Is time travel a 'cop out' ??

[XmasDVD]

Is this a cop out for the show? What happened to reality? We had all kinds of theories from Season 1 on and the writers 'promised' it wouldn't be some whacky explanation - guess they changed their minds once we all were hooked on the show.

I'll take it for what it is - just disappointing that time travel will be involved.

[UnknownPoster]

I think they went to the comic book conventions and decided they would try to make the show more appealing to Star Trek nerds.

Hence Season 4.
________
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[Rain13]

I have to say I was a bit disappointed, though they're doing a great job with it so far. I still think they're sticking by their promise not to make the explanation for everything that's going on in the show "wacky" as you said. I don't think what we're seeing is "time travel" as we're imagining it is. If they start having time travel be a reality on this show, than it will truly be wacky and the slippery slope to even more wackiness has just begun. This is why I think Penny wasn't expecting Desmond's phone call and that "Present Daniel" did not in fact get a visit from Desmond. I think these seperate realities, which are happening at clearly different times, are not connected, and Desmond's actions in one will not affect the other. While they may seem just as wacky as anything, it will still ensure that there will at least be rules for how things happen.

[UnknownPoster]

In the past they have focused on certain themes and then dropped them like a hot potato leter.

I hope that happens soon with time travel.
________
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[King_Nate]

disappointed????????????????..WHAT, its totally FRESH, they obviously wouldnt tell u what it is regardless what they said in the 1rst season, they tell u what u dont want 2 hear, just like the way they write the stories...backwards!

[missjulie]

JJ Abbrams has known what the entire series would play out as since the beginning. On some commentary they say he had the first FIVE years written out when he pitched the show. Time travel isn't a cop out. Don't get so convinced that it even IS time travel. We think of time travel as bodies thru space, but here it is solely consciousness. I think they deserve some credit for that.

Now my question is five Island years or five seasons...?

[Chicagoish]

This is why I think Penny wasn't expecting Desmond's phone call and that "Present Daniel" did not in fact get a visit from Desmond. I think these seperate realities, which are happening at clearly different times, are not connected, and Desmond's actions in one will not affect the other. While they may seem just as wacky as anything, it will still ensure that there will at least be rules for how things happen.

Daniel has the notes in his book that Dez is his constant. My take on that is that Daniel does in fact remember DEZ from the past, when he visited him at the university, and thus, wrote the note in his journal. Therefore it is not separate realities.
Chris

[missjulie]

If my ex came in right now and demanded my phone number so he could call in 8 years I'd give it to him to get rid of him and then forget about it. :D

[UnknownPoster]

I am pretty sure Dan wrote teh note in his journal in 1996 because Des told him that they meet in teh future.

I am guessing Dan wouldn't remember the meeting until after he tells Des to catch the train and Des does.

This is when Dan's constant and anchor are both connected. After Des catches the train and meets him at Oxford.
________
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[though2544]

I'm glad somebody has brought this up. When we were first introduced to LOST, we watched a two-part pilot that was basically about a plane that crashes on an island with a bunch of survivors. They think rescue is coming immediately, but they must first survive the "monster" that is in the jungle.

So LOST's very first episode showed us something as "whack" as time-travel - existing in a written world were such conventions are not normal. Just like our world. So what is interesting to me is how the hell are they going to make this believable? Granted, the "monster" is still a mystery...kind of and that isn't exactly believable in a "real world" sense, but these writers are smart. They know they have a show where weird stuff happens in a real world and it can't go unexplained.

They have Jack to remind us of this. Anytime any kind of "shennanigans" goes on (the numbers, the orientation video, Locke's....whatever, Faraday talking time travel on the phone, etc.), Jack is always rolling his eyes or making his opionion heard. The time travel thing is pretty crazy and it takes the show to a completely different "LOSTness", but I think the writers know exactly where they're going with this and it will all make sense to us at some point.

[Glenn2000]

Hum...

We have a significant number of people survive a commercial airliner break up in mid-air and fall at least 300 feet to the ground; a smoke monster; people seeing dead relatives; people having miraculous recoveries from life-threatening injuries; polar bears; an electromagnetic anomaly that apparently causes the place everyone is at to be invisible to the outside world; small, general aviation airplanes take off in Africa and crash on an island in the Pacific Ocean; women who get pregnant on the island die; a doppleganger airliner in a deep ocean trench off Java - and time travel is wacky? :confused:

This reminds me of a comment about "imaginary stories" in comic books... They are ALL imaginary stories!

I didn't have any problem with the time travel sequence as it was portrayed in the program. There was no physical movement between "then" and "now." It was some sort of erratic consciousness transferral. How much different is that that Hurley's "friend" from the mental institution?

Perhaps we need to see how this plays out in further episodes of the program before we can accurately judge the validity of the episode...

[az-phil]

Perhaps we need to see how this plays out in further episodes of the program before we can accurately judge the validity of the episode...

It better start playing out better and quick. If Captain Kirk lands on the island, I'm outta here...

[bunnydixon]

i think there is more to it than just time travel although i must admit i was hoping for something not quite so sci-fi! however, what has won me over is the way in which they are suggesting the time travel works - that your physical being stays. i do like that concept.

[denniskorole]

i think there is more to it than just time travel although i must admit i was hoping for something not quite so sci-fi! however, what has won me over is the way in which they are suggesting the time travel works - that your physical being stays. i do like that concept.

I think it is more like the movie Frequency then time travel ,they find a way to communicate with someone living in the past . At no time did the Desmond from lost go back into the past ,it was more of being able to tell his self in a flashback to do something.

[missjulie]

I don't see the "Sci-Fi" of this anywhere. Time travel? Really? Is this whats going to ruin it for everyone??

Also, when has anyone seen a TV show or movie where a persons consciousness was what traveled through time??

[boyo]

I would also be disappointed if time travel is what they use to solve their mysteries. Come on, from the very start Lost seemed something much more sophisticated than your regular sci-fi show: it was a unique combination of coincidences, hi-technologies, brain-washing , mental problems, etc. Lost is watched by so many people that do not like all this cloning, aliens, time-travel, and teleportation crap and unless this is some trick by the creators to have us temporarily confused , all those people will be disappointed. And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't watch the next two seasons. I'm totally not making this up - most of my friends never watch any science fiction stuff, but are huge fans of Lost and most of them are kinda disappointed with the turn of events in Season 4.

Some people mentioned many mysteries suggesting it was sci-fi from the start, but I totally disagree. Hugo's friend is just an imaginary friend - many many people in the world have this mental problem. The polar bears were brought for an experiment, what;s wrong with that - there are polar bears in the Vienna Zoo, also in Edinburgh, and in so many other places of the north pole. The people recovering from illness - electromagnetic activity does in fact cure certain problems (and also invoke others) , and there are places on the planet with higher than usual electromagnetic activity. The monster and Jacob were the only wacky things so far, but we know so little about them that there might be a more realistic explanation to them. And still, no one was expecting that what is going on is 100% realistic, there is quite some exaggeration and speculation , but time-travel , if that's what in fact is goin on, is a bit too much for many of the viewers. I can take all the coincidence, I can take the electromagnetics that crash planes, the sat phones, etc., but time-travel is so off the mark...

[HisNameIsRobertPaulson]

Hum...

We have a significant number of people survive a commercial airliner break up in mid-air and fall at least 300 feet to the ground; a smoke monster; people seeing dead relatives; people having miraculous recoveries from life-threatening injuries; polar bears; an electromagnetic anomaly that apparently causes the place everyone is at to be invisible to the outside world; small, general aviation airplanes take off in Africa and crash on an island in the Pacific Ocean; women who get pregnant on the island die; a doppleganger airliner in a deep ocean trench off Java - and time travel is wacky? :confused:

Well stated. I think some people have an expectation of being disappointed because they story has been so compelling thus far, and they don't believe the level can be maintained. Also, as others have noted, this not the conventional time travel that we see in various sci-fi flicks. They are still maintaining the science that past or future events cannot be changed.

-HNIRP

[Rain13]

If my ex came in right now and demanded my phone number so he could call in 8 years I'd give it to him to get rid of him and then forget about it. :D

Gah I have to fight you people in every single thread I read lol. As I said in another thread, think about this: We know that Penny has been looking for Desmond for the last 3 years of her life. Clearly she has spent many millions of dollars doing so, as that station in the arctic proves, and her search must be the main focus in her life. If this is the case, than do you really believe that she would have just forgotten the last time she saw the person she was looking for, especially if the circumstances were so bizarre? No, she would not have.

[HisNameIsRobertPaulson]

Boyo-

Hugo's friend is just an imaginary friend - many many people in the world have this mental problem.

Is he? Was he? Wasn't Libby married to someone with the same name? (the person who gave her the boat) Perhaps there is more to this story....

The polar bears were brought for an experiment, what;s wrong with that - there are polar bears in the Vienna Zoo, also in Edinburgh, and in so many other places of the north pole.

Polar bears away from the north pole have to be provided with artificial environments to keep them from overheating. Any environment that existed like this for the polar bears would've ceased to exist once the bears were released.

The people recovering from illness - electromagnetic activity does in fact cure certain problems (and also invoke others) , and there are places on the planet with higher than usual electromagnetic activity.

Locke was able to walk again, the other lady no longer has cancer, the possible magic fertility for Jin (questionable as of yet), Locke's recovery from the bullet wound (what stopped the bleeding?)

The monster and Jacob were the only wacky things so far, but we know so little about them that there might be a more realistic explanation to them.

These are fare wackier, IMHO, than anything they've presented with "time travel."

There's also Desmond escaping a hatch that imploded (and where his clothes went). The lack of destruction of the shell of the plane. It's not at all practical to assume that the parts that crashed on land would have been in as good of shape as they were in.

There has been plenty of circumstances which require the suspension of disbelief, and most of them have not been explained. For me, at least, this new time-travel element does not require much more of an effort for the suspension of disbelief.

And still, no one was expecting that what is going on is 100% realistic, there is quite some exaggeration and speculation , but time-travel , if that's what in fact is goin on, is a bit too much for many of the viewers. I can take all the coincidence, I can take the electromagnetics that crash planes, the sat phones, etc., but time-travel is so off the mark...

As much as I don't understand this perspective, I cannot disagree with it. My wife is not happy about the "time travel," but I'm going to point out to her all the other things that she's seemingly accepted.

-HNIRP

[beachblinkette]

Pardon me if i don't believe everything everybody says all of the teh time! Teh writers could say whatever and I don't exactly blame them for allowing themselves to be swayed by new input, ideas, etc.In fact it might be rather boring to have it all cut and dried.So Mr. A .included, I'd feel better if he left teh door open-at least a crack until teh end!

[UnknownPoster]

I'm willing to put up with this time travel stuff - I mean I am not going to quit watching but I keep feeling like "This is not what I signed up for"

I hope we are now introduced to the concept and it is not the main focus for the rest of the series.
________
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[lostNspace]

I remember back when teh show started, when some sort of a monster was in the jungle. I thought "great, they landed on Jurassic Park". Well that turned out to be wrong, although it was filmed there (I think). Teh show has always been a good balance of science and faith. If you don't like teh mood on the island wait a couple days.

[beachblinkette]

I totally agree about hoping it's not all time travel 'cause my brain gets very mixed up trying to decipher all that. I also agree about your saying just wait awhile because it will hopefully go in another direction soon.IMO. I love pasta, but not for every meal!

[Rain13]

I guess I'm just hoping that it's time "Time Travel" in the traditional sense that time travel has been addressed in most fiction. Reason being not because it is too far-fetched or science fiction for me, hell if you can't deal with sci-fi don't watch a show about plane crash survivors on an island with smoke monsters, but just because I know that time travel is very difficult to deal with. It's so unknowable and theoretical and defies our understanding of reality, it will just be a real tricky thing for them to pull off in a way that is satisfying to me.

[gingergrant]

Quantum Leap, Slaughterhouse 5

[bunnydixon]

I guess I'm just hoping that it's time "Time Travel" in the traditional sense that time travel has been addressed in most fiction. Reason being not because it is too far-fetched or science fiction for me, hell if you can't deal with sci-fi don't watch a show about plane crash survivors on an island with smoke monsters, but just because I know that time travel is very difficult to deal with. It's so unknowable and theoretical and defies our understanding of reality, it will just be a real tricky thing for them to pull off in a way that is satisfying to me.


i hate sci fi and i love lost! dont think you can bracket it like that.

however, like i said previously and like you have said, this is not time travel in the way we are used to. and there is much more to it than JUST time travel.

[wwgifted]

I'm not sure it's time travel at all. Second world perhaps. I thought Desmond left Penny for his solo trip around the world when he broke up with her and then got stranded on the island. Penny who knew, he was lost at sea had been searching for him ever since. I was surprised by the military placement of Des and his short coif.

[UnknownPoster]

This should lead us to see how Des ended up in military prison. AWOL? Or something else more serious?
________
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[King_Nate]

....jeeez quit crying about something u dont know anything about, we as viewers didnt know anything about the island, the "losties" dont know anything about the island, so how can u be "DISAPPOINTED" about something u dont know anything about,its funny! Try and let the course of the show take its course!

[bunnydixon]

so you wouldnt be gutted if it was all a dream? ;)

[King_Nate]

yea bunnny maybee they are all still on the flight and just all asleep!

[bunnydixon]

now that would be a cop out!!!

[Turnip Queen]

I totally agree about hoping it's not all time travel 'cause my brain gets very mixed up trying to decipher all that. I also agree about your saying just wait awhile because it will hopefully go in another direction soon.IMO. I love pasta, but not for every meal!

I thought I was the only one who felt this way! I do hope there's a bit more to it than this, and I think there is - there are too many seperate things involved to be all about time travel, but I hope we have a few easier things to understand soon!

[chococat512]

I would also be disappointed if time travel is what they use to solve their mysteries. Come on, from the very start Lost seemed something much more sophisticated than your regular sci-fi show: it was a unique combination of coincidences, hi-technologies, brain-washing , mental problems, etc. Lost is watched by so many people that do not like all this cloning, aliens, time-travel, and teleportation crap and unless this is some trick by the creators to have us temporarily confused , all those people will be disappointed. And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't watch the next two seasons. I'm totally not making this up - most of my friends never watch any science fiction stuff, but are huge fans of Lost and most of them are kinda disappointed with the turn of events in Season 4.

Some people mentioned many mysteries suggesting it was sci-fi from the start, but I totally disagree. Hugo's friend is just an imaginary friend - many many people in the world have this mental problem. The polar bears were brought for an experiment, what;s wrong with that - there are polar bears in the Vienna Zoo, also in Edinburgh, and in so many other places of the north pole. The people recovering from illness - electromagnetic activity does in fact cure certain problems (and also invoke others) , and there are places on the planet with higher than usual electromagnetic activity. The monster and Jacob were the only wacky things so far, but we know so little about them that there might be a more realistic explanation to them. And still, no one was expecting that what is going on is 100% realistic, there is quite some exaggeration and speculation , but time-travel , if that's what in fact is goin on, is a bit too much for many of the viewers. I can take all the coincidence, I can take the electromagnetics that crash planes, the sat phones, etc., but time-travel is so off the mark...
most people i know stopped watchinf after season 3, and i must admit, i was a little dissappointed with that season and this season as well. i love lost but i have a feeling when all the questions get answered i'm going to be dissatisfied. BTW, are they gonna tie EVERY thing in like "why is walt on a milk carton?" or little easy to miss things like that? i sure hope so

[XmasDVD]

so you wouldnt be gutted if it was all a dream? ;)

Now *THAT* would be a cop-out for sure.

[PacmanIsLost]

it seems like too many people are getting bogged down by all this sci-fi talk and such... and it's really all about personal prejudices... the only people who really seem upset about this being at all sci-fi related are people who define themselves as hating sci-fi... or that sci-fi is so low rent or implausible... but they'll go along with all this other fantastical fiction in the show but if sci-fi related things come up they flip out... i think this says a lot more about the people complaining than it does about the show... now think for a minute and imagine that it is a very sci-fi related show but instead of the normal fare, it's incredibly well done! what a concept! oh my god, just imagine the horror of someone who hates sci-fi being sucked into this show they think is an island fantasy and it ends up being sci-fi related, and yet they still like the show overall... how horrible is that? god forbid LOST be the show that can span all these genres and break down barriers and entertain people with something that they are against being entertained by!

frankly, this is just getting ridiculous with all the complaining about genres...LOST has set itself apart from everything else in one sense, but all the while it has become a post-modern conglomerate juggernaut of endless references to all sorts of religions, books, films, tv shows, scientific ideas, etc... and I for one, just don't see what all the negative fuss is about... if you don't like it...turn it off and stop acting like you care by posting on a forum for fans who are more than happy to keep drinking the LOST kool-aid :)

[XmasDVD]

frankly, this is just getting ridiculous with all the complaining about genres...LOST has set itself apart from everything else in one sense, but all the while it has become a post-modern conglomerate juggernaut of endless references to all sorts of religions, books, films, tv shows, scientific ideas, etc... and I for one, just don't see what all the negative fuss is about... if you don't like it...turn it off and stop acting like you care by posting on a forum for fans who are more than happy to keep drinking the LOST kool-aid :)

...you mean like this??

http://xmasdvd.com/koolaid.png

[Lostie64]

it seems like too many people are getting bogged down by all this sci-fi talk and such... and it's really all about personal prejudices... the only people who really seem upset about this being at all sci-fi related are people who define themselves as hating sci-fi... or that sci-fi is so low rent or implausible... but they'll go along with all this other fantastical fiction in the show but if sci-fi related things come up they flip out... i think this says a lot more about the people complaining than it does about the show... now think for a minute and imagine that it is a very sci-fi related show but instead of the normal fare, it's incredibly well done! what a concept! oh my god, just imagine the horror of someone who hates sci-fi being sucked into this show they think is an island fantasy and it ends up being sci-fi related, and yet they still like the show overall... how horrible is that? god forbid LOST be the show that can span all these genres and break down barriers and entertain people with something that they are against being entertained by!

frankly, this is just getting ridiculous with all the complaining about genres...LOST has set itself apart from everything else in one sense, but all the while it has become a post-modern conglomerate juggernaut of endless references to all sorts of religions, books, films, tv shows, scientific ideas, etc... and I for one, just don't see what all the negative fuss is about... if you don't like it...turn it off and stop acting like you care by posting on a forum for fans who are more than happy to keep drinking the LOST kool-aid :)

Couldn't agree more. There is still A LOT more to learn. Entertainment Weekly ran an article in last weeks' issue and they said that this season will focus on the freighter people, and on "Jacob". Oh..and Michael is supposed to re-appear.

There is an element of "time travel", but to fully explain the whole, entire, show....there is a lot more to learn.

Now pass the Kool-Aid......:D

[Lostie64]

...you mean like this??

http://xmasdvd.com/koolaid.png


Love the Dharma logo!:p:D

[Rain13]

Good call, Pacman. Bunny, don't say you hate Sci-Fi because you don't! If you like Lost, you like Sci-Fi. I'll explain why Lost is a 100% Sci-Fi show later...The problem is, when most people hear Sci-Fi they picture aliens and space ships and things that seem ridiculous and silly. This is due to the fact that Sci-Fi has been a "fringe" genre for a long time, and therefore most of the Sci-Fi shows and movies out there tend to be less well-done and "cheesy". This may not be the best example, but take for instance Bossa Nova music (for those of you who don't know, Bossa Nova is a type of music that started in the 60's and combined Jazz with Brazillian Samba). When you play the average American a Bossa Nova song, they immediately associate it with cheap elevator music or corny TV shows and dismiss it. Is this because Bossa Nova itself is a bad form of music? No, it's beautiful music and is just as worthwhile as any other form of Jazz. All this means is that most people's only exposure to Bossa Nova was to cheap, watered-down music in Elevators made by people from Philadelphia. This is the way it is with Sci-Fi, and this has conditioned people to dismiss any story, (and by story I mean book, movie, TV show, whatever), that defies reality as being stupid. To me, the only thing that makes a story "Sci-Fi" is if there are plot elements that defy our understanding of the world we live in. There doesn't have to be aliens or monsters or even time travel for a story to be Sci-Fi, it just has to have something in it that we don't think could happen in our real lives due to the laws of science and reality.

From the first episode, Lost came right out and said "there are things in this show that will blow your mind!". The second we found out about that monster and Walt's "special powers" we knew that the writers weren't going to stick only to plot elements that are "realistic". It may seem like they're going further off the deep end by including things like time travel, but is time travel really that much more far-fetched than a 7 year old kid with telekinetic powers or polar bears on a tropical island? I don't think so. Hell, everyone thought it was cool when billows of smoke started picking people up and throwing them around, after transforming into people. Unless aliens show up on the island I will gladly follow whatever far-fetched notions the writers throw at us, because that's what stories should be. Since the first story was told thousands and thousands of years ago, we've used them to test the limits of our imagination, and I think it's sad that some people frown upon doing so these days.

[PacmanIsLost]

Right on Rain... i agree with you completely and much of what you said is the exact same sentiment that i was trying to put across...i'm just glad i'm not the only one who feels this way

[King_Nate]

the writer/ producers ..said in the very beggining that it was gonna have a, unnatural backbone 2 the story, so if u dont like sci-fi ..i guess go watch ...prison break...if thats more REAL 2 you, but i think surviving on an island is more real than a FAKE break out!! just my thoughts, and i still dont understand how people cant respect what the writers have put in front of your eyes every thursday 4 the past 3-4 years.......what other show comes close 2 the product that gets put out!!!

[az-phil]

Wow, never seen so many people with their panties in a wad :p

I'm a sci-fi fan, but always enjoyed Lost because it seemed to toy with untapped areas.

I'd be a bit disappointed if it went more the direction of played out sci-fi topics like time travel, but I will probably never stop watching. My wife watches more for the interesting characters and their complex internal struggles, and I don't think she is going to stick with it much longer if they keep going deep into things like time travel.

So back to the original post, "Is time travel a cop out?". The jury is still out for me, and I'm hopeful that the last episode was just setting the ground work for some great "unique" stuff...

[az-phil]

Oh, and I'm a fan of Prison Break, 24, most of the Star Trek series, ER, Battlestar Galactica, older Stargate, Farscape... Wow, I really am a geek :(

[bunnydixon]

yes - i DO hate sci-fi. i guess my interpretation of sci fi is a little different than yours. god help me! monster and aliens dont necessarily represent sci-fi to me. i think thats a little narrow minded telling people what THEY think something is and why they are wrong.

i love lost as its more than sci-fi! okay there may be elements in it but its not a sci-fi show! i love the mystery and the supernatural element. there are many levels to it and i can appreciate it on more than 1.

i cant believe people are getting pissed that others dont like one element to the show. so what - how boring would it be if we all 100% loved it. and yes, we are fully entitled to be disappointed no matter how groundbreaking and fabulous a show it is!

[Meditate]

I like sci-fi, but let me say this first so it has something to do with Lost... has anyone read "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman? If you have you might be intrigued as I am about the time gap.

But if I seem like a nerd because I read... uh - we all read a novel's worth on here twice a week I bet:)

[XmasDVD]

I like Sci-Fi - but I like to go into a movie/show knowing what I am getting - is it reality-based or way out there? Time Traveling feel like a 'cop out' to me - like the writers painted themselves into a corner - "we have a smoke monster, visions of dead relatives, and all sorts of weird and unexplainable things happening on this show - I know, let's blame time traveling..."

If that was the plan all along, we should have seen some hints at this. of courze, now we're expected to make the leap that some things in Season 1,2,3 can be explained because of this. Again, a cop out.

Things like "..oh a Polar Bear is there because he time traveled from the pole to the island..."

My point is that there should be a plan in place for logically explaining things, like the writers have been saying for 3 years now. I know they were making it up as they went along in the beginning, but now that they have so many loose ends to tie up, I am disappointed that Time Traveling (in any form) is the answer.

It's insulting in a way to the fans intelligence. I can't wait to find out that Area 51 is linked to this and the Bermuda Triangle and Stonehenge...more cop outs.

[boyo]

What the sci-fi fans here don't get is that not every one likes sci-fi shows. In fact, Lost has been so great that many people that DON'T EVEN WATCH TV SHOWS can't wait for thursday to come and see the new episode. I myself , for example, very rarely watch tv shows (and I don't even know what Prison Break is about so don't go with that Lost vs Prison Break crap) and for the past couple of years Lost is the only one I watch and many of my friends are the same. Lost is (was) not your regular show: First, it's superbly filmed, more like a real movie, rather than a tv series. Second, it's very special in it's mysteries, all those links with the real world, all the REAL science incorporated in the show, the conspiracy stuff (the special secret research that is goin on, etc.). Third, it involves so many people and stories - there are some 30 important characters so far - this is far beyond any other show. When you combine the three things you get a very special and complex show that appeals not only to the die-hard tv series fans: People that only watch movies would like it. People that only watch the Discovery channel and Nat Geo would like it. People that are not from the US would like it. And so forth. But what started in season 3 (Jacob) and what has been happening in the last 2-3 episodes goes on a totally different and very specific line - the time travel things (especially when they happen in a pathetic lab, duh!) can easily ruin it for many. And I also believe the writers did not have this in mind at the beginning, but they saw that many fan-theories were about time travel , cloning, parallel universes ,etc. that they thought they might get away with it...

At the end of the day, everyone likes a good mystery, but there are just different definitions and different opinions of what makes a good mystery. Some enjoy the endless possibilities (sci-fi), others want it to be close to real world.

[georgebushisaretard]

Ha Ha, I can't believe some people have not (in four years!) realised that Lost is a 'sci-fi' show and are starting to slag it off! Although, to be fair, the term, 'Sci-fi', is broadly (and wrongly) used to cover all aspects of speculative fiction, these days.
If a show has monsters and/or spaceships that make noises when travelling through the vacuum of space (i.e. not particularly grounded in true science), then that is actually, science/space fantasy, this 'sub-genre' accounts for most of the cheap, tiresome fare that has been released upon us as 'Sci-fi'; Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. (by the way, I'm not dissin these shows - I actually like them - they're just not proper science fiction.)

Here are a couple of what I like to call proper science fiction movies; Gattica (1997), Charly (1968), this list is a bit limited as I can't think of any more at the moment.

And, regarding the way the time-travel element is being shown in Lost (the temporal transferring of consciousness), this idea was used in, 'Trancers', a low budget (but charming) movie from 1985.

So most of the people on the island could be there as future projections of themselves. They could all be being manipulated from their normal timeframes and put into a future situation to play out various 'strategies' until an end result is finally reached, and then returned to their original timeframe without too much time passing, but unlike Desmond they might not remember the alternative time zone when they go back/forward.

In a similar way the actual Oceanic 815 could be on the island AND under the Pacific (albeit with cloned/fabricated crew and passengers) at the same time!

Discuss...

[bunnydixon]

but what about the people who like sci fi and hate the time travelling in lost or the folks who hate sci fi but like the time travelling in lost? dont think you can categorise so easily with this show! lol!

[lockeintomyeyes]

I think that the writers of lost know what they are doing with the story line. We just have to trust what they are doing. I mean look at all the discussion on this show. I bet the Brady Bunch never had this many people talking about it! I love trying to figure it out. I think everyone does a good job of explaining their theories too.

[Lostie64]

Totally agree but wish to add one more element to your thoughts.

The main reason people love LOST is because they care about the characters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You could have all of the weirdness and thought-provoking concepts mixed with sci-fi sensibilities all day long...if the characters aren't engaging, unique, interesting, etc....we aren't going to watch!

That is one of the things you learn when writing fiction. You could have a fantastic plot and bore the reader to tears by not having an engaging protagonist or cast of characters. In the case of LOST, there are dozens of engaging characters with complex pasts and we genuinely care about what happens to them.

At the end of the day, this is exactly why we watch!!!!!! We want to know that they will make it ok..on or OFF the island! This is what drives us to know and understand the mysteries of LOST. We love these people and they have gotten into our heads and hearts; even if they are complex, have shady pasts, etc.....this is what drives us to discover the mysteries of the island.

What the sci-fi fans here don't get is that not every one likes sci-fi shows. In fact, Lost has been so great that many people that DON'T EVEN WATCH TV SHOWS can't wait for thursday to come and see the new episode. I myself , for example, very rarely watch tv shows (and I don't even know what Prison Break is about so don't go with that Lost vs Prison Break crap) and for the past couple of years Lost is the only one I watch and many of my friends are the same. Lost is (was) not your regular show: First, it's superbly filmed, more like a real movie, rather than a tv series. Second, it's very special in it's mysteries, all those links with the real world, all the REAL science incorporated in the show, the conspiracy stuff (the special secret research that is goin on, etc.). Third, it involves so many people and stories - there are some 30 important characters so far - this is far beyond any other show. When you combine the three things you get a very special and complex show that appeals not only to the die-hard tv series fans: People that only watch movies would like it. People that only watch the Discovery channel and Nat Geo would like it. People that are not from the US would like it. And so forth. But what started in season 3 (Jacob) and what has been happening in the last 2-3 episodes goes on a totally different and very specific line - the time travel things (especially when they happen in a pathetic lab, duh!) can easily ruin it for many. And I also believe the writers did not have this in mind at the beginning, but they saw that many fan-theories were about time travel , cloning, parallel universes ,etc. that they thought they might get away with it...

At the end of the day, everyone likes a good mystery, but there are just different definitions and different opinions of what makes a good mystery. Some enjoy the endless possibilities (sci-fi), others want it to be close to real world.

[lost4lost]

I'm not sure it's time travel at all. Second world perhaps. I thought Desmond left Penny for his solo trip around the world when he broke up with her and then got stranded on the island. Penny who knew, he was lost at sea had been searching for him ever since. I was surprised by the military placement of Des and his short coif.

I think that Desmond was sailing around the world in the solo boater race to impress Penny's father so he could win her hand in marriage. If I remember correctly, (I apologize if I don't, I've only seen the episodes once) I thought Desmond and Penny had just broken up, again apparently, and he was leaving to sail in the race to prove a point. I'm thinking that the army Desmond and Penny were long before the sailing Desmond and Penny, which would explain why she looked for him for three years considering she could care less at the point in time when Desmond asked for her number.

[nirvonyx]

Is this a cop out for the show? What happened to reality? We had all kinds of theories from Season 1 on and the writers 'promised' it wouldn't be some whacky explanation - guess they changed their minds once we all were hooked on the show.

I'll take it for what it is - just disappointing that time travel will be involved.

i'm not convinced as of yet that "time travel" is going to be explaining a thing. it's presented to us as "a side effect." and that's it. just another strange thing so far, about as consistent with reality as most of what we've seen so far.

[Rain13]

yes - i DO hate sci-fi. i guess my interpretation of sci fi is a little different than yours. god help me! monster and aliens dont necessarily represent sci-fi to me. i think thats a little narrow minded telling people what THEY think something is and why they are wrong.

i love lost as its more than sci-fi! okay there may be elements in it but its not a sci-fi show! i love the mystery and the supernatural element. there are many levels to it and i can appreciate it on more than 1.

i cant believe people are getting pissed that others dont like one element to the show. so what - how boring would it be if we all 100% loved it. and yes, we are fully entitled to be disappointed no matter how groundbreaking and fabulous a show it is!

What definition of Sci-Fi are you using? Because according to dictionary.com, it is as follows:

a form of fiction that draws imaginatively on scientific knowledge and speculation in its plot, setting, theme, etc.

- or -

literary fantasy involving the imagined impact of science on society

These two definitions clearly embody what Lost is about. I'm not trying to attack your tastes in shows or anything, if you don't like Sci-Fi that's fine with me. All I'm saying is that it seems awfully narrow-minded to say that you hate Sci-Fi when we're on a forum for a clearly Sci-Fi show. Maybe your interpretation of Sci-Fi is different than mine, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a word with a true definition, and according to the true definition, which is the one that I'm using and I think most of us here are, Lost is definately Sci-Fi.

[bunnydixon]

have you not just completely contradicted yourself there?

i have at no point said that lost is not sci fi. i have said it is not JUST sci-fi. tv shows can often be a cross over of various genres, things are not always so clear cut and as black and white as this show is sci fi, this show is comedy etc...i am not being narrow minded, in fact you are by categorising. i love back to the future - a comedy with sci-fi elements although it is primarily the comedy and the characters who draw me to it, i will take the sci-fi too as i am not gonna turn my nose up at everything thats has sci fi elements within then yet i dont enjoy films that are truly sci-fi to the core as thats just not my cup of tea. you cannot tell someone what their perceptions are of something as thats a personal thing. and if you think you can, then that is incredibly niave.

not everything is textbook.

[Rain13]

Well you said it's not a Sci-Fi show right here: "i love lost as its more than sci-fi! okay there may be elements in it but its not a sci-fi show!" I don't understand how you can acknowledge that the plot of the show is driven almost entirely by Sci-Fi concepts but then claim it's not a Sci-Fi show. Again, I'm not trying to blast your opinion, I'm just saying that for you to say that you "hate Sci-Fi" seems awfully inaccurate given that you clearly love a Sci-Fi show.

I think what you're saying is this, correct me if I'm wrong: "Lost is not a Sci-Fi show because even though it does have a Sci-Fi plotline and many Sci-Fi elements, it has many other redeeming qualities that make it more than just a Sci-Fi show". I understand your point, because Lost does seem quite different than something like "Battlefield Earth" which lacks any redeeming qualities besides it very Sci-Fi story. However, something can be Sci-Fi and also have instances of comedy, great character development, and elements of action and drama. Sci-Fi is just a label that states that the show contains many elements regarding futuristic science and happenings that require a significant suspension of disbelief. This is certainly fulfilled by Lost.

But this is a silly argument. We are both correct in our own regard: Lost is more than just a Sci-Fi show as you have said and it also is certainly a Sci-Fi show. We're both here to discuss the show and I think we should put aside our disagreements about this.

[bunnydixon]

the problem is rain, you dont discuss, you TELL people what they think, what their perceptions are and do it in an agressive, arrogant, patronising fashion. you need to be more open minded and understand that perhaps sometimes its actually YOU who has misinterpreted things.

[Jchramer]

I am pretty sure Dan wrote teh note in his journal in 1996 because Des told him that they meet in teh future.

I am guessing Dan wouldn't remember the meeting until after he tells Des to catch the train and Des does.

This is when Dan's constant and anchor are both connected. After Des catches the train and meets him at Oxford.



I think when Dan tells Desmond to meet him at Oxford, at that moment, it becomes the memory. If that is the case, then the past and future change at the same time. It makes sense in my mind...

[boyo]

These two definitions clearly embody what Lost is about. I'm not trying to attack your tastes in shows or anything, if you don't like Sci-Fi that's fine with me. All I'm saying is that it seems awfully narrow-minded to say that you hate Sci-Fi when we're on a forum for a clearly Sci-Fi show. Maybe your interpretation of Sci-Fi is different than mine, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a word with a true definition, and according to the true definition, which is the one that I'm using and I think most of us here are, Lost is definately Sci-Fi.

Oh come on. OPEN YOUR EYES (and look north).

I'd exactly use your definition: "a form of fiction that draws imaginatively on scientific knowledge and speculation in its plot, setting, theme, etc."

The fact that when you see, for example, an African plane on an island in the pacific, your immediate and only explanation is "wormholes" or stg like this, does not mean that this is THE ONLY possibility and that everyone else thinks like you. Many do not even consider such an option, but have other theories.

Just look at this site - see how many different theories there are for every single thing on the island. As many people pointed out already, this show, so far, has been balancing in the middle and people have seen it differently and watched it for different reasons. With the last several episodes the show is ruining this balance and taking a specific route. All we're saying is that we don't enjoy this route and as a consequence, if they don't surprise us again with something else (which I believe they'll do) , many people might not be watching the next seasons.

[ortrules]

I can't believe so many people believe that time travel is the big mystery behind the show. There is only ONE prominent character who has experienced time travel - Desmond. And that time travel was for all of two episodes now (this past one, and the first one after the hatch exploded). The only other time that time travel was suggested was with Daniel's time delay experiment with the rocket, showing that the island time was 31 minutes off. It's funny how many people get in a uproar over 31 minutes of time travel.

The whole time thing is just another one of the many secrets behind Lost - for all we know, it's not even a major point of the show.

[bunnydixon]

agreed ort!

[mahalo_dude]

I can't believe so many people believe that time travel is the big mystery behind the show. There is only ONE prominent character who has experienced time travel - Desmond. And that time travel was for all of two episodes now (this past one, and the first one after the hatch exploded). The only other time that time travel was suggested was with Daniel's time delay experiment with the rocket, showing that the island time was 31 minutes off. It's funny how many people get in a uproar over 31 minutes of time travel.

The whole time thing is just another one of the many secrets behind Lost - for all we know, it's not even a major point of the show.

Don't forget the helicopter ride of 40 miles that should have taken 20 minutes but took over a day...

[Rain13]

I'm not sure what you're saying Boyo. All I'm saying is that Lost has been a Sci-Fi show since the pilot since it's plot has centered around elements that deal with imaginative uses of science and hypothetical scientific possibilities. Once the door was opened for things like this, we as viewers should have been aware that anything was possible. I've never said anything about wormholes being the only possibility here?

[ortrules]

Don't forget the helicopter ride of 40 miles that should have taken 20 minutes but took over a day...
Again, yes, there's a mystery revolving around time - but that is NOT the major plot of the show. Time doesn't even begin to explain other things on the island like the smoke monster, pregnant women dying, etc. It's just ONE piece of the puzzle.

[bunnydixon]

on a slightly different note - i love the paranormal aspect of the show and the psyhcology of the show - why ben was driven to participate in the purge etc...

when i first watched the pilot i was shouting about jurassic park lol! and purgatory! not a peep about time travel! rain, you really have to understand that people do see the show in a different way, nobody is denying that you see it as sci-fi but you have to stop telling people what the show is to them.

[lockeintomyeyes]

on a slightly different note - i love the paranormal aspect of the show and the psyhcology of the show - why ben was driven to participate in the purge etc...

when i first watched the pilot i was shouting about jurassic park lol! and purgatory! not a peep about time travel! rain, you really have to understand that people do see the show in a different way, nobody is denying that you see it as sci-fi but you have to stop telling people what the show is to them.

You go Bunny! I think that is the fun of this show just when you think it is Jurassic park it turns into something else.

[Rain13]

Again, I still think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. A Sci-Fi show is simply a show that includes elements of hypothetical science and imaginative speculation about things that we may not view as being possible in our world. The fact that many people watch Lost solely because they love to hear Sawyer's wise-cracks and hear about the characters' pasts does not change the fact that it's a Sci-Fi show. If you truly despise the plotline and only watch the show for these reasons I just mentioned, than it would make sense to say that you hate Sci-Fi. But I think that almost every one of us here holds in common the fact that we all enjoy the plotline and that's why we're sitting here speculating about it.

[Rain13]

And don't forget, Jurassic Park is Sci-Fi and so would be a show that consisted of plane crash survivors arriving in purgatory.

[ortrules]

And don't forget, Jurassic Park is Sci-Fi
Nuh-uh...I've been there. Extracting DNA from a mosquito can totally allow you to create dinosaurs.

[bunnydixon]

not to me its not! lol! maybe i am not dictionary defined!

dinosaurs are not bunnys definition of science fiction (they existed so not fiction!) nor is purgatory (religious concept). to me its a show that has sci fi elements but is not sci fi in its purest form! thats what i think - i respect you feel differently so you are just gonna have to accept that this is how i see the show :D

[mahalo_dude]

Again, yes, there's a mystery revolving around time - but that is NOT the major plot of the show. Time doesn't even begin to explain other things on the island like the smoke monster, pregnant women dying, etc. It's just ONE piece of the puzzle.


Well, the copter ride involved major characters. And the time issue is the topic of the moment. As soon as the smoke monster takes another life or Walt & Michael show up or Vincent learns showtunes, the time issue will take take a back seat.

[Rain13]

Nuh-uh...I've been there. Extracting DNA from a mosquito can totally allow you to create dinosaurs.

Nuh-uh! I just saw a show on Discovery last week about this lol. I forget what it was called but it was all about the concept of genetically engineering dinosaurs. They spent the first part of the show with the idea of harvesting dinosaur DNA from mosquito's trapped in Amber, (with far too few nods to Jurassic Park imo), and concluded that it would be impossible. The consensus is that the method that they would use would be "reverse engineering" by genetically altering one of the close relatives of a dinosaur, like an Emu or chicken, and hoping to re-activate strands of DNA that had been turned off due to evolution. The theory is that nearly 100% of the DNA required to make a dinosaur is still present in bird DNA, but that it's just not being activated.

Bunny, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. Your point is that the show isn't Sci-Fi but has elements of Sci-Fi, my point is that something that has elements of Sci-Fi is Sci-Fi, we're not going to convince each other. Just because the dictionary is on my side doesn't mean I'm right I guess...:cool: ;)

[ortrules]

Well, the copter ride involved major characters. And the time issue is the topic of the moment. As soon as the smoke monster takes another life or Walt & Michael show up or Vincent learns showtunes, the time issue will take take a back seat.
I understand that completely. It's just that I can't believe people are in such an uproar about this one issue and are under the assumption that the entire Lost series and mysteries therein will be solved by "time travel." We are in season 4, out of a total of 6, and I find it very hard to believe that the writer's have already unveiled their master plan for the ending of the show.

[bunnydixon]

what does the dictionary know :p

words are beautiful because they are adaptable - not what you use, how you use them :)

[Lostie64]

Hey! I saw that, too. It was really interesting.

Nuh-uh! I just saw a show on Discovery last week about this lol. I forget what it was called but it was all about the concept of genetically engineering dinosaurs. They spent the first part of the show with the idea of harvesting dinosaur DNA from mosquito's trapped in Amber, (with far too few nods to Jurassic Park imo), and concluded that it would be impossible. The consensus is that the method that they would use would be "reverse engineering" by genetically altering one of the close relatives of a dinosaur, like an Emu or chicken, and hoping to re-activate strands of DNA that had been turned off due to evolution. The theory is that nearly 100% of the DNA required to make a dinosaur is still present in bird DNA, but that it's just not being activated.

Bunny, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. Your point is that the show isn't Sci-Fi but has elements of Sci-Fi, my point is that something that has elements of Sci-Fi is Sci-Fi, we're not going to convince each other. Just because the dictionary is on my side doesn't mean I'm right I guess...:cool: ;)

[ortrules]

Yea? Well I've been to Jurassic Park and I saw dinosaurs...oh! And then the T-Rex got loose in a major city and destoyed my home - so I moved to the east coast where this crazy stuff doesn't happen.

(And I realize that DNA from a mosquito cannot be used to created dinosaurs and how ridiculous that claim is to begin with.)

[mahalo_dude]

Well, I agree with you in that the mystery of the smoke monster, for example, will not be answered by the time travel dilemma. More like another couple of Ben beatings for that...

I guess the time issue is hot right now because it has so many possibilities and avenues. I'm not the biggest fan of it. I'd rather see something else. But for what it's worth, it IS being told in an entertaining manner.

[bunnydixon]

oh lawdy lol!

[Ureval]

People have complained since Season 2 that Lost asks too many question and doesnt give enough answers. The way I see it is that the show takes numerous threads, each of them distinct, and weaves them together to give us the who picture.

Time travel, or rather time anomolies, are just one aspect of the show that contributes to the entire picture.

You want my guess? I think that when JJ sat down and thought up this show his desire was to make the best show ever, and take elements from numerous subjects and weave them together to create something special.

If I were to say what i think the Lost island is, i would say that it is the hub of all the unexplained phenomena in the world - psychic phenemona, paranormal phenemona, time anomolies, electromagnetic manipulation, "miracles", the nature of fate and destiny, philosophy, doomsday predictions, and Im sure you could add some more to the list.

All of it has intrigued humanity since the beginning, and tying all of those things together to create a sort of mega-myth is what I believe the writers intention is. And God bless em for it.

If you look at each of the characters they all seem to embody some sort of piece of the puzzle. Jack and his unbelief, Locke and his "miracle", Walt and his power, Desmond and Faraday and Time Travel, Miles and perhaps Hurley with their ability to see ghosts, Claire and her anti-christ son Aaron, etc.

My guess is the whole Time travel thing is just an element that the writers use Desmond to focus on, and without a doubt we all are intrigued by Time travel. As we start to understand the seperate threads of the story of Lost, my opinion is that it will all come down to fate and destiny, and the doomsday plot and whether our heroes will be able to overcome their pasts and find a balance between faith and science.

Overcoming personal issues seems to be a huge part of the show, and in the end I think all the great sci-fi and philosophical themes will serve to underscore the awesome personal drama.

I think a great example of this, is how despite all the crazy time stuff going on, what really hit us on this weeks episode was Penny and Desmond finally speaking.

[Lostie64]

Very well said!:)

People have complained since Season 2 that Lost asks too many question and doesnt give enough answers. The way I see it is that the show takes numerous threads, each of them distinct, and weaves them together to give us the who picture.

Time travel, or rather time anomolies, are just one aspect of the show that contributes to the entire picture.

You want my guess? I think that when JJ sat down and thought up this show his desire was to make the best show ever, and take elements from numerous subjects and weave them together to create something special.

If I were to say what i think the Lost island is, i would say that it is the hub of all the unexplained phenomena in the world - psychic phenemona, paranormal phenemona, time anomolies, electromagnetic manipulation, "miracles", the nature of fate and destiny, philosophy, doomsday predictions, and Im sure you could add some more to the list.

All of it has intrigued humanity since the beginning, and tying all of those things together to create a sort of mega-myth is what I believe the writers intention is. And God bless em for it.

If you look at each of the characters they all seem to embody some sort of piece of the puzzle. Jack and his unbelief, Locke and his "miracle", Walt and his power, Desmond and Faraday and Time Travel, Miles and perhaps Hurley with their ability to see ghosts, Claire and her anti-christ son Aaron, etc.

My guess is the whole Time travel thing is just an element that the writers use Desmond to focus on, and without a doubt we all are intrigued by Time travel. As we start to understand the seperate threads of the story of Lost, my opinion is that it will all come down to fate and destiny, and the doomsday plot and whether our heroes will be able to overcome their pasts and find a balance between faith and science.

Overcoming personal issues seems to be a huge part of the show, and in the end I think all the great sci-fi and philosophical themes will serve to underscore the awesome personal drama.

I think a great example of this, is how despite all the crazy time stuff going on, what really hit us on this weeks episode was Penny and Desmond finally speaking.

[XmasDVD]

to me, think of LOST like this...

remember when scifi fans and whoever were getting all excited over this new film called "01-18-08"?? As it got closer to being released there was word that this is *NOT* a Godzilla movie. OK fine. Then the title changed to "Cloverfield" and more and more peopls said it was like a Godzilla movie and the movie creators kept saying nope. Once it came out, Yes indeed - another Godzilla for the most part.

That's the feeling I get with the Time Travel that has been introduced. I feel like I have been dedicating 3+ years of my TV watching time to see some amazing wrap up and then Time Travel is introduced. It really feels like a last minute way to bail out of some plot direction that makes no sense...or as some fans like to explain "course correction"

I'll still watch, but it'll be with a little more jaded and skeptical eyes.

[Ureval]

to me, think of LOST like this...

remember when scifi fans and whoever were getting all excited over this new film called "01-18-08"?? As it got closer to being released there was word that this is *NOT* a Godzilla movie. OK fine. Then the title changed to "Cloverfield" and more and more peopls said it was like a Godzilla movie and the movie creators kept saying nope. Once it came out, Yes indeed - another Godzilla for the most part.

That's the feeling I get with the Time Travel that has been introduced. I feel like I have been dedicating 3+ years of my TV watching time to see some amazing wrap up and then Time Travel is introduced. It really feels like a last minute way to bail out of some plot direction that makes no sense...or as some fans like to explain "course correction"

I'll still watch, but it'll be with a little more jaded and skeptical eyes.

Dude...what did time travel ever do to you?

[az-phil]

Wow, some of you put too many words in your posts. I have a hard enough time following Lost. Don't make me read so much... :p

For all of you that keep calling Lost a Sci-Fi show, I'm not buying it even if you do pull out your dictionary. I've been a sci-fi junkie since I was in diapers, and Lost isn't your typical sci-fi show.

I'm with whomever said Lost is a cross-over show. It's very unique and doesn't seem to follow any particular formula. My wife hates sci-fi, and must be hanging in there for other reasons. For a show as unique as Lost, this Time Travel direction could evolve into a "cop out" (the somewhat far fetched mental aspect is the only thing making it unique right now).

[Himmel]

I happen to think its a great season I like the pace of it and knowing the end is near. I am not sure if the time travel issue will be a big deal when its all said and done. I think we will look back and enjoy the series as a whole. But if they end it like the sopranos i'm coming after the writers.

[Rain13]

to me, think of LOST like this...

remember when scifi fans and whoever were getting all excited over this new film called "01-18-08"?? As it got closer to being released there was word that this is *NOT* a Godzilla movie. OK fine. Then the title changed to "Cloverfield" and more and more peopls said it was like a Godzilla movie and the movie creators kept saying nope. Once it came out, Yes indeed - another Godzilla for the most part.

That's the feeling I get with the Time Travel that has been introduced. I feel like I have been dedicating 3+ years of my TV watching time to see some amazing wrap up and then Time Travel is introduced. It really feels like a last minute way to bail out of some plot direction that makes no sense...or as some fans like to explain "course correction"

I'll still watch, but it'll be with a little more jaded and skeptical eyes.

Don't forget, the series is only about half over. This isn't a last minute thing and the plot is certainly nowhere near being wrapped up. I can almost guarantee that 1. the Time Travel we're seeing is not as we think it is and 2. it's not going to be a huge deal on the show.

[King_Nate]

thats why this show is so much better than anything that has been produce up 2 date, they know exactly wre the show is going, i hear some people say they write on the fly...thats a joke... they have a script ...they might add to it on some points but as far as knowing were the show is going, THEY ABSOLUTLY know!!

[Lostie64]

ROFL.....:):D:p

Dude...what did time travel ever do to you?

[XmasDVD]

ROFL.....:):D:p

LOL yes I am laughing too... Oh well. I tried!:)

[Ureval]

....:D......

[Dessie_hull]

I dont think time travel has just been introduced. there has been clues about time differences since the start. The tide coming up quickly on the beach and the old radio broadcast picked up on the radio have been indications something is up with the islands time. i think this has been the plan all along

[XmasDVD]

I dont think time travel has just been introduced. there has been clues about time differences since the start. The tide coming up quickly on the beach and the old radio broadcast picked up on the radio have been indications something is up with the islands time. i think this has been the plan all along

...hmmm good points. I had forgotten about this.

[xlate_lostx]

I love lost as much as anyone else in here, i'm worried now whether they're leaving too many questions to answer, example the 2 dead bodies in the cave, which locke name adam and eve? I can see me being disappointed when it's all over. Hope I'm wrong!!!!

[King_Nate]

the writers said that the bodies in the cave...*adam & eve* would tie everything together so i would think that we wont find that out til late in the second 2 last season:D

[Rain13]

Do you have a link to where the writers said that King_Nate? Cause that sounds really interesting, I've always wondered if they were going to tie that back into the story.

[stuartsjg]

I was just thiniking about the Hatch Lockdown caused by the food drop.

Perhaps the island is frozen in time as opposed to being behind or ahead, or anything like that.


if its frozen, or looped time, or something allong thoes lines, then Dharma may have carried out a perfectly normal food drop?

Just a mad thought whilst i was waiting on the kettle

[boyo]

I'm not sure what you're saying Boyo. All I'm saying is that Lost has been a Sci-Fi show since the pilot since it's plot has centered around elements that deal with imaginative uses of science and hypothetical scientific possibilities. Once the door was opened for things like this, we as viewers should have been aware that anything was possible. I've never said anything about wormholes being the only possibility here?

WhatI'm saying is that the fact that this was your interpretation of the show from the very start , does not mean that everyone else saw it that way. Most of the things pre season 4 do have a possible explanation that is not hypothetical science and speculation. There are some paranormal things, but I wouldn't consider that sci-fi.

[Rain13]

Like I've said before I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I disagree that everything pre-season 4, or even pre-season 3, could have been explained in a rational way that would not be Sci-Fi. A population of polar bears surviving on a tropical island cannot be explained in any way that isn't Sci-Fi since our current understanding of science does not permit this to be reality. Thus, any proposed scientific explanation for this on the show would be Sci-Fi. The monster? In the first few episodes we knew that there was a monster on the island ripping up trees. Can you give me one possible explanation for this that wasn't Sci-Fi? The show was going in a Sci-Fi direction since the first episode, and that's all I'm trying to say.

[bunnydixon]

in your opinion! not everyone has the same one - its a scary revelation and you might wanna sit down, you ready? YOU ARE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT!!!

[Rain13]

You keep saying "in your opinion", in my opinion what? Since when is it just an opinion that a monster ripping up trees is Sci-Fi? Since when is it just an opinion that Desmond traveling back in time at the beginning of Season 3 is Sci-Fi? Since when is it just an opinion that all of the crash survivors being mysteriously connected before the crash is Sci-Fi? None of these are matters of opinion, they're all fact. Not everything in this world is a matter of opinion, as much as you may want it to be. Instead, much of it is fact, and in this case it is certainly fact that Lost has always been a Sci-Fi show.

Maybe you can answer my qusetion Bunny: If you didn't know that Lost was a Sci-Fi show after the first few episodes, what was your non-Sci-Fi explanation for the monster?

[bunnydixon]

i dont have ANY explanation for the monster!

any anyway - monsters are fantasy, not necessarily science fiction :p

i dont see how the survivors being connected is science fiction.

wont deny that time travel is science fiction - however, IN MY OPINION, the show is not solely about time travel! you may disagree thus this is YOUR OPINION.

here, since you are such a dictionary fan

OPINION - the view somebody takes about an issue, especially when it is based solely on personal judgment.

[Rain13]

Oh gosh you're not going to say the show is fantasy and NOT science fiction are you? Please...You know that many of the occurrences in Season 1 and 2 can ONLY be explained through Science Fiction means. Yes, I know what an opinion is. You, however, seem to be forgetting that while we do certainly have the right to hold any opinion we want, we also have the right to be wrong, and without the latter right you cannot have the first. You are clearly exemplifying this.

[bunnydixon]

*yawn* bored now!

sheesh - thought i came on here to escape the kids ;)

[Snape]

Wikipedia labels Lost as part of the science fiction genre.

However, it also lists it as part of the genres of drama, thriller, mystery, and adventure.

And I completely agree with them - it is part of all of those genres.

[Rain13]

I agree, and what Bunny is trying to say is that since it isn't ONLY a Science Fiction show, it ISN'T a Science Fiction show at all. Science Fiction isn't just a genre, it is a way of describing the nature of something, and Lost certainly has a Sci-Fi nature and always has.

[bunnydixon]

*sigh* read my posts will ya - i have said many times that it contains sci fi elements but is not purely just a sci-fi show!

broken record anyone!!!

[Rain13]

Science Fiction is a term used to describe a story that contains elements that require a suspension of disbelief regarding the hypothetical scientific laws that are used to govern the reality in which the show takes place. In the reality where Lost takes place, the existence of supernatural elements like smoke monsters is a possibility and this was established in Season 1. In order for us to believe this, we must acknowledge that the scientific laws which govern the reality in which Lost takes place are different than the laws which govern our own reality, and thus, Lost is a Science Fiction show. This is not a matter of opinion, sorry.

[Rain13]

I've been saying this since the beginning and you still don't get it: A Science Fiction show doesn't have to focus solely on Science Fiction elements in order to be a Science Fiction show. A "Mystery" or "Comedy" or "Thriller" on the other hand MUST focus mainly on each of these respective concepts in order to be classifiable as such. Almost every work of fiction contains mystery, but not every work of fiction is "A Mystery". The same goes for Comedy. Instead, a work of fiction is said to be a "Mystery" if its main focus is a mystery. Likewise, a work of fiction is not a "Comedy" unless comedy is a frequent presence and is the focal point of the work. On the contrary, a work of fiction merely has to prove that it has Science Fiction elements in order to be classifiable as Science Fiction. A Science Fiction movie can have comedy, mystery, and drama. But a Drama, Mystery, or Comedy can't have Science Fiction. Get it?

[ortrules]

Bunny's version:

Thriller elements + Love Story elements + Comedy elements + Sci-Fi elements (does not equal) Sci-Fi show

My version:

Thriller elements + Love Story elements + Comedy elements + Sci-Fi elements (does equal) Sci-Fi show
I don't really want to get in this argument since it's pretty ridiculous. But how come your "math" means it adds up to a Sci-Fi show and not a Thriller show or Love Story show? Doesn't that mean that by your logic you are saying I could rightfully call Lost a comedy since it has comedy elements?

[Rain13]

No, that was not intended to be a true Algebraic statement as clearly it would be false if this were the case. I was only presenting that as a more visual way to express what I was saying and what I thought Bunny was saying. Sorry if that was misleading. If it helps, skip that and just read what I typed below it.

[ortrules]

No, that was not intended to be a true Algebraic statement as clearly it would be false if this were the case. I was only presenting that as a more visual way to express what I was saying and what I thought Bunny was saying. Sorry if that was misleading. If it helps, skip that and just read what I typed below it.
I think the other paragraph explains it well...just wanted to play devil's advocate a bit.

[Rain13]

Yeah I guess that just made things for confusing lol, I edited it out so my position should make more sense now.

[XmasDVD]

So we agree then that time travel i in fact, a cop out for the writers?

[Rain13]

I think it would be, but I'm still convinced that they're not going to use it in the way that we all think they are.

[XmasDVD]

The Lockdown/food drops were mentioned - what about this thought - the lockdown is to prevent anyone from getting hurt by the food because like the rocket/payload experiment- it's unknown WHEN it will land. they want people out of the way when it's dropped. - thoughts? Maybe?

[thelawgiver]

I don't think it is a cop-out. For one, I think there are many other interesting and unanswered things that are not all tied to time travel. And, the show is so good that we have very high expectations, so no matter what the answers are, there will be a let down once revealed.

As for the lock down, they obviously did not want them out of the hatch for some reason. But there must have been food drops near the barracks without a lockdown. I think in the hatch it was probably just a control for the psychological aspect of the isolation experiment.

[Rain13]

Now that would be a cop out lol. I don't think the writers would add something so mysterious as the lockdown and then come up with a reason as simple as that.

[sidaco2001]

I'm glad somebody has brought this up. When we were first introduced to LOST, we watched a two-part pilot that was basically about a plane that crashes on an island with a bunch of survivors. They think rescue is coming immediately, but they must first survive the "monster" that is in the jungle.

So LOST's very first episode showed us something as "whack" as time-travel - existing in a written world were such conventions are not normal. Just like our world. So what is interesting to me is how the hell are they going to make this believable? Granted, the "monster" is still a mystery...kind of and that isn't exactly believable in a "real world" sense, but these writers are smart. They know they have a show where weird stuff happens in a real world and it can't go unexplained.

They have Jack to remind us of this. Anytime any kind of "shennanigans" goes on (the numbers, the orientation video, Locke's....whatever, Faraday talking time travel on the phone, etc.), Jack is always rolling his eyes or making his opionion heard. The time travel thing is pretty crazy and it takes the show to a completely different "LOSTness", but I think the writers know exactly where they're going with this and it will all make sense to us at some point.


i agree. LOST is like a game of chess for these writers. they make a few sacrifices but in the end they will undoubtebly get a check-mate. these men and women are GENIUSES!!

[boyo]

A population of polar bears surviving on a tropical island cannot be explained in any way that isn't Sci-Fi since our current understanding of science does not permit this to be reality.

That's your thinking, it's not a fact. All we know is, we have already messed with plants genes and allowed them to survive much different conditions (and diseases) than their historical habitat. Doing the same with animals is just a step way (and there's a huge possibility it's been done in a lab somewhere already).

The monster - the black smoke could be just that - smoke, triggered by a specific chemical reaction. I've already written about it sometime ago in the forum.

Desmond's visions of Charlie - this is more of a paranormal thing, it's not sci-fi. There's a difference. For example, many people have had at least once a dream of something happening , which then really happens later on - this is what you will call a fact. There's no real scientific explanation, but it happens.

The survivers being connected - just coincidence. The odds might be 1 to 10000000000000 , but it's still possible. The inspiration for this was the 6th degrees of separation theory

I''m sorry, but you are being quite narrow minded by admitting only one possibility

[Yummy Yoghurt]

It isn't time travel that is the issue I feel but magnetic forces, einsteinian physics on how our mind is related to the space and time continuum.

I think what it is exploring is how our memory is related to the space time continuum but for a memory to be connected it always needs and anchor - a constant. i.e. if you lived in two places, you need a connection between the two places to make the memory viable.

So I don't think it's time travel that plays a part but how the magnetic forces that hold the world, the universe and everything together interact with us as individuals.

If you think about it, we've covered everything from good and evil, death and life and loss and gain, the supernatural and the natural, problems with groups and individuals, relationships and power and conflict - everything and this is just a part of the big sphere where lost covers all aspects of human life to discover the truth about the Island.

Da Da Derrrrrrrrr

[chester]

http://www.tatterhood.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/postcarddark1.jpg

Anyone wanna suggest LOST is a sci-fi show? :eek::p:D

[spartygirl]

LMAO!!! that is one creepy looking bunny !!!!.

[Jelena]

chester, that bunny reminds me of a cocaine badger in a movie called "It's all gone Pete Tong".

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj83/hockeyapocalypse23/cocainebadger2.jpg


It's good that you revived this thread. I never, ever thought of Lost as a sci-fi show before I joined the forum, and I must say, I felt like an ignorant because I felt that way. Not anymore though. Even with all that is going on, Lost to me is not a sci fi show, it's a drama, with elements of SF. And I'm surprised so many people were in an uproar about time travel. I loved that aspect of the show from the very beginning. I love it when I don't understand something. :)

[chester]

it seems like too many people are getting bogged down by all this sci-fi talk and such... and it's really all about personal prejudices... the only people who really seem upset about this being at all sci-fi related are people who define themselves as hating sci-fi... or that sci-fi is so low rent or implausible... but they'll go along with all this other fantastical fiction in the show but if sci-fi related things come up they flip out... i think this says a lot more about the people complaining than it does about the show... now think for a minute and imagine that it is a very sci-fi related show but instead of the normal fare, it's incredibly well done! what a concept! oh my god, just imagine the horror of someone who hates sci-fi being sucked into this show they think is an island fantasy and it ends up being sci-fi related, and yet they still like the show overall... how horrible is that? god forbid LOST be the show that can span all these genres and break down barriers and entertain people with something that they are against being entertained by!

frankly, this is just getting ridiculous with all the complaining about genres...LOST has set itself apart from everything else in one sense, but all the while it has become a post-modern conglomerate juggernaut of endless references to all sorts of religions, books, films, tv shows, scientific ideas, etc... and I for one, just don't see what all the negative fuss is about... if you don't like it...turn it off and stop acting like you care by posting on a forum for fans who are more than happy to keep drinking the LOST kool-aid :)

Fantastic post Pacman!

Wow, people were really against the time-travel, weren't they. Even before it started happening physically.

[tpbaxter]

I really hope they don't do any time travel stuff in Lost.

[krakup]

I really hope they don't do any time travel stuff in Lost.

i dont mind time travel but no weird unexplained entities/monsters

[tpbaxter]

i dont mind time travel but no weird unexplained entities/monsters

yeah and no spooky whispers or dead people showing up.

and please, no love triangles.

[chester]

I think time-travel may be so aversive because it makes people think, and doubt their own logic.

With the other things you can just go, "oh, that's nice, a smoke monster", for example.

[LissaMarie]

I think we need to find you a time-travel 12 step program, Chester. You're obsessed!! :D

[losttime]

I think time-travel may be so aversive because it makes people think, and doubt their own logic.

With the other things you can just go, "oh, that's nice, a smoke monster", for example.

Who ever responded like that about Smokey?

People are very much interested in who and what Smokey is, although we have our suspicions about who it is.

As much as we are interested in the whole time travel thing.

The whole idea of the time travel is not the issue but the outcome of the time-traveling is.

[EmmaUK]

I totally agree, i am halfway through season 4 up to the part when we realise gin has dies in the flash forward. It seems to me that whenever they are stuck for an episode they give desmond a wierd time travel story line that is all sorted by the end of the episode, it also seems to have no relevance to the story.

I HATE sci fi but LOVE lost so the theory about it being a sci fi programme is rubbish.

I hope they have a realistic explanation for everything and dont use some lame explanation that relates to the island and not real life!!

I hope they dont let us down or i have wasted sooooo many hours of my life :(

[Desi420]

I don't think the time travel was a cop out. I think a show with so many mysteries from it past, the best way to answer the questions would be to go in the past. And the Irony that the characters end up being responsable for there present situation is pure brilliance.

[chester]

I totally agree, i am halfway through season 4 up to the part when we realise gin has dies in the flash forward. It seems to me that whenever they are stuck for an episode they give desmond a wierd time travel story line that is all sorted by the end of the episode, it also seems to have no relevance to the story.

I HATE sci fi but LOVE lost so the theory about it being a sci fi programme is rubbish.

I hope they have a realistic explanation for everything and dont use some lame explanation that relates to the island and not real life!!

I hope they dont let us down or i have wasted sooooo many hours of my life :(

Hey there emmaUK, are you time-travelling BunnyDixon?:D

You might just need to correct your statement about hating scifi, perhaps to only hating most sci-fi.

I reckon one of the greatest things about the show, is that they have been able to draw so many people to a story, who would not normally even give it a chance.

[notsolost42]

I totally agree, i am halfway through season 4 up to the part when we realise gin has dies in the flash forward. It seems to me that whenever they are stuck for an episode they give desmond a wierd time travel story line that is all sorted by the end of the episode, it also seems to have no relevance to the story.

I HATE sci fi but LOVE lost so the theory about it being a sci fi programme is rubbish.

I hope they have a realistic explanation for everything and dont use some lame explanation that relates to the island and not real life!!

I hope they dont let us down or i have wasted sooooo many hours of my life :(

So you don't believe that a story about a smoke monster on an invisible and moving jungle island floating somewhere in spacetime is sci-fi? What genre would you call it then?

[wiley]

So you don't believe that a story about a smoke monster on an invisible and moving jungle island floating somewhere in spacetime is sci-fi? What genre would you call it then?

Gilligan's Island

[krakup]

Gilligan's Island

now this is a story of our castaways

[Desi420]

Gilligan's Island

If lost was Gilligan's Island, who would be who?

I think Locke would be the Skipper and Jack would be the professor. Kate as the movie star, Jin and Sun as the Millionaire and his wife, Claire as Mary Ann. Charlie is Gilligan, I guess. The others are the naitives (obviously). And Eko is the Harlem Globetrotters.