Leaving island by submarine, no time effect?...

[PolaBear]

So, is it possible that coming to and from the island in the submarine is easier than above the surface? Since all the problems seem to occur when you go through the "storm", If you are underwater you might avoid that. Right? Don't have any theories because of this, just throwing it out there.

[Robo42]

pola, i think the submarine is just a way to travel undetected. I think when the others and Dharma used it they were fully aware of the consequences that Des experienced. My opinion is that most of the Dharma gang were never going to be allowed to leave.

[TuesdaySmith]

I think that the sub may be safer to enter/exit the magnetic feild since it's under water and I believe the water would have some effect on the feild.. I'm not sure that the feild lines can travel through water.. Anyway, I think maybe it might be the safest way to get to and from the island, but I also keep wondering about how they got from Portland to the island so fast or why Juliet had to be strapped in.

[JoBlow]

Just a note that a submarine is effectively a "Faraday Cage". The occupants are completely surrounded by magnetic conducting material which shields them from the outside fields.

[agmic]

two things, one isn't the submarine destroyed???
and two, ain't no more Dharma people left, only one, and that's Ben, but he is now an other....

[bunnydixon]

i think the sub could be either or both - it could be a way to pass through whatever unharmed or it could be something to ravel in undetected or it could be a mish mash of both :D

[Hanz Gropenfondel]

I think it still experiences the same problems.
That's why the "hostiles/others" drugged Juliet before leaving to go to the island.

[michigan dad]

Didn't the Faraday ask Desmond if he had been exposed to an electromagnetic feild or radiation recently. He was in the hatch explosion and was subjected to the electromagnet feilds. That's why Sied wasn't affected like Desmond.

[Archangel-Player]

I brought this thread back up. Because it was a wounderful question and needs more adressing. Very plausable question. Well asked.
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A random thought

First I want to say that i think it's Ironic that Danial Faraday was the last name of Danial and that he chose Desmond as his Constant. Since the phisist that shares the last name inventded this below.

the Faraday constant is the amount of electric charge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_charge) per mole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_%28unit%29) of electrons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron)

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My thoughts on the sub

To anwser your question yes. I belive a Sub can be equal to that of a Faraday shield or cage. If the sub is thick enough. Most Subs are made of super thick metal. So yes it would block out MOST of the Electromagtic waves the Island gave off. This would be why the ELectromatic Genrater in the hatch was under ground in a metalic place and inclosed in a Faraday shield. It was the only place safe enought to securly store this high amount of Electromagtism . Intresting find. read this link for more details.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

[Rain13]

You guys are missing the most important point! :eek: It's not the submarine itself that's protecting the Others who have used it to travel to and from the island from the effects of the time shift and "time-tripping", it's the fact that the Others know the exact bearing at which to travel in order to not experience these effects. Remember, Daniel says very specifically to Frank that he must travel at an exact bearing in order to leave the island correctly. Frank fails to do so and strays from this bearing, and this is when Desmond starts to experience the effects. Likewise, Minkowski and his friend who tried to approach the island on their little dingy boat obviously didn't know the correct bearing and that's why he started tripping out.

Since Ben and the Others clearly know a hell of a lot more than they've let on about everything that's going on with the island, and are obviously well aware of the "time-tripping" phenomenon since they've been coming and going successfully for what seems like a long time, they know how to travel at that precise bearing in order to avoid this. Ben told Michael a specific bearing at which to travel when he was allowed to leave, and while it's uncertain whether he told him the correct bearing or not, this proves that Ben is aware of the phenomenon that Daniel Faraday suspects is occurring. Also, I've never spoken with a submarine captain before lol, but I would suspect that it would be easier to maintain a perfect bearing on a submarine than it would be on a helicopter.

This has made me think of another question: Since we know that approaching the island under normal circumstances (and not at the secret bearing that only Ben and Daniel seems to have figured out) will result in time dillation and what I will from this point on be referring to as "time-tripping" lol, what does this say about the Black Rock? It clearly approached the island at some point and landed on it, so were some of its crew members experiencing what Desmond and Minkowski are experiencing? What does this mean about their fate?

[InLikeFlynn]

Well I have my doubts that that little Sub has enought fuel to make the trip on its own. It must meet up with a surface ship when they are outside the influence of the island. By now Ben and the others have it down to a science. That may be one of the reasons why they want Ben so bad.

[mahalo_dude]

I really like this whole issue with the sub. During Juliette's flashback when she first arrived on the island via the sub, I wondered how long she was out and how long a trip it was. Subs do not travel fast like surface boats or planes.

In regards to the sub being a protective cage or a safe way to travel to and from the island, I think we will get some answers later this season via Daniel's research or Ben's manipulations. But then again, we may not!

[Archangel-Player]

"You guys are missing the most important point! It's not the submarine itself that's protecting the Others who have used it to travel to and from the island from the effects of the time shift and "time-tripping", it's the fact that the Others know the exact bearing at which to travel in order to not experience these effects. Remember, Daniel says very specifically to Frank that he must travel at an exact bearing in order to leave the island correctly. Frank fails to do so and strays from this bearing, and this is when Desmond starts to experience the effects. Likewise, Minkowski and his friend who tried to approach the island on their little dingy boat obviously didn't know the correct bearing and that's why he started tripping out."--------------------------------------------------------------------------Ok stop right there. Exlant point. All you said is true. But what about when flight 815 crashed to the was the pilot flying on the correct bearing? Good question hu? Also remeber what brought down flight 815? A giant jolt of Electromagtism. Kinda also makes you question if it truly was Desmond's faultthe plane whent down. Or was it because the plane wasn't flying on the correct bearing? Ok with that said. Why hasn't anyone from flight 815 expiranced any mind out of body time travling? Perhaps they have and that is whatthe flash backs are. To give us information about each passanger obvisly. But what if there was more to it than that?

[Rain13]

Ok stop right there. Exlant point. All you said is true. But what about when flight 815 crashed to the was the pilot flying on the correct bearing? Good question hu? Also remeber what brought down flight 815? A giant jolt of Electromagtism. Kinda also makes you question if it truly was Desmond's faultthe plane whent down. Or was it because the plane wasn't flying on the correct bearing? Ok with that said. Why hasn't anyone from flight 815 expiranced any mind out of body time travling? Perhaps they have and that is whatthe flash backs are. To give us information about each passanger obvisly. But what if there was more to it than that?

I'm not sure if I'm understanding your question 100% but the plane was definately brought down by Desmond when he didn't enter the numbers. This caused a temporary system failure until he was able to enter them and reverse the effect but not after the massive release of electromagnetic energy brought the plane down. This was confirmed in the episode where Desmond saw the printed log of the time he entered the numbers in from the Pearl station.

And to answer your second question, the flashbacks aren't "mind out of body time travelling": they're only visible to us as viewers. That's really the only way the writers could have informed us about the stories of these people before they came to the island, there's no way around that. Desmond, the only person who we've seen time travel, is pretty severely jolted and disoriented whenever he does this, and clearly that isn't shown with flashbacks that we see with other characters. Also, the reason that none of the other crash survivors have time travelled is because they haven't been exposed to the electromagnetism like Desmond has. He received the bulk of it as he was the one who turned the failsafe key.

[bunnydixon]

although it is most likely that desmond did bring the plane down, without more information, we cant be 100% certain. we dont know what bearings the plane came in on either and nothing seems to really quite gel yet. but i dont think it will until the end of the show lol!

[damon]

man. i can't wait to see what happens with the black rock ledger. the auctioneer said that it had only been seen by the hanso family, and widmore buys it at auction. i wonder if the crew of the black rock experienced the same effects of the island. hmmmm...