Is John the one making the lives of the 06 "so miserable"???

[TheManBehindTheCurtain]

"I'm sorry for making your life so miserable John..."

These were the parting words of Benjamin Linus to John Locke just before Ben venutred down into the station, beneath a station, beneath a station, to turn the "Frozen Donkey Wheel". When I heard Ben say this I immediately though that he wasn't simply talking about John's time spent on the Island, but was speaking in regards to John's life as a whole. I for one think that Ben had a part to play in the pre crash lives of all our favorite "Losites", doing what he could (with the help of Richard and other Others) to make sure that circumstances lead to them all arriving on the Island. Now with Ben off Island and Locke apparently taking his place is it out of the question to think that John is the one making the lives of the 06 so miserable??? We already know that John was against them leaving the Island, and is wanting them to come back. One of the few indicators that I think may point to this theory being true is the vision of Charlie that Hurley saw early in Season 4. During the meeting Charlie said to Hurley, "They need you Hugo". Now I personally can't think of a single time when Charlie called Hurley by his true name, but John on the other hand has been calling him Hugo regularly since the time he first discovered it was his real name. We know that the visions of Charlie were a big part of leading to Hurley's particular downward spiral, so is it possible that this vision could have actually been a message from John? We know when Ben first arrived in Tunisia after turning the wheel that he saw a news report on the death of Sayid's wife Nadia. It's obvious Ben didn't have time himself to do the deed, but could John have had a hand in the murder? The off Island alias that John is using is Jeremy Bentham, a man most famously known for developing the idea of the "panopticon", a prison in which it is possible to supervise all of the inmates without them being aware of who is watching them and when. It really does seems that all of the 06 are now "prisoners" to the choice they made of leaving the Island. So is John the one watching them??? All of their lives seemed perfect when they first arrived but now each and every one of them truley are miserable...so is John to blame??? Will John (or undead John) soon be repeating the words of Benjamin Linus to Jack, Kate, Sun, Sayid, Hurley and Aaron???

[islander]

"I'm sorry for making your life so miserable John..."

These were the parting words of Benjamin Linus to John Locke just before Ben venutred down into the station, beneath a station, beneath a station, to turn the "Frozen Donkey Wheel". When I heard Ben say this I immediately though that he wasn't simply talking about John's time spent on the Island, but was speaking in regards to John's life as a whole. I for one think that Ben had a part to play in the pre crash lives of all our favorite "Losites", doing what he could (with the help of Richard and other Others) to make sure that circumstances lead to them all arriving on the Island. Now with Ben off Island and Locke apparently taking his place is it out of the question to think that John is the one making the lives of the 06 so miserable??? We already know that John was against them leaving the Island, and is wanting them to come back. One of the few indicators that I think may point to this theory being true is the vision of Charlie that Hurley saw early in Season 4. During the meeting Charlie said to Hurley, "They need you Hugo". Now I personally can't think of a single time when Charlie called Hurley by his true name, but John on the other hand has been calling him Hugo regularly since the time he first discovered it was his real name. We know that the visions of Charlie were a big part of leading to Hurley's particular downward spiral, so is it possible that this vision could have actually been a message from John? We know when Ben first arrived in Tunisia after turning the wheel that he saw a news report on the death of Sayid's wife Nadia. It's obvious Ben didn't have time himself to do the deed, but could John have had a hand in the murder? The off Island alias that John is using is Jeremy Bentham, a man most famously known for developing the idea of the "panopticon", a prison in which it is possible to supervise all of the inmates without them being aware of who is watching them and when. It really does seems that all of the 06 are now "prisoners" to the choice they made of leaving the Island. So is John the one watching them??? All of their lives seemed perfect when they first arrived but now each and every one of them truley are miserable...so is John to blame??? Will John (or undead John) soon be repeating the words of Benjamin Linus to Jack, Kate, Sun, Sayid, Hurley and Aaron???

when Ben told John he was sorry for making John's life so miserable, i didn't think he was referring to john's time on the island since john has never been happier. i can't decide if ben was referring to john's pre-island life which we could argue was a mess per his FBs, or ben could have been predicting that john's life was about to become miserable once ben left the island...i dunno.

[beachblinkette]

"I'm sorry for making your life so miserable John..."

These were the parting words of Benjamin Linus to John Locke just before Ben venutred down into the station, beneath a station, beneath a station, to turn the "Frozen Donkey Wheel". When I heard Ben say this I immediately though that he wasn't simply talking about John's time spent on the Island, but was speaking in regards to John's life as a whole. I for one think that Ben had a part to play in the pre crash lives of all our favorite "Losites", doing what he could (with the help of Richard and other Others) to make sure that circumstances lead to them all arriving on the Island. Now with Ben off Island and Locke apparently taking his place is it out of the question to think that John is the one making the lives of the 06 so miserable??? We already know that John was against them leaving the Island, and is wanting them to come back. One of the few indicators that I think may point to this theory being true is the vision of Charlie that Hurley saw early in Season 4. During the meeting Charlie said to Hurley, "They need you Hugo". Now I personally can't think of a single time when Charlie called Hurley by his true name, but John on the other hand has been calling him Hugo regularly since the time he first discovered it was his real name. We know that the visions of Charlie were a big part of leading to Hurley's particular downward spiral, so is it possible that this vision could have actually been a message from John? We know when Ben first arrived in Tunisia after turning the wheel that he saw a news report on the death of Sayid's wife Nadia. It's obvious Ben didn't have time himself to do the deed, but could John have had a hand in the murder? The off Island alias that John is using is Jeremy Bentham, a man most famously known for developing the idea of the "panopticon", a prison in which it is possible to supervise all of the inmates without them being aware of who is watching them and when. It really does seems that all of the 06 are now "prisoners" to the choice they made of leaving the Island. So is John the one watching them??? All of their lives seemed perfect when they first arrived but now each and every one of them truley are miserable...so is John to blame??? Will John (or undead John) soon be repeating the words of Benjamin Linus to Jack, Kate, Sun, Sayid, Hurley and Aaron???

Catching Charlie calling Hurley "Hugo" is very astute of you! When the writers say that they are leaving little clues for us, who says it has to be an object--maybe it's a change like what you have noticed there. A change in choice of words would be a sneaky clue for sure! Are you sure, though, that Charlie never called Hurley Hugo? I question that their lives were perfect when they came back cause after the initial hugs and kisses:

Hugo is not so peaceful now and was terrified that the mileage on the car showed the six dreaded #'s.

Kate was returning to face charges of murder and had a "new" baby to care for---where's her support group for that?

Sun's without Jin, pregnant, and grieving, thinking her mean dad is alive while her good husband, Jin, is dead.

Sayid with Nadia--Is it all sweetness and light or does getting what you want always make you completely happy?

Aaron, no mommy that he bonded with all the time on the island...

Jack--Seeing his mother, what recordings were playing in his mind from way back when his parents weren't getting along? What guilt does he have now seeing her there all by herself? Oh, yeah, Jack is the guilt magnet! How much does SHE know that she never told Jack?

Something not so perfect to think about......

[Jeremy]

when Ben told John he was sorry for making John's life so miserable, i didn't think he was referring to john's time on the island since john has never been happier. i can't decide if ben was referring to john's pre-island life which we could argue was a mess per his FBs, or ben could have been predicting that john's life was about to become miserable once ben left the island...i dunno.

I wouldn't say Locke was always happy on the island. Ben had fooled Locke back in the hatch, and much later, he'd shot Locke and left him for dead.

[beachblinkette]

What may have clinched it for John, that he came off the island, is that if he is manipulating the 06, and it has not produced the results he aimed for, then he has to do a last ditch effort to save himself in Jacob's eyes. With the added power that anyone chosen by Jacob/Island has or appears to have, then John could have been making things screw up for the O6.
So maybe he planted the xray of the tumor in the hospital for Jack to see...

So maybe Sun's potential of hooking up with Widmore is bad luck for those left on the island...the 06, Ben, and John.....

I've always wondered why Charlie appeared to Hurley in the middle of the convenience store! Hurley was buying junk food for sure, so did that guilty feeling over "I know that I shouldn't be eating this stuff" trigger a vision of Charlie? Why is that? If visions can appear, they don't seem to always be able to choose a very good time to do it. What's with that?

But I have to say that the more I think about it, the more your idea about John has real merit! And maybe Hurley's visit to Sun IS going to be the final episode of the show.....?

[notsolost42]

What may have clinched it for John, that he came off the island, is that if he is manipulating the 06, and it has not produced the results he aimed for, then he has to do a last ditch effort to save himself in Jacob's eyes. With the added power that anyone chosen by Jacob/Island has or appears to have, then John could have been making things screw up for the O6.
So maybe he planted the xray of the tumor in the hospital for Jack to see...

So maybe Sun's potential of hooking up with Widmore is bad luck for those left on the island...the 06, Ben, and John.....

I've always wondered why Charlie appeared to Hurley in the middle of the convenience store! Hurley was buying junk food for sure, so did that guilty feeling over "I know that I shouldn't be eating this stuff" trigger a vision of Charlie? Why is that? If visions can appear, they don't seem to always be able to choose a very good time to do it. What's with that?

But I have to say that the more I think about it, the more your idea about John has real merit! And maybe Hurley's visit to Sun IS going to be the final episode of the show.....?

I think that Hurley's vision of Charlie while he was in the convenience store buying junk food was out of guilt. Dave was his former apparition but Hurley killed him off in his subconscious when he dove off of the cliff into the ocean on the island. I think that Charlie is the new "replacement" for Hurley.

I am actually leaning to the idea that John Locke had to return (and I don't think it was by way of spacetime travel but rather conventional methods as Ben had used in the past) to the states to find everyone because it has to do with the islands spacetime travel. Although they weren't physically on the island when it moved maybe they are needed for when it comes back. Especially if you think of it in the terms that the island is in a time loop of sorts and they will have to start over again. Perhaps their plane crashes on the way back!
I keep watching House of the Rising Sun and wondering why Jack took the pouch with the two stones from the bodies and kept it to himself. I keep trying to stare at the dental work (of all things!) of the corpses and trying to match it with any of our survivors! The bottom teeth on one of the corpses is most definitely crooked and I think that possibly Jack has that problem. I have to keep trying to get a glimpse. Anyway, something in the back of my head keeps saying that Jack too the stones and kept them so he had them when he died and he was laid to rest in the cave.
Someone once mentioned on this site, that when Jack came running out of the woods there seemed to be a delay until he heard the crash victims screams. I think it did. It was a split second. The beach was empty. He looked to the left and suddenly there it all was.
I have this saying, well, it's actually a quote from a song, "The faster you go, the rounder you get." I am beginning to wonder if the last episode will be them crashing on the island...again.

[beachblinkette]

I think that Hurley's vision of Charlie while he was in the convenience store buying junk food was out of guilt. Dave was his former apparition but Hurley killed him off in his subconscious when he dove off of the cliff into the ocean on the island. I think that Charlie is the new "replacement" for Hurley.

I am actually leaning to the idea that John Locke had to return (and I don't think it was by way of spacetime travel but rather conventional methods as Ben had used in the past) to the states to find everyone because it has to do with the islands spacetime travel. Although they weren't physically on the island when it moved maybe they are needed for when it comes back. Especially if you think of it in the terms that the island is in a time loop of sorts and they will have to start over again. Perhaps their plane crashes on the way back!
I keep watching House of the Rising Sun and wondering why Jack took the pouch with the two stones from the bodies and kept it to himself. I keep trying to stare at the dental work (of all things!) of the corpses and trying to match it with any of our survivors! The bottom teeth on one of the corpses is most definitely crooked and I think that possibly Jack has that problem. I have to keep trying to get a glimpse. Anyway, something in the back of my head keeps saying that Jack too the stones and kept them so he had them when he died and he was laid to rest in the cave.
Someone once mentioned on this site, that when Jack came running out of the woods there seemed to be a delay until he heard the crash victims screams. I think it did. It was a split second. The beach was empty. He looked to the left and suddenly there it all was.
I have this saying, well, it's actually a quote from a song, "The faster you go, the rounder you get." I am beginning to wonder if the last episode will be them crashing on the island...again.

I think it would be wonderfully freaky (but hellish) to have the show end like that! The beginning would be the end and the end the beginning? Is it all going to come back to where it began on the island, like the rotation of a tire, repeating itself over and over? Is that the time loop you write about? Or, is the rotation more like a spiral , going up, down or sideways not really connecting like a closed circle? It's definitely something to think about....:)

[notsolost42]

I think it would be wonderfully freaky (but hellish) to have the show end like that! The beginning would be the end and the end the beginning? Is it all going to come back to where it began on the island, like the rotation of a tire, repeating itself over and over? Is that the time loop you write about? Or, is the rotation more like a spiral , going up, down or sideways not really connecting like a closed circle? It's definitely something to think about....:)

I keep thinking that it's like a closed circle. Kind of like the island is drifting through this spacetime circle and not really connected to earth in this dimension and it gets sped up by the exotic matter when the wheel is turned or by the hatch explosion, only to come back to where it all began in the end. It would be very freaky and hellish, you are absolutely right! I don't know if the writers really have that in mind though. It sounds very "Twilight Zone" to me.
Just a side note...I have read posts by so many folks here who have actually dreamed about the show. Well, the other night, I had a dream about the writers! I remember they (JJ & Carlton) were in a setting like a diner or restaurant and one of them was reading a script when I walked in. One of them looked up at me and said, "No, not that ending, she'll figure it out!" or something like that! I thought that was so funny when I woke up. I am watching too many reruns I guess!

[beachblinkette]

I keep thinking that it's like a closed circle. Kind of like the island is drifting through this spacetime circle and not really connected to earth in this dimension and it gets sped up by the exotic matter when the wheel is turned or by the hatch explosion, only to come back to where it all began in the end. It would be very freaky and hellish, you are absolutely right! I don't know if the writers really have that in mind though. It sounds very "Twilight Zone" to me.
Just a side note...I have read posts by so many folks here who have actually dreamed about the show. Well, the other night, I had a dream about the writers! I remember they (JJ & Carlton) were in a setting like a diner or restaurant and one of them was reading a script when I walked in. One of them looked up at me and said, "No, not that ending, she'll figure it out!" or something like that! I thought that was so funny when I woke up. I am watching too many reruns I guess!
That dream absolutely sounds like a gift! Whoever has had that kind of dream? :)
Lucky you!!:)

[notsolost42]

That dream absolutely sounds like a gift! Whoever has had that kind of dream? :)
Lucky you!!:)

Oh, I don't look at it that way! LOL! I think my subconscious was saying that as hard as I try, I'll NEVER figure it out!!!! And, that I've just been watching LOST too much!!!

[beachblinkette]

Oh, I don't look at it that way! LOL! I think my subconscious was saying that as hard as I try, I'll NEVER figure it out!!!! And, that I've just been watching LOST too much!!!

Have you read any of those books that a woman wrote on the mysteries of Lost? I think she was mentioned on Dark UFO or Doc Jensen's site. Sorry, I don't remember her name. I just wondered what they are like. No one's seen Ben on a potato chip yet or Locke on a tortilla. I haven't seen anyone writing their Lost memoirs or planning the Lost Broadway musical: Island! Miles isn't yet advertising a psychic hotline that can put you in touch with the spirits of the dead Dharmans.
I imagine they would be hounded to death by irate fans! Haven't heard of any billionaires paying the big bucks to be an extra on the Lost set.

No dubious churches being named Jacob's Apostles of the Mystical Cabin.

No hint yet of any Lost fast food "meal deals": Locke recommends-- Our famous Otherburger with the special Spicy Survivor's Sauce, a heaping side of Widmore Fries, and a large BenBerry Shake. Have an Abaddonut as desert!

No trio has shown up in front of Grauman's Chinese theatre in Hollywood wearing a Jack, Kate and Sawyer costume. No Michael on the same venue crying out "WAAAAALT, Come back, WAAALT"

Hurley's not doing infomercials on a telethon for Colonic cleanses: "Release those toxins that have been terrifying your system!"

Charlotte has not been filmed in Tunisia, trying to get everyone to donate money to the Save The Polar Bears NOW! Society--before they move the island!

Walt's not lecturing in high schools about the dangers of growth hormones and steroids.

Jon Locke hasn't made his first MTV video yet------Locke Sings The Eyeland: melodies of "utter enchantment" with a slightly obsessive drum beat and way too many cowbells.

Charlie isn't being shown doing a Red Cross commerical on water safety. Juliet hasn't made her workout video for expectant mothers. Ben hasn't come out with his 3000 Yummy Ways To Fix Ham! cookbook. and the list goes on....So far so good!!!LOL:D

[notsolost42]

Have you read any of those books that a woman wrote on the mysteries of Lost? I think she was mentioned on Dark UFO or Doc Jensen's site. Sorry, I don't remember her name. I just wondered what they are like. No one's seen Ben on a potato chip yet or Locke on a tortilla. I haven't seen anyone writing their Lost memoirs or planning the Lost Broadway musical: Island! Miles isn't yet advertising a psychic hotline that can put you in touch with the spirits of the dead Dharmans.
I imagine they would be hounded to death by irate fans! Haven't heard of any billionaires paying the big bucks to be an extra on the Lost set.

No dubious churches being named Jacob's Apostles of the Mystical Cabin.

No hint yet of any Lost fast food "meal deals": Locke recommends-- Our famous Otherburger with the special Spicy Survivor's Sauce, a heaping side of Widmore Fries, and a large BenBerry Shake. Have an Abaddonut as desert!

No trio has shown up in front of Grauman's Chinese theatre in Hollywood wearing a Jack, Kate and Sawyer costume. No Michael on the same venue crying out "WAAAAALT, Come back, WAAALT"

Hurley's not doing infomercials on a telethon for Colonic cleanses: "Release those toxins that have been terrifying your system!"

Charlotte has not been filmed in Tunisia, trying to get everyone to donate money to the Save The Polar Bears NOW! Society--before they move the island!

Walt's not lecturing in high schools about the dangers of growth hormones and steroids.

Jon Locke hasn't made his first MTV video yet------Locke Sings The Eyeland: melodies of "utter enchantment" with a slightly obsessive drum beat and way too many cowbells.

Charlie isn't being shown doing a Red Cross commerical on water safety. Juliet hasn't made her workout video for expectant mothers. Ben hasn't come out with his 3000 Yummy Ways To Fix Ham! cookbook. and the list goes on....So far so good!!!LOL:D

LOL!!! You are hysterical!!! What about Hurley doing a KFC commercial?
And, no, I haven't read any of those books. I've tried really hard not to fall into any of the money pits the show offers! The only thing I've done, and it was only a few weeks ago, was to buy a real cheap DVD player and the 2nd & 3rd season DVD's. My daughter already had the first season and what I bought was on sale. I was in sales and marketing for many, many years and I see not only the potential for mega $$$$$ but just how they are hooking everyone in to spend it! I refuse to do it!!! I only got the DVD's because I was so bored...too much politics, don't watch sports and too many reruns! Reading only works in the wee hours when it's finally quiet at my home!
I like your list!!! Ben's lists pale in comparision!!! LOL!!!

[beachblinkette]

LOL!!! You are hysterical!!! What about Hurley doing a KFC commercial?
And, no, I haven't read any of those books. I've tried really hard not to fall into any of the money pits the show offers! The only thing I've done, and it was only a few weeks ago, was to buy a real cheap DVD player and the 2nd & 3rd season DVD's. My daughter already had the first season and what I bought was on sale. I was in sales and marketing for many, many years and I see not only the potential for mega $$$$$ but just how they are hooking everyone in to spend it! I refuse to do it!!! I only got the DVD's because I was so bored...too much politics, don't watch sports and too many reruns! Reading only works in the wee hours when it's finally quiet at my home!
I like your list!!! Ben's lists pale in comparision!!! LOL!!!

Hurley doing the KFC commercial ---love it!! Can you picture Kramer AND Hurley? LOL!!

[notsolost42]

Hurley doing the KFC commercial ---love it!! Can you picture Kramer AND Hurley? LOL!!

LOL!!! Okay, how about this one, Ben doing a commercial for a travel agency for that sunny island get-away!!! I think we've both had too much coffee and too much time on our hands!!! LOL!!! And I'm at work!@!

[beachblinkette]

LOL!!! Okay, how about this one, Ben doing a commercial for a travel agency for that sunny island get-away!!! I think we've both had too much coffee and too much time on our hands!!! LOL!!! And I'm at work!@!
Super funny idea!!! I KNOW that I've had too much coffee!LOL!!