Locke Kills Locke

[amccaule]

I wrote this idea a few months back...some of you put some thought into it and others kind of laughed it off. I agree it seemed far fetched. But now with what we've learned about time travel (only through television because most of us aren't scientists) it does seem possible that Locke could in fact kill himself and yet still be alive.
From what I understand from the show is that the island time is circular. The island can travel so far into the future that, in fact, it travels all the way to the beginning again.
When Richard tells Locke that he has to die he doesn't seem that nervous and scared or anything about it. I thought that Richard's crew needed Locke the save the island and be the new savior. If I had to tell the most important meaningful person in my realm they had to die I think I'd be a bit shooken. He seems very relaxed telling John he has to die.
Obviously the losties on the island are going to see 70's Dharma, and Hostiles and all of that this season. In fact I believe that the losties (Juliette, Sawyer, Miles, Daniel, Rose, Bernard) are in fact the orginal hostiles fighting with Richard against Dharma. They are back in the past of the island but they are really in "their future" I think that while our characters are bouncing in the future and past their lives are still in going into their futures. With that being said this is way I think that Locke kills Locke...
Bare with me...After Richard tells Locke he has to die it's forever locked in Locke's head. The island is still shooting around time. Finally it lands on a time when 815 is there. Present-time Locke thinks it's a perfect time to kill (past) Locke when they see each other while Locke is on one of his many many journeys through the jungle. Or when past-locke gets shot by ben and is visited by Walt and told he has work to do, he gets out of the hole runs into FUTURE-Locke. Future Locke kills him, he takes him to Richard, they get his body off the island and into a casket for Jack to see. All the while present-time Locke is alive and well and acts as past Locke (the locke we saw from the point of the Walt scene was in fact future locke...this is how he knew what happens when the freighter gets there.
Now how can Locke kill himself and still be alive. He obviously is alive. Like Daniel said you can't change the past or future.
This hurts my head just typing it. I hope this kind of makes a little sense.

[LOST815]

You have a decent point but I hope that it is not true. I want the writers of Lost to have strict time travel rules. I do not like the concept of alternate realities. If Locke is alive in one reality but dead in another.........that is exactly what we are gonna get. The writers of Heroes have done this repeatedly with disasterous results.

[ortrules]

This would create a huge paradox. Future Locke can't exist if he goes back in time and kills himself. If he kills himself in the past, his future self ceases to exist as well.

[Every 108 Minutes]

Very logical, but i simply think it cannot happen due to some of the rules that have established about time travel. Faraday said that no matter what they do while they're jumping through time they will fail every time they try to change the events that have already happened. If Locke tried to confront and kill his past self, he would fail to do so.

[XmasDVD]

You have a decent point but I hope that it is not true. I want the writers of Lost to have strict time travel rules. I do not like the concept of alternate realities. If Locke is alive in one reality but dead in another.........that is exactly what we are gonna get. The writers of Heroes have done this repeatedly with disasterous results.


..and that's why we gave up on Heroes =- they ruined a great show. I hope they don't do that here too..

[Almal3xia]

The idea of not being able to change the future is reinforced when Desmond is shown by Faraday's mother(?) that the man in the red shoes dies no matter what.
My thoughts are, if that man were to live another day, another hour, he would experience more things in his life. He would meet more people. He would experience a different life. Thereby still changing his future- the future. How many times did this happen to Locke? How many times did it seem like he should die, though he didnt? Thats why Richard said he had to die- maybe someone/something over the course of his life (from his prenatal birth and all of those complications to present) was not only trying to kill him, but someone else/something else was trying to stop that from happening. That someone/something knew he would die eventually, but they just had to keep him alive long enough to get him to the island.

Anyway, back on point. Locke's death, I think, is exactly what the island wanted. Christian has more "mobility" now that he is dead. Hid body had to be brought back to the island for him to have the presence that he does and be able to go the places he does (the freighter with Michael, Jack's future office)- I dont know why, but whatever. Theoretically, the same may go for Locke. His body has to be brought back to the island after he died in "real time" somewhere other than the island in order for him to have the "mobility" and presence that he needs to counter whatever bad things are happening/going to happen, just like Christian.

Wasnt there something somewhere in another show or movie (I know, super obscure and vague) that it was described that god and satan would one day attempt to control the world and we would be caught in the middle of it? Could this be some sort of grand scheme idea like that with Locke as the "savior?" ....Does anyone know what Im talking about?


...my head hurts

[Brother Desmond]

Also, Locke does make it off the Island in the guise of Jeremy Bentham in an attempt to persuade the 06 into coming back to the Island. He can't kill himself on the Island and still somehow make it off the Island to visit the O6. Not to mention that paradox Locke killing himself creates.

[Primax]

Also, Locke does make it off the Island in the guise of Jeremy Bentham in an attempt to persuade the 06 into coming back to the Island. He can't kill himself on the Island and still somehow make it off the Island to visit the O6. Not to mention that paradox Locke killing himself creates.

Unless time off the island is actually imaginary time.

[lostie108]

Unless time off the island is actually imaginary time.

what ? lmao

[lostie108]

This would create a huge paradox. Future Locke can't exist if he goes back in time and kills himself. If he kills himself in the past, his future self ceases to exist as well.

EXACTLY , RIGHT .

[salty222]

It seems this is what your describing.

Remember in Back to the future, the present Marty Mcfly went back in time. Then he went back to the present, only to find another Marty Mcfly in his original place. Remember the scene where he is watching himself and Doc? Then Doc gets shot, and Marty takes off in the Deliorian?

Is this the kind of time travel we are seeing on Lost? Where "2" Lockes could exist at the same time? As well as "2" Richards, Bens, etc?

But in that theory it would almost seem that whenever you travel back in time you would create another person???

So the marty mcfly that the 2nd marty mcfly seen went back in time. Than that marty mcfly would come back in time to see the 2nd marty mcfly watching the original marty mcfly, and thus himself being the 3rd marty mcfly??

So in essence everytime a time jump happens it would create an additional character.

I have a hard time concentrating at work these days.

[amccaule]

Also, Locke does make it off the Island in the guise of Jeremy Bentham in an attempt to persuade the 06 into coming back to the Island. He can't kill himself on the Island and still somehow make it off the Island to visit the O6. Not to mention that paradox Locke killing himself creates.

But because of the time jumping we don't know what Locke got off the island. It could be the future Locke. He is missing for quite a bit during the 4th season

[Dreamingwolf]

they have already established that bodies dont time travel only the conciousness does. Remember Faradays experiment the rat never went anywhere, it just woke up from being in the future learning how to run the maze.

Its that switching of conciousness that causes the subjects brains to have aneurysms under the stress of trying to figure out what the hell is going on.

[Guardllama]

but the survivors travel to a time where their camp wasnt built, if it was their consciousness travelling, they would have to have been physically there in the past (Juliette is the only one we know that could have been)

[Dreamingwolf]

but the survivors travel to a time where their camp wasnt built, if it was their consciousness travelling, they would have to have been physically there in the past (Juliette is the only one we know that could have been)

I agree and I think in those instances where they are in a time they never have existed in a simulacrum is formed or they exist as a visible poltergeist or possibly just as visible ghosts.

Take for instance the bernards futile efforts at making fire, perhaps he was unable to do a feat that he knows he can do cause he isnt really there. Ive been trying to noodle a time an "appearance" of a character actually effected anything on a complex level. Walt, Christian, Anna Lucia, and even Eko playing chess with Hugo(for all we know Hugo was making the moves for Eko). They all appear, they all communicate, but they dont do much more than that.

Sure some of them got hit by arrows and died, and the arrows actually stuck to them and they twisted arround. Even sawyers thorn in the paw thing last week could all be explained by a poltergiest or even more clear a simulacrum. So far one thing is clear the two time periods(if not more) are not in a time they have existed in.

Now if you goto a time where you did exist, the host bodies switch conciousness(example desmond in the constant, Minkowski and the lab rat). This could neatly explain charlottes confusion. Minkowski went to a time in the med lab where he never existed and his body was in a sleep state and when he returned he said he was on a ferris wheel. The rat when sent into the future was in a sleep state till it returned. Desmond however when he was bouncing back and forth was remaining in his own vessle, only switching conciousness.

Ok I think I broke my own theory there, cause desmond would sleep in one of his instances while he was shifting. I still think I am on to something.

[Lenae7]

It seems this is what your describing.

Remember in Back to the future, the present Marty Mcfly went back in time. Then he went back to the present, only to find another Marty Mcfly in his original place. Remember the scene where he is watching himself and Doc? Then Doc gets shot, and Marty takes off in the Deliorian?

Is this the kind of time travel we are seeing on Lost? Where "2" Lockes could exist at the same time? As well as "2" Richards, Bens, etc?

But in that theory it would almost seem that whenever you travel back in time you would create another person???

So the marty mcfly that the 2nd marty mcfly seen went back in time. Than that marty mcfly would come back in time to see the 2nd marty mcfly watching the original marty mcfly, and thus himself being the 3rd marty mcfly??

So in essence everytime a time jump happens it would create an additional character.

I have a hard time concentrating at work these days.

Hmmm, multiple Sawyers (evil grin):p

[amccaule]

I know a lot of people have said that Locke CAN'T kill himself because it would cause craziness in the future but... what about all of the losties that were just killed by the "others." Neal shot in the chest, other peole getting arrows through their backs...Aren't those people still going to crash on 815? They were all just killed in the past but they all still crashed on the island. HOW?

[Brother Desmond]

I know a lot of people have said that Locke CAN'T kill himself because it would cause craziness in the future but... what about all of the losties that were just killed by the "others." Neal shot in the chest, other peole getting arrows through their backs...Aren't those people still going to crash on 815? They were all just killed in the past but they all still crashed on the island. HOW?

Because they already crashed. 815 crashed September 22, 2004. The Island moved some time in early January 2005. From there it has been skipping, like a record. Frogurt is killed on the Island in 1954. The Island has gone back in time, but the rest of the world has not. Frogurt doesn't need to stay alive in order to board a plane in 2004, he already has.