About The time flashes

[Archangel-Player]

What are your thoughts on how our losties encounter people in the past? Do you think the instabt Dan spoke to Des in the past it stuck with him or do you think it wasn`t untill 2007 the moment he woke up. That it was that point he experinced that memorie for the first time ever?

I option my second guess. The reason being. It seemed new to Des as if this was the first time in 7 yrs that he was able to recalled he spoke to Dan 7 yrs ago on the island. It`s truely amazing how time works espicaly in LOST. It took 7 yrs for Des to realize that memorie.

Please take note that this is stricly my opion from what Iv obvserved from LOST.

[krakup]

Archangel

I option my second guess. The reason being. It seemed new to Des as if this was the first time in 7 yrs that he was able to recalled he spoke to Dan 7 yrs ago on the island. It`s truely amazing how time works espicaly in LOST. It took 7 yrs for Des to realize that memorie.




i'm trying to get use to it. so if we apply it to rosseau and jin and they have a conversation, jin tells her things *BAM* her future self is going to know this. like how she mysteriously appears to the losties throughout the show sometimes is connected?

[Beckstabber]

i'm trying to get use to it. so if we apply it to rosseau and jin and they have a conversation, jin tells her things *BAM* her future self is going to know this. like how she mysteriously appears to the losties throughout the show sometimes is connected?

I don't think that can happen. Remember Dan said that Desmond was special and immune to the rules of time travel. So unless Rousseau is special as well, then Jin won't have any effect.

[Jeremy]

I think that because the rules don't apply to Desmond, he can change the past, and thus create "memories" for himself and perhaps others as well. But changing the past comes with the risk of messing things up, which is why others cannot break the rules, and why there's course correction.

[navyguy]

Well think about this....We don't know how much time Russeau spends with Jin in the past...Then the crash is a whole 20 years later. Is it possible that she just doesn't remember?

I can tell you this...I spent 8 weeks with 70 other men in one big room in bootcamp 5.5 years ago...I would not recognize a one of them right now if i walked by them (i know this cuz people from bootcamp have recognized me, but not me them until they showed me). Maybe Russeau just doesn't remember Jin.

[krakup]

ahh yes ok i forgot about des being uniquely special

[Guardllama]

if this is true (people dont receive the memories till it happens) think of it like this, you could have been visited by someone from the year 2012 but wont realise till it gets to 2012 and they go back and implant the memory, so you only get the memory when you get to 2012.

now applied to desmond, he suddenly got the memory in the 3 years into future storyline (2007) when by this theory he should have got it in 2005 (when Dan went back and created the memory)

[Archangel-Player]

if this is true (people dont receive the memories till it happens) think of it like this, you could have been visited by someone from the year 2012 but wont realise till it gets to 2012 and they go back and implant the memory, so you only get the memory when you get to 2012.

now applied to desmond, he suddenly got the memory in the 3 years into future storyline (2007) when by this theory he should have got it in 2005 (when Dan went back and created the memory)
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See that`s what I think was crazy. Des should have remeberd Dan`s conversation all thoese yrs. But it seemed to me it wasn`t untill 2007 that he could recall the conversation. Thats why I think A higher power had A hand in that memorie. Time wouldn`t let Des remember that conversation untill the time was right. When he was ready. 4-5 yrs later.

[Amp]

Arg Archangel your typing hurts my Eyes!

I think he only remembers it then is because it didn't happen till the present, let me show you what I mean.

The Island is like a skipping record. We know this. But it is still on the turntable. To everyone in the world, and to them they are in the present still. While the island is skipping back and forth. So when Dan tells Des the message, he sais it in the present while past Des hears it, so present Des remembers it then, at the same time Past DES hears it and implants it into his brain.

[Archangel-Player]

Why does my writing hurt your eyes? Does it come in Neon yellow or High beam Halogen?

[bERDs dINi]

Archangel




i'm trying to get use to it. so if we apply it to rosseau and jin and they have a conversation, jin tells her things *BAM* her future self is going to know this. like how she mysteriously appears to the losties throughout the show sometimes is connected?

well since it wasnt until 2007 until Des remembered he met Dan, so Im going to say its safe to say that it'd be 2007 if Rousseau were to remember, this would be impossible because she died before the O6 left the Island.

[lost-a-lot]

That Hatch meeting took place during the span of time Desmond skipped while he & Dan established the cause and effect of their linearly first meeting. You shouldn’t be able to remember something that hasn’t been caused to happen. That's why Desmond didn't recognize Daniel at the Hatch.

The thing is Desmond's Dan-specific '96-'04 memory gap should have persisted even beyond '04.

It was probably just for dramatic effect that he gained the memory in '07, which is OK with me. His insights seem to be random anyway. For now.

[Archangel-Player]

That Hatch meeting took place during the span of time Desmond skipped while he & Dan established the cause and effect of their linearly first meeting. You shouldn’t be able to remember something that hasn’t been caused to happen. That's why Desmond didn't recognize Daniel at the Hatch.

The thing is Desmond's Dan-specific '96-'04 memory gap should have persisted even beyond '04.

It was probably just for dramatic effect that he gained the memory in '07, which is OK with me. His insights seem to be random anyway. For now.

So let me hear this clear. Im reading your saying that Des had the memorie since 2004. It was just triggred as A long LOST memorie in 2007? Is that right?

[ortrules]

I believe that Desmond always knew Daniel visited him in the hatch and told him - I do not believe a memory was suddenly planted inside Desmond.

There was something else very revealing about this episode, but it was so minor that it went unnoticed. Desmond went to Oxford and had the lady look up Dan and she had no records of him. She asked Desmond when he last visited with Dan and Desmond couldn't remember when that was - which was during 1996 and Desmond's constant time travel experience. The big key was that he couldn't even remember the date when he met with Dan and Dan essentially saved his life.

I believe that Desmond always had the memory but it was stored somewhere in his subconscious and he just didn't remember. It may also deal somewhat with course correction and the island's control - doesn't it seem like a huge coincidence that Desmond suddenly remembers this memory when Ben and the O'6 are gathering to get back to this island? Could that be a way of course correcting events to ensure Desmond goes back with them too?

[msmith92]

And I guess Des is special due to the whole button / explosion thingy?

[ortrules]

And I guess Des is special due to the whole button / explosion thingy?

I'm holding off on the Desmond being special thing until we find out what the "rules" are. Dan simply said that he's special because the rules don't apply to him, but what are these rules?

Are they the same rules Ben and Widmore discussed? The same rules Pierre Chang discussed?

[persistentlylost]

Desmond and Daniel's encounter is different that the other encounters. In their encounter they changed history. They made something happen that didn't...so desmond didn't remember until it happened. Locke's encounter with Richard, etc., happened before. We know that is true because Richard finds Locke as a child and has the compass. We don't know if Jin and Rouseau are making history, or if it happened in the past....but I bet they are not making history.

I think it is a mistake to use Desmond as an example of what is happening to everyone else. In Flashes Before Your Eyes Desmond's consciousness went back in time to when he was with Penny, but he knew about the island. He tried to change his path and was taught the rules by Ms. Hawking. At the end he broke up with Penny and joined the army. From the end of that episode on he did not retain consciousness of the island and future. We know that because his consciousness during his time in the army jumped forward when he left the island for the freighter. If he had retained the knowledge he would not have been confused on the freighter. I don't really understand any of this. I'm just saying we should not appply what happened to Desmond to anyone else. Rouseau, Widmore, Richard, Ethan and anyone else who ran into the losties during their time travels experienced it as it happened and remember it from that time. Their consciousness does not become aware of it in 2007.

[StormyKnight]

Desmond and Daniel's encounter is different that the other encounters. In their encounter they changed history. They made something happen that didn't...so desmond didn't remember until it happened. Locke's encounter with Richard, etc., happened before. We know that is true because Richard finds Locke as a child and has the compass. We don't know if Jin and Rouseau are making history, or if it happened in the past....but I bet they are not making history.


I agree- Daniel said what has happened in the past can not be changed; however, he DOES change the past by interacting with Des. Since we have seen how Des got on the island and we know his backstory, Daniel wasn't at the hatch before (unless they are hiding that fact but for now I'll go on the assumption that it never happened before). So it's a new event. When it happens, the conversation or memory (as Des called it) rippled through time to the present. Thus he now has that information that Daniel gave him years earlier.

[notsolost42]

I truly think that Desmond did not recall Dan's visit until 2007 because that was when Dan went back to the earlier period and banged on the Swan door. In other words, it happened in real time 2007 but in island time it was before 2004. I think that is what makes Desmond so special. One can go back in time to see him and his present day persona will have the memory. I am beginning to believe you have to work on two different time lines at the moment that are running parallel. Something like that. It's as though time were split for Desmond.

[Archangel-Player]

I believe that Desmond always knew Daniel visited him in the hatch and told him - I do not believe a memory was suddenly planted inside Desmond.

There was something else very revealing about this episode, but it was so minor that it went unnoticed. Desmond went to Oxford and had the lady look up Dan and she had no records of him. She asked Desmond when he last visited with Dan and Desmond couldn't remember when that was - which was during 1996 and Desmond's constant time travel experience. The big key was that he couldn't even remember the date when he met with Dan and Dan essentially saved his life.

I believe that Desmond always had the memory but it was stored somewhere in his subconscious and he just didn't remember. It may also deal somewhat with course correction and the island's control - doesn't it seem like a huge coincidence that Desmond suddenly remembers this memory when Ben and the O'6 are gathering to get back to this island? Could that be a way of course correcting events to ensure Desmond goes back with them too?

That was pretty much where I was getting at. The way I see it` The memorie was always there since it orignated on the island. But time wouldn`t allow him to recall it untill the time was right. Which would be 2007.

[ortrules]

I truly think that Desmond did not recall Dan's visit until 2007 because that was when Dan went back to the earlier period and banged on the Swan door. In other words, it happened in real time 2007 but in island time it was before 2004. I think that is what makes Desmond so special. One can go back in time to see him and his present day persona will have the memory. I am beginning to believe you have to work on two different time lines at the moment that are running parallel. Something like that. It's as though time were split for Desmond.

But the present island time is early 2005 and Desmond remembered this event in 2008. I don't think they are running parallel to each other.

The O'6 have been off the island for 3 years but Locke, Sawyer, Juliet and company just witnessed the wheel being turned and the freighter blowing up a few days ago.

[notsolost42]

But the present island time is early 2005 and Desmond remembered this event in 2008. I don't think they are running parallel to each other.

The O'6 have been off the island for 3 years but Locke, Sawyer, Juliet and company just witnessed the wheel being turned and the freighter blowing up a few days ago.

Right, because there are two time lines. Real world time and island time. Two different things at two different rates. It's either that or Locke, et al, have been time jumping on the island for three years worth of real time! A trick of the mind by TPTB!!!

[ortrules]

Right, because there are two time lines. Real world time and island time. Two different things at two different rates. It's either that or Locke, et al, have been time jumping on the island for three years worth of real time! A trick of the mind by TPTB!!!

There are not two different timelines - just one.

Let us consider that what is happening on the island is the present time like it has always been. And then we'll just say that what the O'6 is going through is simply a series of flash forwards. It is all in the same timeline, it's just that one story is happening 3 years in the future (flash forward) while the other story is happening in the present (the island).

Plus, if you were add up how much time the island travelers have experienced during the time travel, it would be a day or two total - maybe 3 or 4 days at most.

[notsolost42]

There are not two different timelines - just one.

Let us consider that what is happening on the island is the present time like it has always been. And then we'll just say that what the O'6 is going through is simply a series of flash forwards. It is all in the same timeline, it's just that one story is happening 3 years in the future (flash forward) while the other story is happening in the present (the island).

Plus, if you were add up how much time the island travelers have experienced during the time travel, it would be a day or two total - maybe 3 or 4 days at most.

So then, by that you are saying that Locke and company have been dancing through spacetime for three years? And you expect them to be sane when the 06 get back? LOL!!! No, Mrs. Hawking said 70 hours because that's what they have. It didn't take her three years to figure it out. It didn't take three years for them to figure out that they have to go back. IDK!

[ortrules]

So then, by that you are saying that Locke and company have been dancing through spacetime for three years? And you expect them to be sane when the 06 get back? LOL!!! No, Mrs. Hawking said 70 hours because that's what they have. It didn't take her three years to figure it out. It didn't take three years for them to figure out that they have to go back. IDK!

That's not what I'm saying at all. As we are now discussing the same topic on two different threads, I am going to refer you to my latest point in the other thread and leave this one go.

[lost-a-lot]

So let me hear this clear. Im reading your saying that Des had the memorie since 2004. It was just triggred as A long LOST memorie in 2007? Is that right?

Sorry for the delayed reply. I wish I had more time to post. :o

Well, what I mean to say is that it’s impossible for Des to ever remember meeting Dan at the Swan door. At least, I think so.

Just to expound… Desmond’s ’04 mind was absent when Dan told Des’ ’96 mind to go meet him in Oxford. It couldn’t gain new memories based on what its earlier version was doing. So, Des’ memory gap relating to Dan should persist through the small space of time in ’04 in which his ’96 mind was popping in and out of his ’04 body. That’s how it ought to be, I think. Of course, Desmond’s “special,” so…

The flashes that Desmond has of things that normal people can’t see seem to be random. I see no particular reason for his realizing the memory when he did. He might have recovered it at any time. Heck, with his gift, he might even have recognized Daniel at the Swan to begin with. But the way they did it is plausible, based on what we’ve seen from Desmond so far, and the way they did it makes for better storytelling.

Something to chew on: If Desmond is breaking causal rules by remembering his meeting with Daniel, the "memory" is technically a vision of the future.

[smthng2dowthlost]

I think technically it's still in the past. dan came from the future to desmonds past. Right?

[lost-a-lot]

Oh, I'm not suggesting the meeting didn't occur in Desmond's past, relative to 2007 when he dreamed about it. It did.

[losttime]

Arg Archangel your typing hurts my Eyes!

I think he only remembers it then is because it didn't happen till the present, let me show you what I mean.

The Island is like a skipping record. We know this. But it is still on the turntable. To everyone in the world, and to them they are in the present still. While the island is skipping back and forth. So when Dan tells Des the message, he sais it in the present while past Des hears it, so present Des remembers it then, at the same time Past DES hears it and implants it into his brain.

Sounds like you are verbally skipping lol I actually just got a huge headache reading this. But still interesting none-the-less

[Archangel-Player]

I think Des` timeing of remembering Dan`s conversation was part of time correction process. Had Des rememberd that conversation any time besides 2007 at the time he woke up. Then time would have broken the rules of time. When he rememberd it. It was the right time and at the right moment.