Jack-Ben-Fahey Bo Sox/ '04 or '07????

[The Stepfather]

Jeff Fahey (what's his characters' name again?) tells Jack that his Dad is 'from the Bronx' and obviously was bummed about The Sox winning the World Series. Now, the Sox bounced NY in '04 in amazing fashion. In '07, the Indians knocked NY out but Boston won the whole thing again. The writers are leading us to believe that Both Fahey and Jack are talking about the same thing (remember Ben showed Jack that the Bo Sox won but that was the '04 World Series), same game.

A Yankees fan from the Bronx would be pretty upset at that '04 game and none too happy with the '07 win. So, WERE AM I GOING WITH THIS? Well...

According to Oceanic Air's website, they are up and running as of Dec 31, 2007, after a 3 year hiatus, due to the crash.

Flight 815 crashed Sept. 22, 2004 (about a month before the '04 World Series) and according to Jack (either last week or the latest episode) they have been on the Island 100 days, which would put them at about Dec 31, 2004, roughly.

We saw that Faraday's clocks were off by 31 minutes AND THEY BEEN ON THE ISLAND LESS THAN 24 HOURS.

At some point, the fact that the Sox won in '04 AND '07 may come in to play, methinks.

Jack has been on the Island for 100 days and thus, is for all intents and purposes, resides in 2004. This is true.

The rescuers are somewhere between late Dec 2007 and early 2008. This is true for them.

Both times are correct.

So...

What happens when the "Oceanic 6" realize 3 years have passed since the crash, when they know good and well it's only been about 3 months? This certainly would help convince them to keep quiet about what really happened. And maybe Hurley actually tried to say something to someone and got tossed in the looney bin again?

In summation, i think the Red Sox series might hold a clue. Whether it plays out,who knows. But why would the writers bring it up again? Them winning 2 in 3 years plays perfectly into this storyline, methinks.

And as i mentioned on a different thread, Claire can not leave the Island, directly because the of the time dilation. She arrived 8 months pregnant. Anyone who knew her before she boarded the plane would expect to see a 3 year old if she was rescued, not a 3 month old (Which is what she has at the moment.) It could not be explained to anyone who never experienced the Island.

So that's my 2 cents worth.

[PacmanIsLost]

i think that they are talking about the 2004 red sox but it would be an interesting twist and provide a good reason for claire not getting off the island if it were the 2007 red sox... however, i think it comes down to a matter of realistic logistics here, in that, LOST started filming this season in august and the red sox won the world series on oct. 28th and the writer's strike started during the first week of november so there really is no way they could have gone back and changed the script to work in a different red sox team and change the entire dynamic of the show and rewrite all the scripts they were still working on to get us these first 8 shows...plus i'd imagine they finished shooting the first 3 shows before the end of october

[Meditate]

Sounds like a good idea, but there is no way back when they first mentioned it that they could have predicted or even hoped for the Red Sox to pull it off again. How cool would it be if it did work into the story?!!! Lucky them.

[navyguy]

Jeff Fahey (what's his characters' name again?) tells Jack that his Dad is 'from the Bronx' and obviously was bummed about The Sox winning the World Series. Now, the Sox bounced NY in '04 in amazing fashion. In '07, the Indians knocked NY out but Boston won the whole thing again. The writers are leading us to believe that Both Fahey and Jack are talking about the same thing (remember Ben showed Jack that the Bo Sox won but that was the '04 World Series), same game.

A Yankees fan from the Bronx would be pretty upset at that '04 game and none too happy with the '07 win. So, WERE AM I GOING WITH THIS? Well...

According to Oceanic Air's website, they are up and running as of Dec 31, 2007, after a 3 year hiatus, due to the crash.

Flight 815 crashed Sept. 22, 2004 (about a month before the '04 World Series) and according to Jack (either last week or the latest episode) they have been on the Island 100 days, which would put them at about Dec 31, 2004, roughly.

We saw that Faraday's clocks were off by 31 minutes AND THEY BEEN ON THE ISLAND LESS THAN 24 HOURS.

At some point, the fact that the Sox won in '04 AND '07 may come in to play, methinks.

Jack has been on the Island for 100 days and thus, is for all intents and purposes, resides in 2004. This is true.

The rescuers are somewhere between late Dec 2007 and early 2008. This is true for them.

Both times are correct.

So...

What happens when the "Oceanic 6" realize 3 years have passed since the crash, when they know good and well it's only been about 3 months? This certainly would help convince them to keep quiet about what really happened. And maybe Hurley actually tried to say something to someone and got tossed in the looney bin again?

In summation, i think the Red Sox series might hold a clue. Whether it plays out,who knows. But why would the writers bring it up again? Them winning 2 in 3 years plays perfectly into this storyline, methinks.

And as i mentioned on a different thread, Claire can not leave the Island, directly because the of the time dilation. She arrived 8 months pregnant. Anyone who knew her before she boarded the plane would expect to see a 3 year old if she was rescued, not a 3 month old (Which is what she has at the moment.) It could not be explained to anyone who never experienced the Island.

So that's my 2 cents worth.

FINALLY SOMEBODY IS ON THE SAME PAGE AS ME!!!!! I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY POSTS I HAVE MADE ABOUT THIS TIME DILATION WELL BEFORE THE FARADAY EXPERIMENT. SCREW THE REDSOX THO

[PacmanIsLost]

but the time dilation is backwards

[The Stepfather]

Let me clarify; I'm not saying (am I?) that the writers planned this (they couldn't have, as it was pointed out with the writers strike, ect...) but NOW they have something that they can write in at a later date.

But forget the Bo Sox thing (yeah, they do suck)

It's Dec 2007 on Oceanic Air's Website.

The Losties been on the Island less than 4 months (they crashed Sept. 2004)

So that's what i was getting at, that they might use the bo Sox 2 wins in 4 years to tie in the time issue.

[PacmanIsLost]

is there a published date for when they find the plane in the ocean?

[The Stepfather]

I have been trying to find that but I think we can forgot about that one.

I have an eerie feeling that tv broadcast is the last 1o minutes of the show (in 2010)

I think they Oceanic 6 all go back somehow and for some reason which hasn't been shown. So that crash would be probably sometime around the last week of Sept., 2004 ASSUMING no one from the Island is OFF the Island. I think EVERYONE has to be on the Island for that reality to come to fruition IMO.

There can not be even 1 survivor at the end of the show if that Plane is any indication...

(ok, you can launch the rockets at me now....:-)

[RatedRKO]

FINALLY SOMEBODY IS ON THE SAME PAGE AS ME!!!!! I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY POSTS I HAVE MADE ABOUT THIS TIME DILATION WELL BEFORE THE FARADAY EXPERIMENT. SCREW THE REDSOX THO

Screw the Sox???....dont hate.....Yankees time has passed, thats all there is too it...they no longer have the right formula - no more role players over there.....but back to lost.....im not in agreeance with this cause of the strike thing and timing.....plus i think frank would be alot more upset at the 04 win when the yanks were up 3-0 and got then got shut down in the boogie down, then the Indians bouncing them in 07....the loss in 07 was written on the walls with there lack luster pitching....if he was a true fan and bled yankee blue he would know they didnt really have the pitching to win the series in 07 and a world series title wasnt as obtainable as it was in 04.....sorry im big into sports.

[The Stepfather]

RKO, i stand corrected.

And couldn't agree more about that '07 Season for the Yanks. They didn't have the heart anymore. But at least my team has Torre now. And we have much better hair plugs than those Manhattan ones.

Where i live (Santa Monica CA), we just put the '88 tape on of Kirk Gibson b*tch slapping Eckersly's weak sauce 3-2 pitch and reminisce about the Dodger Glory days...

WHY CAN'T LOST BE 2 HOURS LONG?

Is that too much to ask? I's PAY for that.

[UnknownPoster]

1. If the Red Sox won on Oct 28 and the strike didn't start until the first week in Nov, why couldn't they have filmed the scene in the week between?

2. The actors always talk about filming scenes that never make it into the show. They may have filmed one scene to use if the Sox won and another to use if they didn't.
________
Honda Mh02 Specifications (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_MH02)

[missjulie]

That time line could explain why the Oceanic 6 are so famous... surviving on an island for three YEARS is way more interesting and three months. Of course we don't know what else happens between now and the rescue to make them more famous...

I think its an interesting theory and I anticipate seeing what happens if you're right!!

[bunnydixon]

i like that idea and with this show its certainly a possibilty - i mean, they made a big deal of it and something did seem quite odd about the whole exchange. however, i am sure jack said something about being on the island 100 days and nobody corrected him.

[Robo42]

Fisrst, Navy I have been onboard with you, lately at least. You know us wingnuts are a lot more laid back and take more time to absorb things. LOL
Secondly, I enjoy stepfathers concise, well written posts, and in most cases he is more abley to get down in words, similar thoughts that I could not.

Now, as far as the Sox are concerned, I am sick to my stomach thinking that they are going to tie all of this in for the losties. The Yanks are just re-tooling and I am confidently predicting another WS dynasty in the near future.

[Kage]

To answer your very 1st question Jeff Fahey's charactors name is Frank Lapidus.I like your theroy it actually makes sense if anything on this show can.

[Dzbabykel]

I LOVE your theory Stepfather!! I was thinking along those lines too when I read the press release from oceanic airlines and saw that it said Dec '07. Do you think that maybe the plane got sucked into a wormhole causing it to crash and went back in time 3 years OR do you think time is just slower on the island? If it HAD in fact gone back in time 3 years...would that explain why Locke could walk, Rose had no cancer and Jack's father is out and about walking around??? Also I think that also ties into an OLDER Walt...showing that he's probably 3 years older than when he was on the island (which is true in real life since the actor has obviously aged since the show began)...man this show is really getting confusing!

And yah I agree that could be their big secret...that they weren't on the island for 3 years like the world things but really only 3 months or so....if they were to tell then everyone would know time travel were possible.

[RatedRKO]

Fisrst, Navy I have been onboard with you, lately at least. You know us wingnuts are a lot more laid back and take more time to absorb things. LOL
Secondly, I enjoy stepfathers concise, well written posts, and in most cases he is more abley to get down in words, similar thoughts that I could not.

Now, as far as the Sox are concerned, I am sick to my stomach thinking that they are going to tie all of this in for the losties. The Yanks are just re-tooling and I am confidently predicting another WS dynasty in the near future.


no chance at a dynasty but they have looked at how the sox have been succesful with building young pitching through there organization and having the young guns carry a large role.....they will be better but i still think they need to trim some overpaid fat and get back the role guys like back in the day such as a brosius or a paul o'neil....those guys were the backbone of those teams...like we have our youkilis's, wakefields and Lowells.....not complete studs by any means but huge role guys....Sox will dominate the Yanks once again....Hank Steinbrenners a joke, it wont be soon where Cashman gets fired and then Hank sells all the young pitching for high priced fillers at the deadline......Lost 2 hours.......i totally agree!!

[mahalo_dude]

Red Sox and LOST. Two of my favorite things! Now, if we can just add hot women, cold beer, steamed lobster, and gigantic lottery winnings, I'm in heaven!!

Anyhoo, I don't think there is much to look into with the theory. Jack says to Frank, "So the Red Sox finally won the series?" "FINALLY" implies that they are both on the same page ~ 2004. I think the entire conversation is simply a nod to the Jack-Christian relationship thing.

The only time anomaly I want associated with all this would be for A-Rod to relive the ball-slapping play OVER and OVER again.:D

[Jaytee]

Hmm...de-aging going through the island bubble?

Thats very interesting! That would explain how Locke can walk, rose is healed, and jack's dad is mysteriously popping up.

But wouldn't we have noticed if walt de-aged 3 years? Thats the only problem i see with that theory. It would have to get a lot more sci-fi to say that their "state of health" de-aged or something like that.

I still like the idea of time not passing as fast, but it does not explain as much.

EDIT: Oh yeah, forgot to talk about the bo-sox thing. That would be SICK if they pulled that off.
Later on in another episode:
Heli-Pilot: "So, howd you like those socks sweeping the final series."
Jack: "Yeah, and they beat the yanks down 0-3."
Heli-Pilot: "Wait, you're talking about the '04 series?"
Jack: "Yeah weren't you?"

That would be fantastic.

[PacmanIsLost]

1. If the Red Sox won on Oct 28 and the strike didn't start until the first week in Nov, why couldn't they have filmed the scene in the week between?

2. The actors always talk about filming scenes that never make it into the show. They may have filmed one scene to use if the Sox won and another to use if they didn't.

It would change too much of the dynamic of the show to write it into the 3rd episode and have it match with everything that happens in the rest of the episodes... also, as i said before... they were more than likely done with the 3rd episode by the end of september/middle of october because unlike with films, they can't shoot television shows out of order, they have to shoot one episode and then the next if the storylines are continuous...they can only shoot scenes out of order but they need to consistently complete shooting on individual episodes so that everything progresses... if they had been working on the last 8 episodes instead of the first 8 episodes and then the writer's strike started then they would have no way of connecting that middle ground.... i would imagine they were just finishing rewrites on episode 8 when the strike started and then completed the shooting on the last few of those first 8, probably just 6,7, and 8...

and filming scenes that never make it in are one thing...of course there are always deleted scenes... but to go to the exhaustive lengths of writing and shooting a script for an episode of television based on the outcome of a sporting event that may not even include the team you are referring to is a complete waste of time, money and film (if you're shooting on film)

[UnknownPoster]

Normally i would agree with you, but I read an interview w/ jorge Garcia and he said that when they have guest stars, they always make them shoot scenes that never make the show and were never intended to. I guess it was so they don't reveal stuff because they don't know which scenes are real and which are not. Plus look at all the deleted scenes floating around the internet.

I am 100% positive it is common practice to shoot multiple scenes with this show that go in diffreent directions. Unlike normal shows.
________
Shelby Mustang (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Shelby_Mustang)

[PacmanIsLost]

Normally i would agree with you, but I read an interview w/ jorge Garcia and he said that when they have guest stars, they always make them shoot scenes that never make the show and were never intended to. I guess it was so they don't reveal stuff because they don't know which scenes are real and which are not. Plus look at all the deleted scenes floating around the internet.

I am 100% positive it is common practice to shoot multiple scenes with this show that go in diffreent directions. Unlike normal shows.


I completely agree with you, I was just trying to say that I think they are much more likely to shoot scenes that they have complete control over rather than basing it on a possible contingency in the future in the real world

[Dzbabykel]

Oh yah i agree too, the writers and cast have already said that they shoot alternative scenes so that no one knows exactly whats going on so that something won't leak. Haha the writers are geniuses!

[The Stepfather]

Maybe that's a CLUE? See, the clues are very subtle, methinks. Bo Sox mentioned twice (Bo Sox wins twice), the Freighters being careful not to 'give any info away' to the losties (Hence, no correction on the "100 Days")

The real weaklink is Faraday, who made it known that 1.) the light was weird and 2.) that time ON the Island and time OFF the Island, although simultaneous, are not observed the same.

I think Jack stayed behind because he realizes Faraday is esp. vulnerable without Miles around the hush him up. Scientist are notorious for having loose lips!

ALSO: DIFFERENT SUBJECT

I can't figure out something...

Hurley found the cabin. We saw Locke in the cabin. or DID WE? WE saw Locke but Hurley didn't. He saw Locke OUTSIDE the cabin. And Locke was genuinely surprised to find out Hurley knew where the Cabin was. And Locke went int he wrong direction BUT LOCKE HAS GOOD DIRECTION SKILLS. And Hurley knew the cabin was in a different direction.

And Ben was taking all this in.

What does any of that mean and is that a Clue?

[Dzbabykel]

Hurley found the cabin. We saw Locke in the cabin. or DID WE? WE saw Locke but Hurley didn't. He saw Locke OUTSIDE the cabin. And Locke was genuinely surprised to find out Hurley knew where the Cabin was. And Locke went int he wrong direction BUT LOCKE HAS GOOD DIRECTION SKILLS. And Hurley knew the cabin was in a different direction.

And Ben was taking all this in.

What does any of that mean and is that a Clue?

I personally think that it wasn't Locke Hurley saw in the cabin but Jacob. The cabin disappeared by the time Hurley fell and Locke found him. Thats why Locke was genuinely surprised that Hurley had seen it along with Ben. Perhaps the cabin or Jacob allows you to see it when he wants? Locke def had found the right spot seeing as the ash was there.

[boyo]

Well Jack said he hasn't seen a game for 100 days, not that he's been on the island for 100 days. Plus he might have just been rounding up the count as it doesn't really matter if it's 96 or 102 etc.

As for the cabin - we have yet to find out more about the whole Jacob thing. It might be just an illusion, can't it? So Jacob does not like technology because then people might find out that it's an illusion? When Locke was there he had to turn off the torch . On the other side when Hurley saw it it wasn't completely dark outside yet?

[thelawgiver]

I like stefahter's theory, but agree that this scene may have been shot prior to the second WS win. But there are more clues to the several year time shift. Remember that when Sayid said that Naomi's Radio was something he has never scene before? Also Dan's equipment for his experiment was pretty sleek looking and like something new.

What does bother me is that Frank has not drilled anyone about whether any of the crew survived. You would think he would immediately want to know about his pilot buddy, since he believes the one in the trench is not him.

[bunnydixon]

bit random but if they are referring to the 07 world series then they are relying on all their non US viewers to know that information. Unless we really go out of our way to find out, we would have no idea who won the 2007 world series so maybe they are just referring to the 2004 one.

[Turnip Queen]

Oh my God, I think you're really onto something there!! Bloody hell you guys are so brainy! That is just such a good theory on it all!

[garnet]

I am so up in the air about the time issue...you can look at it from so many different perspectives. It OBVIOUSLY has a lot to do with what's going on. However, it really could just be 31 minutes off. Remember how long Juliet has been on the island? around 3 years, right? Well, remember that when she left, her sister was pregnant. In the video feed that Ben had Mikhail show her in Season 3, her sister had given birth, and the child that was shown with her sister looks to be around 2 years old. 2 years plus the 9 months of pregnancy adds up to the approximate length of time that Juliet has been on the island. Ben also pointed out a newspaper with that day's date on it and said that it was a live feed. Then again, we know that Ben is the master manipulator, and could have radioed ahead to Mikhail to draw up that specific day in "real world time".

Richard looks the same as in the episode where Young Ben chases his mother's ghost, which would insinuate a slowing of time, but on the same note, Ben has grown from a child into a man.

As far as the Oceanic 6 being 3 years ahead and only feeling like it's been 3 months, we really don't know how far into the future the flash forwards are taking us. We saw at the end of season 3 that Jack wanted to go back to the island. However, in Hurley's flash forward, Jack didn't even want to think about going back. So, until we get a few more flash forwards and mre of a timeline (so to speak), I am on the fence with the whole time differences.

[Turnip Queen]

You know what I'm wondering? Will anything weird happen when they're on the island for 108 days!!

[mahalo_dude]

I just hope that we don't find out that they will be on the island for 86 years, and Jacob is really the ghost of Babe Ruth.

[Quick Draw]

Now before I'm accused of "Hating" on anyone's team let me proclaim as a Red's fan the season is over by all star break so I don't really care. That being said given the "steroid era" and all implications that the Comish wasn't in the dark about it, it is entirely plausible that the writers of the greatest TV show ever could have scripted the World Series outcome to fit the plot line. Don't forget after the 05 season all the BoSox fans were crying about the Curse being reinstated, it must have taken an act of Jacob to bring another Title to Beantown.
All Baseball Jokes aside, what if Jack is assuming that they are talking about the same win Ben showed him but the Pilot is talking about the current Series. A Nov. Strike wouldn't rule out this early reference and would have been an easy addition to the plan. And how pumped will Jack be if he finds out about a Bonus World Title for the Sox, well before he becomes suicidal anyways.

[Quick Draw]

It would change too much of the dynamic of the show to write it into the 3rd episode and have it match with everything that happens in the rest of the episodes... also, as i said before... they were more than likely done with the 3rd episode by the end of september/middle of october because unlike with films, they can't shoot television shows out of order, they have to shoot one episode and then the next if the storylines are continuous...they can only shoot scenes out of order but they need to consistently complete shooting on individual episodes so that everything progresses... if they had been working on the last 8 episodes instead of the first 8 episodes and then the writer's strike started then they would have no way of connecting that middle ground.... i would imagine they were just finishing rewrites on episode 8 when the strike started and then completed the shooting on the last few of those first 8, probably just 6,7, and 8...

and filming scenes that never make it in are one thing...of course there are always deleted scenes... but to go to the exhaustive lengths of writing and shooting a script for an episode of television based on the outcome of a sporting event that may not even include the team you are referring to is a complete waste of time, money and film (if you're shooting on film)

To go back and change just one scene from an already filmed episode would be a minor detail, what would they need besides two actors the set and crew? Besides I think we've all seen a Jeff Gordon Pepsi commercial immediately following his win at the Pepsi 500 or a Disney World commercial following the Super Bowl Featuring the MVP, filming on speculation isn't unheard of.
if they think the long term benefits outweigh the short term cost (Cost of Film? Seriously?) Time (They had nothing but time between the beginning of the strike and the release of the season) and Money (if it makes the show more interesting it pays for itself) it would be way more exciting to incorporate it, so why not?

[Ezekiel 25:17]

All I know is I was pissed more than any1 when the REd sox took the series, in 04. They swept the CArdinals, I'm a die hard Cardinal fan, I hate the sox, lol. I think it may be probable (this theory that is).

[HurleysMillions]

dan lived in mass... true he must have grown up a yankees fan but even so... he shoulda been a little happy to have seen the bosox win.. atleast gone to a sweet party or two... oh well.. go sox

[TuesdaySmith]

Why are you so certain that the F4 are from 2007? What did I miss?

[mahalo_dude]

Why are you so certain that the F4 are from 2007? What did I miss?


I don't get it either.

[PacmanIsLost]

To go back and change just one scene from an already filmed episode would be a minor detail, what would they need besides two actors the set and crew? Besides I think we've all seen a Jeff Gordon Pepsi commercial immediately following his win at the Pepsi 500 or a Disney World commercial following the Super Bowl Featuring the MVP, filming on speculation isn't unheard of.
if they think the long term benefits outweigh the short term cost (Cost of Film? Seriously?) Time (They had nothing but time between the beginning of the strike and the release of the season) and Money (if it makes the show more interesting it pays for itself) it would be way more exciting to incorporate it, so why not?

It could be a major detail if lapidis isn't in all 8 episodes because by then he could've been off of the set.... and having worked in the industry i just don't see the likelihood of them making this decision right after the world series, having the time to write it (no matter how short the scene is, storyboard it, rent out the helicopter again, get all the production notes in order and then shoot the thing.... and the fact remains that they already introduced the 2004 red sox with the video and jack asked if they had really won the world series...and he is in such disbelief because it had been so long and thus i think the 2004 world series would get the reaction that lapidis gave but since that time, the red sox have been consistently legit, broke the curse, and them winning the series is no longer as dramatic...and i really think lapidis would've mentioned both series wins as damaging to him if he really had seen both already