alternate realities connected by gravity

[splat]

One of my students shared this with me. In some theories of physics alternate realities are said to be connected by gravity. Could Darhma have been experimenting with the link between realities? Could Jack, Lock, Walt, the resuers, desmond etc. all be operated in the same space/time but in different realities?

[TuesdaySmith]

That's one of my theories.. a few other people are thinking the same thing too.

I don't like the time travel thing, but I love the idea of them being trapped in certain realities because they didn't follow their destiny..

[bunnydixon]

i am more with the parallel dimensions than the time travel but i really like parts of the mirror matter theory someone else posted. although some of the time travel fits in with all these theories aswell.

[Dzbabykel]

I agree, thats a pretty good theory....its pretty close to how I've been thinking out everything.

[King_Nate]

Season 2 Has Alot Of Info In It......mr Ecko Threw Chills Down My Spine When He Was Talking 2 Locke About "lemme Start From The Beggining" And He Talks About A Temple .....and Ben Just Happened 2 Send All The Other People 2 A Temple.........then He Is Explaining 2 Lock3...b4 Jesus They Used 2 Worship False Gods=4toe Leg Maybee? Ugh I Loveee This Show!!!!!

[Archangel-Player]

One of my students shared this with me. In some theories of physics alternate realities are said to be connected by gravity. Could Darhma have been experimenting with the link between realities? Could Jack, Lock, Walt, the resuers, desmond etc. all be operated in the same space/time but in different realities?
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That's an intresting thoughts. That might be why the Hatch imploded instead of Exploding. While the hatch was being sucked in. It's possable that it enterd Hyperspace that could be why we saw the extreamly bright white light as Desmond turned the Fail safe key.Wouldn't it be something in the hatch didn't smash into the ground but rather vanished into Hyperspace ? that would be why there is nothing more than a big hole now. Surely all three men would have been crushed had the hatch imploded into the ground. But yet all three men where scaterd into differnt parts of the island. As if all three enterd a differnt worm hold leadig to the island. We are supose to see an episode explaing what whent on inside the hatch as Desmond turned the key. We just saw the out side. We never see what whent on inside. So that episode will have an inside look. That should be intresting an dprobly an important episode. It looks like Daniel has his work cut out for him if he is a
physicist. He must be there to study the anomaly found on the island. It looks like we get a sky view of the island this week. As the helicopter goes eto the freighter. Atleast I hope that is part of this episode. Sinc ethey are just now thinking about repairingteh electrical equipment in the helicopter.

[Glenn2000]

I posted this over in the forum regarding whether or not the wreckage in the deep ocean trench was staged. I'm going to elaborate some here. It may shed some light...


I don't think the survivors were placed on the island by anyone other than the accidental zap by the electromagnetic disturbance.

I think that flight 815 is both at the bottom of the trench off Java AND on the hidden island. This all goes into theoretical physics and "Gedanken Experiments - German for Thought Experiments. Dharma has created a time machine that used the electromagnetic power of the island to separate regular time from "island time." This has possibly caused a wormhole and put the island into another dimension.

Lost is a grand Gedanken Experiment, a test of science and philosophy. It asks the question: What if time travel were not only possible, but real, with technology developed in a manner as realistic and consistent with known theoretical physics as possible? AND, to make it even more dramatic (and a hit TV show), what if you could travel back in time AND NOT KNOW IT? The passengers of Oceanic 815 have done exactly that, and the writers have taken all of us along with them, sharing the same sense of confusion and mystery.

When you drop all the goofy time travel stories and movies and TV programs and do a little investigation into the impossibly of the feat you learn that there are some constraints of physics and quantum mechanics that apply to going back in time.

A time machine needs two portals connected by something (current science/physics says a wormhole). The first portal is at Dharma's HQ (or some other location we have yet to be told about) and the second one is on the island.

First of all it takes a tremendous amount of energy and currently the technology to travel through time is unknown. But, thanks to the magic of TV and a group of writers that not only think outside the box, they have thrown the box away, the problems facing conquering time travel have been solved. The mysterious Dharma Industries has the secret to time travel

The first portal continues along in "real" time, but the second portal, being encapsulated in the electromagnetic force of the island, and using that same power to run the time machine slowly begins to separate from "the present." Only 108 minutes. That doesn't seem like much, but over time - first minutes, then hours, then years. The separation grows to a significant amount between the portals. If you use the power of the island and can "reset" the second portal to the original time by keying in the sequence to operate the machine every 108 minutes you have created a time/space paradox.

Now, the thing to remember is that nobody can travel back further in time than when the original system was built. Let's say the summer of 1969. So there is no going back to see if Fred Flintstone lived or if Jesus was an only child and if he married. And initially, the separation of time and space wouldn't be all that interesting or reality shifting (Long hair, Viet-Nam protests, LSD, The Doors, grass, free love, transcendental meditation (well, maybe the trip could be considered fun... ) ).

Now with this machine, system, device - whatever you call it you can test one of the greatest Gedanken Experiments of all - the Grandfather Paradox. If you could travel back in time, could you kill your own grandfather (doesn't matter which one, maternal or paternal)? Logic tells you that no, you can't. Because if you did, you would not exist (Now, this particular point may be why Locke couldn't kill his father and needed to have Sawyer do it).

This is the stuff that makes writers go on strike, er, I mean get big bucks for and create hit television. It is both a scientific AND philosophical question. Perfect for confounding the viewers and making the ratings go up. In the case of the Grandfather Parados, while the logic is clear, the actual experienc of it is a mystery. Imagine, if you will, literally standing behind your grandfather as a young man in the past, holding a loaded gun to his head. What would prevent you from pulling the trigger? "Something" would, some unknown mechanism of physics.

So, you have a time machine. You apparently can't pop a cap in your Grandfather, so what good is it?

Well, you get to study all sorts of theoretical physics in a practical setting. For instance, if a childless woman travels back in time and conceives a child what happens? Maybe a childless woman cannot travel to the past and conceive a child, because if she did, she would not have been a childless woman. In LOST both the mother and child die before the birth, thus preventing an anomaly in time and preserving the laws of nature. Because of this even Juliet cannot do anything to change the situation on the island.

Or, consider this: What if a child travels back to a time before he or she was born? Perhaps nothing. . . But, what if the child dies in the past, before being born? Again, impossible. Perhaps "The Others" abduct children on the island to protect them at all costs, for they cannot allow the catastrophic violation of the lows of nature of a child dying before being conceived.

And yet another: If you travel to the past, will you be the "you" of the present timeline when you arrive, or the younger "you" of the past, or some combination of the two? I don't know the answer to this one, but, I believe this offers insight into why Locke can walk on the island . Lock can walk not because the island has powers to cure him, but because he has traveled back to a time BEFORE he was ever paralyzed. He is somehow a blend of the Locke of the present and the Locke of the past.

How does one arrive at the island? There are two methods. First is going through the portal at Dharma HQ. Not via a plane or submarine or any other traditional method.

The other is in the accidental collision with the time-space bubble that surrounds the island, as happened with flight 815. "The Others" didn't know that the Oceanic flight was coming to the island or that it would crash. It was a chance encounter. It was a disaster that created a paradox. What happens to a plane that crashes in the present, while entering the past? Are the passenters dead or alive. I know that Vincent survived, but did anyone see a cat?

Schrodinger's cat, to be specific. So we're back to quantum mechanics. One of the strangest behaviors in particle physics is Superposition, which is the ability of a particle to occupy tow different state simultaneously (such as up and down, left and right, etc.). In the world we know and understand, you cannot be two places at once, but in particle physics, a world of probability, chance and duality, you can. Another Gedanken Experiment was conceived using a cat as an example:

Place a cat in a sealed, steel box, along with a bottle of poison. In addition, a radioactive element is placed within the steel box. The decay of this element triggers a hammer, which breaks the bottle, releasing the poison and killing the cat (now, please all the cat lovers, don't get upset. First this is only an example or theory and no cats were actually harmed and, Second, Schrodinger dreamed this up not me). For the observer outside of the box, they don't know when the radioactive decay happens. Because of the laws of Superposition, the radioactive element can occupy both states simultaneously, for the briefest moment. For that blink in time, the bottle is both broken and intact... the cat is both dead and alive, AT THE SAME TIME. This is a puzzle of science, but more important perhaps is the philosophical question of what does it mean to be both dead and alive?

The passengers, the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815 are dead at the bottom of the ocean AND they are ALIVE on the island. They are both dead and alive. Just like the cat in the box (not to be confused with the cat in the hat). Since they are alive in the "past" of the island's timeline, can they return to the present in which they are dead? That is THE question.

So, if you can use the portal at Dharma HQ to reach the island, why hasn't anyone come through that way? Maybe Ben sabotaged the first portal or the half of the time machine that Dharma has at it's HQ or where ever it is hidden. Part of the plan to get rid of the Dharma crowd included slipping back and destroying the path to the island. It prevents the Dharma people from reaching the island now. And that is part of the reason that the "Fantastic Four" are now on the island looking for him.

Okay, smart guy. Where is the damned island?

It isn't a question of where is the island. It is more of a WHEN is the island. The electromagnetic power source and the resetting of the machine every 108 minutes essentially has held the island at the time and space it occupied when the time machine system came on line. From what we've seen so far, it looks to be between 15 and 20 years separation. This may have resulted in an alternative dimension from the reality that the survivors came from when the flight left Sydney for Los Angeles.

When Locke caused the Swan station to implode and Malcolm set off the failsafe system the island lost the ability to reset it's time/space differential. It is now progressing forward in time, but some 15 to 20 years behind the rest of the planet and again, possibly in an alternative reality or dimension. This is part of the reason that there is an electrical storm off shore that fowls up communication and forced the helicopter down.

[bunnydixon]

very good (apart from the cat bit - and who the heck is malcolm lol) and very interesting - seems to make some sense apart from the grandfather bit. would it have to specifically be you who killed your grandfather if you travelled back in time? or if you went back in time and caused your grandfathers demise indirectly - would this not have the same effect ultimately?

[thelawgiver]

Why has'nt anyone fully explored the debris at the Hatch? I think Hurley salvaged the ping pong table, but a more detailed picking over would be interesting.

Would it support your theory if alongside the plane in the trench they also found The Black Rock?

[Dzbabykel]

Wow! So I just sat and read that whole thing and it sounds very interesting, very well written and explained! It is very in depth but still a great theory nonetheless :) You make a lot of sense when describing why Locke can't kill his father or why they press the button every 108 minutes. I hope others sit and read that as well!

[thelawgiver]

I do not understand why its okay for Sawyer to kill Locke's dad, but not Locke. Now if you travelled back in time and something occurred that killed your father BEFORE YOU WERE CONCEPTED, then you would have a problem.

[missjulie]

Holy crap Glenn2000... that whole post blew my mind. Your dead AND alive explanation explains how Jack's dad is on the island. (Oh yeah, he's there. He's alive. Look at the last 'mobisode' here... http://lost.wikia.com/wiki/Missing_Pieces )
Damn. DAMN!

You're good. Very good.
Thank you for sharing.

[Cloudy]

I do not understand why its okay for Sawyer to kill Locke's dad, but not Locke. Now if you travelled back in time and something occurred that killed your father BEFORE YOU WERE CONCEPTED, then you would have a problem.

Except that no future time lines would be created that included you. It always sounded more plausible that since you already exist, the time line you are on wouldn't catch up with you and erase you. (ala back to the future)

[Dzbabykel]

The theory sounds really good.....however I am so confused :confused:

[LockeFan]

Wow Glenn, that is a very scientific and mind-boggling theory. It could very well be what is going on with Lost. Everything fits together. It will be interesting to see if these types of things are revealed in coming episodes.

[bunnydixon]

I do not understand why its okay for Sawyer to kill Locke's dad, but not Locke. Now if you travelled back in time and something occurred that killed your father BEFORE YOU WERE CONCEPTED, then you would have a problem.

thats what i said! i dont understand why it would be any different.

[LockeFan]

thats what i said! i dont understand why it would be any different.
I think it is because there is something inside Locke telling him that if he kills his father then it is possible that he won't exist in the real world. But Sawyer has no biological connection to Locke's father so there isn't anything inside him telling him not to do it because it wont affect him.

[Archangel-Player]

So how would James killing Locke's father instead counter Locke's theiory if that is what he is thinking. Wouldn't still effect Locke having his father die on the island? Wouldn't he still not exist. If no.Then how?

[dpm909]

I don't think it's coming back up to the present, i think the island is now slipping back in time. My guess is a parabolic relationship, the ship is 80km away and 30 min behind, the closest radio station is in 1937 (hurley's radio, find815.com Earheart broadcast).

one interesting time travel phenomenon story you all might find interesting is 'John Titor', who posted on sites claiming to be from the future, arriving with a GE built time machine. The machine created a time-space distortion big enough for a car and traveler. The concept is based on the theory infinite parallel universes, and the machine could take you to a different timeline with a small 1-2% difference, so perhaps the future he'd return to (or the past he traveled to) would be slightly different. He claimed to be an AWOL U.S. military personnel visiting his deceased family, on a mission from a war torn US future searching for UNIX hardware to compile code on (that his grandfather engineered, why he was chosen for mission). While a lot of discrepancies have been found in his story, it's mostly very cohesive and intelligent, and has explanations for it's own discrepancies. I imagine a similar story developing here... But that theory does away with the whole paradox issue: you are from a different timeline just by the fact of time traveling, so killing your grandfather would have no effect.

four toed big foot statue anyone?

[RMB321]

You all are sooo smart!!! I thought I was a big fan, but you guys come up with the most interesting intelligent theories! I'm really glad I found this place! Let me ask, how does everyone remember everything so well??? I have trouble remembering what happened in the previous weeks episode! Most of you seem to remember EVERYTHING from all seasons! I'm jealous!!

[racerx]

quantum mecanics theory,killing your grandfather in one time line only kills him in that time line you still exist in this one.

[missjulie]

You mean, like two different threads/reality?

For example... when 815 was caught in the storm, reality split... one plane crashed into the trench and one crashed on the island. So they can be dead and alive??

I'm trying to apply the grandfather thing to Lost... I think.

[Dzbabykel]

You mean, like two different threads/reality?

For example... when 815 was caught in the storm, reality split... one plane crashed into the trench and one crashed on the island. So they can be dead and alive??

I'm trying to apply the grandfather thing to Lost... I think.

If thats the case...wouldn't there be 2 missles that Regina sent over? Meaning she sent only one but then one landed in the ocean while a "replica" of the other landed 31 minutes later on the island? Nah I doubt it...I still think the plane found in the ocean was a set up seeing as how they planted a fake pilot there.

[boyo]

i don't think there are any of those supernatural things goin on - time travels, alternate realities, etc. The producers have said many times that everything is for real and has an explanation. This is not a sci-fi movie!

[Dzbabykel]

Yes I agree BUT they've already introduced the idea of time travel to us annnnd we DO know that the island is back in time at least 31 minutes so I don't think its a far off theory by any means.

[missjulie]

I'm so lost. Haha... I think there's time involved, but not how we think of time travel... Lets think OUTSIDE the box. Obviously the writers have. They actually stomped on the box, tore it to little bitty pieces and lit it on fire.

[Archangel-Player]

quantum mecanics theory,killing your grandfather in one time line only kills him in that time line you still exist in this one.

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Yes I wa smore informed about the subject of Quamtum mecanics. That field has numrous ways that time and,space,dimentions can effect you but yet at the same time doesn't effect you. It's like time some how creates two versons of your life. one of you takes the current course while the other takes another course. It sure seems that is whatthe flash fwds are telling us. Changes need to be done or else this caotic time line will come into play. The link below inlighten me quite a bit. I wa sno stranger to time travling by any means. I love anything to do with it. But I wasn't aware of how you your self can't kill your parant"s" You would be errased instantly. But I wasn't sure how having someone else do the same thing an dit not have the daring consqueances had you done the same. In my thoughts it would have ended the same because the same thing happends just diffrent people doing it. But according to Minkowski's research. It can happen. Very intresting indeed. Here's the link below if you would like to read up on it your self.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_spacetime

[greatgodone]

So, if you can use the portal at Dharma HQ to reach the island, why hasn't anyone come through that way? Maybe Ben sabotaged the first portal or the half of the time machine that Dharma has at it's HQ or where ever it is hidden. Part of the plan to get rid of the Dharma crowd included slipping back and destroying the path to the island. It prevents the Dharma people from reaching the island now. And that is part of the reason that the "Fantastic Four" are now on the island looking for him.


maybe people have gone through that way. we know ben and the others left the island, on a sub following a sonar beacon. maybe that was the way to find the portal. that is also how the original dharma members got there. so when ben got locke to destroy the sub he also destroyed the portal.

[PacmanIsLost]

maybe the beacon is just a homing device for the island and there is no portal, it's just hard to find since it's slipping all over the place

[Archangel-Player]

Well Pac I think your portal theiory might have some plasuability to it. after I read up on it today. I also remember Ben gave Michael a bearing coridance of 325 degrees. He said "You will find rescue" if you folow this. Was this the portal out or the location of the freighter? Could it be that some how Ben radioed Michael and told him his mission when he arrived at the coridance he gave him?

I did some research on a Physicist today by the name of Hermann Minkowski. And I found his research very intresting and it helped shine some light on your theiory. Here's the link if you'd like to go check it out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_space . I love this stuff I alway sloved things to do with Time travling and relativity.

It reminded me of the two games Ius eto play that dealt with Time travling and Dimentinal crossing. 1) Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross. Both games are exlant and intresting. Here are their links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrono_Trigger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrono_Cross


I would sugest playing Trigger before Cross if you do decide to play them.

[PacmanIsLost]

i loved chrono trigger... i've thought of it several times while watching lost actually...

and you mentioned the bearing he gave michael... i talked a bit about the daniel talking to lapidis about his bearing in the thread called "the island in the bubble"...check it out i'd love to hear your thoughts

[beachblinkette]

there's another blog by someone called mikeny. His complex theory boils down to a mirror matter universe. You've got to read his stuff.Go to the general discussion and find the link.You will be amazed.

[bunnydixon]

i read something about the mirror matter theory through a link given on here and i really liked that theory!

[banginailz]

Ithink that was the moon mirror theory . Its really heavy

[bunnydixon]

i cant remember - after a while all the theories start to smudge together but i liked the black smoke/shadow of reality aspect of it all.

[banginailz]

i cant remember - after a while all the theories start to smudge together but i liked the black smoke/shadow of reality aspect of it all.

Ill go find it brb

[banginailz]

http://mirrormattermoon.blogspot.com

This is some pretty heavy stuff.

[bunnydixon]

yes thats it - its fascinating!

[Dzbabykel]

I just wanted to add one thing to see what you all thought about it (sorry if it really doesn't go with this thread) but I just watched 'Special' from the first season and it was all about Walt. Well I've seen people talk on these posts about a connection to a snow globe and how thats come up a lot. Well I don't agree that they are in a "snow globe" but I think the idea of some kinda of bubble or force field is definitely possible...I say this because when Walt was looking at the comic book, one of the pages (before the polar bear page) showed this huge shield or something that looked to be surrounding this castle...it was like a protection shield or bubble of some sort. Anyway...I just found it quite interesting since we know the comic book also had the polar bears which were on the island in it. I'll see if I can find a screen cap...just wanted to see what you all thought :)

[bunnydixon]

good observation! and thanks for bringing it up - am sure there is a island in a bubble thread. which obviously lends itself quite well to there being exact co-ordinates to getting in and out.

oh digressing a bit here - but what if the plane didnt enter via those co-ordinates?

[BigL5000]

I think this is a good theory.

[littlekinder]

It would seem that the losties - at least 6 of them, anyway, are at some point able to return to the present. Maybe that is one reason Faraday is so sad the first time we see him, crying about the wreckage of 815 - maybe lots of them successfully "transport" back to the present time and ooops! they are one of the dead ones. That would explain the 6. I'm just taking the ffws at face value, that they are, in fact, present reality. However, that would mean bringing Aaron back to a time before he was born. So hmm..

[misterwuggles]

After working up my own little ideas about the time difference and the possible barrier surrounding the island, I'm inclined to just go with what the characters tell us instead of worrying over complex theories.

Through Frank (flashback), Hurley (flashforward), and the rest of that crew and their mission, they imply conspiracy with the Oceanic folk. In addition, Frank was positive that the pilot of the plane in the trench wasn't the pilot of 815. That leads me to believe that Oceanic is simply conspiring with someone in order to hide something, and a fake plane in the trench is a part of that.

It sure would be neat though.