Dharma childbirths ever?

[Lostopoly]

Juliet talks about the stillbirths of the Others. This does not mean the Dharma Initiative did not have children. What happened to them?

[bunnydixon]

maybe they died in the purge?

[Lostopoly]

The Others woud not kill the babies, that's what they wanted, people they could control the thinking of.

What I am trying to get at is, is it just the childr of the OTHERS that die at birth, or ALL children. Jack has not yet asked that question. And Ben isn't telling anyone.

[bunnydixon]

its not all children as obviously alex and aaron survived - i thought you meant if dharma women had given birth before the purge - the children would have grown up normally and then died during the purge as they would not be babies anymore. perhaps ben was not aware there would be an issue with childbirth at that point thus not caring if any younger children and babies did die.

[1hourisntlongenough]

alex and aaron (and their moms) survived because they were conceived off the island..Only when women conceive on the island do they not survive (and usually die in 2nd trimester) Which is why Sun is in danger because she conceived on the island.....

[Lostopoly]

Yes but what does Juliet know medically about the fertility facts regarding the differences between the Dharma childbirths and the Others childbirths? Wouldn't she need to know that? What if Ben gave her the wrong information?

It sounds to me as if the Others, not the island, are the contact that kills the kids. Think what would happen to Ben if that were known. They would all leave him. And, do we know if all the kids were fathered by Ben or not? Or men born on the island or not?

[bunnydixon]

yep - no idea if the original dharma peeps ever gave birth though. we dont really see any infants in bens flashback but that doesnt mean there wasn't any.

oh so many questions....

[bunnydixon]

i wonder if ben had a wife/partner who died whilst pregnant?

[Lostopoly]

I still think Juliet is playing a deep con. There is so much Jack doesn't know. Juliet and Richard may not be able to have children.

[King_Nate]

Yea Speaking Of Babies, Did Sawyer Fill Kates Belly With A Baby?........if So I Bet Jack Will Figure Out How 2 Save Her Baby, Even Tho Its Sawyers Too....the Writers Are Beyond Genious...i Dont Believe There Isnt A Backbone Script They Go Off Of, So They Know Where Each Character Is Going. And As Far As Walt...he Was With "the Other Kids In Season 3" But They Never Show Any Of Them...ever.....?whats Up With That?

[Lostopoly]

I think Walt is channeling to the island. That's why Jacob can't stop him.

[aZiXx]

Yes but what does Juliet know medically about the fertility facts regarding the differences between the Dharma childbirths and the Others childbirths? Wouldn't she need to know that? What if Ben gave her the wrong information?

It sounds to me as if the Others, not the island, are the contact that kills the kids. Think what would happen to Ben if that were known. They would all leave him. And, do we know if all the kids were fathered by Ben or not? Or men born on the island or not?

What wrong info would Ben have given Juliet? She was the fertility doctor, she had 9 patients die in efforts to try and solve this 2nd trimester death issue that Ben brought her there for. Since he brought her to the island for this problem I do think he would help her with all the information she needs in regards to solving the problem he has.

We don't know anything about child birthing prior to the current problems. I suspect conception on the island did lead to a successful child birthing prior to a possibly Dharma created illness. The indigenous people, as Richard appears to be one, are indigenous because they lived there before Dharma. I would think they were able to continue the generations of life. When Dharma wanted to experiment and the indigenous peoples were branded hostile, they attempted to find ways of getting rid of them. One possible way would be the death in 2nd trimester if conceived on the island. This would be a problem for Dharma but since they had a submarine they could always bring new blood to the island :) Maybe the virus/plague is related to this theory.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

I personally belive this whole thing relates back to the Bible. When Jacob's mother (Rebecca from the bible) had trouble in child labor with her 2 sons, Jacob and Esau. I personally don't know that much about the Bible, but there was somthing about Jacob "struggling with God" and he fought an angel to for some reason. So maybe thats why God "Loved" him and doesn't "Love" currently him.??!?! I'm not sure if this makes any sense at all, but I do think the Bible has more answers than we know. I have 1 thing to say "ECKO"S STAFF"!

[Dzbabykel]

Good point Ezekial....do you remember what was written on his staff again? I had completely forgotten about that (hence why i want to go back and restart watching it again lol). I definitely agree with the religious theme Lost seems to be taking with Jacob, I just don't know enough about the Bible to make any connections.

Hmm church this Sunday anyone??? :p

[Ezekiel 25:17]

That makes 2 of us. I really don't know too much about biblical teachings, other than that they are difficult to interpret, and have many interpretations, so we may think 1 correct thing, but the show may have a very different view, thats what makes it interesting.

[phoebe beeberbee]

Also - I still want to know, when they were 'interviewing' Juliette for her role on the island - or at least when they were trying to get her interested, they showed her the x-ray of a pregnant woman. I seem to recall that Juliette spotted this woman was elderly.

We still don't know who that was. Maybe the island can cure or blight at will? It cured Locke and Rose. It allowed Ben to become ill. It can get an old lady pregnant (like Juliette could get a chemo patient pregnant) but it can also end pregnancies.

What was in the serum that Ethan gave Claire? Was it really helpful or was it a drug to dope her? What was it that Juliette was giving Sun (I have forgotten that bit - I remember the others faking an illness to panic everyone).

Maybe if the people on the island - like Richard - appear to have ever lasting youth (or ability to time travel) then there is surely no need to breed anyway? If you can stay young forever - what is the purpose of a future generation?

[aZiXx]

"Juliette spotted this woman was elderly."

If i recall correctly, it looked like an elderly woman, but she wasn't actually old. 23 sound right? I forget exact age mentioned. This is like being 30 and having the back of a 70 year old... there are things like this in medical community where people have problems and some parts of their bodies appear older, as though it was a 60 or 70 years when they are not.

[Dzbabykel]

Also I believe the writers said that they are going to let us know WHY Ben got his spinal problem this season which shows that there is more to that then just a typical medical problem. Remember when Juliete shows him the x-ray at first and tells him his problem he's in utter disbelief. It might be unheard of to get sick on the island...thats why he thought it was fate that a spinal surgeon crashed on the island the same day he found out.

[megaloman]

Jacob, from the bible came from a fairly ordinary family. his mother, rebekah did have trouble when jacob and his twin esau were born. basically jacob turned out to be the runt, while esau became a skillfull hunter. issac, jacobs father took notice to this and preatty much, easu became his favorite son. since jacob was weak he spent most of his time at home with his mother. eventually he got jealous and had to manipulate his father for attention. eventually God sends a famine over the city but blesses isaac with food where ever he looks. this ends up being a birthright that seems valuable. so most likely issac will pass it on to esau. this turns into a big family argument of who gets the birthright. and eventually comes down to the very manipulative mother telling jacob that esau is going to kill him, she tells him to run away and he does, jacob is never seen by his mother again,
my guess is this jacob has resembalence to the jacob in lost, manipulating ben to manipulate others. i think there is no doubt that the bible has major influence on the show

[Dzbabykel]

Another thing I thought of regarding Jacob and his twin brother Esau....Esau in in the bible is known as "the hunter" which Locke is referenced MANY times in Lost to be a hunter. Some instances I can think of off the top of my head is when he lives with that family who are secretly growing the marijuana stash and he goes in the woods to kill the man that was going to expose the only family he felt he had, the man tells Locke "you won't kill me...you're a farmer not a murderer" Locke corrects him and says, "No I'm a hunter." Then this is referenced again when they crash on the island, he becomes the go to guy for hunting all the boars to eat, he also would go hunting with his dad before things went sour. I believe Ben even refers to him as a "hunter" as well. Anyway just found it interesting :)