i figured out who the Man in Black is

[Ursul]

Who doesn't want to risk spoiling the entire series, please do not read ahead.

I think I'm 80% right about my guess.

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Who is the Man in Black/Smoke Monster?


The Man in Black is Locke from a distant past. My reasoning points are below:

1 - every time someone says to him "you are not John Locke" he neither confirms nor rejects this (discussion with Sawyer, Widmore, ...)

2 - Man in Black said he had a crazy mother; Locke also had a crazy mother that abandoned him when he was born (and maybe interacted with him afterwards)

3 - he was screaming “don't tell me what I can't do”. some may say that he got this behavior from the deceased Locke but it seems a much too personal trait, something only Locke would say

4 - when Locke was 5 years old, if you remember, was visited by Richard and he had drawings on the walls with the smoke monster; somehow he knew what his destiny will eventually be

5 - the sound that the smoke monster constantly makes is the same sound of the receipt printer in Locke’s office (wheelchair Locke), you can verify this if you want (youtube etc.). it’s logical that the monster should make noises that Locke had been exposed to and that involuntarily ‘imprinted’ on to him

6 - think for a minute, why is it that nobody knows what his name is? what is the sense of this? why doesn’t he present himself: “hi, I am ... Tom etc.”. because we would actually say “I am John Locke” and all the people (on the island) would really be confused (not to mention that it would spoil the surprise of the entire series)

7 - we are being fooled by the fact that the smoke monster transforms into Locke and we also see Locke’s body nearby, so we clearly form the idea that - hey, the Man in Black is NOT John Locke (wrong guess). also, the Black Locke speaks of himself in the 3rd person shortly after Jakob is killed - this is probably because a lot o time has passed since he HAD BEEN Locke (he says that Jakob stole his body and his humanity sometime in the past)

8 - once we know that another parallel universe exists, “the Man in Black being Locke all along” idea becomes very possible! Locke is alive in this second new universe (but is bound in a wheelchair). maybe he finds out that he should actually be on the island (through Desmond), goes to the Hawking lady and somehow ends up on the island, but in a very distant past and still being paralyzed. then it’s possible that he makes a deal with somebody on the island (Jakob?) for him to be able to “walk” again but has to give up his human form and only be able to transform into dead people. it’s a great joy when after N thousand years Locke’s dead body ends up on the island and ... Locke can finally look like Locke again

9 - think from the screenwriter’s perspective: won’t this be what they would want the story to be? give a solution using answers that were just sitting under our noses all this time, a solution ‘honoring’ John Locke’s character (who died rather stupidly after proving himself to be so important in his relation to the island) and which really is “Cool” as far as storytelling goes. it doesn’t make sense to introduce a new character for showing the Man in Black’s history. the character was already there and most of his history we already know. his name is John Locke.

PS: the grey-haired man is just one of Locke's appearances and does not count as a new character

I guess we will just have to sit trough the remaining 6 episodes and see if i'm right ;)

[Horus]

I guess you could be right but there are a few issues ...

I believe that MIB told Locke he had to die, not Jacob. Locke never saw Jacob so how would he know if he was talking to Jacob or no.

In season 1 (or 2), I forget, Locke gets up close and personnel with the Smoke Monster and lives. This defies a few laws of physics ...

Ilana brought Locke's body along to show that the guy walking around wasn't Locke.

MIB is trapped in Locke's form, if he was Locke why would assuming his true form trap him?

[Sox1Series]

Hey - great post and welcome to the forum.

I like alot of what you've said. I'm not sure if I'm fully convinced, but it is plausible. It would also mean that Jacob saved Locke/MiB's life when he fell from the window. Not sure how that fits in.

I agree the MiB is somebody we already know, no doubt. This is why, as you said, they purposefully have not said his name. It could be Locke, I theorized that it could be Aaron. I really don't know, but your theory is pretty good.

[notsolost42]

I just love when people think that their pure conjecture is a spoiler. :D

[Ursul]

Hey - great post and welcome to the forum.

I like alot of what you've said. I'm not sure if I'm fully convinced, but it is plausible. It would also mean that Jacob saved Locke/MiB's life when he fell from the window. Not sure how that fits in.

I agree the MiB is somebody we already know, no doubt. This is why, as you said, they purposefully have not said his name. It could be Locke, I theorized that it could be Aaron. I really don't know, but your theory is pretty good.
No, Jacob doesn't save MiB's life. When he falls from the window, breaking his back, that is Locke from timeline 1, the one that boards the plane that crashes on the island. the point where timeline 2 starts is on the plane. the Locke from timeline 2 sits in a plane that doesn't crash so he doesn't reach the island this way, the plane lands and he is in a wheelchair. however, he finds out from Desmond that there is an island that can cure him so he wants to get there for any price. the price he actually pais is that he is transported there in a very distant past and his human form gets stolen by some entity (Jacob or someone similar)

[JfromtheD]

I just love when people think that their pure conjecture is a spoiler. :D

Yeah, but you gotta respect their intentions... :cool:

[notsolost42]

Yeah, but you gotta respect their intentions... :cool:

Says who? :rolleyes:

[Ursul]

Ok, now Desmond hits wheelchair Locke with the car (maybe he has this compulsion because Locke just killed him in the other timeline, throwing him in a well). But now, the car hit counts as a near-death experience for Locke which causes him to realize the other timeline and to start having flashes. Remember, near-death experiences also gave Desmond, Charlie and Juliette this ability. What can happen next can be:

1- Desmond feels bad for having the compulsion to run Locke with the car, goes to him and they talk, Desmond eventually telling him everything. After this talk and his flashes Locke wants to get to the island
2- Locke's health gets worse - but now he has flashes and memories from the other timeline. He has to go to the island in order to save his life.
3- Locke's health gets better - enthusiastic because of the flashes and the little incentive experience (the car hit makes him feel his legs for a short while) Locke wants to go to the island to fully restore his walking ability

Once he gets to the island, he gets there in a very distant past and becomes the smoke monster somehow. The love he lost is Helen (which he now misses and wishes that he wouldn't have been so arrogant and wanting to get to the island so badly, an island that now he despises)

[lilsev42]

Also,this is isn't from this season ,but when Locke forced Ben to take him to the cabin Locke does see someone in the rocking chair.It's himself I do believe.He wanted help ,if I recall rite.I still think Ben is holding back the truth that he knows.I love your thoery ,any thoughts on Locke seeing himself in that chair before the choas started.Maybe Locke has always known.That's why he was bound and determined long before the rest of our Losties.

[Ursul]

Also,this is isn't from this season ,but when Locke forced Ben to take him to the cabin Locke does see someone in the rocking chair.It's himself I do believe.He wanted help ,if I recall rite.I still think Ben is holding back the truth that he knows.I love your thoery ,any thoughts on Locke seeing himself in that chair before the choas started.Maybe Locke has always known.That's why he was bound and determined long before the rest of our Losties.

Yes, i think you are right. Jacob hasn't been using that cabin for some time. Instead the MiB has been using it, clearly. When Christian appears there, he is the MiB.

When Locke goes there with Ben, it's really strange but the voice saying "help me" is his own. the smoke monster (old Locke) was lurking in the dark giving him visions and whispering to him. the man that appears in the chair for a brief moment is ..Locke. You can examine this picture below:

http://i40.tinypic.com/289ecqx.jpg

The head is shaped the same way and pay attention to the nose - they are the same.

[myu]

Interesting premise.

You should remember that the actors are sometimes called to play as disguised stand-ins. It could very well be they asked Terry O'Quin to fill in as the "mystery man" in the cabin. It doesn't mean he is MiB from the beginning.

But you do make some great points. I had forgotten about how Locke drew the smoke monster when he was a small child. There is also this peculiar familiarity with the items that Richard shows him.

I think the reason why Jacob chose the people he did for candidates was because they had the "right stuff"... and the right pathways for Jacob to nudge them towards his aims. At that time, I believe Jacob was sincere about considering Locke as a candidate. Jacob is perceptive... he wouldn't have picked him if he was "contaminated."

What happened is that Locke was killed by Ben. And so by his dead body reaching the island, it became possible for MiB to assume his form. Perhaps Locke had a vision as a small boy of seeing himself being able to transform into smoke? Whatever the case, I'm convinced that Locke was generally a good guy who was eventually hijacked by MiB, to play out the game and achieve the immediate goal of killing Jacob.

[JfromtheD]

Rob Kyker is the man who was in the cabin. He's the "Prop Master" for Lost.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071023043232/lostpedia/images/thumb/c/c4/Rob_Kyker.jpg/180px-Rob_Kyker.jpg

[Panda]

Nice theory.

[Ursul]

Rob Kyker is the man who was in the cabin. He's the "Prop Master" for Lost.

Rob Kyker seems to have a bigger nose. However if you know this for a fact, that they used this props guy for that strange man in the cabin, then it's possible that he too supports/hints the idea that MiB is Locke because Rob kinda looks like Locke in that scene.

But then again maybe he's just there to scare us like hell and not really give any clues about MiB.

[JfromtheD]

Rob Kyker seems to have a bigger nose. However if you know this for a fact, that they used this props guy for that strange man in the cabin, then it's possible that he too supports/hints the idea that MiB is Locke because Rob kinda looks like Locke in that scene.

But then again maybe he's just there to scare us like hell and not really give any clues about MiB.

It's fact... that much I know.
But I honestly have no idea, behind the intention. :)

[LostFanInTheD]

Personally, i think this is too complicated of an explanation for the time remaining. Locke drawing the smoke monster and being familiar with the things Richard showed him are early "bleed-throughs" from the ALT in my opinion. Richard expected more from him after seeing this, but it was a distant familiarity to young Locke. I think the MIB we saw on the beach is his original from, then by whatever means he has he took Lockes form. Its Occams razor at this point.

[Cee]

But i ask, is it his original form as Mib, I'm looking at the island as an old place the temple was built long before Jacob took residency so who's to say how long have they been doing this and how many forms have been taken?

This could just be another phase of a timeline of candidates, when they are all dead, they have to start over....

Just a thought.

[Ursul]

I don't think the end of the show will involve cyclicity, it's too cliche. There won't really be any "starting over". However i am very confident that Locke WILL travel to the island in ancient times and that he will either be changed by someone on purpose, or by accident, into the Smoke Monster. I can already see how he is transported through the dimensions (time/space/alternative univs.) maybe in a faulty way and he ends up being these ..energies scattered across dimensions: http://www.lost.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14830

[notsolost42]

The man in the chair was played by the props supervisor. It was not TOQ.

[Highlandre]

i think lock died in plane crash and has been mib all along

[Lostaholic84]

this is a great post. whether it comes true or not it is well thought out and makes some sense(yes only some because nothing in lost makes complete sense just yet). i think you are even missing one key that you could add to your lost of "proof" or "things that make u believe flocke is locke". When Des came out of the well and was asked( i forget by who) if he knew who that was...he said "of course i do.....its john locke" now we have all been lead to believe that he is simply not caught up and thinks locke is still alive blabla....but it seems obvious that des is more than caught up at this point and knows more than anyone. if this is the case great job by the writers with that specific spot as they sort of gave us a huge answer without us realizing........also i was wondering if your theory changes at all after this most recent episode....not necessarily the "who" but the "why" and "how" maybe. let me know you seem to have alot of solid thoughts

[Ursul]

Ok. Locke is consumed by guilt for putting his father in a vegetative state. He now has visions with the island. He refuses the operation Jack is willing to do on him to restore his legs. I see two versions:

1-John, after some more visions, accepts that Jack should do the operation on him (he thinks Jack and him have a common destiny because of the visions). The operation succeeds - he starts believing in miracles. He now wants to heal his paralyzed father so he wants to get him to the island from his visions to redeem himself.

2-John does Jack's operation - it doesn't succeed. But now he knows that there is an island where he got his walking ability back. He wants to go there and also take his father so that everything could get fixed.

His father can't really say no - he is mind-dead. Helen says no, John doesn't listen, he leaves her behind. Now, about getting to the island, i think it will either involve mrs. Hawking that seems to know a lot (but i don't know why she would help Locke) or maybe Daniel (he should know quite a bit) and/or Desmond. He will get transported to the island somehow and it will be in a distant past. And he will become the smoke monster.

[Lostaholic84]

Ok. Locke is consumed by guilt for putting his father in a vegetative state. He now has visions with the island. He refuses the operation Jack is willing to do on him to restore his legs. I see two versions:

1-John, after some more visions, accepts that Jack should do the operation on him (he thinks Jack and him have a common destiny because of the visions). The operation succeeds - he starts believing in miracles. He now wants to heal his paralyzed father so he wants to get him to the island from his visions to redeem himself.

2-John does Jack's operation - it doesn't succeed. But now he knows that there is an island where he got his walking ability back. He wants to go there and also take his father so that everything could get fixed.

His father can't really say no - he is mind-dead. Helen says no, John doesn't listen, he leaves her behind. Now, about getting to the island, i think it will either involve mrs. Hawking that seems to know a lot (but i don't know why she would help Locke) or maybe Daniel (he should know quite a bit) and/or Desmond. He will get transported to the island somehow and it will be in a distant past. And he will become the smoke monster.

There is one possibility i think you are leaving out. I think your theory is very possibly true, but there is one other option i find almost equally possible.....THAT ANTHONY COOPER COULD BE FLOCKE... imagine these steps u mention above take place....locke feels bad wants to get his father back to the island to heal him...gets him there and the isnald or jacob gives him the opportunity saying he can have all of this back but he will be in this other form, or whatever and be trapped. long story short(obviously not thinking this entirely thru) lockes dad still hoilds the grudge against him for paralyzing him tricks him into getting himself killed and comming back to the island so he can get the ultimate revenge of being able to walk and talk in the body of the one who "took it all from him" in the first place. thoughts at all?

[Amp]

ive said this millions of times before....

[Ursul]

ok, lostaholic84, maybe smokey is anthony cooper. but there aren't enough clues that he is.
instead there are a lot of clues that john lock is smokey (please read the first post of this thread).

[Lostaholic84]

So does last weeks episode "across the sea" throw your theory out the window completely? Id say most likely....although not 100%. It seems now like mib is certainly his own self(brother in across the sea)....but i guess it still leaves the possibility open that he was killed by jacob and som1 else even now takes his form. but more than likely your locke is mib theoryt is no more.

[Ursul]

yes, it does. but it was a pleasant surprise for MiB to be reveald as not being Locke but a whole new person:D

MiB doesn't have a name not because he was a character we already know but because his mother never thought she would have 2 sons. so she didn't give him any name.. nice diversion from the writers:)

it's too bad about Locke, i guess he was a sucker after all.. i loved the Locke character all troughout the first seasons.. too bad MiB is not Locke:(

you have to admit, my explanation is way cooler than the actual story