Why Austrailia IS the Key

[notsolost42]

Okay folks, check this one out. I have been thinking about why they say that Austrailia is the key to the show. Well, everyone keeps thinking in terms of the survivors and the plane originating from there. I began to think in a different direction. I began to think about the ancient civilization and Austrailia. Now, I was right on board thinking that the ancient civilization came from Tunisia or somewhere in the middle east with Roman or Greek influences because of the statue. Well, not anymore. It dawned on me that the oldest continuous civilization in the world are the Aborigine's. They are from Austrailia. I started to check out info about them.
All I'm going to tell you is to go to Wikipedia and search Dreamtime. It is the foundation of Aborigine's beliefs. I think it is a real tell about the show! All of the whispers, the dead people coming back, etc. Maybe even the black smoke. Please folks, check this out.

[cheapshot11b]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamtime


in case you're interested


your welcome.

[notsolost42]

Thanks for the link....

[notsolost42]

Here's one more link that is helpful.
http://www.crystalinks.com/dreamtime.html
A brief exerp:

The Australian aboriginal shamans - "clever men" or "men of high degree" -- described "celestial ascents" to meet with the "sky gods" such as Baiame, Biral, Goin and Bundjil. Many of the accounts of ritualistic initiation bare striking parallels to modern day UFO contactee and abduction lore. The aboriginal shamanic "experience of death and rising again" in the initiation of tribal "men of high degree" finds some fascinating parallels with modern day UFO abduction lore. The "chosen one" (either voluntarily or spontaneously) is set upon by "spirits", ritualistically "killed", and then experiences a wondrous journey (generally an aerial ascent to a strange realm) to met the "sky god." He is restored to life - a new life as the tribal shaman.

Wheel chair bound John Locke died in the crash of Flight 815. Reborn in the wreckage he stood up and walked. (death and rising again) Time passes and Ben takes John to meet Jacob (the sky god) Didn't Ben say that John Locke was the chosen one???????

There is also a passage eerily similar to the black smoke. It is about creation.
As follows:

One event succeeded another with bewildering rapidity. A puff of smoke billowed from the tree. The two frightened observers heard a rending sound as the tree lifted itself from the ground, its roots snapping one by one, and soared across the river, rising as it took a course to the south. As it passed by they had a momentary glimpse of two large, glaring eyes within its shadow, and two white cockatoos with frantically flapping wings, trying to catch up with the flying tree, straining to reach the shelter of its branches.

There is also interesting lore about when the spirit enters the woman's body when she is pregnant. This was from Wiki:

They believe that every person in an essential way exists eternally in the Dreaming. This eternal part existed before the life of the individual begins, and continues to exist when the life of the individual ends. Both before and after life, it is believed that this spirit-child exists in the Dreaming and is only initiated into life by being born through a mother. The spirit of the child is culturally understood to enter the developing foetus during the 5th month of pregnancy. When the mother felt the child move in the womb for the first time, it was thought that this was the work of the spirit of the land in which the mother then stood. Upon birth, the child was considered to be a special custodian of that part of their country and taught of the stories and songlines of that place.

So the 5th month is the second trimester when the pregnant women die and maybe that's when the spirit enters their bodies and the spirit is not happy that it is not someone who belongs on or to the island.

There are so many, many things that actually seem to be what the greater storyline is about! I guess it's this Aboriginal Dreamtime mixed with scientific fact and sprinkled with Greek Mythology! Go figure! Wow!

[Glenn2000]

I read the information and it was very informative.

So, what are you saying? Are the Survivors in a Dreamtime?

Is the island a physical manifestation of the Dreamtime?

Are the Survivors really dead? If so, what about the Others and the Freighter Folks and Charles Widmore?

I'm confused...

[notsolost42]

Right now, until I can figure more out for myself too, I am saying that I believe Aboriginal Dreamtime is big part of the writers "overall theme" of the show. I think that I have found three important correlations between characters and storyline, which I mentioned above. The overall theme of Dreamtime is that the past, present and future are all around us and happen at the same time. I am understanding this premise to explain the whispers and the dead people that keep showing up. The Aborigine's believe that when you die you are not exactly dead and return. I also found a chart that depicts Aboriginal Development. It's on the second site I linked. There are three worlds; Human World, Physical World and Sacred World. It's a little tough to read as it may have been scanned into the page and is blurry. One thing I can read very clearly is that there is a direct link from Human World to Rules of Behavior. Didn't Ben tell Charles Widmore that he broke the rules when Alex was killed? Take a look. Take time to read the info. I know it's alot but it's worthwhile to go through it. I really think that there is a direct relationship between this Dreamtime and the overall big picture of the show. It explains an awful lot.

[ortrules]

Very interesting! For once, I don't feel the need to debate you! :D

Just one question regarding this:

So the 5th month is the second trimester when the pregnant women die and maybe that's when the spirit enters their bodies and the spirit is not happy that it is not someone who belongs on or to the island.

I get the whole new comers aren't welcome to the island bit. But then does this mean that the island is killing the women as a punishment for getting pregnant? And if that's the case, are the fathers equally punished in some way?

[notsolost42]

I'm not sure Ort. I am thinking along the lines that when the spirit enters the woman's body in the 5th month that it recognizes the fact that the fetus is an intruder on the island and is not a reincarnate from Dreamland. I'm still researching and found this now too. New link with lots more info and definitions...
http://www.janesoceania.com/australia_aboriginal_mythology/index1.htm

I also found a definition on the first page that mentioned the Indian belief of Dharma. I'm sorry, I copied it to paste here and forgot and copied the link. I just tried looking through it real quick but didn't see it. I have to take some time.

[notsolost42]

Okay, it took a few minutes but here it is:
This is the definition of Dreaming:
Dreamings or totems are eternally present, although a foundation may be made and this is termed the Dreamtime, the beginning of the world. It was then that the ancestral beings moved about, forming the landscape, creating the plants, animals and people, founding and teaching language, ceremony, laws and marriage rules and stabilizing the cosmic and human order. Dreaming is also termed 'the Law' in the sense of the Hindu concept of dharma, the process underlying the universe. One's Dreaming is one's Law.
See also Ancestral beings, Creation myths; Dreaming tracks; Dreaming tree of life; Great battles; Sacred places; totems.

I also thought this was an interesting definition because it made me think of Jacob's cabin encircled with ash:

Boro circles:
The boro circles or grounds are the sacred ceremonial grounds of the Australian Aborigines. In the eastern regions they consist of a larger and smaller circular ground connected by a path. the smaller boro ground is said to represent the Sky-World where Biame has his home. It is forbidden to non-initiates. the larger ground represents the earth and is public. the ceremonies performed there are less secret. Boro circles occur all over Australia and have different names in the different languages. In regard to these circles Bill Neidijie says. This "outside" story. Anyone can listen, Kid, no matter who, but that "inside" story you can't say. If you go in a ring-place, middle of a ring-place, you not supposed to tell im anybody - but, oh, e's nice.'

[gingergrant]

Okay folks, check this one out. I have been thinking about why they say that Austrailia is the key to the show. Well, everyone keeps thinking in terms of the survivors and the plane originating from there. I began to think in a different direction. I began to think about the ancient civilization and Austrailia. Now, I was right on board thinking that the ancient civilization came from Tunisia or somewhere in the middle east with Roman or Greek influences because of the statue. Well, not anymore. It dawned on me that the oldest continuous civilization in the world are the Aborigine's. They are from Austrailia. I started to check out info about them.
All I'm going to tell you is to go to Wikipedia and search Dreamtime. It is the foundation of Aborigine's beliefs. I think it is a real tell about the show! All of the whispers, the dead people coming back, etc. Maybe even the black smoke. Please folks, check this out.

This is a great theory! I want to read more about Dreamtime and find out how it can apply to Lost now.

[ConfidenceMan]

Sounds good....

[1hourisntlongenough]

This all sounds very very cool!!! It also sounds like a ton of info....so tonight when I have time I'll read through it all so I can better understand it!!! Thanks for the links!!!!

[ortrules]

Even more crazy that the definition has the word Dharma in it...

[notsolost42]

Ort, I certainly agree! That one blew me away. Okay, I'm really sorry for my ramblings but it is an awful lot of info. Check this out. I put together some very rough notes about how it all falls into place. Just jotting down quick thoughts. I hope that it's cohesive enough for you all to follow. In does make sense in my weird mind though!

Dreaming:
The Hanso Foundation and the Dharma Initiative never knew that the ancients of the island were Aboriginal. The storyline relates their interpretations of the island events in and Anglo-Saxon manner from their point of view. The white intruders have knowledge of Greek and Roman mythology, Latin and science fact. That's why the blast door map was written the way it was.
I think that the ancients possibly slowly intbred with those who came to the island; for example, the crew from the Black Rock. Note the tribal living in the episode The Brig. I think that Jacob is the Sky God of the ancients.

Black & White/Light & Shadow/Good & Evil:
Eaglehawk and Crow In many parts of Australia, the Aboriginal communities are divided into two halves which are often equated with birds symbolizing the opposites, the Ying and Yang into which the universe is divided. Thus Eagle, in South Australia, or Eaglehawk, in eastern Australia, represents Day or Light and Crow represents Night or Shade, as in the Ying and Yang circle, although as in Ying and Yang, the two halves are complementary, for example marriage must take place across the moiety line and certain ceremonies cannot be performed unless both moieties are represented.
The show constantly references light and shadow, black and white and good and evil. No question about that one.

The Science:
The science that is referenced throughout the show is real scientific theory. All except the Valenzetti Equation. The Casimir Effect, the Theory of Relativity, references to the Dilation of Time, and the spacetime continuum. The spacetime is very relative to Dreaming as the key belief is that the past, present and future all exist at the same time. I think that when one travels between the three states of being that the real scientific theories of time travel and spacetime referenced kick in. As people travel back and forth they begin to have nosebleeds in the storyline. This shows how the spacetime traveling affects them. It seems now that even when some of the dead return they have the same nose bleeds. The spoiler for next week showed that.
This very special island is itself shrouded in science. The island is so hard to find because one cannot see it. It is hidden from view by the effects of the scatter of light. This is also making the small difference in the time on the island. In the photos of the island in the Sri Lanka video on Lostpedia it shows the island is shrouded in cloud cover. The effects of light scatter can account for this as proven in the Dilation of Time and the Lorentz Contraction. By the way in the link http://www.fourmilab.ch/cship/cship.html#cont the Lorentz Contraction mentions Minkowski! He was a German mathmatician.

The Cave Door and Countdown Clock and their Hieroglyphs:
The glyphs on the cave door in Ben’s house are clearly Egyptian. They have been decoded and it was a fabulous job by DVD. I have also found a picture online under the Book of the Dead and there is one glyph that is exactly the same. No question. There is a definite connection between these and the “portal” between the island and Tunisia. I think that perhaps the portal had been found by an ancient Middle Eastern civilization also and they built this. I think they used the portal first to get to the island and found the ancients. This door seems to lead to a room where the Black Smoke can be summoned. Perhaps the Aboriginal civilization was conquered by the Middle Eastern civilization because they wanted to control the power of the smoke. The black smoke is definitely one of the referenced mythologies from the Aborigine’s.
The glyphs on the countdown clock are clearly there because they were put there by Dharma when they built the hatch and the clock. There is yet to be a verbatum decoding but I can only find letters to match symbols and not all of them at that.

Mankind and the Island:
The Valenzetti Equation is supposed to be the mathematical proof of mankind’s end. It is the only mathematic equation that is not real by legitimate standards. In the storyline Hanso and Dharma wanted to change this. I think that the Dreaming, or the island will not let it happen also. That is why the island is a manipulating events. The dreaming is doing the manipulation of people and events because mankind cannot end.

Biblical References:
Biblical names of the people involved; the person fits the biblical meaning of the name, constant spiritual references of good vs. evil, etc. There are many similarities in some of the Biblical references and Dreaming.

Thanks for your patience with me....

[1hourisntlongenough]

Has anyone read the book "Otherland" by Tad Williams??? I have been reading up on Dreamtime and they referrenced this book. Apparently the story takes place around the year 2070 and is about how life has changed with the advancement of technology. People are able to connect themselves to the internet and live an "online" life, or virtual reality.
Anyway, it sounds like it could possibly relate to the show. If you have read it, what do you think?? If you haven't read it, Google or Wiki it and tell me what you think.
Sounds pretty cool.....

[beachblinkette]

Thanks to all, esp. NotSoLost and 1HourIsNotEnough, this thread is fascinating reading. It's hard to wrap my mind around the dreamtime concept but that doesn't detract from its value for me at all. The mythology of Lost has led us in multiple directions and just makes the story more and more mind expanding. I intend to look up the Otherland book, too. I love all that futuristic stuff.

[lostlova4eva]

so do u think hurley was rite when he said that they are all dead....

[beachblinkette]

......in response to Hurley saying that they are all dead: He could be right, but you ask yourself how many kinds of "death" are there? We always tend to think of the very concrete meaning of death- the physically, heart stopping kind.
Does he mean something other than that, I don't know. He appears to be having visits from Charlie who we saw actually die.

On another forum someone wrote about the mirror matter moon theory where they predict that everyone of the Lostians will absolutely not be alive at a certain point in the future( in keeping with the theory). I keep remembering that very lengthy, scholarly essay and the prediction of doom based on that theory. It matches what Hurley is saying.

[1hourisntlongenough]

Thanks to all, esp. NotSoLost and 1HourIsNotEnough, this thread is fascinating reading. It's hard to wrap my mind around the dreamtime concept but that doesn't detract from its value for me at all. The mythology of Lost has led us in multiple directions and just makes the story more and more mind expanding. I intend to look up the Otherland book, too. I love all that futuristic stuff.

Yea this book is driving me nutz!! I'm going to get it tomorrow...I can't get over what I read on Wiki...the description of the main characters all relate to Lost's main characters, etc.....I can't believe I never heard of it before!!

[GodlessM]

There are a few holes here though

Number 1 the Blast door map was drawn by Radzinsky so had
nothing to do with the ancient civilisation on the island

There is no standing proof that there is a portal going from
the island to Tunisia. Portals are also a gate to alternate
dimensions, not another place in the same dimension, thats
just kids stuff.

Ans the Casimir Effect is a true and real scientific theory.

[notsolost42]

GodlessM, if you get off of your high horse and read what was actually written, once again I have to ask you that. When you do so, it will be quite apparent that no one said anything about the blast door map having to do with an ancient civilization. The door being referenced was the cave door in Ben's house. Also, it of course is simply speculation that there is a portal going to Tunisia. A portal or wormhole type of event doesn't necessarily have to take you to another dimension. It would be entirely up to the writers to take us where they want to go. And I'm not sure why you are referencing the Casimir Effect. I had mentioned that it, among other theories thrown out there, were the only real ones and that the Valenzetti Equation, the premise of the show, is not true. If all you can contribute is a negative charge to the conversation, then I would agree with you when you said "Kid stuff".

[imascootinspook]

This is alot of info, thanks. Also, when I read about the black/white section, a bird was mentioned...I wonder if this is related to why the writers have no comment of the episode involving Hurley's bird? ( I have no recollection of this episode, but I know its been brought up to the writers and they said they had no comment on Hurley's bird in being real/dream/smokie etc.)

[Jasonater]

Wow, I never got this much out of watching Seinfeld!

[notsolost42]

Thank you and thanks to everyone else gathering the info and sharing it. I am trying to research something else I found that may apply to Jacob's cabin. It was an Aboriginal story that involved circles made of ash and the rituals held within them. There really does seem to be so much that can or possibly may connect. It's exciting to think that maybe we can catch a break and figure out some clues! So, I firmly believe that Locke is a Shaman. The story of the ritual seems to fit him like a glove! Keep sharing everyone. Thanks again.

[Tater13]

I'll end the debate. The Philippines are the key. NOT Australia.

[beachblinkette]

Thanks, NotSoLost, I did read on Wiki several paragraphs and found a few items written there. There are many parallels to our series from the contents of the Dream Time parts I read.
Quoted in the Wiki site you posted:

(related to the island?) "an interconnectedness with all existence -that reciprocity between all that should not be lost. We are the caretakers; we
are not lost souls but part of a whole." This was in reference to the biomass and taking care of the land.

(related to Jack's illness and future downward spiral?) "Bone-pointing"-the method used to kill a person. "The person becomes progressively sicker and dies." It's a ritual carried out by a shaman that targets enemies, captures their spirit, and then burns the receptacle its captured in until it is consumed and they die. I suppose you could periodically burn it just to draw out their suffering. Has someone bone-pointed Jack? Please, no below the belt humor.Ha ha.

I am skeptical that the writers will have this Aboriginal mythology be the reason for everything. They have put so much into diverse elements that it's difficult to believe they would hang it all on these ideas. They do make a lot of sense in explaining things, though. Feels like our Ah-Hah! moments become their detours sometimes and vice versa...

[notsolost42]

Great work! I agree with your findings. I'm really not that skeptical though. I think that Aboriginal myth and legend is the, let's call it, giant umbrella that the show is predicated upon. I'm looking at it in a "big picture" sort of way. There are so many connections and it seems, the more one looks, the more one finds. Just my point of view, but I think that Jack's downward spiral is actually called "Survior Guilt". It is a real psycological effect that someone feels when they live are left alive and others have perished. It does kind of fit into his trend downward into drugs and drinking. I think bearded Jack is during this phase and that the flash forwards do not necessarily seem to be in cronological order after all.
Someone also posted above and asked about the Hurley Bird. The giant bird was seen twice, I think I read, and sounds as though it says "Hurley" when it swoops by. It was seen in the dark territory. I think that it may very well turn out to be yet another manifistation of the black smoke or of Jacob. In the ancient Aboriginal story about the Hawk and the Crow they refer to the crow as the dark and the hawk as the light. They were believed to be the very first two Aboriginal tribes in Austrailia some 80,000 years ago. So, if we have this dark and light and we are saying that the black smoke is the dark, then is Jacob the light?

[iggyjeckel]

wasn't rose going to go see some aboriganise healer in australia? I'm just thinking that if I were her or bernard I would of looked up all info on the aboriganise as I could and may if found some of this out myself. Idk I have about 5 energy drinks in me and I'm out in the sun cleaning a damn pool cover :( god its so hot

[bubbleboy]

Boro circles:
The boro circles or grounds are the sacred ceremonial grounds of the Australian Aborigines. In the eastern regions they consist of a larger and smaller circular ground connected by a path. the smaller boro ground is said to represent the Sky-World where Biame has his home. It is forbidden to non-initiates. the larger ground represents the earth and is public. the ceremonies performed there are less secret. Boro circles occur all over Australia and have different names in the different languages. In regard to these circles Bill Neidijie says. This "outside" story. Anyone can listen, Kid, no matter who, but that "inside" story you can't say. If you go in a ring-place, middle of a ring-place, you not supposed to tell im anybody - but, oh, e's nice.'

Could the two islands each be a boro circle?

[notsolost42]

Not sure if it's each island. More likely, if this idea is on track, one of the boro circles is represented by the ash around Jacob's cabin. Maybe Jacob is Biame or the Sky God. If that's true then what I said about Locke being a Shaman is also. This could all fall into place. There really are many connections to Aboriginal rituals and culture. Dreamtime really seems right! Again, Dreamtime even has it's own Rules of Behavior for Humans, like what Ben said to Charles Widmore about breaking the rules.

[bubbleboy]

Okay folks, check this one out. I have been thinking about why they say that Austrailia is the key to the show. Well, everyone keeps thinking in terms of the survivors and the plane originating from there. I began to think in a different direction. I began to think about the ancient civilization and Austrailia. Now, I was right on board thinking that the ancient civilization came from Tunisia or somewhere in the middle east with Roman or Greek influences because of the statue. Well, not anymore. It dawned on me that the oldest continuous civilization in the world are the Aborigine's. They are from Austrailia. I started to check out info about them.
All I'm going to tell you is to go to Wikipedia and search Dreamtime. It is the foundation of Aborigine's beliefs. I think it is a real tell about the show! All of the whispers, the dead people coming back, etc. Maybe even the black smoke. Please folks, check this out.

You could be on to something, Australia is the key.

[ConfidenceMan]

What is Australia the key to?

[Tater13]

Australia is not the key. They are just saying that to throw everyone off. I'm sticking with the Philippines:rolleyes:. Mabuhay!

[ortrules]

What is Australia the key to?

my heart...

Awkward...I know.

[notsolost42]

Nice Ort!
Look, to all the skeptics, if you all take the time to read the things I wrote about Austrailian Aboriginal Dreamtime and their rituals, culture, etc. you will find that there are many, many things that explain people, places and things in Lost. I know I have written a great deal but try it. I've been researching these ideas now for about a week and just keep finding more and more things that relate to the show. I can prove that Locke is a Shaman according to Aboriginal law. I can prove that Jacob is the Sky God according to Aboriginal law. There are explanations for why Ben told Widmore he broke the rules, the volcanic ash around Jacob's cabin, the smoke monster, why women die in the second trimester of pregnancy on the island, the whispers, the time difference, and much more. I really think that this is the "umbrella" or the overview of the show and it is mixed with science, science-fiction, mathamatics, etc. But it really does tie a lot of things together.

[ortrules]

I still like this theory, but here's another question for you:

This is what the pilot said to Jack and Kate in the pilot episode:
"Six hours in, our radio went out; no one could see us. We turned back to land in Fiji. By the time we hit turbulence, we were a thousand miles off course. They're looking for us in the wrong place."

So if they turn back to get to Fiji, a thousand mile radius would not reach Australia. If the Aborigines are from Australia and this island is related, why is the island so far off the coast of Australia?

[notsolost42]

I'm gonna answer that with another puzzle and you won't like it but here goes. What ever happened to the Black Rock that made the ship sail east instead of west when it left port in Austrailia with its cargo of gold is probably what happened to the plane. It was supposed to be returning to England and they both ended up on the island. It had left port in England and sailed to North Africa and then to Austrailia. There were witnesses that reported the ship sailing off on the wrong course. I read about the Black Rock in Lostpedia and was able to enlarge that page it shows from the journal to read it. I no longer think that a storm left it stranded on the island. There is something there. We'll figure it out. Besides, I don't think they were really six hours into the flight. Don't forget there is some kind of time differential too.

[ortrules]

Besides, I don't think they were really six hours into the flight. Don't forget there is some kind of time differential too.
Well, 6 hours is 6 hours any way you look at it. You can jump through time all you want but it's still been 6 hours relative to your time. Besides, the plane went from Australia and passed Fiji, so it already had a good distance away from Australia. So how come this island is not located in/near Australia? Instead, it seems to be well off the coast.

[notsolost42]

I don't agree. (for a change) When the freighter launched the rocket to Daniel on the island there was a time difference of 30+ minutes. When Sayid and Des first went back to the freighter they left and the sun was shining and when they landed and contacted the island it appeared to be two days later, or at least after dusk that day, right? There are still theories and arguments to be worked out about the time differential. Just because the pilot said six hours doesn't necessarily mean a literal six hours. We'll see. Now tell me this, why did the pilot say no one can see us? Have you gone to the Sri Lanka video and looked at the photos of the island? It is completely shrouded in cloud coverage or whatever. Can this have anything to do with why no one could see them? Did he mean it strictly in the radar perspective? I am not sure.

[ortrules]

I don't agree. (for a change) When the freighter launched the rocket to Daniel on the island there was a time difference of 30+ minutes. When Sayid and Des first went back to the freighter they left and the sun was shining and when they landed and contacted the island it appeared to be two days later, or at least after dusk that day, right? There are still theories and arguments to be worked out about the time differential. Just because the pilot said six hours doesn't necessarily mean a literal six hours. We'll see.

Again, it's all relative. If you start timing yourself now for 6 hours, 6 hours will pass regardless of whether you jump back and forth in time. The time around you has changed, but you're still accurately counting 6 hours.

With Frank, Sayid and Desmond; to them, the helicopter flight was 20 minutes. It may have seemed liked a day or so to everyone else, but to them it was 20 minutes. This was confirmed when Sayid questioned why they left in the afternoon and arrived near morning - because according to him, the flight was only 20 minutes.

Does that make sense?

[notsolost42]

Tell me truly, how much of Lost really does make sense? No, really, whoever it was on the freighter that sent the missle with the clock was surprised that it hadn't reached its destination in a timely manner. The clock in the missle was what, 30 odd minutes different? So, where was the missle for that time? The freighter knew how long it had been. If time curves, then time may pass at the same rate but the outcome will be different. A straight line from point A to point B takes 30 minutes, okay? If the line is curved between point A and point B then the time will take longer. If the plane entered some kind of weird curve of time then the 6 hours may really have been 6 hours but they would not be in the same place as if the time was not altered and curved? Do I make any sense? I understand what I'm saying but I'm not sure if I'm expressing it clearly! Hawking is so eloquent about this and I am not. I'm so sorry. You do know he said that Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, don't you?

[ortrules]

I could continue to argue this, but the fact still remains that they are NOT in Australia, but instead are well off the coast. Going back to my original question, how can Aborigines relate to the island when they are from Australia and the island is clearly not in Australia?

[lebowski]

I haven't read all of these posts - but I went on the crystalinks.com/dreamtime site and read the following:
"The Australian aboriginal shamans - "clever men" or "men of high degree" -- described "celestial ascents" to meet with the "sky gods" such as Baiame, Biral, Goin and Bundjil. Many of the accounts of ritualistic initiation bare striking parallels to modern day UFO contactee and abduction lore. The aboriginal shamanic "experience of death and rising again" in the initiation of tribal "men of high degree" finds some fascinating parallels with modern day UFO abduction lore. The "chosen one" (either voluntarily or spontaneously) is set upon by "spirits", ritualistically "killed", and then experiences a wondrous journey (generally an aerial ascent to a strange realm) to met the "sky god." He is restored to life - a new life as the tribal shaman."

That is spot on with Locke communicating with Jacob and Ben shooting Locke only to resurrect and be restored to life.

[notsolost42]

The Aborigine's settled more than just the Austrailian continent. Read below:

"In addition to the long list of factors presented above, combined with unique factors used by various other disciplines of social and anthropological study, there are also the chronicled historiesof groups of (Aboriginal) people living together. These histories may take the form of rock paintings, cave paintings, wall murals on inner walls of the pyramids of Egypt, picture stories woven into fabrics and basketry with fibers, quills and beads; knots tied into length of fibers, tattoo and scarification patterns, written words, maps, diagrams, and drawings of constellations."

Link is: http://hubpages.com/hub/Aboriginals-New-Guinea

There is more info about Aboriginal movement across the globe 10's of thousands of years ago. Please go check it out. Scroll all the way down and look at the global charts.

"The Nations of Oceana
In addition to Australia and New Zealand, Oceana is a continent that contains at least 37 other countries. This continent encompasses many of the islands in and around Australia and in the South Pacific. Although the name Oceana is no longer widely used as a continent's name, it is sometimes still seen."

By the way, Fiji was also settled by Aboriginal tribes. So, there you go. Read it!

[notsolost42]

Lebowski...that's exactly what I posted but I said the crash "killed" Locke and he was resurrected again when he stood up and walked!!!! See, I'm not kidding around. This stuff is making lot's of sense! Thanks for reading it too. There's a lot more and I posted other interesting sites to read. There are Aboriginal spoken tales about things that could be the smoke monster, why the women die in the second trimester of pregnancy, etc. I need to start making a real list of this info. There is beginning to be a great deal!

[ortrules]

notsolost, correct me if I'm wrong, but Aboriginal is a generic term to describe the original inhabitants of an area - therefore, aborigines from Australia differ from those in other parts of the world. They may all have similarities, but that makes them similar in the same way Catholics and Baptists are both Christian. They share the same main belief in God but the two religions are very different from each other.

[notsolost42]

From what I read they did genetic testing to make their determinations. They found genetic markers that were the same. That's how they have charted the movement of Austrailian Aboriginal peoples. The term Aborigine is not religious or cultural in nature but rather refers to being indiginous. The Austrailian Aboriginal tribes have their own culture which is what I have been describing. Did you look at the link I posted? It shows how the Austrailian Aboriginal people moved through the region, through Fiji, the Philipines, etc. But you are correct to say that it is a "generic" term. Even Charles Darwin used it.

[notsolost42]

Thank you to everyone asking about my thread. It is relevant so I brought it back into the forefront for folks to read.

[Scrawn]

The way i see it is the island is the aborigines "Holy Land", this is their dreamstate, the centre of their universe of god, creation and all that lark where time is omnipresent. In Christian mythology it may be deemed as the ark, a safe haven or such. In a time of gods this would have been the epicentre, where lore evolved. In current day it a place where the rich and powerful vie to study, to control.... but it itself is more powerful than they could imagine and their destinies are inevitably controlled by higher forces.

The writers using multiple mythologies to create their own sci-fi is totally plausable. The fact that it is NOT in Australia makes no difference, there are certainly links to Australia.

Another thing with "lists" that fascinated me was that the children were on there. Their young minds "open" and suseptable would probably be able to comprehend the whole time issue. The same with Hurley being a little crazy and open minded (not that he wholly wants to be). Older characters with set restrictions in their way of life would not be able to "believe" therefore not comprehend or understand.

[notsolost42]

Yes, I agree. I think that the Austrailian Aboriginal Dreamtime and other related folk tales are an overview of what the writers are doing. You can pinpoint exact matches to things, ie Locke being the chosen one. I've already gone through it so I won't repeat myself. This "umbrella" if you will, is the bones of the show. It has so many references to Greek Mythology, science fiction, mathamatics, science fact, etc. It is absolutely brilliant! It is specific but yet general enough so that people can read it many ways, finding biblical references, etc. Sheer genious!

[kdog]

Thanks for your well thought out and informative theory!

Important clues can be found in anagrams from time to time like

Ethan Rom = Other Man
Mittleos = Lost Time
Hoffs/Drawlar = Flashforward

I put Dharma Namaste in the generator and got Shaman Dream At
as well as Seamen Target Ham

[notsolost42]

You're welcome. They do keep throwing things in like that all the time too. Also all of the references to so many books. I think that those are the red herrings. I don't know if they really have any meaning to the plot. Just busy work from the writers to get us going, you know. I hope people keep reading about the Dreamtime theory for the overall plot. The writers really do seem to follow alot of the stories and meanings in it.

[krakup]

if australia is the key, i'm betting it has something to do with Issac of Uluru, the guy who tried to heal rose. Hurley said it in regard to the game of risk they were playing,maybe thats all it meant? interesting reading again bout the boro circles etc, i'd forgotten a lot of that stuff i'd learnt at school. when u think about the oceanic logo could be representing boro circles.

[bubbleboy]

Yes, I agree. I think that the Austrailian Aboriginal Dreamtime and other related folk tales are an overview of what the writers are doing. You can pinpoint exact matches to things, ie Locke being the chosen one. I've already gone through it so I won't repeat myself. This "umbrella" if you will, is the bones of the show. It has so many references to Greek Mythology, science fiction, mathamatics, science fact, etc. It is absolutely brilliant! It is specific but yet general enough so that people can read it many ways, finding biblical references, etc. Sheer genious!
I agree that the writers are drawing on all sorts of things. The things that have survived thousands of years are what we care about which helps guarantee an audience. I've read the posts about Dreamtime with interest and after the last episode, it seems to have been brought to the forefront with Abbaddon extolling the virtues of the Aboriginal guided walkabout in Dreamtime.

[lost_in_iowa]

This is alot of info, thanks. Also, when I read about the black/white section, a bird was mentioned...I wonder if this is related to why the writers have no comment of the episode involving Hurley's bird? ( I have no recollection of this episode, but I know its been brought up to the writers and they said they had no comment on Hurley's bird in being real/dream/smokie etc.)

This reminds me of the bird which dies as a result of Walt in one of the flashbacks. Walts powers or something....it scared his stepdad. HMM

[Kilaria]

just to throw a small wrench out. but i very much agree with the mythology of the aborigoies that you all have pulled up and i love the concept the writers are going with that (much better then the spiritual undertones of babylon 5)

but when Hurley said australia is the key i think in that single statement it was ment to just refer to the healing energy field that Rose went to visit and her knowledge of what she learned there in Australia. grrr i am getting ready to confuse myself. but the healing priciple of the island are the same principles of the spot on australlia. how/what they heal is different but the formula is the same. Roses knowledge of Australia is the key.

or maybe that raw untapped power and seeing how Australia becomeing moderized is the key and the island does not want that happening to itself.

i think i need to go to bed

[notsolost42]

Kilaria, I think that Rose's going to the Shaman was yet another clue the writers were leaving for us to follow to get to what I said. It's not just Hurley's exclaimation that Austrailia is the key (although that was a dead giveaway) but many, many links to it. Everything began in Austrailia. Everyone has a link to it. Locke's planned walkabout, etc. That was were it all began in Lost and in Aboriginal Dreamtime and Dreaming. The writers have been showing us the centerpoint since the very beginning. It took Hurley to just lay it out there plain and simple!

[notsolost42]

Well gang, I found another interesting possible Aussie connection to the show. It's a little strange, I admit, but I would like some input. There is a website:

http://victorian.fortunecity.com/palette/187/index.html

It is called the Temple of the Sacred Spiral. Take a look at their logo. It's the one on the right side of the page. Then compare it to the Dharma logo for the unknown station or perhaps the temple where Ben sent the Others. To me, they are very similar. Not exact, but very, errily close. You can go to Lostpedia for a real good picture of the logo as it was on Ben's Haliwax jacket and the protocol that Keamy takes from the safe. This Temple of the Sacred Spiral is a strange combination of Austrailian folklore and wikken or something. Let me know what you all think. Thanks.

[Robbie86]

I think you might be on to something big here. Just one question? Let's say Locke is reincarnated. Does that mean Christian might as well be alive? His body was on the plane when it crashed and his coffin was empty..

[notsolost42]

I'm not saying Locke is reincarnated in the sense you may be thinking. I mean it figuratively. He has been chosen since birth or before and he "died" in the plane crash and was reborn when he was able to walk again. I think because the Aboriginal belief of the past, present and future all coexisting at the same time is why we see some of the dead walking and the whispers talk.

[Brother Desmond]

I started re watching Season 1 of Heroes recently, and one of the characters made a comment that would translate here.

Anyone not familiar with Heroes, it is a show about ordinary who begin to discover they have special abilities. One of the characters, Hiro Nakamura, is able to manipulate the time/space continuum. While explaining his powers to his friend (who doesn't have powers), he references the Australian Aboriginals as also being able to manipulate time and space.

Just thought that was something interesting that coincides with our discussion here.

[Eko]

Boro circles:
The boro circles or grounds are the sacred ceremonial grounds of the Australian Aborigines. In the eastern regions they consist of a larger and smaller circular ground connected by a path. the smaller boro ground is said to represent the Sky-World where Biame has his home. It is forbidden to non-initiates. the larger ground represents the earth and is public. the ceremonies performed there are less secret. Boro circles occur all over Australia and have different names in the different languages. In regard to these circles Bill Neidijie says. This "outside" story. Anyone can listen, Kid, no matter who, but that "inside" story you can't say. If you go in a ring-place, middle of a ring-place, you not supposed to tell im anybody - but, oh, e's nice.'[/QUOTE]

this reply has nothing to do with lost so dont get annoyed but my local football team is middlesbrough football club whose nickname is the boro your probably not interested but nobody else who i know likes the show so i thought id tell you all instead.

[mamameko]

I was watching the episode tonight where Hurley said Australia was the key to the whole thing. It caught my attention whereas I missed it the first time around. I've read most of the posts in this thread. What has been said makes a lot of sense. Is any of this still plausible as a theory in the show or has it all been debunked? Anyone have any new thoughts about Australia being the key?

[krakup]

I was watching the episode tonight where Hurley said Australia was the key to the whole thing. It caught my attention whereas I missed it the first time around. I've read most of the posts in this thread. What has been said makes a lot of sense. Is any of this still plausible as a theory in the show or has it all been debunked? Anyone have any new thoughts about Australia being the key?

i don't know that the reference hurley made to australia is anything more than referring to the game they were playing.
if australia was integral maybe something to do with Issac of Uluru .
i would love to see some Aboriginal mythology in the show

[notsolost42]

Wow, an oldie but a goodie revised! Krak, I agree that a little aboriginal mythology would be very cool to the show. We did have Mrs. Hawking wearing her oroborus pin and Issac of Uluru who said that they were on one of the special places that we came to find were like the Lamp Post and the island with their EM. That was a beautiful picture of Ayers Rock in the background, too.
As far as Aboriginal mythology, I think we are on track with the Roman, Greek and Egyptian mythology and it would be way too confusing to add more. It was a real nice touch to throw that in though. I guess it was a red herring for us to chew on and I fell for it, hook, line and sinker, as they say. The Aboriginal myth and dreamtime does still fit the show quite well but I don't think it is directly related anymore. But, you never know.
Krak, I had a ball learning so much about Aboriginal culture, myth and history when I researched all the info. Very, very cool stuff.

[losttime]

Wow, an oldie but a goodie revised! Krak, I agree that a little aboriginal mythology would be very cool to the show. We did have Mrs. Hawking wearing her oroborus pin and Issac of Uluru who said that they were on one of the special places that we came to find were like the Lamp Post and the island with their EM. That was a beautiful picture of Ayers Rock in the background, too.
As far as Aboriginal mythology, I think we are on track with the Roman, Greek and Egyptian mythology and it would be way too confusing to add more. It was a real nice touch to throw that in though. I guess it was a red herring for us to chew on and I fell for it, hook, line and sinker, as they say. The Aboriginal myth and dreamtime does still fit the show quite well but I don't think it is directly related anymore. But, you never know.
Krak, I had a ball learning so much about Aboriginal culture, myth and history when I researched all the info. Very, very cool stuff.

Just to add, I been to Uluru and walked it. The aboriginies have designated areas as very sacred and it is unlawful to take pictures of certain things. Being the respectable American(clears throat proudly) I respected their wishes. Plus if you got caught with pictures you would get a fine and can actually go to jail, at least I rememeber the signs saying jail time, but definitely a fee involved. So they do view ground as sacred and maybe Uluru also is another place that is invovllved with the story. Maybe NAMs cosmic bullet theory was the case but the ground was too strong here so the cosmic bullet got wedged and couldnt be vacuumed back to the oter side. HMmmmm I think the Goddess has thus found thee. What does ye thinketh. LOL
Anyway back to real conversation, Hurley's statement about Australia being key I think might be a distractor now(hmm not to self, another distractor thred LOL JK Free Willers). If anything I would think Jacob saying "they are coming" is the key to the game. This statement by jacob effected iLocke. For someone who is supposedly Nemesis, and was able to find a loophole and was not afraid of anything Ben can do to him anymore(thanks to Alex/Smokey) he certainly didnt like that statement by Jacob.

[chester]

i don't know that the reference hurley made to australia is anything more than referring to the game they were playing.
if australia was integral maybe something to do with Issac of Uluru .
i would love to see some Aboriginal mythology in the show

Hmmm, yes I agree. Dreamtime is VERY interesting, and some nice connections with LOST too. Could very well be 'the key'.

From the wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamtime

"Dreamtime: Aboriginals believe in two forms of time; two parallel streams of activity. One is the daily objective activity, the other is an infinite spiritual cycle called the "dreamtime", more real than reality itself. Whatever happens in the dreamtime establishes the values, symbols, and laws of Aboriginal society. It was believed that some people of unusual spiritual powers had contact with the dreamtime."

[3d-aholic]

It does agree with what I think as well....at least 50%.

[notsolost42]

Hmmm, yes I agree. Dreamtime is VERY interesting, and some nice connections with LOST too. Could very well be 'the key'.

From the wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamtime

"Dreamtime: Aboriginals believe in two forms of time; two parallel streams of activity. One is the daily objective activity, the other is an infinite spiritual cycle called the "dreamtime", more real than reality itself. Whatever happens in the dreamtime establishes the values, symbols, and laws of Aboriginal society. It was believed that some people of unusual spiritual powers had contact with the dreamtime."

I thought that Aboriginal Dreamtime was where the past, present and future converge. All occupying the same spacetime plane, so to speak, simultaneously. That would certainly make sense on LOST, as I have said. Didn't it seem that John Locke was experiencing his past, present and future all at the same time on the beach? He was dead in the future since he died in January 2008 and the Ajira flight landed in 2007, deadLocke in the present of 2007, and the John Locke at the beechcraft was his past sometime around 2004-05. I always found that scene very interesting and thought it was a big "tell" just as the compass was about a timeloop. Aboriginal Dreamtime has so many amazing stories and myths that can fit into our story of LOST.

[krakup]

these guys are so cool to share this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtyRk16VD90&NR=1

[notsolost42]

these guys are so cool to share this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtyRk16VD90&NR=1

Very cool Krak! I love the didgeridoo!

[losttime]

these guys are so cool to share this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtyRk16VD90&NR=1

Yea Krak, I own 6 didgeridoos and have become quite proficient at circular breathing. But if you want to see an incredible didgeridoo performer check this guy out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g592I-p-dc

In this next clip the guy on the left is the one with the white paint on in previous clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnwKpQeza3A

[krakup]

Very cool Krak! I love the didgeridoo!
yes and i like the singing too,of course there are singers and there are singers. he was good, just warming up though.
Yea Krak, I own 6 didgeridoos and have become quite proficient at circular breathing. But if you want to see an incredible didgeridoo performer check this guy out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g592I-p-dc

In this next clip the guy on the left is the one with the white paint on in previous clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnwKpQeza3A

that is good and you know how hard it is to do. didge rocks

[Unbridled Pageantry]

I should have known I'd find you over here spreading your Aussie propaganda krak.
:)Just kidding, the war is over.

Very cool, I've been repeating the the Didgeridoo Duet in the back round for about a half hour now.

[losttime]

I should have known I'd find you over here spreading your Aussie propaganda krak.
:)Just kidding, the war is over.

Very cool, I've been repeating the the Didgeridoo Duet in the back round for about a half hour now.

Pretty cool UP huh? I wish I can play half as well. I also loved jeremy Donovan's solo, the one I linked as well. So awesome and great sound. Its believed that the Didjeridoo has healing properties when played. Also been shown to reduce sleep apnea for the player from what I read

[LissaMarie]

I have a didjeridu too but I have never been able to play it right. Do all Aussies know how to play it? Is there a Didjeridu for Dummies? What's the secret?

[losttime]

I have a didjeridu too but I have never been able to play it right. Do all Aussies know how to play it? Is there a Didjeridu for Dummies? What's the secret?

Lisa not everyone that is Australian plays the didj. At least a few I know dont. The best way I can tell you to learn to play is watch on youtube on didj lessons. I learned to play by just practicing wha tthey taught me. And I learned the harder I blew into the didj the less successful I was at creating the drone. That isnt the secret to creating the drone. Than again I am not an expert but just know what helped me learn to create sound and circular breathe. maybe Krak can provide better info.

[LissaMarie]

Thanks, LT! Great idea! :D

[Lost Down Under]

Just to add, I been to Uluru and walked it. The aboriginies have designated areas as very sacred and it is unlawful to take pictures of certain things. Being the respectable American(clears throat proudly) I respected their wishes.

Did you walk up Uluru or just around it?

[Unbridled Pageantry]

Are any of you Australians familiar with thetasmaniac.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-t-7sCo-hQ&feature=channel

He doesn't have many video's up but this video's in a bar in Ireland. One of his other videos is him in Berlin, so he's a world traveller.
Anybody ever happen to come across him Downunder playing in a bar ????

[losttime]

Did you walk up Uluru or just around it?

I only was able to walk around it because it was very windy so the climb was off limits. Walking around it is incredible though. Longer than we had figured. Took a good 2.5 hrs. But we did stop and take some pictures. I am looking for the DVD I saved it on because my hard drive got fired and lost all my pictures from the trip. I have one of me holding a Koala, hand feeding a kangaroo, being in a hot air balloon, lots of great pictures

[Nip McSizzle]

Has anyone read the book "Otherland" by Tad Williams??? I have been reading up on Dreamtime and they referrenced this book. Apparently the story takes place around the year 2070 and is about how life has changed with the advancement of technology. People are able to connect themselves to the internet and live an "online" life, or virtual reality.
Anyway, it sounds like it could possibly relate to the show. If you have read it, what do you think?? If you haven't read it, Google or Wiki it and tell me what you think.
Sounds pretty cool.....

One of my favs in my collection!!

[krakup]

Are any of you Australians familiar with thetasmaniac.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-t-7sCo-hQ&feature=channel

He doesn't have many video's up but this video's in a bar in Ireland. One of his other videos is him in Berlin, so he's a world traveller.
Anybody ever happen to come across him Downunder playing in a bar ????

hey there is only 21 million people down here UP but we don't all know each other. i cant find it but i remember an old song down here,sung to the tune of "lets go to the hop" but instead of lets go to the hop it was lets go smoke some pot. like ...."u can grow it u can roll it u can really get to know it, smoking pot" etc....... meanwhile, try this

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16po2_bob-marley-redemtion-song_music

[Lost Down Under]

I only was able to walk around it because it was very windy so the climb was off limits. Walking around it is incredible though. Longer than we had figured. Took a good 2.5 hrs. But we did stop and take some pictures. I am looking for the DVD I saved it on because my hard drive got fired and lost all my pictures from the trip. I have one of me holding a Koala, hand feeding a kangaroo, being in a hot air balloon, lots of great pictures

Glad to hear that you only walked around it as walking up is seriously frowed upon by the traditional owners. I have also walked around it and thought it was amazing. I never realised it was so big.

[Lost Down Under]

hey there is only 21 million people down here UP but we don't all know each other. i cant find it but i remember an old song down here,sung to the tune of "lets go to the hop" but instead of lets go to the hop it was lets go smoke some pot. like ...."u can grow it u can roll it u can really get to know it, smoking pot" etc....... meanwhile, try this

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16po2_bob-marley-redemtion-song_music

I loved it when I was living in England and so many people asked me if I knew "so and so" who lived in Canada.

[Unbridled Pageantry]

I loved it when I was living in England and so many people asked me if I knew "so and so" who lived in Canada.

You've made mention of your Canadian/Australian roots DownUnder. Now I'm curious.
What exactly led you to be Canaustraladian???
You may be a more integral part of the healing process than both Simon and Garfunkel combined.

[Lost Down Under]

What exactly led you to be Canaustraladian???


:eek: Canaustraladian?! I can't even imagine how one would pronounce that!

What led me to it? Like hot weather - hate cold weather. Like sand - hate snow. Don't like America* (sorry American's on here...I lived in Canada for 20 years) - still don't like America (sorry American's...I lived in Canada for 20 years....we were taught it in school! :) )

*obviously I am kidding....most American's I know are very nice*

[Simon Says]

I read half this thread and skimmed the rest. I think it does explain a lot and it makes sense in many ways. If this was in fact the umbrella to the show the last 16 episodes has a lot to cover. I'm sure every episode will be loaded with info to be able explain all the mythical questions/clues surrounding the Island through out the series, to a "dumb" audience. What ever the "myth" is they have shown pieces of it but haven't explained a bit of it yet.

The MIW/MIB conversation at the statue was the "meat and potatoes" of what is really going on. It's like the whole island is a chess board with people getting "played" by these two guys to prove who is right about whatever it is they are arguing about.

PS> If this theory has some potency I'm sure they will either be showing a lot of Australia this season or introduce a new character to the island, some kind of "myth expert" that will "fill us in" on the details of the "big picture".

[Dead but Here]

:eek: Canaustraladian?! I can't even imagine how one would pronounce that!

What led me to it? Like hot weather - hate cold weather. Like sand - hate snow. Don't like America* (sorry American's on here...I lived in Canada for 20 years) - still don't like America (sorry American's...I lived in Canada for 20 years....we were taught it in school! :) )

*obviously I am kidding....most American's I know are very nice*

You know what we're taught in school? EVERYONE in the whole world wants to be American. We rock. \m/