Cool, now you've managed to prove that it's the same day. But, this doesn't say that the island is on the same time as the rest of the world, it can still be at different times.

[bunnydixon]

i do agree that the phone call thing isnt related to island time - they called from the freighter which we know is on a slightly diff time than the island and based on the call, same time as the rest of the world. we know that the freighter time is diff from island time as we saw how long the losties perceived it to be and how long it actually was - even the times/settings of day were diff. that and syid says he didnt realise how close to xmas it was.

[HardrocksII]

I posted about this a while back, but nobody seemed to believe me because everyone got all caught up in the time travel thing.

The losties and the rest of the world are operating on the same time line. We've seen lots of clues to show this, but this last episode should completely clear it up.

They have been on the island for 93/94 days. Sept 22nd - Dec 24th is 93/94 days (depending whether you are inluding the last day). We know this because of not only the calendar on the freighter but also the phone call Desmond made to Penny.

Can we please lay this one to rest?

same timeline ?? then, how long did it take the helo to get to the freighter ? jack thinks at least a day...daniel tells him, no...how long did it take ? and by whose clock ?

[TuesdaySmith]

Your points don't prove anything about the time relationship between the island and the rest of the world.

1 - Again, what does this prove? It's December 24 on the freighter. Cool. How does this prove it's also Dec 24 on the island? Or how does this prove it's the same time on the island?

2 - Yes, it was Dec 24 according the the freighter. Desmond knew this because of the date he saw on the freighter, went back to 1996 and told Penny he'd call on that date. This has nothing to do with island time.

3 - No relationship to island time.

4 - No relationship to island time other than Aaron aged normally. Again, a few hours difference or few days in difference will not show.

5 - How does this prove that the island time is the same? Again, the island can still be days or hours or minutes off in time and still allow Ben to know who won the world series or was re-elected president.

6 - This shows that the day they crashed was the same on the paper and the day of the crash. Cool, now you've managed to prove that it's the same day. But, this doesn't say that the island is on the same time as the rest of the world, it can still be at different times.

Are you kidding me? I'm not even sure how to respond.. Becauuuse, my answers made sense and what you just said doesn't in any way.

1.) I thought it was self explanatory, but maybe it's not. The losties have been on the island for 93/94 days. The calender date is Dec. 24th 2004, 93/94 days from Sept. 22, 2004 (depending whether or not you count the last day). So, yes, that proves that it is December 24th both on the island and off the island.

2.) See #1

3.) The ffw date has EVERYTHING to do with island time. We know it's a few years in the future and we know that it's 2007.. a few years from 2004.

4.) Are you seriously saying that you are trying to prove that the island is ONLY a few hours or a few days off? First of all, I think I've already proved that it is in fact the same DAY as the island. If it's a few hours off.. so? You REALLY think that's the BIG SECRET.. the MYSTERY off the show? The island is a few hours off?

If that were true, I'd stop watching the show faster than I'm going to stop responding to your post.

[TuesdaySmith]

same timeline ?? then, how long did it take the helo to get to the freighter ? jack thinks at least a day...daniel tells him, no...how long did it take ? and by whose clock ?

Yes.

On the freigher it is Dec 24th 2004.

On the island it is Dec 24th 2004.

Where exactly is the confusion?

[bunnydixon]

when was the last time anyone on the island said how long they had been on the island? i remember jack saying something about 100 something when he was talking to frank. thats diff than the 93 days they appear to have been on the island.

[ortrules]

Are you kidding me? I'm not even sure how to respond.. Becauuuse, my answers made sense and what you just said doesn't in any way.

1.) I thought it was self explanatory, but maybe it's not. The losties have been on the island for 93/94 days. The calender date is Dec. 24th 2004, 93/94 days from Sept. 22, 2004 (depending whether or not you count the last day). So, yes, that proves that it is December 24th both on the island and off the island.

2.) See #1

3.) The ffw date has EVERYTHING to do with island time. We know it's a few years in the future and we know that it's 2007.. a few years from 2004.

4.) Are you seriously saying that you are trying to prove that the island is ONLY a few hours or a few days off? First of all, I think I've already proved that it is in fact the same DAY as the island. If it's a few hours off.. so? You REALLY think that's the BIG SECRET.. the MYSTERY off the show? The island is a few hours off?

If that were true, I'd stop watching the show faster than I'm going to stop responding to your post.

Ok, I'm pretty sure you're the one not understand. Yes, the island and real world are both on the same day in 2004. That's proven.

What I am pointing out, is that the island and real world can still be on different times during the day. It can be Dec 24, 2004 on the island and the real world - but, it may be 1:00 on the island and 3:00 on the real world. That part, we don't know! And given the time delay experiment, the island is 31 minutes or so off.

And when did I say thats the BIG SECRET of the show? I didn't. But, it is one of the many secrets to the island. After all, why would the show bring up time delay and moving your conciousness into the future and back, if it had nothing to do with the show?

[TuesdaySmith]

when was the last time anyone on the island said how long they had been on the island? i remember jack saying something about 100 something when he was talking to frank. thats diff than the 93 days they appear to have been on the island.

He said it was 100 days since he's last seen a baseball game.

The timeline on lostpedia is pretty clear about the number of days they've been on the island.

[bunnydixon]

yes buts how many days they actually HAVE been on the island - how many days do the losties think it is?

[TuesdaySmith]

Ok, I'm pretty sure you're the one not understand. Yes, the island and real world are both on the same day in 2004. That's proven.

What I am pointing out, is that the island and real world can still be on different times during the day. It can be Dec 24, 2004 on the island and the real world - but, it may be 1:00 on the island and 3:00 on the real world. That part, we don't know! And given the time delay experiment, the island is 31 minutes or so off.

And when did I say thats the BIG SECRET of the show? I didn't. But, it is one of the many secrets to the island. After all, why would the show bring up time delay and moving your conciousness into the future and back, if it had nothing to do with the show?

Can you go back and read my first post please?

If you say that the timeline is the same, that it's Dec 24th both on and off the island, and that its "proven", then WE AGREE!

What the hell? Why are you even debating me then?

I thought I was REAL CLEAR about the the timeline and the time shift being two different things.

[bunnydixon]

Can you go back and read my first post please?

If you say that the timeline is the same, that it's Dec 24th both on and off the island, and that its "proven", then WE AGREE!

What the hell? Why are you even debating me then?

I thought I was REAL CLEAR about the the timeline and the time shift being two different things.

lol you guys! i hate when that happens - you start debating something then it turns out you actually think the same thing after all and you cant remember what your original beef was anymore :D

[ortrules]

Can you go back and read my first post please?

If you say that the timeline is the same, that it's Dec 24th both on and off the island, and that its "proven", then WE AGREE!

What the hell? Why are you even debating me then?

I thought I was REAL CLEAR about the the timeline and the time shift being two different things.
I think you need to go back and read your first post. No where do you say there's a time shift. You say "The losties and the rest of the world are operating on the same time line." Add that to the fact that the thread is title "Island time is the same as real time"

To me, that makes me think you believe they are operating on exactly the same time.

[Snape]

Can you go back and read my first post please?

If you say that the timeline is the same, that it's Dec 24th both on and off the island, and that its "proven", then WE AGREE!

What the hell? Why are you even debating me then?

I thought I was REAL CLEAR about the the timeline and the time shift being two different things.

I think what he's saying (which I am in total concurrence with) is that, say, when you go to the island, you go 31 minutes into the past, and when you leave again, you go 31 minutes back to normal. Your perception on the island is the same as being off of it, although it can be skewed by several minutes in either direction depending on the observer.

[HardrocksII]

lol..this is fun now. just one thing,,how long do you think it took the helo to get to the freighter ? a day, as jack thinks, or normal flt time 20 min or so? orrrrrrrrrrrrr...lol, maybe they were on the freighter for a day b4 sayd called jack..same time line to ?

[bunnydixon]

thats so obvious and yet totally overlooked hardrocks lol! but it may well be that they were too busy dealing with desmonds trauma.

[HardrocksII]

thats so obvious and yet totally overlooked hardrocks lol! but it may well be that they were too busy dealing with desmonds trauma.

lol, aint a d*** thing on this show thats obvious,,lol, so anything goes eh ? :D

[bunnydixon]

well sometimes if you look to hard....lol!

[TuesdaySmith]

lol you guys! i hate when that happens - you start debating something then it turns out you actually think the same thing after all and you cant remember what your original beef was anymore :D

ha! I know.. it's bad enough trying to explain to eachother when we don't understand, but when we're saying the same thing..! Agh! hahaha..

[TuesdaySmith]

I think you need to go back and read your first post. No where do you say there's a time shift. You say "The losties and the rest of the world are operating on the same time line." Add that to the fact that the thread is title "Island time is the same as real time"

To me, that makes me think you believe they are operating on exactly the same time.

Oh my god dude! hahaha.. This is from my first post:

"They have been on the island for 93/94 days. Sept 22nd - Dec 24th is 93/94 days (depending whether you are inluding the last day). We know this because of not only the calendar on the freighter but also the phone call Desmond made to Penny."

WHERE is the confusion?? Where are we disgreeing??

[TuesdaySmith]

I think what he's saying (which I am in total concurrence with) is that, say, when you go to the island, you go 31 minutes into the past, and when you leave again, you go 31 minutes back to normal. Your perception on the island is the same as being off of it, although it can be skewed by several minutes in either direction depending on the observer.

While I don't agree that the 31 minutes is a static number, I think the same thing about there being a warp! I've said that.. A few times! That's why this is so frustrating.. Me and this other dude totally agree, but keeps insisting that we don't!

[islander]

1.) The calendar on the freighter. Self-explanatory.

2.) Desmond's phone call to Penny on Dec. 24, 2004. She was waiting.

3.) The ffw of Jack during his craziness - April 5, 2007 (the newspaper)

4.) Aaron's age. He was born in 2004 and we know that the ffws when Jack is all crazy are in 2007, so we know Kate's ffw was before that.

5.) The Red Sox winning the 04 Series on Oct. 27th, George Bush being reelected, and Ben telling this to Jack not long after they happen.

6.) The newspaper that Ben shows Juliet at Patchy's house - Sept. 22, 2004, the same date as the crash showing that even before the losties crashed, the time on the island was the same as the time in the rest of the world.

I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of right now. I think that's more than enough to show that the time is the same.

Those work for me except Des' phone call to Penny occured from the boat so i don't think that's concrete proof of what time/day it is on the island.

[bunnydixon]

islander thats what i was TRYING to say but was waffling!

[Workman]

Did the helicopter leave for the freighter on the 23rd or 24th???

[islander]

islander thats what i was TRYING to say but was waffling!

lol...you don't seem like a waffler to me.

i wish someone on the island would hang a christmas wreath or put up a christmas tree. it seems a guy like hurley would do that.

[bunnydixon]

i am maximo wafflage tonight!

yeah, something festive might cheer folks up!

[ortrules]

Oh my god dude! hahaha.. This is from my first post:

"They have been on the island for 93/94 days. Sept 22nd - Dec 24th is 93/94 days (depending whether you are inluding the last day). We know this because of not only the calendar on the freighter but also the phone call Desmond made to Penny."

WHERE is the confusion?? Where are we disgreeing??
The disagreement comes because no where in there do you say there is a time difference a la the 31 minute differential. That is the point I'm arguing. It's the same day, but it's not the same time.

[Lostfan1]

So...The day on the Freighter is the same day as the outside world. (Acording to the calender and Phone call to Penny)

Acording to the newspaper (Richard had on live camera) The day on the island is the same as the day of the outside world.

The helicopter ride was about 20 minutes long.
It Jumped forward in time-Lets say about 16 hours-Which is from dusk to Mid-day.
The ride only lasted 20 mins to Syaid and Desmond.
But on the island It lasted about 16 hours Which is why Jack didn't know where they were for so long
It's like they crossed a line from 8pm to 12pm

I know some people are going to post somting like were did u get 16 hours from-Well we know coming to the island theres a difference of about 30 mins.
(the rocket crossed a line (or warp) from 1pm to 1:30pm)
The time change going to and from the island is DIFFERENT:eek:

[volksricola]

The island is not the same time, that is not what they said. The boat would be on the same time frame as the outside world, as Penny. There is definitely some sort of time difference between the boat and the island. Daniel saying that they had to fly at a certain path shows that there is apparently some sort of rift between the boat and the island that they must go through....

The Desmond is my constant for Daniel Faraday means that Desmond is present in both both Daniel's pre-island times as well as the post.

Aaron being much older, the trial for Kate may have taken a year to get started... but that doesn't mean that there is no time difference.

Really, who knows.... its anybody's guess... but what fun the ride is! ;)

[skatertsol]

1.) The calendar on the freighter. Self-explanatory.

2.) Desmond's phone call to Penny on Dec. 24, 2004. She was waiting.

3.) The ffw of Jack during his craziness - April 5, 2007 (the newspaper)

4.) Aaron's age. He was born in 2004 and we know that the ffws when Jack is all crazy are in 2007, so we know Kate's ffw was before that.

5.) The Red Sox winning the 04 Series on Oct. 27th, George Bush being reelected, and Ben telling this to Jack not long after they happen.

6.) The newspaper that Ben shows Juliet at Patchy's house - Sept. 22, 2004, the same date as the crash showing that even before the losties crashed, the time on the island was the same as the time in the rest of the world.

I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of right now. I think that's more than enough to show that the time is the same.
I'll add to this, Tuesday. What tied all three together- Sayid saw the calendar on the boat before Des called Penny back at home. ISLAND/FREIGHTER/THE REST OF THE WORLD Sayid said something about it being Christmas Eve, that he'd almost forgot, something very casual (the almost forgetting or whatever wasn't out of line-I'd prolly have forgotten too with everything they've been dealing with!) It wasn't "What the heck, it's Christmas Eve 2004!!??!??" I still don't know about "we left at dusk and now it's daylight" or what Faraday was talking about...But all three worlds were experiencing Christmas Eve 2004 for sure.

[vortex spinner]

The time vortex around the island is like a time hill to be climbed. the ends are rooted in real time so time on island = time IR world. passing from Island to off island requires passage through vortex. The path taken subject passenger to variations in time distortion. The rocket trajectory was such that only 1/2 hour was lost. The lower path of the helo trip resulted in a longer distortion for the passengers, but they exited in real time 2 days later which seemed like 20 minute trip.

Time vortex's effect is what had to be discharged every 108 minutes. Now that it is nit discharged distortions are more substantial.

[clone52]

Are you kidding me? I'm not even sure how to respond.. Becauuuse, my answers made sense and what you just said doesn't in any way.

1.) I thought it was self explanatory, but maybe it's not. The losties have been on the island for 93/94 days. The calender date is Dec. 24th 2004, 93/94 days from Sept. 22, 2004 (depending whether or not you count the last day). So, yes, that proves that it is December 24th both on the island and off the island.

2.) See #1

3.) The ffw date has EVERYTHING to do with island time. We know it's a few years in the future and we know that it's 2007.. a few years from 2004.

4.) Are you seriously saying that you are trying to prove that the island is ONLY a few hours or a few days off? First of all, I think I've already proved that it is in fact the same DAY as the island. If it's a few hours off.. so? You REALLY think that's the BIG SECRET.. the MYSTERY off the show? The island is a few hours off?

If that were true, I'd stop watching the show faster than I'm going to stop responding to your post.

How do we know that the people on the island think its been only 93/94 days?

[skatertsol]

Doesn't Sayid say "Oh, I almost forgot, it's Christmas Eve?" wouldn't that denote that he's keeping track of time and the boat, the real world and the island are in synch?

[TuesdaySmith]

Those work for me except Des' phone call to Penny occured from the boat so i don't think that's concrete proof of what time/day it is on the island.

Ok.. I can understand why it could be seen as not concrete proof, but I still think it is, at least a little concrete haha.. Because the losties still spent the same amount of days on the island as it took the rest of the world to get to Dec. 24th. I know we didn't see a calender on the island, or in Penny's house, but I'm totally convinced that the show does not want to confuse us any more than necessary.. I think they show us things like the calendar on the freighter and the Christmas tree at Penny's house so that we know that what was said actually came true.

[TuesdaySmith]

The disagreement comes because no where in there do you say there is a time difference a la the 31 minute differential. That is the point I'm arguing. It's the same day, but it's not the same time.

Whatever.. I give up...

[TuesdaySmith]

Thank you to you guys who understand me! Really.. sometimes I think I'm clear, but maybe I'm not, so I'm really happy when people "get" what I'm saying!

[islander]

Doesn't Sayid say "Oh, I almost forgot, it's Christmas Eve?" wouldn't that denote that he's keeping track of time and the boat, the real world and the island are in synch?

i agree. BUT...

i now have a problem with dan telling jack something to the effect that "your perception of how long your friend has been gone is not necessarily how long they've been gone"

so a 20 minute helicopter ride "feels" like 1+ day to the losties, which means the losties 'perceived' that they cycled over 24 hours (ie, they slept and woke up) in what was 20 minutes off the island, but the island day is the same as the freighter's and penny's - 12/24/2004. time for some nuprin.

[TuesdaySmith]

i agree. BUT...

i now have a problem with dan telling jack something to the effect that "your perception of how long your friend has been gone is not necessarily how long they've been gone"

so a 20 minute helicopter ride "feels" like 1+ day to the losties, which means the losties 'perceived' that they cycled over 24 hours (ie, they slept and woke up) in what was 20 minutes off the island, but the island day is the same as the freighter's and penny's - 12/24/2004. time for some nuprin.

Here's what I think.. I wrote about this more detailed in the magnetic field thread, but the time was the same for everyone on and off the island.. the helicopter left, and when they phoned the boat the helicopter still had not arrived a day later.. That's pretty clear.. Where the time warp comes in is going through the magnetic field (ok, yes, it's just a theory, but I really do think that's what's happenning).

The helicopter goes through the field and gets "stuck".. it feels like, and actually is, a regular 30 or so minute ride, but the field warps things.. they really travel for 30 odd minutes (just a guess, don't quote me on the minutes), but since they're in the warp, it's really a day, half a day, whatever, for both the island and the freighter.

And, again, I feel like I'm explaining things well, but since I have this irrational idea that people Always know what I'm talking about, I probably didn't..

[pacman73]

None of these things prove that time is the same.

1.) The calendar on the freighter. Self-explanatory.

Lets say I am I travel from December 5th 2005 to the year 2000000 in a time warp/magnetic field and hang out for 6 days. When I travel back through the field (which could take any different amount of time depending on how time travel works) to the past, low and behold, 6 days have passed there as well and it is December 11th, 2005. All this proves is that the rate of time experienced in each different time is the same... that is, it passes in regular second, minute, hour, day, month, year intervals, and that the warp brings you back to whenever with the same amount of time being lapsed in both places. The delay during the warp could mean bi-zillion different things, but the fact that time moved forward both in the future and the past at the same rate means nothing as far as what year it is on the opposite sides of the warp.

2.) Desmond's phone call to Penny on Dec. 24, 2004. She was waiting.

Of course, it was December 24, 2004

3.) The ffw of Jack during his craziness - April 5, 2007 (the newspaper)

Time had passed in the world

4.) Aaron's age. He was born in 2004 and we know that the ffws when Jack is all crazy are in 2007, so we know Kate's ffw was before that.

Time is still moving in the world in a linear direction

5.) The Red Sox winning the 04 Series on Oct. 27th, George Bush being reelected, and Ben telling this to Jack not long after they happen.

Obviously Ben has contact with people outside of the island, and that other people can contact the island. This does not mean that it is impossible for someone in the year 20000 to call someone in another time period...say 2005.

6.) The newspaper that Ben shows Juliet at Patchy's house - Sept. 22, 2004, the same date as the crash showing that even before the losties crashed, the time on the island was the same as the time in the rest of the world.

The paper had to get to the island somehow. If I brought a newspaper from the year 2005 to the year 200000, and someone else came to the island from the year 2005 on the same day, that does not mean that the year 200000 is the same as 2005. Just that there is some kind of warp between the two times.

I really don't know. nor do I care if the island is in a different time, but it is totally within the realm of possibility, and the above facts prove nothing except that there is a way to get from the island to the rest of the world, and that time moves linearly (forward) in both time frames, not what time or year the island is in.

I swore I would never post, but I just couldn't help myself.

[misterwuggles]

I see people tossing around the 30 minute thing, but that doesn't explain the helicopter trip at all. Personally, I think the (about) 60:1 ratio between on-island and off-island time perception might be noteworthy. Stood around waiting for the missile for about 30 seconds, showed up on island about 30 minutes later. Ride was supposed to take about 20 minutes, took about 20 hours. That's about 60 seconds to 1. Could be just a coincidence, but eh.

There's also the problem with conversation between on and off island. Either the signal is also traversing time or the perception of time or whatever, or the time thing is a one time occurrence when going in and out, like a big barrier around the island.

Also, on the topic of time, there's also still the question as to why the Other, Richard, doesn't seem to age at a normal rate. Knowing all the curve balls they love to throw at us, these two things are probably completely unrelated, but you never know.

I just don't think that they've given us nearly enough information to say what is and isn't with any amount of certainty. Least of all the claim that island time is without a doubt the same as real time.

I'll admit, it does seem like the most likely explanation is that on and off island are pretty similar, while the barrier in between the two is the problem. However, there's just no way to say that it's definitely the right answer until there's more information on the table.

The best theory I'd personally be able to come up with is that the barrier around the island is actually thick and needs to be traveled through. While traveling through it, your perception of time remains the same, but time is in fact going about 60x (rough estimate based on two examples) slower. So the rocket, which was able to move through the barrier quickly, only suffered about 30 minutes of time lag, whereas the helicopter suffered around 20 hours.

The missile was supposed to arrive in around 30 seconds, and the helicopter was supposed to arrive in around 1200 seconds. Assuming they were going at the average speed of a helicopter, which is 130 mph, that says the missile was going at around 5200 mph, which seems about right. Not only is that a good speed for an actual missile, but the chick was giving the missile's location in intervals of about -5 km every 2 seconds. That's 2.5 km/s, which is about 5600 mph.

Heck, even though it seems like it might make a little sense with numbers tacked on, there's no way to know for sure. Even if there IS a barrier, we don't know whether it's thick or not, or how thick it is, or whether or not the thickness is uniform throughout the whole barrier, or what effect it really has on time or the perception of time. Maybe I'm right on the money, and Daniel gave Frank those coordinates because he somehow knew there was a hole in the barrier, or that it was thin at that point. Who knows??

Heh, I may have read a bit into it and gone a bit overboard, but ultimately the fact remains that we can't know what's fact until they tell us what exactly is fact.

Instead of theories we should probably just listen to what the characters tell us. By that I'm talking about Daniel telling Jack and company that it was their perception--meaning the people on the island itself--of time isn't what they think. That implies that what they think is ALWAYS different from what's normal or real, not that it's only every now and then when they go through a magic time barrier. That's what implies that island time is not equal to real time. So chances are we should just listen to time magician Daniel and not stress over it.

[Apocolypse]

I think it's really simple.

-The date and time in both places is the same.

-The electromagnetic field surrounding the island is somehow warping space-time around the island, and the path from the island to the boat isn't a straight line anymore.

[TuesdaySmith]

Yes, thank you.. it is REALLY SIMPLE.

But people insist on trying to complicate things.

Why? I don't know.. Like I've said before, the show gives us enough mysteries - they aren't trying to confuse us.. They give us REALLY SIMPLE and CLEAR clues to show what's really going on. But they get ignored by half the fans...

[islander]

Here's what I think.. I wrote about this more detailed in the magnetic field thread, but the time was the same for everyone on and off the island.. the helicopter left, and when they phoned the boat the helicopter still had not arrived a day later.. That's pretty clear.. Where the time warp comes in is going through the magnetic field (ok, yes, it's just a theory, but I really do think that's what's happenning).

The helicopter goes through the field and gets "stuck".. it feels like, and actually is, a regular 30 or so minute ride, but the field warps things.. they really travel for 30 odd minutes (just a guess, don't quote me on the minutes), but since they're in the warp, it's really a day, half a day, whatever, for both the island and the freighter.

And, again, I feel like I'm explaining things well, but since I have this irrational idea that people Always know what I'm talking about, I probably didn't..

i followed it so it must have been simple.

i believe your theory is supported by sayid realizing he left at dusk and arrived at the freighter around midday (the following day). jack thought they were gone for a day and sayid 'perceived' his flight was roughly a day.

[RPIDriveStick]

I have a calendar up at work that says it's 2006. Does that mean it's 2006?

Did Penny say what year it was in London? I don't believe she did. We know it's Christmas, but in what year? (And London is 12 hours behind Fiji, where one of the boat people said the island is near, it should be about 2 am there.) She's been looking for Des for 3 years - when exactly did she start looking?

The people on the freighter know what's going on. Abaddon sent them, and Faraday is a physicist studying this consciousness time-travel. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that the people on the freighter would want to make it appear that it's 2004.

It's also possible that they are just keeping track of time on the island - not time in the outside world.

The yellow x's might supposed to be the world series games...But they screwed up the dates? (According to lostpedia.com, they screw up a lot of stuff.)

Do we know that Kate's ffw is before Jack's ffw? Maybe he cleaned up by Kate's trial, or he's evolved to a functioning alcoholic. If time on the island runs differently than time off the island, and it's really years later, then Aaron would be too young to have been Claire's, since she was near 9 months when they crashed - hence, it would be plausible to be Kate's baby, conceived and born on the outside world, and protecting the island's secret from the outside world.

[islander]

Desmond knew he would call Penny in 2004 because desmond was 'living' in 2004 and 1996 at the time. I don't think Desmond was wrong about the years.

[Meditate]

I have a calendar up at work that says it's 2006. Does that mean it's 2006?

Did Penny say what year it was in London? I don't believe she did. We know it's Christmas, but in what year? (And London is 12 hours behind Fiji, where one of the boat people said the island is near, it should be about 2 am there.) She's been looking for Des for 3 years - when exactly did she start looking?

The people on the freighter know what's going on. Abaddon sent them, and Faraday is a physicist studying this consciousness time-travel. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that the people on the freighter would want to make it appear that it's 2004.

It's also possible that they are just keeping track of time on the island - not time in the outside world.

The yellow x's might supposed to be the world series games...But they screwed up the dates? (According to lostpedia.com, they screw up a lot of stuff.)

Do we know that Kate's ffw is before Jack's ffw? Maybe he cleaned up by Kate's trial, or he's evolved to a functioning alcoholic. If time on the island runs differently than time off the island, and it's really years later, then Aaron would be too young to have been Claire's, since she was near 9 months when they crashed - hence, it would be plausible to be Kate's baby, conceived and born on the outside world, and protecting the island's secret from the outside world.

Like I always say... don't know at all but would like to think that the Oceanic 6 are prepped for what will come, for how long who knows. But when they get back, all are good. Even Jack lies for a time, but I would bet that his lies catch up with him.