"The Orchid" Orientation video

[XmasDVD]

Did anyone attend ComicCon in San Diego this year? I believe they showed "The Orchid" (station #6 of the Dharms inititive) at the event.

In the video they show a rabbit with a #15 on it's side - as they are working on filming the video, something falls in the background - the camera pans up and there is rabbit # 15 on top of a shelf, yet the scientist is still holding # 15 in his arms. He gets very panicked and says to keep them from touching each other.

I believe this was a clue to the time shift we have been talking about.

You can watch the video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tam391FwqHI

In some of the film you see blips during the video. One is a shot of a building and another of someone riding a bicycle through Ben's village.

[PacmanIsLost]

it's definitely a huge clue... especially because they mention the casimir effect which could be significant to the island in a number of ways...the following are all from the wikipedia entry on the casimir effect at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

1)"Exotic matter with negative energy density is required to stabilize a wormhole.[6] Morris, Thorne and Yurtsever[7] pointed out that the quantum mechanics of the Casimir effect can be used to produce a locally mass-negative region of space-time, and suggested that negative effect could be used to stabilize a wormhole to allow faster than light travel." - therefore they could be using the properties of the island to use the casimir effect to stabilize a wormhole to travel to and from the island...

2)"A similar analysis can be used to explain Hawking radiation that causes the slow "evaporation" of black holes (although this is generally visualized as the escape of one particle from a virtual particle-antiparticle pair, the other particle having been captured by the black hole)." - i don't quote this to bring up black holes but rather the significance of the particle/anti-particle which would wholly explain why the doctor says to keep the rabbits away from each other because when particles and anti-particles interact they annihilate one another.

3)"Through the use of a perfect lens (one with the ability to focus an image with resolution unrestricted by the wavelength of light)[8] with a negative refractive index, the effect can be reversed, causing small objects to be repelled rather than attracted.[9] However, because of the scale at which the effect applies, its applications are most likely to be found in nanotechnology.[10] [11] According to Dr Philbi, it is theoretically possible to levitate objects as big as humans, but scientists are a long way off developing the technology for such feats.[12]" - this could help to explain the functioning of the smoke monster, Jacob and could also help with transportation to and from the island...and of course since this is science fiction we are dealing with, there is no reason they couldn't take everything to a level of future capability

[Dzbabykel]

I agree 100%, I think that video is a MAJOR clue into whats going on such as time travel and worm holes. I had posted a thread about that a long time ago....here it is here:

http://www.lost.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116

It may enforce the theory your talking about. Thanks for that!:)

[Dzbabykel]

Ok I'm just going to throw out what I've been thinking....I'm probably wrong haha so don't bite my head off..

I think that we've already been presented with possibility of a time travel station (the Orchid Station) and that this station could possibly be hidden where the Swan Station is, you know where they had to push that stupid button. I find it interesting that when they let the button go, all the metal in the room started going straight to the center (this could explain the strong electromagnetism of that particular area) and not to mention where the fail safe key was. I think that the location of where that fail safe key was is the section on the island where the Casimir effect is the strongest. Remember (and correct me if I'm wrong) but its basically 2 strong forces pushing against each other and what is created between those 2 forces creates something like a wormhole or something (I'm in no way a physist by any means so haha this is hard to explain.)

I go on to say that isn't it interesting that this is the exact place where Desmond, after turning the key, "woke up" in what we thought was a flashback, yet he remembered everything about the island and his experiences. When I saw this I had just assumed it was a dream, but when I started thinking about it, Desmond may have fallen through this wormhole (or whatever it is) accidentally and went back in time. He even asks his friend the physcist if time travel is possible. I have no explanation for how he got back or anything haha so I'm still quite confused, but when he returned (or woke up rather) he had no recollection of turning the key and he was naked (ow ow!) for some reason. As we all know, he has visions of the future now as well.

As for the polar bear, I think it sort of has to do with what happened to Desmond. I mean we saw that the Dharma people were experimenting with rabbits, maybe they were also experimenting with larger animals such as polar bears?? I know its a stretch but perhaps it was an experiment gone wrong?

Now just to say one more thing, to agree with another post I had read about someone who said this exact thing...remember the Valenzetti equation (the numbers) well I believe its the equation for when the end of the world will occur (or something..like I said I'm just typing this from memory and I'm no scientist lol) so I think that maybe The Dharma Initative's purpose was trying to stop that from happening so if they discovered a time travel dimension they could possibly go back in time (or future) and try to correct things from happening so they could extend life longer. Now remember the woman Desmond spoke to kept telling him his SOLE purpose was to push that button or it will be the end of all of us. She then went on to say he couldn't course correct and that THIS was meant to happen. I think that has a lot of importance seeing as how Locke says that all the time "its meant to be this way".

All this to say, I have sooo much more that I'm thinking and I'm not going to bore you but my ultimate theory is that Ben KNOWS about this and is the ONLY one who knows other than possibly Richard or maybe the Losties which could be why the Purge happened. That's why in all the orientation videos they've cut out certain things which in my opinion could be anything that verbally referred to a time travel dimension so that no one would find out? This is why the Freighter ppl were recruited to get Ben so that they could find out what's been going on. The drops probably kept continuing because no one knew really about the Dharma people and Ben hid the fact of everything so that the food drops could still occur as planned (or did the food drops occur because of Desmond pushing the button? I can't remember...)

Also, my last little tid bit is that perhaps (if we go with this theory) when Jack and Hurley in the flashforwards refer to "going back" we naturally assume they are talking about going back to the island. Well that could be, but maaaaybe if we think outside the box, they're talking about going back in time? Remember Locke keeps saying "this isn't supposed to happen" so maybe they realize they need to change something? Ok I've written way too much and I doubt anyone will actually read this so I'll stop. Haha just my rambling 2 cents :p

[PacmanIsLost]

i think most of what you said is pretty spot on.... and if you remember when they went to the flame station and locke played chess against the computer, once he won he was able to enter a number of different codes, one of which was for a food drop... so perhaps if ben keeps asking for food drops but next to no one is left from dharma, then at some point maybe widmore/hanso/paik/etc. find out about the purge and begin to take steps to find ben and whoever he represents to get some of his knowledge or simply kill him...

i think that the Hostiles (the antagonists of dharma who are thought to be natives) are really a group that later recruit ben to kill off dharma and so they must have an outside group that they are connected too perhaps mittelos bioscience and others... we keep connecting the maxwell group/paik/widmore/hanso and others but i think at some point we have to find an organization which ben is aligned with... do we know of anything else connected to the mittelos bioscience group?

[Dzbabykel]

i think most of what you said is pretty spot on.... and if you remember when they went to the flame station and locke played chess against the computer, once he won he was able to enter a number of different codes, one of which was for a food drop... so perhaps if ben keeps asking for food drops but next to no one is left from dharma, then at some point maybe widmore/hanso/paik/etc. find out about the purge and begin to take steps to find ben and whoever he represents to get some of his knowledge or simply kill him...

i think that the Hostiles (the antagonists of dharma who are thought to be natives) are really a group that later recruit ben to kill off dharma and so they must have an outside group that they are connected too perhaps mittelos bioscience and others... we keep connecting the maxwell group/paik/widmore/hanso and others but i think at some point we have to find an organization which ben is aligned with... do we know of anything else connected to the mittelos bioscience group?


I'm not sure but remember Rousseau was part of some science team apart from Dharma I believe, perhaps her group was with Mittelos Bioscience? I do think Ben is aligned with some group and I have a feeling it may be Oceanic Airlines.....perhaps he worked for them under a different alias which could be why there is a picture taken of him which looks to be at the airport and he also has files on EACH of the people on the place? Just an idea...

And I also agree with what you said about the food drops...perhaps when the hatch exploded, blowing up the computer, maybe thats when the food drops stopped being signaled which is how they knew something wasn't write causing these people to come after Ben?

As a side note about Rousseau, we know Ben is not Alex's father but she was in love with a man named Robert whom she killed because she thought he was "sick"....I have a feeling this Robert guy is Alex's father....have we been introduced to anyone named Robert yet in any flashbacks at all?

[frost3320]

This is new to me, having said that i have the feeling that you have seen more than i have, i will be watching the 3 show of the 4th series tonight, but if there are more rabbits with numbers on could this, start to explain what part they play. I already have some thoughts on that.

[bunnydixon]

Ok I'm just going to throw out what I've been thinking....I'm probably wrong haha so don't bite my head off..

I think that we've already been presented with possibility of a time travel station (the Orchid Station) and that this station could possibly be hidden where the Swan Station is, you know where they had to push that stupid button. I find it interesting that when they let the button go, all the metal in the room started going straight to the center (this could explain the strong electromagnetism of that particular area) and not to mention where the fail safe key was. I think that the location of where that fail safe key was is the section on the island where the Casimir effect is the strongest. Remember (and correct me if I'm wrong) but its basically 2 strong forces pushing against each other and what is created between those 2 forces creates something like a wormhole or something (I'm in no way a physist by any means so haha this is hard to explain.)

I go on to say that isn't it interesting that this is the exact place where Desmond, after turning the key, "woke up" in what we thought was a flashback, yet he remembered everything about the island and his experiences. When I saw this I had just assumed it was a dream, but when I started thinking about it, Desmond may have fallen through this wormhole (or whatever it is) accidentally and went back in time. He even asks his friend the physcist if time travel is possible. I have no explanation for how he got back or anything haha so I'm still quite confused, but when he returned (or woke up rather) he had no recollection of turning the key and he was naked (ow ow!) for some reason. As we all know, he has visions of the future now as well.

As for the polar bear, I think it sort of has to do with what happened to Desmond. I mean we saw that the Dharma people were experimenting with rabbits, maybe they were also experimenting with larger animals such as polar bears?? I know its a stretch but perhaps it was an experiment gone wrong?

Now just to say one more thing, to agree with another post I had read about someone who said this exact thing...remember the Valenzetti equation (the numbers) well I believe its the equation for when the end of the world will occur (or something..like I said I'm just typing this from memory and I'm no scientist lol) so I think that maybe The Dharma Initative's purpose was trying to stop that from happening so if they discovered a time travel dimension they could possibly go back in time (or future) and try to correct things from happening so they could extend life longer. Now remember the woman Desmond spoke to kept telling him his SOLE purpose was to push that button or it will be the end of all of us. She then went on to say he couldn't course correct and that THIS was meant to happen. I think that has a lot of importance seeing as how Locke says that all the time "its meant to be this way".

All this to say, I have sooo much more that I'm thinking and I'm not going to bore you but my ultimate theory is that Ben KNOWS about this and is the ONLY one who knows other than possibly Richard or maybe the Losties which could be why the Purge happened. That's why in all the orientation videos they've cut out certain things which in my opinion could be anything that verbally referred to a time travel dimension so that no one would find out? This is why the Freighter ppl were recruited to get Ben so that they could find out what's been going on. The drops probably kept continuing because no one knew really about the Dharma people and Ben hid the fact of everything so that the food drops could still occur as planned (or did the food drops occur because of Desmond pushing the button? I can't remember...)

Also, my last little tid bit is that perhaps (if we go with this theory) when Jack and Hurley in the flashforwards refer to "going back" we naturally assume they are talking about going back to the island. Well that could be, but maaaaybe if we think outside the box, they're talking about going back in time? Remember Locke keeps saying "this isn't supposed to happen" so maybe they realize they need to change something? Ok I've written way too much and I doubt anyone will actually read this so I'll stop. Haha just my rambling 2 cents :p


with your first point about the orchid - there definitely seems to be a trsong hint of time travel/wormholes however, i am not sure why we see something drop and then its on the top shelf as i am assuming its both rabbit 15. this would also explain why he is so keen to keep them seperated. if it was a simple clone it would make no difference but if it is one and the same rabbit.....

it does seem that desmond travelled back to his past but i dont understand how there was not already a desmond there - does he immediately consume the body of this other desmond? or is there only ever one desmond? and i am nto sure why pushing the key was such an important thing to do and why it was his fate as he has now stopped pushing the button and there is no more hatch. i know the universe has a way of course correcting itself but how can it correct that?

i think the polar bear is part of this re-enviromentalisation that dharma were trying to do which ties in with then being aware of the equation and attempting to either prevent it or do something that would mean that life would be able to continue. an i agree that perhaps ben knows or thinks this will lead to even worse consequences of some kind (than the end of the world - i dont know) or thinks that these experiments will ironically bring ON the end of the world or doesnt think nature is to be meddled with etc...

i read that the lockdown triggered a food drop so know there can be no more lockdowns that means no more food.

and the going back thing has played on my mind too - especially when hurley mentioned his regret at not siding with jack.

phew - i hope that makes sense!

[jacksnurse]

dz...i know that we have all talked 'bout this....rite on.....i agree with u and i do think that we need rosseaus flashbacks to start and trace together a lot of the other group (scientists)....i am waiting patiently...the clips onthe orchid video are def giving us clues too...one is of a building with what looks like some statue possibly in front....

[Dzbabykel]

Yeah, each episode makes my theories change each week haha but this has been my most solid theory I guess. Bunny, when you were talkin about how you didn't get how Desmond didn't run into himself when if he did in fact go back in time...that confused me too. But I then remembered that for some reason, he was a DAY OFF from before...remember when he was wrong about the soccer game and was confused, but then the NEXT day everything he thought would happen did and he goes "I'm NOT crazy!". Maybe that is a clue to it? It still really confuses me though!!

PS, that episode literally almost made me cry...I feel sooo bad for Desmond because he loves her SOO much yet her father tells him he's not even worthy to drink his whisky, let alone be with Penny. Ah Dez is such a great guy, it made me sad for him :(

[jacksnurse]

yeah....remember when he goes back to the pub the next nite....everything happens just like he predicted.....poor des...i feel bad 4 him too...penny and he are sooooo rite on...and her dad is such a bast###!!!! I think that he owns just about everything and will stop at nothing to keep des and pen apart.......

[PacmanIsLost]

I'm not sure but remember Rousseau was part of some science team apart from Dharma I believe, perhaps her group was with Mittelos Bioscience? I do think Ben is aligned with some group and I have a feeling it may be Oceanic Airlines.....perhaps he worked for them under a different alias which could be why there is a picture taken of him which looks to be at the airport and he also has files on EACH of the people on the place? Just an idea...

And I also agree with what you said about the food drops...perhaps when the hatch exploded, blowing up the computer, maybe thats when the food drops stopped being signaled which is how they knew something wasn't write causing these people to come after Ben?

As a side note about Rousseau, we know Ben is not Alex's father but she was in love with a man named Robert whom she killed because she thought he was "sick"....I have a feeling this Robert guy is Alex's father....have we been introduced to anyone named Robert yet in any flashbacks at all?


It would be interesting if he had worked for oceanic or had some ties to them because that could help explain why the hanso foundation recently bought them...if hanso/maxwell/paik/dharma are all connected then they would would want to purchase oceanic so that they could control records, media and other things related to their exposure

and the computer that ordered the food drops was in the Flame station, but i'm pretty sure Locke blew that up as well so i guess it's a moot point except for the fact that it occurred at a later time

and i'm never very sure of rousseau because she obviously has a screw loose from being on the island so long...and the longer that they are on the island the more i think that the quarantine and the sickness are complete hoaxes... if you think about it, quarantine should have been written on the outside of the hatch not the inside...this would point to it being fake since a person inside would climb up, then see the word and realize they needed to stay inside... i think dharma used this as a scare tactic to get people to keep pushing the button

[Dzbabykel]

It would be interesting if he had worked for oceanic or had some ties to them because that could help explain why the hanso foundation recently bought them...if hanso/maxwell/paik/dharma are all connected then they would would want to purchase oceanic so that they could control records, media and other things related to their exposure


Speaking of that, check this out!! I ran across it last night by accident and the date says February 7, 2007....so this could be old news and I'm JUST now seeing it but to go along with hanso or one of those companies purchasing oceanic airlines to they could control records fits in perfectly!

http://www.hansoair.org/

Looks like our man Alvar Hanso DID buy out Oceanic Airlines and started up his own company....any thoughts??

[Dzbabykel]

and i'm never very sure of rousseau because she obviously has a screw loose from being on the island so long...and the longer that they are on the island the more i think that the quarantine and the sickness are complete hoaxes... if you think about it, quarantine should have been written on the outside of the hatch not the inside...this would point to it being fake since a person inside would climb up, then see the word and realize they needed to stay inside... i think dharma used this as a scare tactic to get people to keep pushing the button

I agree with you 100% that there was never a virus and I think its still being used a scare tactic of some sort...notice how Dan's trunk that fell out of the plane had a gas mask or something? But nm, now that I think about it, if they were worried about some virus they would have worn them to begin with before jumping out of the plane. But anyway...regarding the "fake virus" I wonder what Rousseau's science team did to make her think that they were sick?? She claims that they were taken away and then when they returned they all "had it" and acted different? I wonder if the Others took her team one by one like they did with the Losties? Maybe they had been brainwashed as well or something in room 23? Ah it all confuses me....

[Quick Draw]

Someone already pointed out the shot of the building and the bicycle cut into the Orchid Orientation video, but I was surprised that I do not see any mention of the third "hidden" clip from the video. In between the two we've already mentioned there is another screen that say's "God loves you as he loved Jacob". It's really quick you have to pause it to read it, it just looks like a pink flash in full speed. I don't know how it fits but it's not there by accident, perhaps the Others cut these subliminal clips in place of information they didn't want anyone to see.

[Quick Draw]

I looked back at the video after I posted there is also a shot of a man with glasses and a very bushy beard (almost too bushy as if it might be fake) walking through a lab but he's not wearing a lab coat like everyone else he's wearing a sport coat and tie.

[LostFreak21]

Speaking of that, check this out!! I ran across it last night by accident and the date says February 7, 2007....so this could be old news and I'm JUST now seeing it but to go along with hanso or one of those companies purchasing oceanic airlines to they could control records fits in perfectly!

http://www.hansoair.org/

Looks like our man Alvar Hanso DID buy out Oceanic Airlines and started up his own company....any thoughts??

Too funny:)

[XmasDVD]

Someone already pointed out the shot of the building and the bicycle cut into the Orchid Orientation video, but I was surprised that I do not see any mention of the third "hidden" clip from the video. In between the two we've already mentioned there is another screen that say's "God loves you as he loved Jacob". It's really quick you have to pause it to read it, it just looks like a pink flash in full speed. I don't know how it fits but it's not there by accident, perhaps the Others cut these subliminal clips in place of information they didn't want anyone to see.

I saw that pink/white blip but didn't get to go back and see what it said. Another Jacob reference.

Wonder if it ties into the beliefs about "Jacob's Ladder" (see below)

Jacob's Ladder refers to a ladder to heaven described in the Book of Genesis (28:11-19) which the biblical patriarch Jacob envisioned during his flight from his brother Esau:

Jacob left Beersheba, and went toward Haran. He came to the place and stayed there that night, because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones of the place, he put it under his head and lay down in that place to sleep. And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven; and behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it! And behold, the LORD stood above it [or "beside him"] and said, "I am the LORD, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and to your descendants; and your descendants shall be like the dust of the earth, and you shall spread abroad to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and by you and your descendants shall all the families of the earth bless themselves. Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done that of which I have spoken to you." Then Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, "Surely the LORD is in this place; and I did not know it." And he was afraid, and said, "This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven."

[Dzbabykel]

Yah I posted a LONG thread a long time ago on that very subject....its sooo weird how Jacob and Ben related to the biblical Jacob and Benjamin....I'll see if I can dig it out and repost it. There are soo many religious parallels and def not a coincidence.

[Quick Draw]

Let's not forget that Jacob was running from Esau because he deceived him of his birthright. The Benjamin/Jacob focus could still be on deception & flight to become a something great.