Ben in Tunisia - 2005 (1 year ahead!)

[XmasDVD]

Remember our losties are in 2004 so Ben is in October 2005 in the Desert.
It's the future since Sayid knows who he is.

Sounds like Ben bring's Sayid's killers to justice by having Sayid kill them in the future...

[Snape]

I think that opening flash-forward gets lost amidst the tumult that followed in the rest of the episode. Does ANYONE not see the connection between BEN just magically appearing in Tunisia and the fact that that's the same place that the POLAR BEAR WITH A DHARMA LOGO was found by Charlotte?!

[wvugurl]

I think that opening flash-forward gets lost amidst the tumult that followed in the rest of the episode. Does ANYONE not see the connection between BEN just magically appearing in Tunisia and the fact that that's the same place that the POLAR BEAR WITH A DHARMA LOGO was found by Charlotte?!

i thought that is where it was..but i also have questioned if charlottes thing was a ff....but yes did look the same...and when ben landed (kind of a quantem leap thing) i said that same thing..

[JezzyTheJezebel]

I think that opening flash-forward gets lost amidst the tumult that followed in the rest of the episode. Does ANYONE not see the connection between BEN just magically appearing in Tunisia and the fact that that's the same place that the POLAR BEAR WITH A DHARMA LOGO was found by Charlotte?!

Yep I definitely saw the connection. How else did he end up there, out of nowhere, no visible means of transportation. It's definitely a clue as to what is going on. Some sort of time travel or transportation device.

[Phoenix]

yeah, I called Tunisia the moment it started. Connections everywhere....

I'm really glad they explained why and how Sayid started working for Ben. It's interesting....he's protecting them somehow...

[hobbes]

My interpretation of the events was that after Alex was killed, Ben went into that hidden room and transported himself to Tunisia to "change the rules" by killing one of Widmore's men. Hence why he came back into the room on the island dirty wearing Dharma clothes. Now my question is did he summon smokie, or did smokie coming have something to do with the fact that Ben left the island and killed someone - did he kill someone that was in Widmore's party attacking them? By killing the man, did he alter events on the island?

[XmasDVD]

Yep I definitely saw the connection. How else did he end up there, out of nowhere, no visible means of transportation. It's definitely a clue as to what is going on. Some sort of time travel or transportation device.

...I think it's called "The Orchid" - Betcha! It was mentioned how significant this station would be in the scheme of things (Time travel) not just the gas thing.

[addictedtopainmeds]

My interpretation of the events was that after Alex was killed, Ben went into that hidden room and transported himself to Tunisia to "change the rules" by killing one of Widmore's men. Hence why he came back into the room on the island dirty wearing Dharma clothes. Now my question is did he summon smokie, or did smokie coming have something to do with the fact that Ben left the island and killed someone - did he kill someone that was in Widmore's party attacking them? By killing the man, did he alter events on the island?

how do you explain the wound on his arm then? i think that was there to show that this happened at another time, not when he went into the closet

[notpenny]

Did you see the jacket he was wearing? "Halliwax" on the chest pocket. Also it's curious that Ben knows many different lanuages and tactics. Ben is a kind of mercenary. He's a mercenary for the island.

[Here'sLOCKEing at you,Kid]

Time travel is the jist of the big secret to the island, hence the prevailing question of fate vs free will... and the question as to whether or not just because one CAN alter fate , SHOULD he....???
It occurred to me that Ben might try to "redo" the ALex situation also so that she won't die.
And it also occurred to me that they plucked Locke's father out of the air and, just like he said, boom! There he was.
But others like Desmond and that guy who died on the freighter, don't actually disappear from one place/time to travel to another. Don't they sort of just go into a stupor for a few seconds? Somehow they are caught in the middle of this transporting thing, whereas Ben seems to be in complete control over his.
I also think there WAS a history between Ben and Juliet, by the way, because even Ben wouldn't just blurt out, "You're mine!" unless there was something there from a previous or changed situation that Juliet just doesn't remember... I got sidetracked, sorry...

[lilsev42]

Ben still lied to Sayid and told him that he used Desmond's boat to get off the island,I believe that this was after it all goes down on the island and after the oceanic 6 are made public,that is why Ben has a cut on his arm.Ben is a ****ing bad-ass!!!!

[Chipper123]

Time travel is the jist of the big secret to the island, hence the prevailing question of fate vs free will... and the question as to whether or not just because one CAN alter fate , SHOULD he....???
It occurred to me that Ben might try to "redo" the ALex situation also so that she won't die.
And it also occurred to me that they plucked Locke's father out of the air and, just like he said, boom! There he was.
But others like Desmond and that guy who died on the freighter, don't actually disappear from one place/time to travel to another. Don't they sort of just go into a stupor for a few seconds? Somehow they are caught in the middle of this transporting thing, whereas Ben seems to be in complete control over his.
I also think there WAS a history between Ben and Juliet, by the way, because even Ben wouldn't just blurt out, "You're mine!" unless there was something there from a previous or changed situation that Juliet just doesn't remember... I got sidetracked, sorry...
HHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

[notsolost42]

Now then....what a great show. To those, one specifically, who have dismissed my theories out of hand (i.e. the Stephen Hawkings book reprinted in 2005!) I have one thing to say.....VINDICATED! Ben is traveling into the future. The polar bear was sent to Tunisia. Ben orchestrated the death of whomever is in the coffin also. Hmmmm. He set it up so Saiyd would do his bidding and become his hit man. Oh and by the way, the island won't let Ben kill Widmore. Widmore has been on the island at some point.

[ortrules]

Why must everyone insist he time traveled? For starters, we don't know when he left the island. He may have left the island the same day and was simply asking for the date to make sure he didn't have any side effects when leaving the island - like Desmond did.

I'm just not sold on the time travel idea. In large part, if Ben can time travel, why not just go back in time and save his daughter? Or why didn't he go into the future to stop the freighter from getting to the island?

Let's face it, if Ben has the ability to time travel - he would be completely unstoppable. And as we've now seen, he's not.

[Missie]

Why must everyone insist he time traveled? For starters, we don't know when he left the island. He may have left the island the same day and was simply asking for the date to make sure he didn't have any side effects when leaving the island - like Desmond did.

I'm just not sold on the time travel idea. In large part, if Ben can time travel, why not just go back in time and save his daughter? Or why didn't he go into the future to stop the freighter from getting to the island?

Let's face it, if Ben has the ability to time travel - he would be completely unstoppable. And as we've now seen, he's not.

I agree...I think its more of a telaporter. Obviosly it was some Dharma experiment in which the polar bear was a success. Ben has used it before he was a preferred customer in the hotal. I found it most interesting that he was wearing Halliwax's jacket. I bet the teleporter is in the Orchid.

[ortrules]

I agree...I think its more of a telaporter. Obviosly it was some Dharma experiment in which the polar bear was a success.
100% agreed.

[notsolost42]

Okay, now I'll throw this one out there for you Ortrules. What if it's not time traveling but the time on the island is vastly different from the time in the outside world. Suppose that time moves very, very slowly on the island due to the electromagnetic pull of the island (Einstein's theory again - very basically, the heavier the gravity, the slower the time) and time is passing at it's normal rate off island. The freighter wasn't too far off shore so the difference was only a few minutes. Suppose it really is 2005 at that particular point in time on the island when Ben went into the "closet." He has some type of teletransportational device and it has to do with the metal rod he was carrying. But when he travels, time kind of catches up to itself. That's why it was 2005 when he landed in Tunisia.
Anyone else notice the heiroglyphs on the panel in his closet that opened into a kind of cave like area? They were the same type of glyphs that were on the count down clock in the hatch when it blew. Very middle eastern, Egyptian...or Tunisian looking. Anyone else think that maybe Tunisia is on the exact opposite side of the earth as the island? I forget the scientific name for it. There are theories about the Bermuda Triangle and China or something along those lines. I'll check into that more.

[ai2301]

My interpretation of the events was that after Alex was killed, Ben went into that hidden room and transported himself to Tunisia to "change the rules" by killing one of Widmore's men. Hence why he came back into the room on the island dirty wearing Dharma clothes. Now my question is did he summon smokie, or did smokie coming have something to do with the fact that Ben left the island and killed someone - did he kill someone that was in Widmore's party attacking them? By killing the man, did he alter events on the island?

While it's an interesting though, that doesn't seem like a good trade. Also, if Ben's purpose was to kill Whidmore's guy, then he just happened to have great luck in that he was at the same place Sayid was to be able to utilize Sayid to kill him.
________
Colorado Medical Marijuana (http://colorado.dispensaries.org/)

[ortrules]

Okay, now I'll throw this one out there for you Ortrules. What if it's not time traveling but the time on the island is vastly different from the time in the outside world. Suppose that time moves very, very slowly on the island due to the electromagnetic pull of the island (Einstein's theory again - very basically, the heavier the gravity, the slower the time) and time is passing at it's normal rate off island. The freighter wasn't too far off shore so the difference was only a few minutes. Suppose it really is 2005 at that particular point in time on the island when Ben went into the "closet." He has some type of teletransportational device and it has to do with the metal rod he was carrying. But when he travels, time kind of catches up to itself. That's why it was 2005 when he landed in Tunisia.
That could be. They've often alluded to some time difference on and off the island, and it's really up in the air what that time difference is. And, in fact, a lot of people theorize that the only time difference is when you go through the "atmosphere" of the island. If you think about it, that's the only time we've seen any sort of time differences, when something or someone shoots through - we saw it with Daniel's experiment and we saw it during Frank's helicopter flight.

And here's the other thing. During the constant episode they told us it was Christmas Eve (marked on the calendar and Penny had up Christmas decorations) and at that time they were on the island for 90-some days, which puts them around Christmas time. From that alone, I've contended that time on and off the island is the same - leading partly to the atmosphere problem as said above.

Also, I think the rod Ben was carrying was just a bad-ass weapon that retracts and can be hidden, nothing more.

[Snape]

Okay, now I'll throw this one out there for you Ortrules. What if it's not time traveling but the time on the island is vastly different from the time in the outside world. Suppose that time moves very, very slowly on the island due to the electromagnetic pull of the island (Einstein's theory again - very basically, the heavier the gravity, the slower the time) and time is passing at it's normal rate off island. The freighter wasn't too far off shore so the difference was only a few minutes. Suppose it really is 2005 at that particular point in time on the island when Ben went into the "closet." He has some type of teletransportational device and it has to do with the metal rod he was carrying. But when he travels, time kind of catches up to itself. That's why it was 2005 when he landed in Tunisia.


Sorry, but Einstein's theory doesn't have anything to do with electromagnetism (as far as relativity at least) - it has only to do with mass (and by corollary, gravity).

That is not what's happening on the island (unless they want to completely abandon accepted science). He either time traveled or he teleported. I lean towards teleportation.

[ConfidenceMan]

My interpretation of the events was that after Alex was killed, Ben went into that hidden room and transported himself to Tunisia to "change the rules" by killing one of Widmore's men. Hence why he came back into the room on the island dirty wearing Dharma clothes. Now my question is did he summon smokie, or did smokie coming have something to do with the fact that Ben left the island and killed someone - did he kill someone that was in Widmore's party attacking them? By killing the man, did he alter events on the island?

Altering events in the future doesn't change the past. It's the other way around.

[Missie]

Also, I think the rod Ben was carrying was just a bad-ass weapon that retracts and can be hidden, nothing more.

I dont know I think the rod had something to do with the teleportion device. He has to get back somehow. But also its a pretty cool bad ass weapon too.

[ortrules]

I dont know I think the rod had something to do with the teleportion device. He has to get back somehow. But also its a pretty cool bad ass weapon too.
There is no way back. That's why Widmore said something about both him and Ben having to find the island again. I think the teleportation device is a one-way ticket.

Also, just as reference. Retractable batons are well known self-defense items. They can easily be hidden and used when need be.
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/urdefense_1997_949180

[Missie]

There is no way back. That's why Widmore said something about both him and Ben having to find the island again. I think the teleportation device is a one-way ticket.

Also, just as reference. Retractable batons are well known self-defense items. They can easily be hidden and used when need be.
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/urdefense_1997_949180

I think Widmore was refering to Ben having to find Penny and Widmore having to find the island.

[ConfidenceMan]

There is no way back. That's why Widmore said something about both him and Ben having to find the island again. I think the teleportation device is a one-way ticket.


This makes a lot of sense.

[LostTripping]

Is it just me or did anyone else feel like Ben wasn't sure where (on when) he was when he came to in Tunisa? Also, if he knew where he was going why was he wearing an winter coat?

[addictedtopainmeds]

Okay, now I'll throw this one out there for you Ortrules. What if it's not time traveling but the time on the island is vastly different from the time in the outside world. Suppose that time moves very, very slowly on the island due to the electromagnetic pull of the island (Einstein's theory again - very basically, the heavier the gravity, the slower the time) and time is passing at it's normal rate off island. The freighter wasn't too far off shore so the difference was only a few minutes. Suppose it really is 2005 at that particular point in time on the island when Ben went into the "closet." He has some type of teletransportational device and it has to do with the metal rod he was carrying. But when he travels, time kind of catches up to itself. That's why it was 2005 when he landed in Tunisia.
Anyone else notice the heiroglyphs on the panel in his closet that opened into a kind of cave like area? They were the same type of glyphs that were on the count down clock in the hatch when it blew. Very middle eastern, Egyptian...or Tunisian looking. Anyone else think that maybe Tunisia is on the exact opposite side of the earth as the island? I forget the scientific name for it. There are theories about the Bermuda Triangle and China or something along those lines. I'll check into that more.


ok, nice one, but i only have one question, how would ben know that sayids wife would be killed and where the funeral would be?

[ai2301]

There is no way back. That's why Widmore said something about both him and Ben having to find the island again. I think the teleportation device is a one-way ticket.


We already know that they can travel freely to and from the island, so why then would Ben risk losing the island by using a teleportation device that's a one way ticket? I would think that he must have 'lost' the island for some reason.

Perhaps the island got pissed because Ben was the reason it was invaded and he's been 'banned' in a sense.
________
E-CIGS (http://www.ecigarettes123.com/)

[ortrules]

We already know that they can travel freely to and from the island, so why then would Ben risk losing the island by using a teleportation device that's a one way ticket? I would think that he must have 'lost' the island for some reason.

Perhaps the island got pissed because Ben was the reason it was invaded and he's been 'banned' in a sense.

A few things, you could be right. Maybe Ben was banished.

Secondly, maybe they don't use this teleporter much. Before now, the Others used the submarine to get on and off the island. I imagine the teleporter is a quick way of getting to your destination, but then you have to get back to the island some other way.

Thirdly, maybe it's like Star Trek where you have to use a device to beam you to the destination, but then you need someone back on the island to beam you back.

[BomberDawg95]

A few things, you could be right. Maybe Ben was banished.

Secondly, maybe they don't use this teleporter much. Before now, the Others used the submarine to get on and off the island. I imagine the teleporter is a quick way of getting to your destination, but then you have to get back to the island some other way.

Thirdly, maybe it's like Star Trek where you have to use a device to beam you to the destination, but then you need someone back on the island to beam you back.

Perhaps, more likely, the system is extremely unstable/unreliable. Ben knew that where he was going was his only shot at 'survival' and so he took the opportunity.

[ortrules]

Perhaps, more likely, the system is extremely unstable/unreliable. Ben knew that where he was going was his only shot at 'survival' and so he took the opportunity.
Right. He did have that big cut on his arm, so maybe he needed to get away fast. Plus, I'm sure the Others are still on the island to protect it, so Ben can freely go get his revenge.

[zwishmaster]

how do you explain the wound on his arm then? i think that was there to show that this happened at another time, not when he went into the closet

same with how he left the island to bring locke's dad to the island?

[ConfidenceMan]

I think Richard brought Anthony Cooper to the island.

[notsolost42]

Ort, I appreciate your photos of batons. But I have to disagree. Maybe it has a two-fold purpose. Maybe the alloy it is made from is very strong and hard and it can be used as a weapon but I absolutely think that it has to do with the time travel/teleportation. Hey, if Dr. Who could use a phone booth!

[XmasDVD]

I think this is a TV show and none of it is real... :--)

[ortrules]

Ort, I appreciate your photos of batons. But I have to disagree. Maybe it has a two-fold purpose. Maybe the alloy it is made from is very strong and hard and it can be used as a weapon but I absolutely think that it has to do with the time travel/teleportation. Hey, if Dr. Who could use a phone booth!
Two things.

1 - If the baton is used for teleporting, Ben would have it in his hand, not his pocket.

2 - If the baton is the teleportation device and is the way to return home, I doubt you'd constantly try to use it as a weapon and risk breaking it.

[cheapshot11b]

i thought the baton was an interesting weapon of choice. (not to mention the sawed off he pulled from the piano seat & the mini14s or modified SKS's)

batons are illegal in alot of states-not that Ben has a problem with illegal stuff, but it would be a weapon used in close quarters. For instance, the doorman at CWidmore's hotel nearly had his face rearranged had he not allowed Ben to enter the building. Also, it is silent....firearms are no good in stealth situations....

[Snape]

I keep seeing the word baton and imagining Ben as a majorette trying to do feats with it - perhaps with it on fire!

[cheapshot11b]

Perhaps, more likely, the system is extremely unstable/unreliable. Ben knew that where he was going was his only shot at 'survival' and so he took the opportunity.

i thought the same thing at 1st, but then I thought how did he have a reservation at the Tunisian hotel under 1 of his alias'?

was it set up over the phone, or internet like expedia? it looked like a coded message with the desk clerk when he gave his alias, and she handed him the keys or whatever....

When Charlette located the polar bear in Tunisia, I believe it was an initial discovery, and from that point they began setting up an operation staging area with whatever useful contacts they would need...


hope that made sense)

[goinwitheflo]

I think this is a TV show and none of it is real... :--)
damn, so ive been wasting my time on google earth looking for this special island. now what am i going to do with all the time i waste at work. lol

[XmasDVD]

LOL and did you succeed in finding it?

[bubbleboy]

i thought the same thing at 1st, but then I thought how did he have a reservation at the Tunisian hotel under 1 of his alias'?

was it set up over the phone, or internet like expedia? it looked like a coded message with the desk clerk when he gave his alias, and she handed him the keys or whatever....

When Charlette located the polar bear in Tunisia, I believe it was an initial discovery, and from that point they began setting up an operation staging area with whatever useful contacts they would need...


hope that made sense)
The reservation may have been a standing reservation i.e. the room was paid for continuously so it is always available but now that I think about it, the woman seemed perplexed. Perhaps she was aware of all the reservations and knew there was no reservation for that name but when she checked it was suddenly there.

[XmasDVD]

She was definetly concrened about the name. Her attitude changed too - instead of treating him like an American visitor she was treating him like royalty. Strange.

[ItsAllAboutFate]

ok, nice one, but i only have one question, how would ben know that sayids wife would be killed and where the funeral would be?

Becasue Ben killed Sayds wife and then lied about it. Simple

[Archangel-Player]

yeah, I called Tunisia the moment it started. Connections everywhere....

I'm really glad they explained why and how Sayid started working for Ben. It's interesting....he's protecting them somehow...
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Yes. It's like Ben is altering time to counter another time zone that could have major results on the universe and the very fabric of time. But Why the future? Why not travel in time to the past and prevent the freighter crew from coming to the island? Unless what ever he is trying to stop or alter happends in the future. That is if. That is what Ben is doing traveling in time.

[notsolost42]

The clerk at the desk in Tunisia was one of the "Dharma" crew from Ben's gang. I guess it's like a secret organization. Her look completely changed when she saw the name and she instantly recognized it and gave Ben whatever he wanted/needed.