Why did Charlie die?

[zmoonchild]

When Mikhail blows the window to the control room and the water comes flooding in, Charlie should have been able to survive because a large air bubble should have formed at the top of the control room he was in.

The water that was rushing in would have only filled up to the level of the window, maybe just a little bit higher, but there still should have been a large enough air pocket above that point in which Charlie could have survived long enough to try and figure a way out.

He could have taken a very deep breath and swam out the window and back below the Looking Glass station and came back in the way he originally entered the station, from underneath.

I know that it was just an oversight on the writers and producers of the show, but I just though I’d bring it to light.
:)

[lenk@]

I know that it was just an oversight on the writers and producers of the show, but I just though I’d bring it to light.
:)[/QUOTE]

Charley is very pitiful me...I think he would pull through...there all so was tangled

[Hurley's Left Sock]

When Mikhail blows the window to the control room and the water comes flooding in, Charlie should have been able to survive because a large air bubble should have formed at the top of the control room he was in.

The water that was rushing in would have only filled up to the level of the window, maybe just a little bit higher, but there still should have been a large enough air pocket above that point in which Charlie could have survived long enough to try and figure a way out.

He could have taken a very deep breath and swam out the window and back below the Looking Glass station and came back in the way he originally entered the station, from underneath.

I know that it was just an oversight on the writers and producers of the show, but I just though I’d bring it to light.
:)

It wasn't an oversight.
Charlie wanted to die that way because he knew knew he was going to die somehow anyway (remember Desmond's visions). This time, the vision said that if Charlie died that Claire and Aaron would be rescued from the island.
So he thought if he was going to die anyway, some good might at least come of it. So the reason that Charlie died is because he wanted to in order to save Claire and the baby. He willingly sacrificed himself. That's what made his death heroic and redeemed him in the end.

[Here'sLOCKEing at you,Kid]

It wasn't an oversight.
Charlie wanted to die that way because he knew knew he was going to die somehow anyway (remember Desmond's visions). This time, the vision said that if Charlie died that Claire and Aaron would be rescued from the island.
So he thought if he was going to die anyway, some good might at least come of it. So the reason that Charlie died is because he wanted to in order to save Claire and the baby. He willingly sacrificed himself. That's what made his death heroic and redeemed him in the end.

Yes, poor Charlie. We all loved him, but alas, bumping off a few scattered Losties is all part of what makes the show so intense. I wish it could be different. But they did say that in the end, there are not going to be very many happy campers. Only a few will have a happy ending. This saddens me.

[rip-charlie]

Yes, poor Charlie. We all loved him, but alas, bumping off a few scattered Losties is all part of what makes the show so intense. I wish it could be different. But they did say that in the end, there are not going to be very many happy campers. Only a few will have a happy ending. This saddens me.

it Saddens me too He was my Favorite and i was hoping that he and Clarie could ahve had a happy ending family but i guess I was wrong for both of them !!! I hope nothing happens to Sawyer or Hurley.

[zmoonchild]

It wasn't an oversight.
Charlie wanted to die that way because he knew knew he was going to die somehow anyway (remember Desmond's visions). This time, the vision said that if Charlie died that Claire and Aaron would be rescued from the island.
So he thought if he was going to die anyway, some good might at least come of it. So the reason that Charlie died is because he wanted to in order to save Claire and the baby. He willingly sacrificed himself. That's what made his death heroic and redeemed him in the end.

Ah… Charlie did not want to die; he wanted to live.
Charlie had prepared himself for death because he had come to believe that it was inevitable.

Watch the scene just before he locks himself inside the small radio control room, he asks Desmond if he’s had any more versions. Desmond tells him ‘no’ new visions. Charlie then becomes really excited because he now thinks that he’ll survive.
Charlie even says” “So much for fate.”

It isn’t until after Charlie sees Mikhail with the hand grenade that he realizes that Desmond’s vision is real.

Also, how is it not an oversight? The radio control room would have had a large pocket of air that would have formed at the very top of the room itself. The hand grenade blast only destroyed the window, nothing else; so the water level could only rise to that point or little higher.

Also, the window was large enough for Charlie to swim through, which is another oversight.

I do realize that the writers would have found some way for Charlie to die no matter what, but he could have escaped the radio control if he wanted to, or at the very least survived long enough with the pocket of air that would have formed near the top of the control room itself. That’s where the oversight comes in.
:)

[Hurley's Left Sock]

Ah… Charlie did not want to die; he wanted to live.
Charlie had prepared himself for death because he had come to believe that it was inevitable.
Charlie knew that he was destined to die because no matter how many times Desmond tried to avert it, it happened again. By dieing in the Looking Glass incident, he saw a way of rescuing Claire and Aaron. This is why he made no obvious attempt to escape. So logically Charlie wanted to die in this way.
I'm not saying he was suicidal and wanted to die for it's own sake. But he wanted to die to save Claire and Aaron. So yes, he wanted to die the way he did.

Above all else, Charlie wanted Claire and the baby safe.
I'm sure if there was a way to gurantee this while remaining
Yes, but there wasn't. The only way he could see to guarantee it was by drowining in the Looking Glass which is what he chose to do. So there's no point in saying that there was some way of escaping because he didn't want to escape. He wanted to die there.

Watch the scene just before he locks himself inside the small radio control room, he asks Desmond if he’s had any more versions. Desmond tells him ‘no’ new visions. Charlie then becomes really excited because he now thinks that he’ll survive.
Charlie even says” “So much for fate.”
I assume he's happy because nothing has changed from the last vision.
The plan is that he's going to die and Claire and Aaron are saved. That's why he's happy - he's not happy he's going to die but that he believes Claire and Aaron are now guaranteed to be rescued.

It isn’t until after Charlie sees Mikhail with the hand grenade that he realizes that Desmond’s vision is real.
He believes the vision is real from the moment he chooses to undertake the mission to destroy the jamming signal. Desmond has already told him what it will entail. He realises it's real from the beginning which is why he volunteers in the first place.

Also, how is it not an oversight? The radio control room would have had a large pocket of air that would have formed at the very top of the room itself. The hand grenade blast only destroyed the window, nothing else; so the water level could only rise to that point or little higher.

Also, the window was large enough for Charlie to swim through, which is another oversight.

I do realize that the writers would have found some way for Charlie to die no matter what, but he could have escaped the radio control if he wanted to, or at the very least survived long enough with the pocket of air that would have formed near the top of the control room itself. That’s where the oversight comes in.
:)

It doesn't matter whether Charlie could have escaped. The point was that he didn't want to escape. If he had survived then there was no guarantee that Claire and Aaron would be rescued and he'd just end up dying at some point anyway. He could have survived in an air pocket, he could have swam out the window. Fair enough. But why would he do that?
As you said yourself, above all else he wanted Claire and the baby safe. Surviving would not accomplish that. Only choosing to stay and die would.
Hence, Charlie chose to stay and die.
Even if there had been a scuba diving suit in the room and and escape hatch, it still wouldn't be an oversight because Charlie would still have chosen to stay there and die.

[zmoonchild]

As you said yourself, above all else he wanted Claire and the baby safe. Surviving would not accomplish that. Only choosing to stay and die would.
Hence, Charlie chose to stay and die.I didn’t say that. You have multiple people being quoted in your reply, including myself. Most of your quotes are not labeled, and I didn’t say everything that you have me quoted as stating.

You need to go back and properly identify all of the quotes in your reply because you’re misquoting what I said. Anyone can see that I didn’t say all of those things; all they have to do is read through the previous posts.

[JJ McAbraham]

Zoom is making friends left and right.


Relax bud.

[dharmiamlost]

I think Charlie died and is going to come back to warn and advise. He was written in to die because Dom wanted out to go on to other things(pardon the pun). so, they wrote him out, but he will return a few times. He is key.
I have a question that is not really related, but sort of....
Has there been a scene either season 3 or 2 where Hurley is on the beach and there is a flash of angels sitting on each side of him? This is a very important matter.

[Here'sLOCKEing at you,Kid]

Zoom is making friends left and right.


Relax bud.

Am I gonna have to go get a ruler?....

[gingergrant]

Has there been a scene either season 3 or 2 where Hurley is on the beach and there is a flash of angels sitting on each side of him? This is a very important matter.

I don't know if Hurley was there or not, but I remember someone seeing Claire as a religious figure with Charlie's mom and doves.

[TheEQkid]

I have a question that is not really related, but sort of....
Has there been a scene either season 3 or 2 where Hurley is on the beach and there is a flash of angels sitting on each side of him? This is a very important matter.

I am thinking I remember this, I think it was when Charlie had the dreams that were later translated by Eko that Aaron needed baptized. I'll have to go back and watch it again, then I can give you season and name of the episode.

[ai2301]

I am thinking I remember this, I think it was when Charlie had the dreams that were later translated by Eko that Aaron needed baptized. I'll have to go back and watch it again, then I can give you season and name of the episode.

From S. 2, Epi. 12.
"Fire & Water"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Mu9Mgl57Yg
________
Candy_squirt live (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/Candy_squirt)

[rip-charlie]

I think Charlie died and is going to come back to warn and advise. He was written in to die because Dom wanted out to go on to other things(pardon the pun). so, they wrote him out, but he will return a few times. He is key.
I have a question that is not really related, but sort of....
Has there been a scene either season 3 or 2 where Hurley is on the beach and there is a flash of angels sitting on each side of him? This is a very important matter.

sorry i don't think that was really the way it was going I have watched interviews with Dom he said he wanted to stay but the writters wanted to remove Charlie for the show. He said he was very sad to see Charlie die. I'll try to find it and post it on here. He was Hoping for a happier ending for Claire Charlie and Aaron.

[boulderheart1]

fact is charlie died because he wanted claire and baby aaron on survive, things with the air bubble, u might have something their but i wouldnt look too much into it. he is dead end of story :)

[JJ McAbraham]

fact is charlie died because he wanted claire and baby aaron on survive, things with the air bubble, u might have something their but i wouldnt look too much into it. he is dead end of story :)

Well said.

[bearscowboys2589]

It wasn't an oversight.
Charlie wanted to die that way because he knew knew he was going to die somehow anyway (remember Desmond's visions). This time, the vision said that if Charlie died that Claire and Aaron would be rescued from the island.
So he thought if he was going to die anyway, some good might at least come of it. So the reason that Charlie died is because he wanted to in order to save Claire and the baby. He willingly sacrificed himself. That's what made his death heroic and redeemed him in the end.

To bad charlie died only to save Aaron, which anyway is only suppost to be raised by Claire, but claire is dead, so i would have to believe that jack and kate would have to bring him back to the Island so he could be raised by ghost claire and her/jack's father, and he would be the next leader of the island after John. thats my theory.:rolleyes: i think that charlie is still a hero even if he died only for hes beloved claire to die. so sad..........

[Oceanic815PiLoT]

Charlie had to die if he didn't Claire wouldnt have got off the island. Desmonds said that he saw claire getting on a helicopter but the only way that was going to happen was if charlie died. and Charlie loved claire and he knew that she wanted off the island more than anything so he had to make to sacrifice. even though i do think he could have escaped through the window

I cried when the poor guy died, he was my favorite, such a cool guy

[Hostile17]

Hi guys new to the forum! :)

It really bothers me Charlie's death as everything in lost has been so well done this is a massive flaw that reminds me its just a tv show, which is a shame because season 4 is brilliant :(

Here we go:

Theory one - The Station would of collapsed had he not closed the door

Well the water was coming in so slowly they had plenty of time to get out. Even if the water from the moon pool had rose they could of waited till the place was fully flooded and then swam out (there is a good chance the water would of only gone up to a certain level as well). Also what sense design wise would it have made to lock the door from the inside only in a station like that? With the water coming in so slowly and Charlie choosing to die why did patchy explode the grenade, he couldn't of possibly known Charlie "wanted/had" to die down there, it would have otherwise been a very feeble assignation attempt.

Theory Two - Charlie HAD to die in order to get Claire rescued

Ok the original theory (in greatest hits) that the station was flooded was sound because he had to flick the switch to transmit the signal. Now I've read other people say Charlie had to die but to me that just doesn't make any sense. How could Charlie living effect if they would get rescued? Even if Charlie being alive caused ripples that effected the time line in those few days till the losties got rescued what could Charlie possibly have done that would have resulted in them not being saved??

Even if Charlie did believe he had to die to save them he knew that it wasn't Penny's boat at that time and so he surly couldn't believe killing himself would bring rescue. If he simply accepted his death was coming why would he choose to do it in such circumstances that serious questions had arisen about the supposed rescue.

Theory Three - Charlie closed the door to save Desmond.

Desmond isn't stupid he wouldn't have stayed in the station till it flooded just for a few seconds with Penny.

Theory Four - Desmond is evil or being manipulated

This is the only theory I can believe to be honest. He basically broke Charlie down into accepting he was going to die. Charlie essentially committed suicide. Had he not told Charlie about his "death" it would have not happened at all (which is different to every other vision he had previously in which if he did nothing Charlie would have died (the rocks, the arrow in the jungle etc). We also did not see this last vision he had unlike every other one. We also don't really know what happened when he originally got his powers and why they seemed to focus solely around Charlie (we know why from a writers point of view but not based on the actual lost storyline).


I really hope we get some kind of resolution to this as whatever way you look at it it looks like Charlie threw his life away. I just can't see why so many fans simply buy the Charlie had to die to save everyone else line when every other aspect of the show is scrutinized to such fine detail! There was only one objective to secure rescue at that point and that was to flick the switch. It would have all made perfect sense up until we found out the station wasn't flooded!

[0o0dead0o0]

charlie died cus mikhail ownend him!:p

[Hostile17]

lol So it is basically a writers error? Have the producers ever commented on why Charlie died? Its certainly not obvious.

Maybe in the script the water was mean to come in a lot faster or something!?

[Sweetdude49]

Desmond said his vision was that Claire got on a helicopter with the baby and they're rescued. Thus this is why Charlie sacrificed himself so they would be rescued. As of right now, Claire is off with her dad and Aaron is on the freighter taken there by the zodiac craft. Neither used the helicopter taken there. So.... either the writers changed how they wanted things to turn out..... f'ed up... or Desmond never really did see Claire getting on the helicopter with Aaron only thinking it that way.

[Hostile17]

Yeah it lends credibility to the fact that Desmond might have been manipulated by the island or someone else.

Still even if that is the case it was a bit of a pathetic end for Patchy in that case as like I said earlier there was no way that grenade would of killed anyone but himself had Charlie not wanted to die. Surly Patchy would have known this with his military training.

Also I think Charlie was in a pretty emotional place because of Des but had he thought about his actions clearly for a few seconds he would have realized that him being alive would have no impact on if Claire got rescued once he switch had been pulled.

[Sawyerminxter]

When Mikhail blows the window to the control room and the water comes flooding in, Charlie should have been able to survive because a large air bubble should have formed at the top of the control room he was in.

The water that was rushing in would have only filled up to the level of the window, maybe just a little bit higher, but there still should have been a large enough air pocket above that point in which Charlie could have survived long enough to try and figure a way out.

He could have taken a very deep breath and swam out the window and back below the Looking Glass station and came back in the way he originally entered the station, from underneath.

I know that it was just an oversight on the writers and producers of the show, but I just though I’d bring it to light.
:)
Well you have been thinking about that matter rather much. It seems Charlie shouldn't of died as he should of survived. Thinking of him being dead is just so hard for me! I liked him.

[-XENOMORPHMELT-]

They could of pulled off final destination style charlie dies in the water gets revived by desmond hopefully he can handle a man kiss lol.

[zmoonchild]

Zoom is making friends left and right.
LOL
Well… whatever you got to tell yourself I guess.

[Apocolypse]

I always wondered if he could have fit out the window.

[Dead but Here]

There are several things that sort of bug me about Charlie's death. (Other than the fact that Charlie died, that is. :p)

I think it's perfect for him to die a hero and will actually be annoyed if they do anything to mess that up, but I think there's more to the story than what we've seen.

1) Des told him he was going to die and that "Claire and her baby" would get on a helicopter. That's what made Charlie do it. Claire and her baby clearly did not get on a helicopter. Some have said maybe they would in the future, but Aaron is no longer a baby. She'd have to have another baby for that to be true. (which isn't impossible, I guess, since she and Charlie were shacked up, except for the whole likelihood of dying from it part)

2) Charlie would not have been in the Looking Glass at all if Des hadn't told him to be. He wasn't going to volunteer for that mission and Jack sure wasn't going to pick him. He had to argue to get it.

3) They weren't supposed to leave. Charlie is the only one who could have disabled that whatsit. That's what led to the leaving. Was he supposed to be down there at all? Ben sort of freaked out when he heard he was down there.

4) The things Des told Charlie to get him to go didn't happen. What did happen? Des got to Penny.

5) Supposedly, if all the parts of the vision happen, the foreseen outcome happens. So did Des lie about the events he saw, or did Charlie live? Or perhaps there was some other thing that was changed... I doubt Charlie lived. He even said to Hurley that he had died.

6) Ghost Charlie looks older. His hair, his clothes, the way he carries himself and talks... He looks like a more grown up and more sophisticated version of the little drug addled Rock God.

They haven't shown us any of the flashes. I think it's possible Des lied. I wonder if it was himself he saw talk to Penny and then die. It would be easy for him to come to the conclusion that Charlie was doomed anyway without him to save his butt over and over... and maybe to think the hobbit owed him since he'd already saved him... Des fans, please don't freak on me. I like Des. But he's got his flaws the same as all the others. That's why I like him.

I've also wondered if Charlie actually would have died if Des hadn't stepped in. There are many, many times he cheated death, starting in the pilot. He seemed to be charmed. In the pilot alone I think he missed dying about four or five different times. I always giggle when I see his reaction to the flying chunk of airplane that almost crushed him on the beach. (Note to self: If you're ever in a plane crash, be stoned.)

[berelain3]

There are several things that sort of bug me about Charlie's death. (Other than the fact that Charlie died, that is. :p)

I think it's perfect for him to die a hero and will actually be annoyed if they do anything to mess that up, but I think there's more to the story than what we've seen.

1) Des told him he was going to die and that "Claire and her baby" would get on a helicopter. That's what made Charlie do it. Claire and her baby clearly did not get on a helicopter. Some have said maybe they would in the future, but Aaron is no longer a baby. She'd have to have another baby for that to be true. (which isn't impossible, I guess, since she and Charlie were shacked up, except for the whole likelihood of dying from it part)

2) Charlie would not have been in the Looking Glass at all if Des hadn't told him to be. He wasn't going to volunteer for that mission and Jack sure wasn't going to pick him. He had to argue to get it.

3) They weren't supposed to leave. Charlie is the only one who could have disabled that whatsit. That's what led to the leaving. Was he supposed to be down there at all? Ben sort of freaked out when he heard he was down there.

4) The things Des told Charlie to get him to go didn't happen. What did happen? Des got to Penny.

5) Supposedly, if all the parts of the vision happen, the foreseen outcome happens. So did Des lie about the events he saw, or did Charlie live? Or perhaps there was some other thing that was changed... I doubt Charlie lived. He even said to Hurley that he had died.

6) Ghost Charlie looks older. His hair, his clothes, the way he carries himself and talks... He looks like a more grown up and more sophisticated version of the little drug addled Rock God.

They haven't shown us any of the flashes. I think it's possible Des lied. I wonder if it was himself he saw talk to Penny and then die. It would be easy for him to come to the conclusion that Charlie was doomed anyway without him to save his butt over and over... and maybe to think the hobbit owed him since he'd already saved him... Des fans, please don't freak on me. I like Des. But he's got his flaws the same as all the others. That's why I like him.

I've also wondered if Charlie actually would have died if Des hadn't stepped in. There are many, many times he cheated death, starting in the pilot. He seemed to be charmed. In the pilot alone I think he missed dying about four or five different times. I always giggle when I see his reaction to the flying chunk of airplane that almost crushed him on the beach. (Note to self: If you're ever in a plane crash, be stoned.)

I agree with you!! I've always thought Charlie's death to be unneccesary(how the hell do you spell it??)
What bugged me most was that he could have jumped out that room and turned the wheel from the other side with Desmond!
I know a lot of people is that he wasn't supposed to but,darn it, hang the supposing! Charlie was ready to leave and happy about it before mother russia showed up!

[Itssas83]

OK I have a big feeling that Desmond did not see the vision he described to Charlie. I haven't seen the episode "The Looking Glass" in over a year but when i saw it, I watched it over and over at least 10-15 times. I was sad Charlie died, being a musician myself, I had a bit of a connection with him.

Here's how i recall it, please if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. Desmond was saving Charlie because he knew through his visions, how Charlie was going to die. When Charlie found out Desmond was having these visions, he bagan asking him ow it will happen next. Then I believe... I'm not sure of this, but i believe that Desmond had a vision of him getting in touch with Penny via the Looking Glass, and he knew that someone was going to die in the process. He did not want to die himself, and knew Charlies death was inevitable, so he told him that if he died in the Looking Glass unjamming the signal so he can reach Penny, he will be saving Claire and baby Aaron. He said if he died unjamming the signal they would be rescued by the helicopter...

But I don't recall seeing a vision of Charlie's death in that fashion, or a vision of anyone getting on a helicopter. What i do believe I remember is Desmond acting very shady about explaining it to Charlie and acting like he was not telling the truth.

I believe he knew that this was the only was to see Penny again, and he knew that Charlie's death was going to happen anyway, so he figured "hey he mind as well die helping us out, instead of uselessly getting shot by an arrow or something of that sort..."

Anyone watch this episode lately and / or have any memories as to what exactly happened? I'll download the episode tonight because it's a great one anyway and reply again if I see anything interesting...

Like I said, I could be completely wrong about that whole thing, thats just the way I recall it rigt now... :)

[julialoveslost]

In response to no one in particular, Charlie didn't swim out the window since then he knew he wouldn't have had time to write "Not Penny's Boat" on his hand. He had also been told by Desmond that if he didn't die this time, Claire and Aaron wouldn't get rescued.

However, Charlie is dead and there's nothing we can do. :( I bawled when I watched the season finale today, because Charlie had always been my favorite. We're both musicians, and he provided a veneer of brightness to a very dark situation on the show. We'll miss him.

[myohmy]

charlie died because the universe was course correcting. remember in season 1 when he was hung and dead. cpr should not have been able to save him. instead he was saved by the island for a greater purpose. this purpose it seems was to end the communications block to bring the freighter people which would lead to a series of very important events in the show. however, since the island saved him, it had to protect him since it knew the universe would try to fix the 'wrong' that was charlie surviving. thus it suplied desmond with visions of the future. why desmond, because only he as the failsafe turner could resieve them (these were different than the smokey visions weve seen). so the power that saved charlie and continues to save charlie wants him to do his job and then let him die since course correcting needs to happen. that is why claire appeared in the vision, not because she was supposed to get on the helicopter but because the visions were supplied and this is the only way charlie would do what was necessary.