My greatest fear

[LissaMarie]

I just have to purge my soul of the horrible, foreboding feeling I have about where this story is going. I have been a faithful viewer from the Pilot and have visited this site for years but this is my very first post. I truly respect the level of intelligent feedback I typically read on here and welcome your thoughts. Basically, I'm begging you to talk me out of the conclusion I have come to! It sucks!!

I have spent the off time re-watching the past seasons in prep for season 5 and that is really what started the wheels turning. I started getting the sense that both Ben and Widmore seem to have selfish desires in the pursuit to keep / find the island and what a contradiction that is to the spirituality of the island and the gifts it possesses. I just don't buy that Ben and the Others are the "good guys" and Widmore's group is the bad. I also don't buy Ben's story that Widmore dug up graves, bought an airplane and staged the plane crash. There has to be a reason why Ben would lie...

I then re-listened to Lindelof and Cuse speaking about how they originally intended to kill off Jack in the Pilot episode but, obviously, changed their minds because the audience would feel hesitant to invest themselves in the characters and the show. I appreciate their ultimate decision but it really got me thinking about what an insight that is to how the creators of this show think. They have a propensity for perverse / unexpected plot twists, right?

Finally, after re-watching the discovery of Oceanic 815 with all passengers on board, the notion that they are destined for certain things that cannot be altered and the island moving in time, I started getting a really sinking feeling.

My fear is that our beloved Losties are "fated" to die in that plane crash for the betterment of mankind. The plane wasn't placed on the bottom of the ocean by Widmore. I think that they will go back in time and the final conclusion will be that all of them will have to die on Oceanic 815. That is why all 324 passengers were found in the wreckage. I'm also guessing that the reason why the pilot didn't have a ring on his finger is because Frank Lapidus will be the pilot on that plane when it crashes. Say it ain't so!!!! Please talk me out of it!

[Fuel]

Ive always had the feeling that when Kate and Sawyer were captured by the others, and they had them out smashing rocks and digging, that perhaps this was perhaps the so-called burial grounds that Mr. Friendly shows Michael in "Meet Mr. Johnson" saying " This is a Picture of the graves Mr. Whidmore had dug up to fill the plane.

[LissaMarie]

The surroundings were similar weren't they?! But that just made me think of something...

They told Sawyer and Kate they were building a runway, right? So what if that is where the O6 are going to land their plane upon their return? The only conclusion we could make is that Ben also knows that they will be returning as he is preparing a place for them to land. He knows their ultimate fate already and is making a way for them to return in order to live out that destiny.

Thanks so much for the post!!

[Primax]

I love the idea. Great insight and I wouldn't be too upset with that myself.

[LissaMarie]

Thanks for the comment, Primax. To me, it just seems so much like the kind of emotional ride TPTB would take us on. After all of the struggles and battles and efforts to redeem themselves from the people they used to be to accepting that they have to die just seems like an extremely cruel prank. That would make "Old Yeller" seem like a comedy! I really hope I'm wrong!

[krakup]

Thanks for the comment, Primax. To me, it just seems so much like the kind of emotional ride TPTB would take us on. After all of the struggles and battles and efforts to redeem themselves from the people they used to be to accepting that they have to die just seems like an extremely cruel prank. That would make "Old Yeller" seem like a comedy! I really hope I'm wrong!

lol yes it sounds like lost

[gingergrant]

you know, that really does sound like the sort of ending that they would do. :(

[EMIT]

I can talk you out of this:"Charlie"
If they were ALL ment to die, then why would Charlie be chosen to die first? The universe wanted him to die, as explained by Ms.Hawking, but then surely they would of all died due to course correction like Charlie?

If you can explain Charlies part in this, then I am impressed.

[notsolost42]

An interesting idea. One question, how do you explain Adam and Eve?

[LissaMarie]

I can talk you out of this:"Charlie"
If they were ALL ment to die, then why would Charlie be chosen to die first? The universe wanted him to die, as explained by Ms.Hawking, but then surely they would of all died due to course correction like Charlie?

If you can explain Charlies part in this, then I am impressed.

Thanks for your comments!

I believe the answer is simple and complicated all at once....time travel. I think that in order for all passengers to be alive at the time of the plane crash, they will have to go back in time and change certain events. I think that once these certain events are changed, it will alter the future. What if they go back in time and alter Ben's power on the island? What if it's before the purge and the DI end up remaining on the island and Ben isn't the leader of the Others? That would certainly change a lot of things, not mention Charlie's need to unblock the signal! The thing that starts to make my ears smoke is what happens to those who were effected by the original course of events if these events are altered in this "alternate" past? If the island goes back in time and they can still communicate with the outside world, are they communicating with the outside world in the past or present day? Belive me when I say that I don't have ll of the answers...just a sinking suspicion.

I can't wait to find out "when" the island moved and all of the other nuances of this story, regardless of my fears of where this story is going!

[LissaMarie]

An interesting idea. One question, how do you explain Adam and Eve?

I think the island has been subject to traveling in time more than once and Adam and Eve are the result of that. I personally don't have a strong feeling on who they will turn out to be but I do believe that they are the result of time travel. My favorite theories are that they might be Ji Yeon and Aaron or Penny and Desmond. I can't wait to find out!!

[Pelegrin_1]

My greatest fear is that Jack becomes the ultimate "hero" in the end, saving everyone or fixing everything, or that the whole story of the islands will be shown to focus around him and his father/family. Jack has always been one of my least favorite characters on the show, just too typical 1st star type of character, compared to all the dynamic elements of most of the other characters. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Jack, I just don't like his character that much.

[LissaMarie]

Unfortunately, I think you have reason to be fearful of that! I think Aaron will turn out to be a very important person in the mythology of the island and Christian has to be a central figure due to all of the connections.

[notsolost42]

I keep saying it is the Shephard bloodline!!!!

[LissaMarie]

I totally agree, Notsolost!

[Fuel]

The only reference made about the area they were working in, was made by Juliet in Through The Looking Glass Part 1, when her and Sawyer were heading back to the Beach to check on Jin, Sayid, and Bernard. And it was kind of a Joke in a way.

Sawyer said "What the hell did you have us out there doing anyway?"

Juliet "We were building a runway"

Sawyer " a Runway? for what?"

Juliet "The aliens" Smiles.... " I don't know what for. You think they told me everything?"



And as for Aaron being very important... I have to agree 100%. Mainly because looking back at all the times Charlie was supposed to die, Desmonds predictions were 100% right down to the second with the lightning, the drowning and the close call with the arrow thru the neck. Now... He tells Charlie he has to drown, because when he does, he sees Claire and Arron getting on a Helicopter, and well.... that hasn't happened just yet. But, I'm sure it will..in one of the episodes towards the end.

- Fuel

[LissaMarie]

The only reference made about the area they were working in, was made by Juliet in Through The Looking Glass Part 1, when her and Sawyer were heading back to the Beach to check on Jin, Sayid, and Bernard. And it was kind of a Joke in a way.

Sawyer said "What the hell did you have us out there doing anyway?"

Juliet "We were building a runway"

Sawyer " a Runway? for what?"

Juliet "The aliens" Smiles.... " I don't know what for. You think they told me everything?"

- Fuel

Thank you so much for the quote, Fuel. That is exactly what I was referring to. My interpretation was that Juliette was obviously joking about the aliens but that she was told they were building a runway. Whether that turns out to be the case remains to be seen. So many things come right out of left field on this show!

[Brandon]

The only reference made about the area they were working in, was made by Juliet in Through The Looking Glass Part 1, when her and Sawyer were heading back to the Beach to check on Jin, Sayid, and Bernard. And it was kind of a Joke in a way.

Sawyer said "What the hell did you have us out there doing anyway?"

Juliet "We were building a runway"

Sawyer " a Runway? for what?"

Juliet "The aliens" Smiles.... " I don't know what for. You think they told me everything?"



And as for Aaron being very important... I have to agree 100%. Mainly because looking back at all the times Charlie was supposed to die, Desmonds predictions were 100% right down to the second with the lightning, the drowning and the close call with the arrow thru the neck. Now... He tells Charlie he has to drown, because when he does, he sees Claire and Arron getting on a Helicopter, and well.... that hasn't happened just yet. But, I'm sure it will..in one of the episodes towards the end.

- Fuel


I did think that there is some kind of alien involvement to the island. Like the island itself is a moveable platform that was put there a long time ago, the island was surrounded by a forcefield of some kind to make it invisible to the outside world, the 4 toed statue is that of an alien, the Dharma logo looks like a space ship,, and etc. I know, sounds weird.

[krakup]

i think we see now the island is some kind of "time convergence" obviously performing some necessary task in relation to the function of time.important enough it needs protecting.who cares about the island enough to kill himself to save it.i'm hoping he comes back and really isnt dead when its all over

[LissaMarie]

I think the runway is where the Ajira Airlines plane will land, bringing back all of the O6...including Walt. Walt will be the key to re-entering the field that protects the island because he is "special". Just my thoughts...

[losty002]

Everything you said is plausible, but the shows creators have made such a big deal out of the fact that the survivors are NOT DEAD.
If the writers end the show with this scenario, it will be the biggest cop out of answering all of our questions.
The main reason people have gotten into this show as much as they have is because of those questions.
Throwing a "They all have to die" kind of twist is really Soap Opera 101 writing.
I sincerely hope you are wrong.

PS- It's a good "I told you so" Though

[5starboss]

hmmm.....:confused: I can't think of anything rock solid to debunk your theory. It's possible.

what about Cindy the stewardess? I've read she was an Other working for Ben the whole time. Or even if she is a converted Other why would they let her die?

[LissaMarie]

I don't believe that they are already dead, as TPTB have said that isn't the case. I guess what I'm fearing is that they will learn that for the betterment of mankind, they will have to die. With the difference in time between the island and the rest of the world and the apparent time loop they are in, the only way to stop it will be to crash on flight 815. I'm not really even saying that this is my theory...just a creepy, foreboding feeling. I pray this isn't how the show will end...trust me!

5Star...I don't know the deal with Cindy. I always just assumed the Others deemed her to be one of the "good guys" and she switched teams...but you know what they say about a$$uming, right?! :)

[alanfxu]

I absolutely think your onto something!

unfortunately :(

The island had business to take care of, it fated everyone on the plane to be there and serve its purpose through a course of events. purging itself of ben.... of widmore.... hiding itself, killing its threats, and it needed the survivors to do it.

BUT like michael, charlie, boone (i guess) and now locke.... death is part of your duty to the island. and recoursing history once everything is done, would totally be up the creators alley, especially considering how complex the plot is getting now. During season 3 when naomi shows up and mentions the plane in the ocean... it made me think about some heavy stephen hawking concepts about particles coexisting with themselves when they enter blackholes. and after the hatch exploded it was a little obvious (desmonds consciousness travelling through time) that the island had some special properties... it just made me consider both planes being the real plane.

and in spite of what the creators have said about NO paradoxes on the show and what farraday reitterates about changing the future (which HE has been guilty of attempting.... think about it) it shouldnt be taken as seriously as people on this message board seem to think it might be (the creators have changed their minds about things before... i seem to remember them saying, NO TIME travel once upon a time). the creators might be saving the paradox for the end. Also there are already small paradoxes existing already, just ones that dont contradict history. Locke gives Richard the compass in 1954, leading to Richard giving Locke the compass in the future (both events needed each other to happen.... paradox) Jin tells danielle (i just hacked up her last name, so she is danielle.. haha) about the radio tower.... AND she is who told the losties (jin) where it was.. another tiny paradox.

the show is slowly setting us up for something liek this, even if it isnt 100%

Good thinking!

[alanfxu]

hmmm.....:confused: I can't think of anything rock solid to debunk your theory. It's possible.

what about Cindy the stewardess? I've read she was an Other working for Ben the whole time. Or even if she is a converted Other why would they let her die?

I think they will change the islands history so that it is at peace from exploitation, then change their own history preventing the plane from ever crashing at all.. they all just end up dying in the ocean. OR no crash at all... they all get to LA and never knew the island existed.

kind of like donnie darko... it would be genius if they pulled it off. wouldnt surprise me

[LissaMarie]

I appreciate all of your feedback guys!

Alan, thank you for your thoughts as well! I love having the opportunity to bounce ideas off of people who "get it". Thanks!

Here is a little "stream of consciousness" thinking about This Place Is Death..

I think it's a "slippery slope" to take a character's word for the rules that bind the creators of Lost. Faraday has said that the past cannot be altered but what if there are 2 different schools of thought on the subject and that is what divides Widmore's group and Ben? I also think it's difficult to call the "Others" (meaning Richard's group) Ben's group at this point. Ben seems to have his own agenda without consideration for the best interests of the Others or the island. It seems like bringing the O6 (and everyone else who left) back to the island IS altering the past. This can't coincide with Daniel's (Faraday) philosophy that the past can't be altered. But this is where I get so damn confused!! Eloise Hawking is Daniel's Mom and he sent Des to meet her so she could tell him how to stop the island jumping and save the "on island Losties", right? Eloise is Ben's trusted advisor and he seems to be accountable to her in terms of getting all of the O6 together so they can return to the island. We also know that Widmore was Daniel's benefactor for his studies at Oxford and he is Theresa's (Daniel's love who is in a coma) benefactor as well. (BTW, I just realized the similarities between this scenario and Claire's Mom and Christian...he was paying her medical bills while she was in a coma too?!) So this leads to the big question...who is Daniel Faraday and Eloise Hawking working for? Where do their loyalties lie? With Widmore or Ben? I must be a sadist because I love the fact that this show tortures me!! Grrrrrrrr!

[SkippingInTime]

Sounds like the crazy dream I had a few weekes ago. In the dream supposedly all the suvivors crashed in the ocean. That was what was SUPPOSED to happen, but because of some error (perhaps the island being moved around and the time flashes, the island happened to be there at the time. Those people were all supposed to be dead in the ocean, but they survived because they were sort of set back to before they died... (Maybe that's what happened to Jin??)

As a result the universe is trying to course correct and kill those survivors because they weren't supposed to live in the first place.

About the alternate plane and the bodies: Windmore had nothing to do with that and that was Ben's lie because he has a thing against Windmore. After all we know Ben "isn't entirely truthful."

That was part of the dream anyway...

In the dream supposedly Locke died because he time switched to 2017 when the world is supposed to end according to some cultures. He sees the island expload and the world end.

That part was probably way off base, but that is what dreams are, right?

[LissaMarie]

Good Lord, Skipping in Time! I envy your ability to dream somewhat logical dreams! Last dream I remember I was swimming in a bowl of spaghetti and almost drowned when I tried to cling onto a meatball?! Life just isn't fair!!

[SkippingInTime]

LissaMarie, lol, I left out a lot of far out things that were in the dream, but that was the basic underlaying theory. My dreams scare me too, how "logical" they can be sometimes.

That would be pretty cool though if that were the way Lock would die. When I saw the gear turning by itself in the last episode, that made me think of the dream a little, though there were no glowing gears in the dream.
Would also be pretty cool if there were other gears there in the island waiting to be dug up.

Now that has me on another train of thought... The gear was stationary before Ben turned it. Now that he turned it partially, it is moving on its own and causing time flashes every time it spins off... Now that Locke is turning it, does that mean it will stop turning or will it continue? If it continues, but spins on its axis, will that make the time skips in a more logical pattern, rather than random?

Okay I strayed off point. Questions...

Also I wonder what if they happen to be in the exact place at the exact time they were in the past, what that would do. So far that has yet to happen... They got close.

[LissaMarie]

That would be strange if that is how Locke bites it. You would have to change your name to Nostradamus or Joseph (and wear a technicolor dreamcoat)!

Your questions / thoughts are interesting. The thing that I noticed is that when Locke turned the wheel to set it back on its axis, it seemed to light up just as it did when Ben turned it. Almost like it was "powering up". Christian said that Locke needed to "give it a little push" to set it back on its axis but was he telling Locke to do that in order to stop the Losties from skipping through time or so Locke could leave the island? I assumed that when Locke "stopped the record from skipping" he stopped the time skipping but did he move the island again? Just when a few questions are answered, a whole new crop surfaces! This show is the bomb...

[SkippingInTime]

I guess we will have to wait until next Wed to see if Joseph or Nostradamus would be a good name for me. I like the refrence to Joseph, considering he was known for his dream interpetation skills.

Also I noticed each time it flashed it got brighter and more painful for the people. I'd like to see old smoky appear again and see the temple. I don't think we've seen the temple yet have we?

[LissaMarie]

I don't think so. My thinking is that we were just seeing the fence and "Camelot" will be behind that wall. I agree that it seemed a lot brighter and more painful. Was that because less time elapsed between jumps? So many questions...this season is like 1 step forward, 2 steps back!