Daniels book

[LostFreak21]

The Orchid page in his book-
It says space like factors
Picture of a ant like thing

[LostFreak21]

what if Faraday wrote space like factors because he has been in or on this space like factor? Obviosly he has been on this Island before to know and write so much about it.

[Kilaria]

what if Faraday wrote space like factors because he has been in or on this space like factor? Obviosly he has been on this Island before to know and write so much about it.

or perhaps a stolen fomula of his? it seems his physics theorys (time travel) are a bit on the money. sort of a modern tech prophet.

[Harpie]

It also says time like factors. He very obviously knows what the Orchid is for and what's about to happen. But how does he know? And why isn't he telling anyone anything?

[Kilaria]

i believe when he thinks he goes into his head and forgets people are around to share info with, hence the few scattered answers he gives. he is in deep thought and gets starttled when a question breaks that train. with that said i noone intrupts him he keeps on his thought until he has his final answer and until he has that answer it doesn't dawn on him to share because it is an unfirnished product to him.

[boutte]

Daniel is like everybody else on the Island. He's about as communicative as a tree.
He does however seem to know exactly whats going on.

[agmic]

and faraday knows that the orchid mean something bad...

[XmasDVD]

Daniel's Book

(small image)
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season4/4x05/normal_constant425.jpg

Click for large image:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=110152&fullsize=1

[zebu97]

The Orchid page in his book-
It says space like factors
Picture of a ant like thing


My problem with Faraday's book in this specific instance is the location of the information pertaining to "Orchid". Typically don't we fill in a book front to back in order? Seems logical, no? If so, that information in Faraday's book was well in the middle. Now unless he was writing like a maniac on the boat filling that book up, that would imply that he knew LONG BEFORE about "Orchid". Also, Faraday doesn't strike me as someone who would be "in the loop" about secondary protocols.

My guess is that Faraday has been to the island before in a different time (like how Desmond was traveling back and forth in time earlier in the season) and wrote down what he remembered or experienced in regards to "Orchid" in his little journal.

I'm telling you, this island thing is all about "TIME"!!!!

[Kilaria]

My problem with Faraday's book in this specific instance is the location of the information pertaining to "Orchid". Typically don't we fill in a book front to back in order? Seems logical, no? If so, that information in Faraday's book was well in the middle. Now unless he was writing like a maniac on the boat filling that book up, that would imply that he knew LONG BEFORE about "Orchid". Also, Faraday doesn't strike me as someone who would be "in the loop" about secondary protocols.

My guess is that Faraday has been to the island before in a different time (like how Desmond was traveling back and forth in time earlier in the season) and wrote down what he remembered or experienced in regards to "Orchid" in his little journal.

I'm telling you, this island thing is all about "TIME"!!!!

It could have been ideas he has been working on for years and he sold them or witmore stole them or darma obtained them and utilized the formulas for orchid. befor daniel knew of the island

[zebu97]

It could have been ideas he has been working on for years and he sold them or witmore stole them or darma obtained them and utilized the formulas for orchid. befor daniel knew of the island

A valid point but let me ask you this - why would an academic "nerd" (or geek if you prefer) work on an idea for blowing up an island - or anything for that matter? Can you really get published and reach tenure with such an idea??? I know the guys who developed the A-bomb were working specifically on a device with huge explosive capability and Faraday's work seemed to be in the arena of "time". BTW, I am not picking on you or anything - I am just a wise a$$ most of the time.

Besides, I think that book contains his notes for the "time travel" stuff. Remember the lab work he was doing with the mouse and Desmond???? Also, I think Faraday had exposed himself to numerous doses of the lamp and is now subject to time traveling. Remember when he put the vest on and Desmond asked what it was for? Faraday responded that it was to "protect" him from the effects of the "ray". Desmond then asked if he needed one and Faraday said no, he was already exposed. Then Desmond asked, "what about your head?" And Faraday looked at him like - crap!!!!

I just thought the location of the reference to "Orchid" being in the middle of the book seemed "odd" to me if it only became known while he was on the boat - unless of the rest of the stuff in the book he wrote while being on the boat.

[Panda]

I think that the notebook of Faraday is an old one that he took with him for this mission. I don't think that he wrote the content on his boat. Like someone said, he wrote all this stuff in his laboratory.
Like someone already mentioned....first he was making tests on the mouse.
He saw that if he gives the mouse a certain level of radiation, that the mouse would mentally travel to the future. Once the mouse is back " in the lab time"....she seems knows exactly the solution of the labyrinth. So the mouse came back in "lab time" mentally but kept the knowledge of the future. But as the mouse doesn't have "a constance" the mouse dies.
So Faraday, would like to travel into time mentally himself. But he knows that he won't survive if he doesn't know who or what his constant is.

So I guess that Faraday wants to know first who his constant is.
So the first time he "radiates himself" to travel forward into time mentally, he just does this to find out who is constant is.
So when he radiates himself...he arrives mentally on the Island....but his constant would not be on the island mentally....if his constant wouldn't travel together with him mentally.
That explains why Desmond has his "visions" of the future when he is still in the army. Actually it is because Faraday travelling mentally into the future....that he drags his "constant" with him. As we see Desmond flickering back and from, it means that Faraday readiates himself several times....just till he gets to talk with Desmond on the Island.....all mentally of course at those days.

After the last radiation, Desmond walks into his laboratory, so he actually sees his constant in laboratory time....and that is the reason why Faraday doesn't die after radiating himself several times.
Now he knows who his constant is, he knows what his constant is....he knows that he can explore the future mentally without the risk of Dying...he only has to find back Desmond each time when he returns from the future. Not necessary talk real to him, just knowing where he is, is sufficient.
So that must be the reason, why Faraday knows that much about the Island and also about the orchid.

But if he really knows what the orchid is and can do, he must have experienced it in his mental time travel by radiation. As he was not with is body out there, it explains why he didn't really die....went back to the "lab time" and wrote everything down....and maybe searched for a solution to avoid that when the future is really there for his mind and body. So body and mind are on the Island.

It means that people on the Island can be there in different forms.

They can be there mental, physical and both.
So I think that not everybody on the Island is physical present.
I even think that most of "the others" aren't. On the Island people that are physical present can be mentally present as well...and if they are both at the same time.....they will see and hear and experience those who are only mentally present as if everyone they see is really there.
Someone already wrote it down here somewhere.
But the time travel is actually never a physical thing. Only on th Island you can experience more of what is called mental time travel, than "off island" due to the magnetic field on the Island.

But once exposed to high level of radiation or magnetism....once off island, you may still suffer from those weird experiences...like hurley, jack keep on seeing dead people.

Anyway just some loud out thinking.

[imascootinspook]

This is just a thought after I have listened to a couple of the writers podcasts when it came to mind traveling ( what they called it ) last night. And IMO they were trying to get us to think about mind traveling to the future and not so much as traveling backwards. And that we have got to determine what is actually the past, the present, and the future.
This just got me thinking, when we think they are going backwards, are they really back there, going forward? Was Faraday the inventor of the thing in the Orchid? ( trying not to spoil). I don't know maybe this show is warping my mind.

[dezinio]

Has anyone got a screen cap off the pages danile looks at regarding the orchid?

[Kilaria]

A valid point but let me ask you this - why would an academic "nerd" (or geek if you prefer) work on an idea for blowing up an island - or anything for that matter? Can you really get published and reach tenure with such an idea??? I know the guys who developed the A-bomb were working specifically on a device with huge explosive capability and Faraday's work seemed to be in the arena of "time". BTW, I am not picking on you or anything - I am just a wise a$$ most of the time.

Besides, I think that book contains his notes for the "time travel" stuff. Remember the lab work he was doing with the mouse and Desmond???? Also, I think Faraday had exposed himself to numerous doses of the lamp and is now subject to time traveling. Remember when he put the vest on and Desmond asked what it was for? Faraday responded that it was to "protect" him from the effects of the "ray". Desmond then asked if he needed one and Faraday said no, he was already exposed. Then Desmond asked, "what about your head?" And Faraday looked at him like - crap!!!!

I just thought the location of the reference to "Orchid" being in the middle of the book seemed "odd" to me if it only became known while he was on the boat - unless of the rest of the stuff in the book he wrote while being on the boat.

no worries. i liked your thinking my thought out it helps me. and if he is working with radiation that can be manipulated to explode though i do not think that is completly the case or Keeny would not have taken such fire power to explode the island. so orchid could have the mind travel thing with the radiation but on a big enough scale it could some how permanantly time travel the island. (move it). and again his project in the lab he could have named orchid, or when who ever obtained Daniels notes to take back to the island could have told Dan that they were calling it orchid. thus in the past he could have put it in his note.
now knowing about the radiation and the violence that surrounds Kenny he put 2 and 2 together and knew Kenny could blow the island due to the material in the station.

[bubbleboy]

now knowing about the radiation and the violence that surrounds Kenny he put 2 and 2 together and knew Kenny could blow the island due to the material in the station.

I thought they were always saying "torch" the island not blow it up. How does one vote to torch the island? I vote that they try to set off the volcano.

[thelawgiver]

Exclusive, more pages from Daniel's notebook:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55541152@N00/sets/1134452/

[Chicagoish]

Exclusive, more pages from Daniel's notebook:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55541152@N00/sets/1134452/


Hey....Doh! :D

[XmasDVD]

Has anyone got a screen cap off the pages danile looks at regarding the orchid?

...yes, look here:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=110152&fullsize=1

[lost_in_iowa]

I think that the notebook of Faraday is an old one that he took with him for this mission. I don't think that he wrote the content on his boat. Like someone said, he wrote all this stuff in his laboratory.
Like someone already mentioned....first he was making tests on the mouse.
He saw that if he gives the mouse a certain level of radiation, that the mouse would mentally travel to the future. Once the mouse is back " in the lab time"....she seems knows exactly the solution of the labyrinth. So the mouse came back in "lab time" mentally but kept the knowledge of the future. But as the mouse doesn't have "a constance" the mouse dies.
So Faraday, would like to travel into time mentally himself. But he knows that he won't survive if he doesn't know who or what his constant is.

So I guess that Faraday wants to know first who his constant is.
So the first time he "radiates himself" to travel forward into time mentally, he just does this to find out who is constant is.
So when he radiates himself...he arrives mentally on the Island....but his constant would not be on the island mentally....if his constant wouldn't travel together with him mentally.
That explains why Desmond has his "visions" of the future when he is still in the army. Actually it is because Faraday travelling mentally into the future....that he drags his "constant" with him. As we see Desmond flickering back and from, it means that Faraday readiates himself several times....just till he gets to talk with Desmond on the Island.....all mentally of course at those days.

After the last radiation, Desmond walks into his laboratory, so he actually sees his constant in laboratory time....and that is the reason why Faraday doesn't die after radiating himself several times.
Now he knows who his constant is, he knows what his constant is....he knows that he can explore the future mentally without the risk of Dying...he only has to find back Desmond each time when he returns from the future. Not necessary talk real to him, just knowing where he is, is sufficient.
So that must be the reason, why Faraday knows that much about the Island and also about the orchid.

But if he really knows what the orchid is and can do, he must have experienced it in his mental time travel by radiation. As he was not with is body out there, it explains why he didn't really die....went back to the "lab time" and wrote everything down....and maybe searched for a solution to avoid that when the future is really there for his mind and body. So body and mind are on the Island.

It means that people on the Island can be there in different forms.

They can be there mental, physical and both.
So I think that not everybody on the Island is physical present.
I even think that most of "the others" aren't. On the Island people that are physical present can be mentally present as well...and if they are both at the same time.....they will see and hear and experience those who are only mentally present as if everyone they see is really there.
Someone already wrote it down here somewhere.
But the time travel is actually never a physical thing. Only on th Island you can experience more of what is called mental time travel, than "off island" due to the magnetic field on the Island.

But once exposed to high level of radiation or magnetism....once off island, you may still suffer from those weird experiences...like hurley, jack keep on seeing dead people.

Anyway just some loud out thinking.

Panda, I think you are a writer of the show! You've really cleared up some of the questions:) The travel stuff is now figured out and it explains some of the other anomalies.......YOU ARE BRILLIANT!

[notsolost42]

I'm sorry but it doesn't make that much sense to me. I don't think anyone is dragging their constant around with them. Time travel was not a result of radiation but the radiation was a result of the time travel. Just to name a few.

[boutte]

Imaginary space? WTH is that?

[Panda]

I'm sorry but it doesn't make that much sense to me. I don't think anyone is dragging their constant around with them. Time travel was not a result of radiation but the radiation was a result of the time travel. Just to name a few.

You are probably right, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
But what radiation and time travel concerns....I thought Faraday radiated his mouse to make the mouse travel into time mentally. I didn't have the impression that the mouse made a time travel all by itself and when returning caused radiation in the lab of Faraday. But yes maybe I misunderstood what he was doing in his lab with that mouse.

[Panda]

Panda, I think you are a writer of the show! You've really cleared up some of the questions:) The travel stuff is now figured out and it explains some of the other anomalies.......YOU ARE BRILLIANT!

No I am far from brilliant. Like someone sayst, it makes no sense that one drags his constant every time with him as he travels.

[Panda]

This is just a thought after I have listened to a couple of the writers podcasts when it came to mind traveling ( what they called it ) last night. And IMO they were trying to get us to think about mind traveling to the future and not so much as traveling backwards. And that we have got to determine what is actually the past, the present, and the future.
This just got me thinking, when we think they are going backwards, are they really back there, going forward? Was Faraday the inventor of the thing in the Orchid? ( trying not to spoil). I don't know maybe this show is warping my mind.

Your vision is interesting as well.

Maybe Daniel Faraday invented the Orchid. After years of research in his lab what mind travels concern, he constructed the Orchid himself.
Maybe the Orchid is not on the Island after all, but in a lab somewhere. And maybe they are all part of a scientific research thing. Maybe those people gave themselves up as volunteers to experiments with mind traveling.
Maybe not all of them are volunteers. Maybe those who were ever in a mental hospital...are not volunteering but pushed into the project "as a treatment"?

Oh the writers are brilliant that is for sure. We can go so many ways and directions, the way they built op their series.

And you know....I like all the discussions, views, ideas that people develop even more than watching the show itself, as it hardly reveals something.

Lost is the first series that make people actually think about all kind of matters.
Most series are more like "emo TV" the only thing to talk about are the relationships between people. But here there is far more. That is what I like so much about lost.
The only thing that is not so great....is that people generally don't do such a big effort in their real lives, towards all the facts in the news etc...that aren't complete enough to be sure if the one that is pointed as the bad guy, really is the bad guy.
Anyway I really like lost.

[XmasDVD]

You are probably right, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
But what radiation and time travel concerns....I thought Faraday radiated his mouse to make the mouse travel into time mentally. I didn't have the impression that the mouse made a time travel all by itself and when returning caused radiation in the lab of Faraday. But yes maybe I misunderstood what he was doing in his lab with that mouse.


...I think the mouse learning the maze was like Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day" learning the piano - you keep repeating (back in time over and over) until you've mastered it - it looks to the observer of the mouse that he was under the 'light beam' for a few seconds when actually he was reliving the maze over and over many times until he mastered it.

Sounds like this would explain how Ben knew so much about the losties - he had them pre-screened and was studying everything about them over and over.

[cheapshot11b]

You are probably right, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
But what radiation and time travel concerns....I thought Faraday radiated his mouse to make the mouse travel into time mentally. I didn't have the impression that the mouse made a time travel all by itself and when returning caused radiation in the lab of Faraday. But yes maybe I misunderstood what he was doing in his lab with that mouse.

ya, i thought the radiation was more of a conduit to the time travel...like a neccesary catalyst.

[Panda]

...I think the mouse learning the maze was like Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day" learning the piano - you keep repeating (back in time over and over) until you've mastered it - it looks to the observer of the mouse that he was under the 'light beam' for a few seconds when actually he was reliving the maze over and over many times until he mastered it.

Sounds like this would explain how Ben knew so much about the losties - he had them pre-screened and was studying everything about them over and over.

Do you mean due to the light beam, the mice relives the maze just much quicker than without the light beam.
So you think the light beam is just a method to learn faster...as to us it seems only a few seconds...but the mice did the whole learning process in these few seconds.

But even than it is related to mind travel. If the mind proceeds in a much higher rate than usual, it could give one the impression that he went into the future....because you would know that it is not realistic to learn something that quick.
If time can be compressed it could result in experience mind travel.

[notsolost42]

Panda, the rat Eloise's consciousness went into the future with the device that Daniel Faraday had been working on. It went into the future by a short period of time, hours maybe, when Daniel had taught her the maze. When her consciousness came back to that time and she "awoke" she had remembered what she had learned in the future and was thereby able to navigate the maze. It's like when you sleep. Your subconscious dreams. It is a different state of being. The rat did not physically travel into the future but rather just its mind.
I'd like to see the original Orientation film again, where it showed DeGroot teaching a class. I have a feeling that we'll see Daniel Faraday there somewhere. Maybe he is the inventor of the Orchid. He has definitely, I believe, been there before. Unquestionable!!!!

[Panda]

Panda, the rat Eloise's consciousness went into the future with the device that Daniel Faraday had been working on. It went into the future by a short period of time, hours maybe, when Daniel had taught her the maze. When her consciousness came back to that time and she "awoke" she had remembered what she had learned in the future and was thereby able to navigate the maze. It's like when you sleep. Your subconscious dreams. It is a different state of being. The rat did not physically travel into the future but rather just its mind.
I'd like to see the original Orientation film again, where it showed DeGroot teaching a class. I have a feeling that we'll see Daniel Faraday there somewhere. Maybe he is the inventor of the Orchid. He has definitely, I believe, been there before. Unquestionable!!!!

I think I must have used some wrong words, of that I didn't explain myself well as English is my fourth language.
But I was talking about mind travel.
Daniel did some mind travel as well i think, and that is why he certainly knows about the Orchid...and yes maybe he invented it. But he wasn't not that far at the time he was doing tests on the mouse.

[cheapshot11b]

Imaginary space? WTH is that?

i had the same question. i know a little about imaginary numbers (i)....like the Square Root (SQRT) of a negative number.

example: sqrt -9= 3i

it doesn't fit the number classification we use b/c 3*3 and -3*-3 both =+9, not -9, therefore not a true value...



i'm sure imaginary space is way more complicated...but that's all i can fathom.

[snow24]

I was thinking it had something to do with the worm hole theory of real time traveling around the worm hole, and "imaginary" time traveling straight through it. Following the fact that the shortest distance between two points is straight through.

[cheapshot11b]

me too, like it's space and time that's there, only it's not supposed to be.

kinda like the island...

[snow24]

it's space and time that's there, only it's not supposed to be.

kinda like the island...

I really like the way you put that :)

[LostFreak21]

? All this stuff was in the middle of his book. So where in the book was the stuff about Desmond being Faraday's constant?

[notsolost42]

? All this stuff was in the middle of his book. So where in the book was the stuff about Desmond being Faraday's constant?

I believe that when he flipped through his journal to find the page that said Desmond was his constant he flipped it to the left, closer to the front of the book...or to an earlier time frame. If this was in the middle of his journal then guess what...Daniel already knows the outcome!!!