Does Ben Have Multiple Personalities?

[beachblinkette]

Wow, I may be out on a limb here. When Ben said"My name is Henry Gale", did he actually believe he Was Henry Gale for a short time? For example, the Boston strangler=loving husband/father alternating with homicidal murderer. Neither personality was aware of the other one. Is this what makes Ben so mysterious? Is one of his other id's Jacob? What do you think?

[Dessie_hull]

i think ben is just incredibly manipulative. he can lie convincingly and get into your head. I think he was just acting

[bunnydixon]

you know MPD is always there in my head - not sure that anyone suffers from it as such but its just the symptoms etc...

[Dzbabykel]

I do believe there is more to the story as to why Ben ended up in Rousseau's trap that day...I remember him mentioning it again in Season 3 so I'm hoping they show a flashback about that.

[beachblinkette]

There's something there. Remember the costumes? The char. in Psycho would dress up like his victim so maybe Ben dresses up like people he's murdered or caused to die.The other personality(ies) might not be aware of that.When he told Locke that Jacob was in the chair and it was empty, I thought who's he talking to?But I see some loopholes because he's tied up when Hurley goes near the cabin and yet Hurley appears to see someone there.Aargh!I'm holding this idea in the background just in case we see more convincing evidence.

[Rain13]

Sorry but as a Psychiatrist in-training I'm going to have to throw my expertise in here again, so bear with me ;):

What you guys are referring to is Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), which is a very controversial diagnosis within the psychiatric community. The diagnosing criteria are as follows:

- The existence of at least two distinct personalities/identities that recurrently take control of a person’s behavior
- Each personality/identity has its own set of patterns for how it interacts with and perceives the environment
- Psychogenic Amnesia regarding vital personal information
- There can be no physiological explanation for any of this, i.e. brain damage or substance abuse

While it’s one of the most commonly portrayed mental illnesses on TV and in movies and is often confused with Schizophrenia (they are completely unrelated and Schizophrenia does not involve multiple personalities), many in the fields of Psychiatry and Psychology argue that it does not exist at all. Skeptics point to the fact that there were only 200 known cases of DID between 1880 and 1979, and yet there were an incredible 20,000 cases between 1980 and 1990. They attribute this mostly to the fact that during this time the disorder started being more commonly portrayed on TV and in movies and it became well-known to the public.

However, it has been an official diagnosis in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (the official list of mental disorders that can be diagnosed by Psychiatrists and Psychologists) since 1968, and is pretty widely acknowledged as being a true disorder. What this does mean, however, is that it has been incredibly over-diagnosed in the past, and it is in fact a much, much more rare disorder than most people believe.

In terms of symptoms, people with DID will literally display multiple personalities over a given period of time, each with their own complex identities. A single person may have up to 20 unique personalities, each with their own gender, age, race, and experiences. Some may display personalities that even live in different time periods. Another thing that I’ve always found fascinating is that it’s been reported that women with DID have (don’t read this if you’re squeamish) had unique menstrual cycles for each personality. One personality will have her period and then upon switching personalities, the woman will have her period again and each personality will maintain a regular cycle. Also, there have been experiments with people who suffer from DID who have one personality that is allergic to something and another that is not. These facts attest to the power that our brain has over our body.

As far as causes go, almost every case of this disorder is seen in people who have suffered extremely traumatic events in their childhood, particularly abuse. The theory is that during extreme abuse at an early age, the child’s still-developing brain will dissociate (which literally means “to sever one’s association with oneself” or to remove yourself from yourself) in order to escape from the traumatic situation. This results in the creation of another identity that the child can escape to in order to literally not feel like they are sitting there being beaten by their father. The problem with this is that it works, and these identities multiply over time and do not go away. Treatment isn’t something I’m very familiar with since this just isn’t something you learn a whole lot about, but it essentially involves mostly Psychotherapy with the intent of re-connecting the multiple personalities into a single consciousness.

[bunnydixon]

rain, dont you think that was a little patronising?

[Rain13]

I don't think I was patronizing at all. There was only one sentence in there where I wasn't providing information about this disorder and that was: "Sorry but as a Psychiatrist in-training I'm going to have to throw my expertise in here again, so bear with me ;)". If that sounds patronizing than I apologize since that wasn't my intention, but I really don't think it was.

Someone brought up the idea that Ben was anti-social in another thread and I did the same thing there and everyone seemed to appreciate me sharing my knowledge about the disorder. I'm sure if somebody made a post explicitly pertaining to your field of expertise you would do the same thing, and I would be thankful that you did.

[Rain13]

But anyway, this is where I stand on this (I hope it's okay if I say, Bunny :p:

As I mentioned in the thread about Ben being anti-social (a Sociopath), the difficulty in diagnosing fictional characters is that 1. The authors/writers obviously do not have to follow the true nature of the disorder and can treat it in a very unrealistic way and 2. Almost every villain (and I refer to Ben as a villain only because his role is presented as a villain so far) is crafted to have a whole list of symptoms that match many different psychiatric disorders. So with that said, I'll tell you what I think.

Ben does not have Dissociative Identity Disorder by any stretch of the imagination. The writers have proven to be very good at maintaining realism and staying true to the science and theories that they use on the show. They’ve done their research on everything that they’ve presented so far, whether it’s Quantum Physics or Zoology, and I’m certain that if they had planned to claim that Ben has DID they would have spent just 10 minutes doing their research and could have made it fairly convincing. With that said, Ben does not meet any of the criteria for being diagnosed.

1. He has consistently maintained the same personality and identity throughout the show, and the only time that he assumed another identity (Henry Gale) was during a situation where it was in his interest to do so. If he had DID he would be constantly jumping between personalities against his will.
2. He has no amnesia and is very well put together. Someone with DID would not be able to command a whole legion of people and be a skillful war tactician! We would see Ben having constant nervous breakdowns and being unable to function.
3. Even though Ben’s father was an alcoholic and was clearly abusive, there is no evidence that he suffered the extreme trauma that is required for one to begin to dissociate. I’m not talking about regular beatings, but things like rape and maiming, this only happens in the most extreme and horrifying cases of child abuse.

If I were tasked with diagnosing Ben based on how he’s been portrayed so far, I would say that he has Narcissistic Personality Disorder with Antisocial and Psychopathic Tendencies. He believes that he is above everybody and manipulates other people for his own personal gain. He believes that he is the center of attention at all times and relishes in this position. He seems unable to form meaningful relationships with other people and seems incapable of having true emotions. He is extremely charismatic and proficient at gaining the allegiance of people. As far as the Psychopathic Tendencies, well that pretty much depends on whether you think Jacob is real or not :D

[bunnydixon]

hmmm........

[bunnydixon]

well you yourself said that its nigh on impossible to diagnose a fictional character and i still maintain that he is not truly villaineous, we only see what the writers want us to see - so they portray him accordingly.

anyhoo, i was not referring to the symptoms that would be used for a diagnosis of MPD - poor choice of word - but more the traits.

[Rain13]

I was careful to say that it's difficult, or perhaps more accurately it's impossible, to diagnosis a fictional character. All I'm doing is offering my knowlege of the disorder that you guys are talking about and assuming that the writers would have been careful to stay true to it if they had planned to claim he has it. Like I said, most fictional villains show symptoms of multiple psychological disorders and very rarely are they intended to truly have one. All I hope to have accomplished with this is to provide some accurrate information about a disorder that most people have false information on so we can discuss this idea more realistically. An aerospace engineer would have done the same thing if there was a thread specifically about the way the plane crashed containing false information.

Also, I've always maintained that Ben will turn out to be a good guy too. My point in calling him a villain is that right now the writers are at the very least trying to trick us into thinking that he may be a villain. Certainly when actors were auditioning for the role of Ben years ago it said on the script that he was a villain and that's how the actor is playing him.

[bunnydixon]

where do you get that information about the scripts as that is twice you have referenced what they say on them?

[midwestprof]

keep in mind that all of the diagnosis are only correct if Ben is who we think he is. what if he knew of darma goings-on that were not changing the equation for the good but rather for the profit of senior members of that group, and as an original darma (through his dad) he overthrows the project to save mankind. I know it seems unlikely, but if this were his motivation, and this is how he has enlisted micheal and sayid, then he wouldnt be a sociopath afterall....hes beergoggles jack

[Rain13]

where do you get that information about the scripts as that is twice you have referenced what they say on them?

Do you have a personal vendetta against me or something? All I was saying is that since we have been told that actors who audition for roles on Lost aren't given the full information about the characters they are trying out for, that you can be sure that the actors who auditioned for Ben were told he was a "villain". It is in the manner of a villain that Michael Emerson plays him. He has been the main antagonist of the protagonists since the second season, and he is shown grimacing and looking evil in all of the promotional art. Again, I think we will find out that he is actually a good guy with good intentions, but as of right now he is being presented to us as a villain and that is the only side we know of him so far. You're clearly just nit-picking with my words because no one would think that I was implying that I read the scripts from what I said above.

[bunnydixon]

i only ask as you seemed so sure so i wondered if you were privy to some information about it - you have 'nit-picked' almost all my posts from the time travel thread and taken everything i say in the wrong context. I dont have a vendetta against you, however, i do have a problem with the manner in which you respond to people.

i was lead to believe that the character of henry gale was indeed to be just that, henry gale and they adapted it later on so during the auditioning process, i doubt that they would have mentioned anything regarding a villian (which makes michael emerson all the more brilliant in his acting). however, if you had read something which said otherwise, i was curious about it.

[beachblinkette]

Ah Hah! Yes, Bunny, I would like to know that, too. Thanks to you all for your ideas here.I posted this thread and then went off on a tangent looking up the Scottish Philosopher Hume and his theories on cause and effect, human experience, etc. Most of which I was barely able to scratch the surface in understanding. It's still curious to me that Ben is one of the few people who "talks" to Jacob or Jacob talks to. My impression is that it's anybody's guess who Jacob is, how he relates to Ben, and why Ben is connected to him or if he even exists.Thanks for saving me the time of looking up MPD or DID. This is all so very interesting.I'll keep posting my ideas and hoping that my limb doesn't snap on me.:)

[bunnydixon]

ben always claims to be born on the island aswell which could be interpreted in many ways!

but i found this which is interesting (blatantly using copy and paste :D)

Characteristics of the Inner Self Helper (ISH)

A. Prime Directive of the ISH is to keep patient alive until her Life Plan is completed and fulfilled. The ISH will prevent suicide in any way possible.

B. Has no date of origin; has always been present.

C. Can only agape love; is incapable of hatred.

D. Has awareness of and belief in "The Creator."

E. Is aware that the Celestial Intelligent Energy (CIE) put her in charge of teaching this person how to live and move forward properly.

F. Is able to work on the inside of the patient's mind, as co-therapist, while the human therapist works on the outside.

G. Knows all about history of patient and can predict short term future.

H. Possesses no personal sense of gender identity, but will assume either gender the therapist is comfortable with.

I. Talks intellectually instead of emotionally, carefully chooses precise words, speaks in short concise sentences; prefers to answer questions; gives enigmatic instructions. ("Teach her humility today.")

J. Avoids using slang; does not have the capacity for put-downs or guilt-trips.

K. Is aware of patient's past lifetimes.



okay not all are relevant to ben but some are intriguing!

[Rain13]

i was lead to believe that the character of henry gale was indeed to be just that, henry gale and they adapted it later on so during the auditioning process, i doubt that they would have mentioned anything regarding a villian (which makes michael emerson all the more brilliant in his acting). however, if you had read something which said otherwise, i was curious about it.

So you're saying that the character of Ben was initially just supposed to be Henry Gale? I've never seen that idea anywhere before, and since Damon Lindelof has said that he had fully written the plot through the first 5 seasons even before he approached ABC with his pilot, it seems rather unlikely that Ben's character was just an after-thought. If that's not what you're saying than I apologize.

Again, all I'm trying to say is that the role of Ben so far has been that of a classic antagonist.

[bunnydixon]

he has the basic plot but its definitely been tweaked here and there. they need to be adaptable - look at jack, look at ana lucia and libby, look at walt or the writers strike! and yes, i did read that (dont ask me where!), i dont profess it to be true, more of an if thats the case situation.

[agmic]

way to much to read....
Henry Gale is a real person, per the show, remember that Ben found him in his parachute stuck in some tree somewhere on the island....And I can't recall if he,Henry, was died or if Ben killed him. But in light of what is happening now, with Miles seeming to know Ben. That maybe back then, Ben thought the the survivors were after him ,Ben. So, he got Henry Gales name and told our survivors that that was him.. trying to throw them off.......

[bunnydixon]

you are totally right but (i am gonna have to find where i read this) apparently originally, his character was actually gonna be henry gale in the balloon from minnesota!

[Rain13]

Wait so are you saying that the actor who plays Ben was initially cast to play Henry Gale and then later changed to play Ben? Or, are you saying that initially the character of Ben Linus was non-existant, and that the character was later created out of what was supposed to just be Henry Gale arriving at the survivor's camp?

Yes they definately do change plotlines and add things and remove things, but again I think that it would be very strange if we find that someone like Ben, who is arguably the key to everything that is going on, would have been added as an after-thought. I had always imagined that Ben is linked to the very center of the storyline and that they would have known about his character all along during the writing process.

[Dessie_hull]

the producers have said that ben was supposed to die but was kept in so they could keep the acting talents of michael emerson

[bunnydixon]

Or, are you saying that initially the character of Ben Linus was non-existant, and that the character was later created out of what was supposed to just be Henry Gale arriving at the survivor's camp?




that bit - i am lead to believe.

[bunnydixon]

i am really looking for this article but cant find it but i did find this which is not quite the same but does confirm.

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2696

[Rain13]

Wow that blows my mind. I'm not saying I don't believe you but do you guys have any links to interviews or proof of this or anything? I guess since I believe that Ben is going to end up being the good guy who's at the center of all this that it's hard to imagine that the writers could conceive of the plot taking place without him. But apparently they can...very strange.

[bunnydixon]

see my previous thread - think we posted at the same time.

[Dessie_hull]

Wow that blows my mind. I'm not saying I don't believe you but do you guys have any links to interviews or proof of this or anything? I guess since I believe that Ben is going to end up being the good guy who's at the center of all this that it's hard to imagine that the writers could conceive of the plot taking place without him. But apparently they can...very strange.

Michael says in the interview bunnydixon posted. He originally got the part and it was a guest star. its one of the things that bugs me about lost. same as how jack was supposed to die in the pilot episode but he is now the main lostie. a lot of it has been made up as the show progressed.

[bunnydixon]

i meant post not thread - doh!

[Rain13]

Yeah he says it here too: http://youtube.com/watch?v=1WG-FzANjTE

That is kind of disappointing. One thing that has always drawn me to Lost is the idea that the ingenious master plan encompasses every little detail we see and that nothing is just coincidential. So either that's not true, or they're just writing the plot retroactively to fit with everything that's already happened and not vice-versa. Oh well, I guess we shall see.

[Dessie_hull]

I'm sure the writers discuss the implications to the story when they make a decision like this. The show is probably better for it. I dont think it would have been as interesting if Ben wasn't in it

[bunnydixon]

oh absolutely, keeping him was a wise choice. the overall story is there i think but its just small things like this - maybe there was a ben linus to be cast for season 3 but them they adapted the 2 characters to become one?

[Rain13]

Yeah that seems more plausible to me Bunny. Maybe they did initially intend for Henry Gale to visit the survivors and be held hostage and interrogated and not to introduce Ben until Season 3. When they cast Michael Emerson as Henry Gale they must have loved him so much that they just changed the plot to put Ben on the show earlier and make Henry Gale dead. I hope that's how it went lol, cause I still think that the idea of Ben not being vital to the overall storyline is disappointing.

[beachblinkette]

As far as the plot being complete from the beginning, I really can't go along with that. They had the skeleton but not the flesh and blood. One charismatic actor like Ben can take things to a new and better level. Also, some people only have four toes on one foot or are missing some body parts.Then the skeleton would not be complete from the get go- to strain the analogy a bit.. When I watch that huge hunk of writers sitting there with their pads and papers, I know there's a whole lot of shaking going on when it come to the story!Hah! all the better for us.

[UnknownPoster]

That interview said Emerson's wife had a guest role - who was she?
________
Iolite Vaporizer (http://vaporizer.org/portable)

[Archangel-Player]

The evidence Iv seen so far points to Ben and Jacob being two seprate people. As far as Henry Gale goese Ben stole his identiey a common thing to do when your trying to hide who you truly are espicaly if you hold high ranks in your organization. Sayid proved that Henry was a Black male and not Ben when he showed up with the Driver's licens. Pluss We discoverd that Ben heald many alias over the course of his life threw many countries. It's not known at this time how Henry Gale relates to Ben. But, it's rumerd that the situation surounding Ben and Henry Gale will be adressed as well as the situation around why Ben truly was "caught" in Daniale's trap.-------------------------------------------------------------------------- How Do I figure Ben and Jacob are seprate?1) Two in the same personality wouldn't be able to speak while the other personaility is still present it was obvious that Ben's mind was still active while Jacob was in the room. Jacob was physicaly intrating with the envirment while Ben was able to move and intreact with the envirment in a diffrent patern. So that tells me they are two seprate people. That was the point of that seen. To show us that Ben wasn't crazy, that Jacob truely existed and not Ben's Pinky finger crying Redrum.

[gilligan]

Yeah that seems more plausible to me Bunny. Maybe they did initially intend for Henry Gale to visit the survivors and be held hostage and interrogated and not to introduce Ben until Season 3. When they cast Michael Emerson as Henry Gale they must have loved him so much that they just changed the plot to put Ben on the show earlier and make Henry Gale dead. I hope that's how it went lol, cause I still think that the idea of Ben not being vital to the overall storyline is disappointing.

Yup, this is how I see it. Their skeletal story line has a Boss, but Emerson does such a good job that its best to just make him the man!

[bunnydixon]

That interview said Emerson's wife had a guest role - who was she?

she played bens mother.

[Existentialist]

No. Ben just lies to get what he wants done.

[IrishDancinQueen]

I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed reading this thread, especially as a budding psychologist :). I completely agree with Rain that Ben doesn't have DID ( a decent example of DID is Nikki from Heroes). If he did have DID, there would be periods of "lost" time where he couldn't account for his actions and I think if that were the case it would have been brought up on the show (though I could be completely wrong). I'd love to attack him with an MMPI-2 and see what's really going on in that brain of his...

[bunnydixon]

it makes me laugh re-reading this as all the stuff i read about this is really dated so i still use the old terms (i get most of it from true crimes books all written in the 70's and 80's - none of this modern trash!) i really must get myself up to date!!!

[IrishDancinQueen]

The psychological aspect is yet another reason why I LOVE this show!!! The characters have so much depth to them. One of my assignments for a class was to choose a character from a tv show and write up a two page personality assessment based on temperament, motives, affect, and major personality traits. I chose Jack and I had a REALLY hard time keeping it to only two pages. It was definitely one of the most fun assignments I've ever had to do. It's great when your professor basically tells all of you to go home and watch tv for homework :p

[bunnydixon]

wow thats an excellent assignment!!! bet it was fun to do aswell!!

[beachblinkette]

Dancing Queen, I'd love to read that paper and so would others, I guess. Could you put a thread on with the highlights of your paper? That would be great to read! Understand if it's too much trouble, tho. Thanks.