Says Charlie Widmore: I am my own grandpa

[skatertsol]

Yea. That's right I'm throwing it out there, Desmond and Penny go to island w/ baby Charlie, engage in a time travel sequence of there own, are killed, and Charlie Widmore is raised on the island. I haven't worked out all the kinks yet....maybe something happened when he was old enough to remember, or someone that was on the island told him it was his father's fault they came to the island to perish, so he takes his mother's last name and grows resentful of his daughter falling for a man with a name like....Desmond...it's all too familiar for him hence his hatred of Des. Ok my theory is perfect...ly flawed I know but hey it could happen?

[Unbridled Pageantry]

I don't know how they'll get around the details of it, but I do like the idea of Charlie being Charles Widmore.

As crazy as it is.

[skatertsol]

I don't know how they'll get around the details of it, but I do like the idea of Charlie being Charles Widmore.

As crazy as it is.


it's sick but entertaining right? and it would explain a lot. I've been thinking of this more and more....it would explain why he's so bitter...I mean, he's his own grandpa....hello?! And he would have such a direct tie with the island..... And I keep thinking there is more to his relationship with Ben....I mean, Ben's not really supposed to be in charge of anything, it shows thru his early "jealous" tendencies with Locke, and he's hatching up some kind of evil plan to get himself back to the island that "won't let him come back" so whats the deal with him and Widmore....and is if Widmore is Desmond's Charlie how does that tie into his relationship/rivalry with Ben?

[Unbridled Pageantry]

it's sick but entertaining right? and it would explain a lot. I've been thinking of this more and more....it would explain why he's so bitter...I mean, he's his own grandpa....hello?! And he would have such a direct tie with the island..... And I keep thinking there is more to his relationship with Ben....I mean, Ben's not really supposed to be in charge of anything, it shows thru his early "jealous" tendencies with Locke, and he's hatching up some kind of evil plan to get himself back to the island that "won't let him come back" so whats the deal with him and Widmore....and is if Widmore is Desmond's Charlie how does that tie into his relationship/rivalry with Ben?

One of the things I thought of too was the statue. It's of Widmore with fourn toes because of his time travelling incest. When Ben "stole" the island he knocked it into the ocean.

Just and even crazier thought. :)

[bunnydixon]

sick i tells ya!

[krakup]

sick i tells ya!

tis against God himself

[hunter8768]

Sick, yes, but possible!

He is leading them to LA where the rest of the O6 are. Oh yeah, and Ben. Remember, that is where Daniel's Mother is. Widmore gave him her address. It just happens to be in LA. Coincidence? I don't know.

[ortrules]

Wow. Just wow.

I guess I'll bite. Desmond and Penny are now married. Because of their great love for each other, it's likely that they are now Mr. and Mrs. Hume, and I can't imagine Penny wants to keep her last name after all that's happened. So little Charlie is Charlie Hume - not Charlie Widmore.

Judging by the way Penny resents her father, they probably don't talk about him much in front of the boy, and he likely doesn't know much about the Widmore family. So at which point in time does he make a dramatic shift from Charlie Hume to Charlie Widmore? It makes no sense.

[notsolost42]

It's just plain sick and disgusting. What kind of a mind do you have, anyway to even have a thought like that cross it? Yuck!!!! LOL!!!! Okay, I am coming down a little hard but it is really gross when you think about it!!! Besides, it would be a paradox and you know TPTB will have none of that!

[bunnydixon]

im beginning to wonder if the so called PTB have confuddled themselves with it all as much as they have muddled us!!

[islander]

Just say NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wecanbesaved]

Yea. That's right I'm throwing it out there, Desmond and Penny go to island w/ baby Charlie, engage in a time travel sequence of there own, are killed, and Charlie Widmore is raised on the island. I haven't worked out all the kinks yet....maybe something happened when he was old enough to remember, or someone that was on the island told him it was his father's fault they came to the island to perish, so he takes his mother's last name and grows resentful of his daughter falling for a man with a name like....Desmond...it's all too familiar for him hence his hatred of Des. Ok my theory is perfect...ly flawed I know but hey it could happen?

I'm with ya on this!

Sure, it's not the prettiest of theories, but it's not like Penny is her own mother or something. Now that would be gross. The only reason Widmore would be his own grandfather is because of the time-traveling. The way they're going, Des and Penny and Charlie will end up on the island again, and if that island is back in time, then I think it's perfectly feasible that Charlie is Charles Widmore.

I said in another thread that it would make sense as to why all of sudden it seems that Widmore cares about Penny's safety over everything, because if somehow he thinks or knows that weird little detail about himself, it's really more about keeping little him safe, so he doesn't die. No little Widmore, no older Widmore. It would be in keeping with him being the so-called villain as well.

I see people complain about how this theory is gross, but did you all forget the little (or really big) crush Boone had on Shannon? His step-sister? Hello? They may not have been blood related but they're still FAMILY! The writers didn't seem to have any problem writing that into the story, why not this?

[Brother Desmond]

Charles Widmore being his own grandfather would create an alternate time line, and that can't happen. We know that time is like a street, in the show. The characters can move backwards and forward on the street, but they can't create a new street.

Desmond and Penny's son Charlie seems to be around a year old, so that means he was born about two years after Desmond got off the Island. Let's say around 2007, for the sake of argument.

Now, Desmond, Penny and Charlie haven't even gone to the Island yet, we don't even know if they will. If young Charlie hasn't yet gone back to the Island, and the Island hasn't yet gone back in time with Charlie on it, how could Charles Widmore grow to the age he has, and have his memories of the Island if he hasn't even been on it yet? How could Charles Widmore grow up on the Island, get off, build a life for himself if he hasn't yet been on the Island? It is impossible.

[ortrules]

I said in another thread that it would make sense as to why all of sudden it seems that Widmore cares about Penny's safety over everything, because if somehow he thinks or knows that weird little detail about himself, it's really more about keeping little him safe, so he doesn't die. No little Widmore, no older Widmore. It would be in keeping with him being the so-called villain as well.

I don't get it. You think this is the reason Widmore cares about Penny - and not something like, oh, she's his daughter? Regardless of his status as "evil" or whatever, he loves his daughter and he wants to protect her and he wants the best for her. If anything, he's overprotective. But it's because Penny is his daughter.

[skatertsol]

I'm with ya on this!

Sure, it's not the prettiest of theories, but it's not like Penny is her own mother or something. Now that would be gross. The only reason Widmore would be his own grandfather is because of the time-traveling. The way they're going, Des and Penny and Charlie will end up on the island again, and if that island is back in time, then I think it's perfectly feasible that Charlie is Charles Widmore.

I said in another thread that it would make sense as to why all of sudden it seems that Widmore cares about Penny's safety over everything, because if somehow he thinks or knows that weird little detail about himself, it's really more about keeping little him safe, so he doesn't die. No little Widmore, no older Widmore. It would be in keeping with him being the so-called villain as well.

I see people complain about how this theory is gross, but did you all forget the little (or really big) crush Boone had on Shannon? His step-sister? Hello? They may not have been blood related but they're still FAMILY! The writers didn't seem to have any problem writing that into the story, why not this?

thank you!!! LoL I make my great come back to the forum as a complete sicko, thanks for being w/ me on this. Ok so I see there are some flaws, as someone mentioned, with the plane of existence (or street I think someone called it) that everything happens on, that it can't be altered. But who's the ONE person that has had there timeline altered...whos the ONE person who woke up in the middle of the nite by that alteration and made the decision to go back to the island.....Drumroll....yes...Desmond, lil Charlie's dad. Ok and my other theory is that Widmore and Ellie (ELOISE!?!?) had an illegitmate love child named Daniel Faraday...coincidentally the same person who knocked on Desmond's hatch and put the memory there in the first place. Wrap your mindn around that one :)

[Jeremy]

Well, I don't see why not. I don't see how it could create a paradox when everything else seems to be going in a loop; the compass, Daniel getting Ellie interested in time travel just so she can teach him all about it in the future, etc.

[Unbridled Pageantry]

Charles Widmore being his own grandfather would create an alternate time line, and that can't happen. We know that time is like a street, in the show. The characters can move backwards and forward on the street, but they can't create a new street.

But what if it's not a new street, what if it's the same street that's always been. This might have always been Widmore's path.

[Brother Desmond]

But what if it's not a new street, what if it's the same street that's always been. This might have always been Widmore's path.

It still isn't possible. If young Charlie is Charles Widmore, how did older Charles get to the Island and grow older before young Charlie was even born? How did older Charles Widmore help concieve a daughter before he was born?

[skatertsol]

It still isn't possible. If young Charlie is Charles Widmore, how did older Charles get to the Island and grow older before young Charlie was even born? How did older Charles Widmore help concieve a daughter before he was born?

my whole theory hinges on the possibility that Des and fam return to the island in a time jumping sequence, back even before we see young Charlie, so before the 50's. Something happens to Des and Penny, and Charlie is raised by Richard Alpert and/or the other Others that don't age. He's taught by Richard or the other Others or whoever's raising him who his father and mother were, which is how he picks up the last name Widmore. He grows up on the island, where we see him in last week's episode, and is bitter, as we see in last week's episode, as are most orphaned.motherless children in the middle of an island that has as many mysteries as this one does. (Have you met Ben....) somehow he gets off the island impreganates Penny's mother and has Penny and it's a circular effect. I'm no rocket scientist so of course it's flawed it's just an idea :)

[Brother Desmond]

my whole theory hinges on the possibility that Des and fam return to the island in a time jumping sequence, back even before we see young Charlie, so before the 50's. Something happens to Des and Penny, and Charlie is raised by Richard Alpert and/or the other Others that don't age. He's taught by Richard or the other Others or whoever's raising him who his father and mother were, which is how he picks up the last name Widmore. He grows up on the island, where we see him in last week's episode, and is bitter, as we see in last week's episode, as are most orphaned.motherless children in the middle of an island that has as many mysteries as this one does. (Have you met Ben....) somehow he gets off the island impreganates Penny's mother and has Penny and it's a circular effect. I'm no rocket scientist so of course it's flawed it's just an idea :)

I understand what you are saying, but the fact that Charles Widmore, Penny's father, exists at the same time as young Charlie Hume disproves it.

For your theory to work Charlie Hume must be on the Island at sometime before the 50's. We know for a fact that Charlie Hume thus far has not been on the Island. We also know for a fact that Charles Widmore was on the Island in 1954. The fact that Charles Widmore existed before Charlie Hume was ever on the Island proves that they are not the same person.

[Jeremy]

It still isn't possible. If young Charlie is Charles Widmore, how did older Charles get to the Island and grow older before young Charlie was even born? How did older Charles Widmore help concieve a daughter before he was born?

I don't see what you're getting at here. This is how I would see the timeline of events:

2005 - Charlie Hume is born.
2007 - Desmond, Penny, Charlie, and the O6 go to the island.
Before 1954 - Assuming they end up in this time when they land or crash or shipwreck, etc.
194Something - Desmond and Penny become Adam and Eve. Charlie is raised by the Others.
1954 - Meets Locke, Juliet, etc.
196Something - Turns his back on the Others for some reason or another. Perhaps he helps the military create Dharma.
197Something - Leaves the island. Perhaps he had to turn the wheel.
Between 1970 and 1990 - Finds a spouse to have Penny with.
1996 - Buys Black Rock journal. Gives Desmond Penny's address.
2005 - Meeting with Ben in "The Shape of Things to Come."
2007 - Gives Desmond Faraday's mother's address.

[Unbridled Pageantry]

For your theory to work Charlie Hume must be on the Island at sometime before the 50's. We know for a fact that Charlie Hume thus far has not been on the Island. We also know for a fact that Charles Widmore was on the Island in 1954. The fact that Charles Widmore existed before Charlie Hume was ever on the Island proves that they are not the same person.

Young Charlie Hume could be on the island before he was born the exact same way the John Locke is on the island before he's born.

What's the difference between Locke being on the island before he's born, and the possibility of Widmore being on the island before he's born?

[Unbridled Pageantry]

Ok, I see what your saing Brother Desmond.
If Charlie is born in 07, and then goes back to conceive Penny; who conceived Penny the first time to start it all.
I stand corrected. :)

[Jeremy]

Ok, I see what your saing Brother Desmond.
If Charlie is born in 07, and then goes back to conceive Penny; who conceived Penny the first time to start it all.
I stand corrected. :)

But that doesn't stop it from happening. So far as we know, Richard's compass does not have a beginning nor an ending. It is stuck in an endless loop.

[Brother Desmond]

Young Charlie Hume could be on the island before he was born the exact same way the John Locke is on the island before he's born.

What's the difference between Locke being on the island before he's born, and the possibility of Widmore being on the island before he's born?

Locke could be on the Island before he was born because Locke was physically on the Island when it traveled to 1954.

In 2007, Charlie Hume hadn't yet been on the Island, that is if he even goes to the Island at all. We know he is going to LA with Desmond and Penny, we don't even know if he will ever go to the Island. In 2007 we also see an aged Charles Widmore. If young Charlie Hume is in fact Charles Widmore, there would be no Charles Widmore in 2007, because Charlie Hume had not yet gone to the Island to go through the timeline of events we assume Charles Widmore goes through.

[ortrules]

But that doesn't stop it from happening. So far as we know, Richard's compass does not have a beginning nor an ending. It is stuck in an endless loop.

"So far as we know" being the key here. I think we'll be seeing the compass loose ends tied up in an upcoming episode.

Maybe the compass gets destroyed and Richard builds a replica. Maybe now that Locke went to 1954 to see Richard, Richard has two compasses. Who knows.

[gingergrant]

maybe Des and Penny are "adam and eve" and get left on the island and little Charlie Widmore was raised by Big Charles Widmore!
oh, whoops, I just read more and saw that this was hypothesized already. Still think that it could work though.

[skatertsol]

maybe Des and Penny are "adam and eve" and get left on the island and little Charlie Widmore was raised by Big Charles Widmore!
oh, whoops, I just read more and saw that this was hypothesized already. Still think that it could work though.

yeah I've thought about that too, them being Adam and Eve. Which would be totally whacked because we know when Sawyer and Kate find the skeleton, Desmond is in the hatch and-if it were him-at the bottom of the pond too. Weird weird weird.

[00sco200]

[QUOTE=skatertsol;137544]Yea. That's right I'm throwing it out there, Desmond and Penny go to island w/ baby Charlie, engage in a time travel sequence of there own, are killed, and Charlie Widmore is raised on the island. I haven't worked out all the kinks yet....maybe something happened when he was old enough to remember, or someone that was on the island told him it was his father's fault they came to the island to perish, so he takes his mother's last name and grows resentful of his daughter falling for a man with a name like....Desmond...it's all too familiar for him hence his hatred of Des. Ok my theory is perfect...ly flawed I know but hey it could happen?[/QUOTE

i dont see how they could explain all this

[LockeFan]

I think this theory could work out. And they could explain it, it might take an entire episode, but they could definitely explain it. And if this turns out what is what happened, then it would be really eerie...but awesome. Especially the adam and eve part.

[skatertsol]

[QUOTE=skatertsol;137544]Yea. That's right I'm throwing it out there, Desmond and Penny go to island w/ baby Charlie, engage in a time travel sequence of there own, are killed, and Charlie Widmore is raised on the island. I haven't worked out all the kinks yet....maybe something happened when he was old enough to remember, or someone that was on the island told him it was his father's fault they came to the island to perish, so he takes his mother's last name and grows resentful of his daughter falling for a man with a name like....Desmond...it's all too familiar for him hence his hatred of Des. Ok my theory is perfect...ly flawed I know but hey it could happen?[/QUOTE

i dont see how they could explain all this

....I totally explained it didn't I? Come on....You don't buy it ? lol ;)

[tyrantchef]

There is a similar scenario in the movie Terminator. John Connor of the future sends a soldier back in time to protect his mother in the past. That man then impregnated Sarah Connor. Thus, John sends his own father back in time to concieve himself, creating a seemingly impossibble time loop.

[00sco200]

if this is how it turns out to be, or if the losties are all supossed to have been on the island previously before the crash or if many of the theories running about on this site end up in the show ( polar bears turning the wheel *rolls eyes*) i will be very disapointed.

[00sco200]

ok i get it................NOT!!!!!

how could little Charlie be Widmore??? how can Penny be Widmore's daughter and little Charlies mum???

who came first Penny or Widmore???
......................... (chicken) or (egg)
........................ (egg) or (chicken)

[Jeremy]

Why would it be disapointing? It's been something I've been expecting. Repetition is a pretty big theme in the show. And seeing as to how only Desmond can change things, that'll make him more important.

[skatertsol]

Why would it be disapointing? It's been something I've been expecting. Repetition is a pretty big theme in the show. And seeing as to how only Desmond can change things, that'll make him more important.


I don't think so either. I mean...As many theories as there are that are out there, as many connections in literature, mythology, religion, time travel, on and on and on...It's gotta end somehow. right? right. No matter how they end the show there are going to be those disappointed. Personally, I doubt that Charlie's his own grandfather. I mean, it could happen, I'm not going to be disappointed if it happens (may pat myself on the back actually) but the only way I would be disappointed at the show's ending if it's all Hurley's imagination, which I think we've already been told it's not. And polar bears at the wheel. Osco, what ending wouldn't disappoint you just out of curiosity? I think there is another thread going somewhere like that so all apologies if you've already answered

[00sco200]

i would like an ending that would just shock me to the core, something that nobody would think would happen.

remember when you first watched SAW? (if you have seen it) you never expected an ending like that, nor the ending to any of the sequils. its the endings to things that make them soooo good and make them stand out from the rest.

[skatertsol]

i would like an ending that would just shock me to the core, something that nobody would think would happen.

remember when you first watched SAW? (if you have seen it) you never expected an ending like that, nor the ending to any of the sequils. its the endings to things that make them soooo good and make them stand out from the rest.

Ok A.) Sorry that WAS your thread about how would you like to see Lost end and

B.) not sorry b/c you are comparing SAW to how you want lost to end!!!??? LoL yikes. jk I just never would have put Lost and Saw in the same conversation :)

[00sco200]

Ok A.) Sorry that WAS your thread about how would you like to see Lost end and

B.) not sorry b/c you are comparing SAW to how you want lost to end!!!??? LoL yikes. jk I just never would have put Lost and Saw in the same conversation :)

it was the first thinh that came into my head with a real SHOCK ending