I know the answer...

[big dainjerus]

Hi I am new here. I signed up because I believe I know where they are and what they are on. However, I think it would might be better off in the spoiler section? I don't know where to post my theory. If I can do it here please tell me, but I don't want everyone to start going beserk because I came with such a real theory (don't think it has been said before).

[shaylynn]

I would post it here in the THEORY section mate if this is just an idea you have:)

[THEONETHINGTHATWILLUS]

Yes Post It Here But Say Dont Read This If You Dont Want To Know The Answer

[crosinuup25]

My theory is that the island is the garden of eden. If you really think about it it would make a lot of sense. locke can walk when his back was completely broken, roses cancer is gone. so many wierd unexplainable things happen, and to me what would make the most sense would be that.

[Rain13]

Haven't the creators said like 100 times now that this is not the afterlife and the crash survivors are not dead? The whole Garden of Eden idea would seem like a huge cop-out to me and would definately be very disappointing.

[cobaltspectre]

My brother's the one who got me into this show by buying me the first season on DVD for Christmas (I'd never watched the show until just before Season 2). We took turns stating the lamest possible explanations for the mysteries (e.g., this is all going on inside Hurley's head in the mental hospital). After all the time we've now invested in this show, they'd sure BETTER have more satisfying, imaginitive explanations than that! :eek:

[crosinuup25]

Yeah they did say it isnt the after life, but the garden of eden is an actual place, not the after life. Also in the garden of eden there is no reproduction, I dont remember the exact verse in the bible but it was mentioned. Which would explain the whole dieing during child birth thing, and the fact that claire lived because she concieved off the island. It wasnt until after adam and eve left that they had children. Some people might think that that would be a cop out or boring but I dont think that there is some super complicated explanation about the island as most people are wanting to believe. If this place was found today it would be a pretty big deal.

[lilsev42]

That has also benn in my mind also.Charlotte was so happy to see the land and water when she finally got untangled and fell in the water like she finally found something of meaning in life.Also,people have mentioned the water bottles that they drink,the water could be part of the fountain of youth or something along those lines.I believe you make a great point,it would be a good reason for so many rich and secret societies to be invovled and such secretrcy to keep it out of bad peps hands.

[Rain13]

I guess the garden of eden theory is more interesting than I had given it credit for, but I'm still waiting for big dainjerus' theory that's so good he wants to label it as a spoiler lol.

[parapadme]

it never crossed my mind about the garden of eden, but for a while now i've been playing with the fountain of youth theory... so the garden makes sense too... richard is a perfect example, and i REALLY dont think the producers wouldnt take the time to make richard look younger or use a different actor. the fountain of youth would certainly attract scientists, and people who want to hide it from the rest of the world... thoughts of mine :P

[csharp1990]

Yeah they did say it isnt the after life, but the garden of eden is an actual place, not the after life. Also in the garden of eden there is no reproduction, I dont remember the exact verse in the bible but it was mentioned. Which would explain the whole dieing during child birth thing, and the fact that claire lived because she concieved off the island. It wasnt until after adam and eve left that they had children. Some people might think that that would be a cop out or boring but I dont think that there is some super complicated explanation about the island as most people are wanting to believe. If this place was found today it would be a pretty big deal.

Well the fact that the Garden of Eden is between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers would kind of stop that theory. I don't know if you're trying to say the island is LIKE the Garden of Eden or it IS the Garden of Eden. In my mind, it's neither.

[Rain13]

You have to remember that the Bible is a collection of stories that were passed down orally for possibly thousands of years before being transcribed to paper. Many of the stories in it, if not all of them, are present in slightly different forms in the myths of many different cultures. For example, nearly every civilization has a similar "Flood Myth" like the concept of Noah's Ark in the bible, and this is a good indication that perhaps all these myths had a common origin. Taking literally the location of the Garden of Eden in the Bible would be a mistake.

One possible way this theory could work is this, for example: Suppose the island is the location of the Garden of Eden. As we know, the continents have shifted throughout history and landmasses have been submerged and have emerged from the ocean due to the geological forces at work on our planet. The island could have been connected to one of the major continents back then, or perhaps the continent that it was attached to has since been submerged, but that's not important.

This idea could be looked at from a completely athiest perspective: Perhaps the Garden of Eden (the island) was the original place of human conception. This was where the first human, being descended from apes, was born who had consciousness as we know it today, and thus begin to pass down memories and experiences to his/her descendents. The Garden of Eden (the island), clearly has special properties to it, and as such would have been remembered as a Utopian place. At some point in history, humans were removed, or removed themselves, from the Garden of Eden (the island) and it's memory was passed down through generations orally until it had developed into the form that is written in the Bible. This is the way that our myths are formed, and that would seem to fit right in with what we know about the island. All of these people, some more recently than others, have stumbled upon the place where human life originated. And, after they have all discovered its great powers, this has started a power struggle that spans across generations and involves all of the powers in the world, some of them much more sinister than we would have thought.

[lostlindy]

oooooohh---are you a man of faith? or a man of science?

[Rain13]

I'm a man of science, but that doesn't mean that I don't respect faith and a person's right to believe in the Bible. I do, however, think it's important, even for a person of faith, to acknowledge that many things in the Bible cannot be taken as literal truth, such as the exact location of a particular place. Facts are distorted by time, and if you take into consideration not only the fact that the stories in the Bible were passed down orally for many generations before they were written down, but also the fact that the Bible as we know it today has been translated and re-transcribed many thousands of times since it's original conception that you have to realize that it's very unlikely that the name of a specific place is the same as it was originally written.

[Olecrowfan]

I had that opinion but, I think there is something more to it... I believe the fountain of youth theory works, but I also feel that there's alot more to the Island and the story that we just don't know, sooo..... By the ticket, take the ride....

[Rain13]

Haha, indeed Mr. Thompson. I don't believe the story I posted is the case, but was just presenting it as a plausible case for the "Garden of Eden" theory, of which I was initially quite skepticle of. I guess I'm just more trying to say that at this point in the show, with us knowing so few answers and having so many questions, there are infinite possibilities.

[aotstosil]

"You have to remember that the Bible is a collection of stories that were passed down orally for possibly thousands of years before being transcribed to paper."

Someone said that earlier but i don't remember who. Anyway, the Bible was written down onto scrolls made of papyrus by the early Old Testament times. I assume that you don't know very much about the Bible so i feel the need to educate you. lol. We could go into a deep discussion about Biblical history, but that would take forever. So think about this, what you saying is that the Garden of Eden is an island in the PACIFIC OCEAN. This means that when God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden thay would be in the middle of the PACIFIC OCEAN, which is very far from where Adam's early decendants lived (Mesopotamia-between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers). There is more i could say but my parents are making me get off, just think that you were just disproved by a sophomore in high school. lol.

Also, the Garden of Eden is supposed to be protected by a cherubim with a flaming sword, not a smoke monster. It's not possible that it just didn't attack them yet because they have been to the east part of the island which is where the cherubim is. "So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.'

If any of you want to learn more about what the Bible says feel free to talk to me.

[NZlostie]

WOW what a debate!

I personally don't think it's the Garden of Eden. Fantastic thought / idea

I want to hear "big dainjerus" THEORY!!!!

[Rain13]

You should read what I'm saying more carefully and tone down the arrogance, for you are incorrect in many of your assertions and it makes you seem rather childish. :) As for the origin of the stories in the Bible, like I've said before, it is undeniable that many of these stories are not unique to the Bible but instead are also present in the myths and legends of many other cultures and peoples. I'm not saying that they are necessarily untrue, for we could debate on that for hours and that would be quite futile and off-topic, but only that the versions that are present in the modern Bible are most likely a synthesis of many different happenings that occurred in places and times that are perhaps not mentioned in the Bible. Not even the most fundamental of Biblical Christians would claim that the happenings of the Bible were transcribed only by firsthand witnesses immediately as they happened. Even they acknowledge that many of these stories were passed down orally before being transcribed to the Bible. I'm sure that you, as a High School Sophomore in particular, are well aware of the tendency of a story to become distorted after multiple retellings by multiple people. Imagine this same phenomena occurring over hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of years and you will understand how names and locations become distorted and altered.

Scholar Joseph Campbell wrote a great deal about the concept of the archetypal myth, presenting the idea that the respective mythologies of each of the world’s cultures contain common plot elements and character archetypes which suggest something about both the common origin of our human experiences and our collective need for myth. Campbell connected the concept of Carl Jung’s archetypal personalities to sociology and human history to draw parallels between such ancient writings as the Bible and the Epic of Gilgamesh. Referring back to the flood experienced by Moses in the Bible: this same event is described in the Epic of Gilgamesh, though with different characters and under different circumstances. This suggests that the writers of the Bible and the Epic of Gilgamesh were portraying the same incident in their respective writings, and the fact that these two accounts vary so drastically is a testament to this phenomenon to which I refer to. Indeed, the Epic of Gilgamesh was first transcribed thousands of years before the Bible, and is therefore likely to be more accurate. So again, the notion that the facts contained in the Bible are spot-on is quite inaccurate, and your assertion that the Garden of Eden must have been located in Mesopotamia is also inaccurate.

You assume that I am unlearned in the Bible, and while I do not read it religiously, I have studied it significantly and am aware of what it says about the location of the Garden of Eden. According to the Book of Genesis, the Garden is located around the four rivers Euphrates, Tigris, Pishon, and Gihon. These latter two rivers are of course no longer present on the face of the Earth, and indeed their only recorded existence is within the pages of the Bible, thus presenting us with a problem in discerning the location of the Garden. Let’s not forget, as we have seen in the aforementioned “Flood” example, that the details of myths are distorted as they are passed down from generation to generation. Elements are added both intentionally and accidentally, and stories are tailored to be more easily relatable to their target audience. Consider, for example, the tendency of particular cultures to bestow their own cultural appearances and customs upon ancient religious figures. Jesus Christ, who most likely resembled in appearance the modern-day Arab-Palestinian, has been portrayed in nearly every skin color. Europeans changed his skin color to pale white in order to make him easier to relate to, and African Americans present him as looking dark for the same reason. As such, you will even find many anachronistic features in religious stories as they are tailored to fit with the times: it is a simple fact that humans like to hear stories about people who are like them. This applied to the writers of the Bible and also to the people who they first heard these stories from. It is quite possible, and even likely, that the locations of some of the happenings in the Bible were changed in order to make these stories easier to relate to. Also, you must realize that not only were these stories passed down orally, but that this passing down between generations most likely occurred during times of great migration and across several cultures. According to the widely accepted and genetically supported “Recent Single-Origin Hypothesis”, the place of origin of Homo sapiens is in Africa. As such, it would be quite unlikely that the Garden of Eden was, in fact, located where it was purported to be located in the Bible. More likely being located in Africa or somewhere else along the journey taken from Africa to the Middle East, the Garden of Eden could be anywhere. Also, as I mentioned earlier, let us not forget the ever-changing nature of our physical world. Geological forces are constantly shaping our the surface of the Earth, as is evidenced by the disappearance of the two rivers mentioned in the Book of Genesis as being near the Garden of Eden, and it is quite possible that the Garden of Eden broke off from continental Africa or Asia, or wherever it was originally located, at some point in time and is now located in the Pacific Ocean. Let us not forget, this is a sci-fi show where the laws that govern our reality are often suspended, so I find it much more likely that the writers would use empirically supported evidence as to the location of the Garden of Eden rather than trying to stay true to what is written in Bible.

I’m sure this was quite a dense read, but after being called out I had to be as detailed as possible in my ideas about this, so my apologies to all those who came to these forums for a light read after school or work and were subjected to a rather dry history lesson lol.

[littlekinder]

If you are convinced that the Garden of Eden is part of created stories across cultures, why are you trying to show how it COULD have been near the Tigris and Euphyrates and then broken off.. and so on...

And what is up with the idea that homo sapiens first evolved in this place and therefore it has "magical powers"? That was presented as a secular view? Magic?

I think the Garden of Eden theory doesn't hold as much water as the ones regarding physics, wormholes, etc. And I am a Bible believing Christian that has great respect for the historical accuracy of scripture - for many reasons.

But I still don't think the losties are in the Garden of Eden! However, I think there are many bibilical allusions, just as there are many literary and philosophical ones. It's just thrown in to make it all more complex.

[King_Nate]

2 funny..arguing over what the ISLaND ISNT! Is definatly not the garden of eden or fountain of youth, GET REAL...who hasnt aged? THEY ALL HAVE!!!!!!!. oh my goodness take an inch and steal a mile....you are taking it 2 far....go with what we know, obvious the bermuta triangle is opposite of where they are but the idea of folks "lost" in the bermuda triangle all are on some island in the atlantic ocean could be more real! Think about it, if this island is so hard 2 find maybe its simular on the other side of the globe, which i think DANIEL FARADAY is definatly going 2 explain 2 us in further episodes....and if the time on faradays time experiment with the boat is rite, then the boat time elapsed in minutes would almost exceed 2 days behind of the frieghter which could be huge as far as ben being able 2 know what is going on outside the islands time and the real worlds time, which would make him the MOST POWERFUL man there is..one who could GAURENTEE what is going 2 happen off the island!! caus eon the frieghter the MAKE IT KNOWN that its DEC 24th, it will be interesting 2 see if christmas gets brought up .."on the island" cause it should be the 22nd on the island and the 24th on the frieghter....HMMMM?

[aotstosil]

WOW! seriously man calm down. i would further argue the topic if i wasn't a high school student with limited knoledge up against a college graduate who sounds like he has a PhD (not that it usually stops me). I hope i didn't offend you by calling you out like taht, i just have a tendency to argue everything (especially things that concern my beliefs) I have been in trouble numerous times in school for calling out teachers without thinking of the possible consequences, and this seems to be one of those times. I do tend to get a little fired up about these things and I appologize for behaving the way I did. lol. One thing I want to know is, why is the world against Christianity? why do we rarely question the theories of evolution and the Big Bang but millions of people are frequently attacking Christian beliefs.

Also remember that there should be an angel guarding this island with a flaming sword. I personally believe that J J Abrams will end LOST with the biggest cliff-hanger in the history of television that leaves you with no answers and forces you to draw your own conclusions. Kinda like Cloverfield lol!

[dcicala421]

One thing I want to know is, why is the world against Christianity? why do we rarely question the theories of evolution and the Big Bang but millions of people are frequently attacking Christian beliefs.


First of all, how does a conversation regarding the origins of a few Bible stories and how they relate to LOST equate to the world attacking Christianity? Where do you get your figure of millions of people. Hyperbole does not help make your case.

Second, there are many people who always question the theories of evolution and the big bang. They are known as physicists, archaeologists, mathematicians, chemists, etc. How do you think they arrive to their theories? By questioning the work of themselves and their peers and making conclusions based the answers they find to these questions. The reason science evolves is because there are so many people asking the questions which you have just purported are not asked.

I'm sorry, but I had to comment on that loaded statement. Also, what happened to the original poster who knows the answer?

[dcicala421]

One thing I want to know is, why is the world against Christianity? why do we rarely question the theories of evolution and the Big Bang but millions of people are frequently attacking Christian beliefs.


First of all, how does a conversation regarding the origins of a few Bible stories and how they relate to LOST equate to the world attacking Christianity? Where do you get your figure of millions of people. Hyperbole does not help make your case.

Second, there are many people who always question the theories of evolution and the big bang. They are known as physicists, archaeologists, mathematicians, chemists, etc. How do you think they arrive to their theories? By questioning the work of themselves and their peers and making conclusions based the answers they find to these questions. The reason science evolves is because there are so many people asking the questions which you have just purported are not asked.

I'm sorry, but I had to comment on that loaded statement. Also, what happened to the original poster who knows the answer?

[Rain13]

Yeah I also apologize for attacking you aotstosil, lol. This is a subject that I'm very passionate about and I got somewhat carried away :D. I tend to argue pretty fiercely on forums, particularly when I get called out. There's no need for you to apologize for calling me out though. I was in your shoes when I was your age, and challenging people who were more knowledgeable than me in a particular subject was just how I grew my own fund of knowledge, so keep doing it, just also be prepared to be put in your place from time to time.

With that said, responding to Littlekinder:

1. I wasn't proposing that the concept of the Garden of Eden, or any biblical story for that matter, was simply fabricated. I said very specifically that the way it was presented in the Bible is likely not completely accurate given that the person who wrote it was obviously very far removed from its occurrence, both time-wise and likely in terms of location also. Many secular people will say that the Bible is completely hogwash and that none of it happened, but as I've said before, I am of the position that many of these things did happen and that while they may not be presented in complete accuracy, there is some truth to them. In pondering the idea that the island could be the Garden of Eden, again this is not an idea that I subscribe to, but instead I'm merely acknowledging that it is a possibility given what we know, I'm simply stating that since the details about the Garden in the Bible are likely not completely accurate, it could very well have been nearly anywhere geographically and quite possibly could have at some point in history become seperated from a continent and ended up in the Pacific. This is a fictional show, and if the writers are not above toying with telekinesis and time travel than they wouldn't be opposed to putting the Garden of Eden in the Pacific.

2. I don't think I've ever presented any of my ideas about Lost as "secular viewpoints". All I've said is that I view the real world in secular terms; I'm not a religious person and therefore I don't view the Bible as being the absolute truth and I don't believe in God. Given that we're talking about a fictional show that includes many clearly fictional elements, it is quite likely that the writers would include the idea that the place of origin of the human race has properties that defy the laws of physics, as the island clearly does.

Responding to your question, aotstosil, about Christianity:

I think the reason that there is an increasing anti-Christian sentiment in the world, particularly in America, is that followers of Christianity often seem to supress ideas that they view as conflicting with their own. You brought up the Big Bang and Evolution theories, so I'll talk about these. Both of these theories are just that...theories. No real scientist will tell you that Evolution or the Big Bang Theory are 100% certainties, for if they do than they will cease being a real scientist. In science, nothing is a proven certainty unless it is directly observed. It is not a theory that human beings respirate, it is a proven fact, because we have consistently observed it and it cannot be disproven. A theory, however, is something that cannot be proven, at least not yet, but that is supported by great evidence and seems to withstand any potential challenges to it. Obviously, the nature of both the Evolution and Big Bang theories makes it impossible to directly observe them, for the Big Bang would have occurred long ago and evolution is a process that takes place over extreme time frames. Therefore, we cannot call them anything more than theories at the time being. However, it is the broad consensus throughout virtually the entire scientific community that both of these theories are extremely well supported and also extremely difficult to refute. In fact, many scientists would say that these two theories are two of the best and most convincing that we have ever come up with, and it is for this reason that they are both passed off as "being the truth" in our world. If either of these theories were to be disproved someday, which they have certainly not been so far, it would be a great loss for the scientific community, because everything we have learned about our world thus far has pointed very significantly towards them being true. They both fit our understanding of the world almost perfectly, (note that I said almost, since we must not forget that they are both fairly recent and still in the works, and that we are constantly learning new things about our world), and since we are so certain that these theories are true, they are universally accepted and taught as being the true way our world works.

Don't forget, every single textbook reference to these two concepts indeed states that they are theories, and many Christians feel like despite this, the scientific community pushes them too aggressively as fact. However, you must remember, that since these two theories are so well supported within the scientific community, that it is our duty to tell the world that they are most likely correct until we see otherwise. If we as scientists were told to stop telling the world that it can go ahead and accept certain very well-supported theories as fact, than the speed at which our species advances in nearly every field would be impeded, for it is often vital that we act upon the best information that we have at a given time rather than waiting until we are completely certain that it is correct. This approach has worked for the human race and the scientific community thus far.

In terms of the resentment towards Christianity that you're referring to, allow me to speak as someone who is both a member of the scientific community and an Athiest. I do not resent people who are Christians, I only resent those who are unwilling to consider the viewpoints of others and to keep an open mind. I resent those who try to tell me that my way of looking at the world is false because their way of looking at the world is the only true path. More often than not, such people are not Buddhists, but are Christians. I'm not saying that Christians are bad people or that they are always this way, but just that the nature of Christianity, and also of Islam and Judaism and many other religions, is such that there can only be one absolute truth. As a scientist, I am particularly bothered by the fact that followers of religion will often refuse to engage in logical debate. The nature of religion is faith, and faith is defined as believing in something not because there is conclusive evidence from direct observation, but simply because one must, and should, believe. This goes against the very nature of science, which says that only that which we can observe and logically explain can be considered fact. Science is based on rules, and when a Christian demands that his theory, based only on his own insistence that is the truth and a single ancient text, be taught instead of a theory that has been universally accepted by scientists using the same process that has accomplished so many advancements for humanity, it angers me. It also angers me when Christians dismiss science as nonsense and criticize the theories of Evolution as being mere speculation while at the same time relying on scientific achievements during nearly every instant of their lives. Some Christians will curse scientists and their secular agendas and yet fail to realize that if it were not for these same scientific methods they would possibly not even be alive.

Again, if a Christian, or a person of any other religion, can have his beliefs and at the same time respect the beliefs of others and not insist that their beliefs be silenced, I have no problem with him. It has been my experience that there are many Christians like this, and I count many of them as my closest friends. It has also been my experience, however, that there are many Christians who are of the mindsets that I mentioned above, and it is for this reason that you are seeing a backlash against Christianity.

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Now, did somebody say this was a Lost forum???? :p :D

[janet@seaths.com]

I think it is a parallel universe.

[lkeegan]

your theory of the Island being a garden of eden is not far off. However, Ben seems to be it's ruler, and knowing Ben's ways, the garden has been altered a bit?

[skatertsol]

your theory of the Island being a garden of eden is not far off. However, Ben seems to be it's ruler, and knowing Ben's ways, the garden has been altered a bit?
I think it's funny everyone thinks Rain came up w/ the Garden of Eden theory and was actually debating against it earlier ;) Very interesting stuff though, Rain. We'll have to hafta bring it up in our next conference call haha... You find a way to bring Campbell into everything as much as I do authors like Vonnegut and now Huxley (my new kick)

My theory is that we will just hafta wait and see ;) I think it would be a horrible way to end such a good show, but if there was a place for "alternate endings" I'd like to see it all be an imagined world of Dave, Hurley's imaginary friend, who was actually imagining Hurley.

[damon]

something that hasn't been questioned yet about this whole garden theory...Jacob, the guy giving Ben his orders. it's been a while since i've checked out the Bible from my local library or stolen one from a motel, but doesn't Jacob in the bible first appear in Genesis? anyone remember anything about him? any ties? just a suggestions. might be an interesting corner to shine a light in.

[Rain13]

Now that's a cool thought Skater, what if they just had multiple final episodes, each with an alternate ending? :D I think that's the only way they could keep everyone happy.

[skatertsol]

Now that's a cool thought Skater, what if they just had multiple final episodes, each with an alternate ending? :D I think that's the only way they could keep everyone happy.
For sure....I think people are going to be ticked off at how it ends, no matter what....just b/c there are so many theories and everyone wants to be right ;) I think it can be a mindblowing kick-a ending and there will still be naysayers~As long as Sawyer stays alive I'm happy.