Jacob, and the parodox he created..... Cause "God loves you, as he LOVED Jacob

[Hume]

“God loves you as He loved Jacob.” I believe the use of the past tense in this sentence is significant. As seen in the Room 23 video, this message is taught to the Others. The implications of this message suggest that Jacob is no longer loved by God. Here is my attempt to explain what this means and how Jacob is saving the world.

The Valenzetti Equation was created to determine the precise date for the end of the world. That time has passed. Jacob prevented the end from occurring on that date. He went against fate (God’s plan). The end of the world was not supposed to happen in some future time. It was supposed to have happened already. Jacob is actively preventing this. ‘How’, you ask? Allow me to explain.

Desmond asked Mrs. Hawking why she didn’t save the life of the man in the red shoes since she knew his life was in danger. Her answer was because saving his life in that situation would’ve been pointless. If she prevented his death today, he would just die in some other way tomorrow. This lesson taught Desmond that he could delay Charlie’s death, but he couldn’t prevent it. “The universe has a way of course correcting,” Mrs. Hawking explains.

We have seen that no matter what, there are certain things that can’t happen. A prime example is suicidal Michael. No matter how hard he tried, Michael couldn’t kill himself. Presumably this is because his death would create a paradox. There’s some purpose he must serve and if he died before he served that purpose, then things that already happened in the past would have been impossible.

NOTE: For those unfamiliar with the concept of paradoxes, here is a popular way to think about it: Pretend you travel back into the past and kill your father before you were born. This can’t be possible because it means you could never have been born. So if you never existed, how did you kill your father? This is a paradox. It’s a causal impossibility. So theoretically, no matter how hard you try, you wouldn’t be able to kill your father in the past. Much like Michael, your father would miraculously survive every attempt you make.

Back to the point, how is jacob creating a paradox and preventing the end of the world? By using the island’s energy-created time warping properties. Ben said to Locke, “He (God) can’t see this island any better than the rest of the world can.” The island’s large amount of electromagnetic energy keeps the island in a constant time warp. We know that energy slows time. For more on this concept, read Stephen Hawking’s “A Brief History of Time”. It’s a fascinating read and not too difficult to follow. The island, being the source of large amounts of energy, exists slightly behind the rest of the world. Something disturbed this time delay as we discovered by the discrepancy between Faraday’s rocket and the freighter’s dead doctor washing up on shore. My theory is dealing with a situation that happened before this discrepancy occurred so it is irrelevant to my theory. So when the world ends, there will be a time delay before the island experiences the world’s end. When the world ended, Jacob used that time delay as an opportunity to travel into the past placing himself in the outside world and stayed there. Now the world can’t end because Jacob created a paradox. If the world ends then Jacob will die. If Jacob dies, how did he travel into the past?

So now, much like Desmond kept delaying Charlie’s death, Jacob is delaying the death of mankind. And like Desmond, Jacob understands that he can only delay the end. The universe will find a way to course correct. The hope is that Jacob can delay the end of the world until someone, either Dharma or the Others, can figure out how to change the numbers. This brings me to the concept of the cabin. Why is Jacob living like some kind of hermetic apparition? I won’t presume to know the specific details, but clearly the fact that this elusive cabin, built by a mathematician and not a carpenter, doesn’t exist the same way every other island domicile exists. Perhaps the cabin is a way for Jacob to exist in a state between times, a place that keeps him safe from the universe killing him off but also outside of the island’s time. If Jacob ever really returned to the island then there would be no more paradox and the universe could then course correct by ending the world without killing Jacob. So Jacob is trapped in this cabin and has some serious cabin fever. Perhaps he pleaded to Locke for help because Jacob doesn’t know how much longer he can hold out. The universe is trying to course correct. Keeping Widmore off the island seems to be Ben and the Others’ highest priority. Maybe Widmore returning to the island is the universe trying to course correct and his return would eliminate the paradox. I’m just brainstorming in this last paragraph, so don’t let it cast a shadow over my main theory. I’m anxious to here some thoughts

[navyguy]

bro....english please lol

[krakup]

hey navy guy, where u been, sailing?

[Hume]

It is, and if it went over ur head try reading it again..... But to dumb it down Jacob is stuck in a situation like, lets say Mrs. Hawkings. She dosen't help the guy in the red shoes cause she knows it's useless, course correction will kill him anyway.. But Jacob is still trying to solve the end of the world as I mentioned above... He hasn't given up like Hawking's did with the red shoe guy.. He's fighting to save the WORLD, not just one man...

So the father theory is a paradox in it's own.. Cause if you go back in time and kill ur father.. Well if he died back BEFORE you were born... HOW could you possible travel back and kill him??? You would have never have been born.. So By Jacob effecting God's plan to end the world the universe is trying to correct whatever Jacob did to keep Earth and the island still there... If the island is traveling behind in time... And the earth ends, when the island catches up in time (in theory this is a tv show) It will be gone as well..

So when the world ends, there will be a time delay before the island experiences the world’s end. When the world ended, Jacob used that time delay as an opportunity to travel into the past placing himself in the outside world and stayed there. Now the world can’t end because Jacob created a paradox. If the world ends then Jacob will die. If Jacob dies, how did he travel into the past?


So now, much like Desmond kept delaying Charlie’s death, Jacob is delaying the death of mankind. And like Desmond, Jacob understands that he can only delay the end. The universe will find a way to course correct. The hope is that Jacob can delay the end of the world until someone, either Dharma or the Others, can figure out how to change the numbers. Now hopefully that helped a little???

[krakup]

yeah, why not.so jacob has created a paradox preventing the end of life, buying time for the losties and others t manipulate a favorable outcome. much like des saving charlie to fulfill a greater task. i still think dharma created the problem in the 1st place ie the incident

[Jeremy]

I was going to say something along the lines of the island being a place for Jacob to hide from God, or the place where he might have been banished to, but this works as well.

[beachblinkette]

Hume--This is a unique theory. You have sketched a very provocative outline. My questions are these: Why is Jacob invisible? How will changing the numbers stop the world ending? Is Jacob the biblical figure? How can Ben talk to him or even know he's there? How does Jacob summon people? Why did he choose Locke? Why is Christian his stand in? So moving the island meant it went even further back in time? Are your theory ideas why Hurley said "We're all dead? And how will the 06 change anything by going back? I know that you are not a swami who can answer these questions, but could you think about them as they fit into your theory and see what you can come up with? I'd be very interested to know!Thanks:)

[Don't Have The Map]

“God loves you as He loved Jacob.” I believe the use of the past tense in this sentence is significant. As seen in the Room 23 video, this message is taught to the Others. The implications of this message suggest that Jacob is no longer loved by God. Here is my attempt to explain what this means and how Jacob is saving the world.

The Valenzetti Equation was created to determine the precise date for the end of the world. That time has passed. Jacob prevented the end from occurring on that date. He went against fate (God’s plan). The end of the world was not supposed to happen in some future time. It was supposed to have happened already. Jacob is actively preventing this. ‘How’, you ask? Allow me to explain.

Desmond asked Mrs. Hawking why she didn’t save the life of the man in the red shoes since she knew his life was in danger. Her answer was because saving his life in that situation would’ve been pointless. If she prevented his death today, he would just die in some other way tomorrow. This lesson taught Desmond that he could delay Charlie’s death, but he couldn’t prevent it. “The universe has a way of course correcting,” Mrs. Hawking explains.

We have seen that no matter what, there are certain things that can’t happen. A prime example is suicidal Michael. No matter how hard he tried, Michael couldn’t kill himself. Presumably this is because his death would create a paradox. There’s some purpose he must serve and if he died before he served that purpose, then things that already happened in the past would have been impossible.

NOTE: For those unfamiliar with the concept of paradoxes, here is a popular way to think about it: Pretend you travel back into the past and kill your father before you were born. This can’t be possible because it means you could never have been born. So if you never existed, how did you kill your father? This is a paradox. It’s a causal impossibility. So theoretically, no matter how hard you try, you wouldn’t be able to kill your father in the past. Much like Michael, your father would miraculously survive every attempt you make.

Back to the point, how is jacob creating a paradox and preventing the end of the world? By using the island’s energy-created time warping properties. Ben said to Locke, “He (God) can’t see this island any better than the rest of the world can.” The island’s large amount of electromagnetic energy keeps the island in a constant time warp. We know that energy slows time. For more on this concept, read Stephen Hawking’s “A Brief History of Time”. It’s a fascinating read and not too difficult to follow. The island, being the source of large amounts of energy, exists slightly behind the rest of the world. Something disturbed this time delay as we discovered by the discrepancy between Faraday’s rocket and the freighter’s dead doctor washing up on shore. My theory is dealing with a situation that happened before this discrepancy occurred so it is irrelevant to my theory. So when the world ends, there will be a time delay before the island experiences the world’s end. When the world ended, Jacob used that time delay as an opportunity to travel into the past placing himself in the outside world and stayed there. Now the world can’t end because Jacob created a paradox. If the world ends then Jacob will die. If Jacob dies, how did he travel into the past?

So now, much like Desmond kept delaying Charlie’s death, Jacob is delaying the death of mankind. And like Desmond, Jacob understands that he can only delay the end. The universe will find a way to course correct. The hope is that Jacob can delay the end of the world until someone, either Dharma or the Others, can figure out how to change the numbers. This brings me to the concept of the cabin. Why is Jacob living like some kind of hermetic apparition? I won’t presume to know the specific details, but clearly the fact that this elusive cabin, built by a mathematician and not a carpenter, doesn’t exist the same way every other island domicile exists. Perhaps the cabin is a way for Jacob to exist in a state between times, a place that keeps him safe from the universe killing him off but also outside of the island’s time. If Jacob ever really returned to the island then there would be no more paradox and the universe could then course correct by ending the world without killing Jacob. So Jacob is trapped in this cabin and has some serious cabin fever. Perhaps he pleaded to Locke for help because Jacob doesn’t know how much longer he can hold out. The universe is trying to course correct. Keeping Widmore off the island seems to be Ben and the Others’ highest priority. Maybe Widmore returning to the island is the universe trying to course correct and his return would eliminate the paradox. I’m just brainstorming in this last paragraph, so don’t let it cast a shadow over my main theory. I’m anxious to here some thoughts

The Doctor appeared dead on the island before we was killed on the freighter... surely this means the island is slightly ahead rather than behind in time?

I like the rest of your theory though, very interesting.

First post by the way... Been reading a while and thought it time to join the fun :)

[notsolost42]

I'm sorry gang. When TPTB used that statement, "Even God can't see the island" or something to that effect they just wanted to drive everyone nuts. It appears to be working! LOL! Listen, what they meant is very simple. Because of the EM properties of the island and the fact that they are warping spacetime around the island is why Ben made that statement. (read my thread about Island Time Epiphany - the mystery is explained) It was not meant to be taken quite as literally as you all are taking it.
Because the spacetime is warped from the electromagnetic properties the island is hidden. That's why radio waves and light waves, etc. are all different. It's the EM. It is so all mighty powerful that it has bent spacetime. Really. You stretch spacetime when you try to leave and you kind of slide in a fold when you are going to the island. I don't think they meant it as literal as you all are taking it!

Hume, I have to thank you. I started to read your theory and had my epiphany and was able to put the entire spacetime island time thing together. Thanks!

[Lupernikas]

interesting concept Hume, I like it and it does make some kind of sense to me although, like all of Lost, it also is hard to make sense of at times.

It does remind me again of a comic book/game I used to enjoy playing known as The Legacy of Kain series. The whole series revolves around time and altering one's fate;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_Kain

the basis is this, it revolves around an immortal, the titular Kain who, as a young man was made a vampire and later manipulated by a group or sect who had working time travel. The world of Kain's time was being ravaged by an evil conqueror so this sect allowed him to travel back in time and kill the tyrant. Of course this would be normally impossible but for one fact; the conqueror was made powerful by a magical sword, to which was bound the soul of an ancient vampire. So they sent him back with this sword, which they stole from the current tyrant. Two incarnations of the same sword and it's bound soul in the same place at the same time created a paradox and enabled the past to be changed, it "derailed history" to use a popular term in the game. This changed the future in a not necessarily beneficial way. The rest of the series is about Kain and the other character, Raziel, trying to correct this flaw in the past, again using the sword to unhinge key events but again, they can only delay the inevitable.

So perhaps Jacob is a similar form of paradox inducing agent...if he is somehow alive on the island and alive in the outside world, this is a paradox in itself. Maybe he is constantly jumping, as Desmond did, between the island and the outside world of past and present. Maybe this is why he needs Locke's help, because he's getting weaker (we see that jumping can eventually kill the jumper, like it did with Minkowski) and needs someone to replace him, another enigma, the crippled man who can walk?

As an aside though, anyone who enjoys gaming and likes a game with a real storyline should give the series a go, I have never seen such a convoluted storyline in any game before or since, you play to see what happens in the next cutscene!!

That's my 2 cents anyway, Jacob is flicking (neuroflipping?) between two realms so when Locke saw him he was 'blurred' not ghostly?

[Monkey-Hands]

What I found very weird is why in the sentence "God loves you as He loved Jacob" the word "He" is written "He" and not "he". Maybe "He" has another meaning??

I also found this very interesting:

http://www.bibleanswer.com/esau.htm

I see the number 3:16 in there which is also the name of an episode of season 5.

[notsolost42]

When writing about God and referring to Him as He or in different tenses it is always capitalized as far as I know.

[Monkey-Hands]

When writing about God and referring to Him as He or in different tenses it is always capitalized as far as I know.

Oh, I didn't know that. I thought only Names and at the start of a sentence the words are capitalized.

[John Locke]

Oh, I didn't know that. I thought only Names and at the start of a sentence the words are capitalized.

Well, god doesn't love Jacob so this does not make sence * the only reason to capitalize the word *god* isn't because it isn't a name but for the fact that he is a biblical figure *

[skatertsol]

I'm sorry gang. When TPTB used that statement, "Even God can't see the island" or something to that effect they just wanted to drive everyone nuts. It appears to be working! LOL! Listen, what they meant is very simple. Because of the EM properties of the island and the fact that they are warping spacetime around the island is why Ben made that statement. (read my thread about Island Time Epiphany - the mystery is explained) It was not meant to be taken quite as literally as you all are taking it.
Because the spacetime is warped from the electromagnetic properties the island is hidden. That's why radio waves and light waves, etc. are all different. It's the EM. It is so all mighty powerful that it has bent spacetime. Really. You stretch spacetime when you try to leave and you kind of slide in a fold when you are going to the island. I don't think they meant it as literal as you all are taking it!

Hume, I have to thank you. I started to read your theory and had my epiphany and was able to put the entire spacetime island time thing together. Thanks!

I like Hume's theory-I think that just b/c we are being introduced to the time travel in these last few seasons doesn't mean that everything that happened in the past 3 needs to be tossed out the window. I think there is still a lot of mystery that can't be explained entirely by science. And it also seems they don't throw words around lightly, so if they are saying even God Himself can't see the island....My money's on the chance there's some real significance to that. just my non-scientific opinion :)

[SkippingInTime]

I'm new here. Interesting theory. I wouldn't rule it out. I really like the idea of trying to stall the end of time. I had a dream once that there were other gears turning and they were set to stop at 2017 and the island would expload and the world end...

It was a pretty weird dream, but interesting all the same.

[tpbaxter]

So when the world ends, there will be a time delay before the island experiences the world’s end. When the world ended, Jacob used that time delay as an opportunity to travel into the past placing himself in the outside world and stayed there. Now the world can’t end because Jacob created a paradox. If the world ends then Jacob will die. If Jacob dies, how did he travel into the past?

I think this was a very good, albeit long-winded theory for it's time. It's kind of fun to compare what we know now to what we knew then. A season later we can at least say that we know Jacob does travel off the island.

As I've learned from hanging around on this forum, I think this theory is essentially based on Novikov's self-consistency principal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_self-consistency_principle). As I've also learned here, this is just one of several ways to avoid a paradox with time travel and even though I don't particularly like the idea that some unknown force will illogically prevent you from doing things just to avoid the paradox, it seems like this might be where TPTB are going with their whole "course correction" spiel.

There are a couple of things I disagree with though. I think course correction is more about Destiny then about avoiding paradoxes. It seems there is some unknown force that wants things to happen in a certain way and trying to change it upsets the gods or something and they just do stuff to undermine your attempt at changing things. I don't think Michael was not allowed to kill himself because doing so would create a paradox; I think it happened because some other force (Destiny?, God?, Jacob?) had other plans for him. Either that or it was just a coincidence.

Also, I don't understand why Jacob leaving the island to go to a time before the end of the world would create a paradox. I also don't understand how this limbo state the world is in while Jacob is still alive would prevent any paradox. And anyway, according to this self-consistency/course correction theory, if leaving the island to before the end of the world would cause a paradox, then Jacob would have been prevented from doing it in the first place, no?


It does remind me again of a comic book/game I used to enjoy playing known as The Legacy of Kain series. The whole series revolves around time and altering one's fate;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_Kain


Good call on the game references, but I think this one is the real game inspiration for Lost: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Myst

[jd95]

Ah, I love every time you bring up Myst, Baxter. Such a great series (though it ended with a real dud).

As for God "loved" Jacob, it could be that Jacob is, for all intense and purposes to the others, God Himself (notice the capalized 'H' there, even though I don't believe in God, but that's neither here nor there). It's the old idea of someone, or something, killing God and then replacing Him. Jacob might very well have done this.

Interesting enough theory though, Hume.