toms remark about the sky going purple

[bunnydixon]

the beauty of hindsight ;)

i've been having myself a wee season 3 rewatch and when jack and tom are in the operating theatre with ben...jack asks tom why they didnt just take ben to the mainland for surgery and toms replied with 'ever since the sky turned purple...' then gets cut off.

wonder what the rest of the sentence was gonna be :confused:

[lostinfranklin]

I was just watching part of Season 3 last night, and Ben said to Locke that they had lost communications with the mainland every since an "*** anomaly." Which was probably the hatch imploding and the sky turning purple. I want to say that he said "electromagnetic," but I might just be thinking that because that's what they used to describe the energy in the hatch. This was the episode when Locke blew up the sub, and Ben said that once the sub left, it would never be able to return because of the lost communication system. So I'm guessing that's what Tom was going to say.

[Brother Desmond]

I think he was going to say that the sky turning purple knocked out their communications, as well as disabling the beacon in the Looking Glass which guided the submarine back to the Island.

The Others could have taken Ben to the mainland, but they probably wouldn't have been able to come back, which wouldn't sit well with Ben.

[bunnydixon]

I think he was going to say that the sky turning purple knocked out their communications, as well as disabling the beacon in the Looking Glass which guided the submarine back to the Island.

The Others could have taken Ben to the mainland, but they probably wouldn't have been able to come back, which wouldn't sit well with Ben.

possibly - but at which point did tom go out to get michael? before or after the surgery?

[Brother Desmond]

possibly - but at which point did tom go out to get michael? before or after the surgery?

Good question. My guess would be after the surgery. After Michael left I don't think Tom would have had the time to go to New York and back before he was physically in the operating room assisting Jack.

It's possible Tom used Desmond's boat, the Elizabeth, to sail to the mainland and make his way to New York from there. The Others were in control of the boat at the time of Ben's surgery.

[bunnydixon]

Good question. My guess would be after the surgery. After Michael left I don't think Tom would have had the time to go to New York and back before he was physically in the operating room assisting Jack.

It's possible Tom used Desmond's boat, the Elizabeth, to sail to the mainland and make his way to New York from there. The Others were in control of the boat at the time of Ben's surgery.

where they? what boat did sayid take then when sun shot colleen? wasnt that desmonds boat?

[Brother Desmond]

where they? what boat did sayid take then when sun shot colleen? wasnt that desmonds boat?

It was. Sayid, Jin, and Sun took it to the other side of the Island in an attempt to ambush the Others. While Sayid was laying his trap for the Others, they snuck past him and made it to the boat. This is where Sun shot Colleen, jumped off, and the Others were able to take the boat.

When Colleen was taken back to the Hydra Island, Juliet brought in Jack in an attempt to save Colleen. This is where Jack saw Ben's X-rays, and figured out he was taken so he could save someone's life. So the Other's did have control of the boat before Ben's surgery.

[bunnydixon]

It was. Sayid, Jin, and Sun took it to the other side of the Island in an attempt to ambush the Others. While Sayid was laying his trap for the Others, they snuck past him and made it to the boat. This is where Sun shot Colleen, jumped off, and the Others were able to take the boat.

When Colleen was taken back to the Hydra Island, Juliet brought in Jack in an attempt to save Colleen. This is where Jack saw Ben's X-rays, and figured out he was taken so he could save someone's life. So the Other's did have control of the boat before Ben's surgery.

thats right - i just watched all that in my lostathon last night. i am not sure there would have been enough time for tom to see michael and get back??

[Brother Desmond]

thats right - i just watched all that in my lostathon last night. i am not sure there would have been enough time for tom to see michael and get back??

Definitely not. So he probably made his way to New York after the surgery, and was back on the Island by the end of season three's events where he was killed by Sawyer.

[bunnydixon]

Definitely not. So he probably made his way to New York after the surgery, and was back on the Island by the end of season three's events where he was killed by Sawyer.

oh wait - you said that originally LOL!! sorry....

*note to self*

PAY ATTENTION

:o

[Brother Desmond]

oh wait - you said that originally LOL!! sorry....

*note to self*

PAY ATTENTION

:o

Haha, no problem.

The big problem I see with this though is how did Tom make it back to the Island if all the communications were down, and the Island was always moving, according to Ms. Hawking?

My guess is either we are dealing with a continuity error in that they didn't always intend to have the Island moving, and just recently added that dialouge to further explain why they were never rescues.

Or, there is a certain timeframe between the Island's physical location shifts. Be it a few days, a week, that gave Tom enough time to get to New York and back before it changed location again. That is of course if we choose to believe Eloise when she says the Island was always moving.

[bunnydixon]

Haha, no problem.

The big problem I see with this though is how did Tom make it back to the Island if all the communications were down, and the Island was always moving, according to Ms. Hawking?

My guess is either we are dealing with a continuity error in that they didn't always intend to have the Island moving, and just recently added that dialouge to further explain why they were never rescues.

Or, there is a certain timeframe between the Island's physical location shifts. Be it a few days, a week, that gave Tom enough time to get to New York and back before it changed location again. That is of course if we choose to believe Eloise when she says the Island was always moving.

im guessing its the same way the freighter folk got in an out and perhaps its not moving constantly, just occassionally

[notsolost42]

the beauty of hindsight ;)

i've been having myself a wee season 3 rewatch and when jack and tom are in the operating theatre with ben...jack asks tom why they didnt just take ben to the mainland for surgery and toms replied with 'ever since the sky turned purple...' then gets cut off.

wonder what the rest of the sentence was gonna be :confused:

When the Swan imploded and the sky turned purple the island became unteathered in time. Someone posted that entering the numbers is what kept the island from floating through spacetime and I agree. It would also fit in with the real science I posted about the whole subject. So, I think Tom's remarks were a hint that something else had happened when the Swan imploded. Now, we all know what it was. That's what Faraday's picture shows, along with the copy found in the Hydra by Caesar. It is of the island floating through spacetime. I posted all the long and boring info about the science behind the formulas on the map in another thread. It fits.

[bunnydixon]

i wonder if its the opposite...the island was moving and that made it become stationary temporarily?

bens co-ordinates he gave to michael were different than the ones lapidus uses. i know this was discussed in length before that this was due to them being given from different islands...but i wonder if its actually more than that? and the others were unaware of the new co-ordinates initially? okay, im thinking on the spot here....this may well be a load of crap lol and i'd need to go back and watch that ep to see if the sky turns purple once michael is on his merry way or before.

[notsolost42]

i wonder if its the opposite...the island was moving and that made it become stationary temporarily?

bens co-ordinates he gave to michael were different than the ones lapidus uses. i know this was discussed in length before that this was due to them being given from different islands...but i wonder if its actually more than that? and the others were unaware of the new co-ordinates initially? okay, im thinking on the spot here....this may well be a load of crap lol and i'd need to go back and watch that ep to see if the sky turns purple once michael is on his merry way or before.

Be careful Bunny, don't hurt yourself now.:p

[bunnydixon]

Be careful Bunny, don't hurt yourself now.:p


only if all my dvds fall on me when im hunting out that episode ;)

[Linus_Security Blanket]

what if...and stay with me on this one it gets confusing...since lost has pretty much no sense of time at all, and one can time hop, maybe tom went and talked to michael months or even years before the show even started. ben could have told him exactly what to say and what this guy looked like and pretend to know him, etc (because ben always seems to have all the answers, almost like someone went back in time and told him)

i know that sounds crazy and hopefully i explained it well

[Dead but Here]

I don't believe the Swan imploded. I think it moved. Des turning the key was a mini version of turning the wheel. Same light and noise. And it spit the people out. It wouldn't have done that if it simply imploded. John, Des, Charlie and Eko would have been imploded with it. They just woke up in the jungle the way Ben and John woke up in the desert.

Another point.... Casimir Effect is about wormholes, if I'm not mistaken, created in space between electromagnets. Remember in the beginning there would be whispers, and then the others would just appear and vanish? That just sort of stopped. The worm holes are time AND space. What if they used that for transportation? And with the Swan gone....

[notsolost42]

I don't believe the Swan imploded. I think it moved. Des turning the key was a mini version of turning the wheel. Same light and noise. And it spit the people out. It wouldn't have done that if it simply imploded. John, Des, Charlie and Eko would have been imploded with it. They just woke up in the jungle the way Ben and John woke up in the desert.

Another point.... Casimir Effect is about wormholes, if I'm not mistaken, created in space between electromagnets. Remember in the beginning there would be whispers, and then the others would just appear and vanish? That just sort of stopped. The worm holes are time AND space. What if they used that for transportation? And with the Swan gone....

The Casimir Effect is not about wormholes. It is about vacuums and movement within them. The Swan imploded. Period. It crumbled up like a little piece of paper due to the EM. Period. Did you watch the epi?

[Dead but Here]

I did watch the ep. It was crumpling up. Everything metal was headed for the big cement wall. And then Des turned the failsafe key. And then there was light and noise and it was gone, but the people were laying around in the jungle. The others who were on the dock with Jack, Sawyer and Kate acted like it was something that happens every day. They knew what it was.

[notsolost42]

I did watch the ep. It was crumpling up. Everything metal was headed for the big cement wall. And then Des turned the failsafe key. And then there was light and noise and it was gone, but the people were laying around in the jungle. The others who were on the dock with Jack, Sawyer and Kate acted like it was something that happens every day. They knew what it was.

Here, see if this helps. It's quantum physics.

[Dead but Here]

I know about the mirrors. I'm talking about theory, as it might apply to a science fiction show. I'm tired and in the middle of studying a dozen formulas at once for a test tomorrow. Perhaps I should have been more clear.

The Dharma video mentions Casimir Effect. How would that apply to a whole island that moves around in time? It's a science fiction show. There are theories about Casimir Effect and worm holes. ABC doesn't actually have to be able to DO it or even prove it to make a show about it.

[notsolost42]

I know about the mirrors. I'm talking about theory, as it might apply to a science fiction show. I'm tired and in the middle of studying a dozen formulas at once for a test tomorrow. Perhaps I should have been more clear.

The Dharma video mentions Casimir Effect. How would that apply to a whole island that moves around in time? It's a science fiction show. There are theories about Casimir Effect and worm holes. ABC doesn't actually have to be able to DO it or even prove it to make a show about it.

Well, I don't know what formulas you're studying but I guess none of them are the Casimir Effect, Kerr Metric, Einstein's Field Theory, etc. That's okay. Keep up the good work and you'll get there. As one who has been there, done that, I can tell you that the show has a great deal of real physics behind it. For me, it makes it easier to follow the show. For others, well, they just get real confused and don't seem to know the difference between a four dimensional manifold of spacetime and manmade linear time.
I think the show is headed to show that the island, if that is what it really is, is traveling in the ring sphere of a Stationary Black Hole. Read about them. They are pretty cool. I have always been fascinated at how the show blends physics, sci-fi and interpersonal character relationships so well. Very, very cool.
Go study! Good luck.

[MrsBoone]

Thank you most intelligent one for even sharing space for us lower beings (or is it we?)
Sometimes a tv show is JUST entertainment
I don't think abc is trying to exclude us from understanding what's going on - you think this show is only for physicists?

[Dead but Here]

Actually, you are right. None of these formulas have anything to do with the casimir effect. My interests have more to do with behavioral neuroscience than physics. My understanding of it is rudimentary and the math of time travel is not light reading. As far as lost goes, though, I do know that the physics equations on the board are real.... but not all of their science is sound. For instance, the needle Juliet asked for to do a c section is about the size of a pinky. Maybe she was going to give Amy a cool piercing while she was at it. The giant needle is about the only thing she asked for that even really exists. Thankfully, they seem to know more about physics than medicine (or make more of an effort to find people who do know something). I think you might be disappointed if you expect the entire premise to fit neatly into hard proven science, though. I'm thinking it's more likely to be based on a pretty wild theory.

[bunnydixon]

and they don't know so much about court proceddings eithers...guess thie reserachers are focusing all theor energies elsewhere lol :p

[notsolost42]

Thank you most intelligent one for even sharing space for us lower beings (or is it we?)
Sometimes a tv show is JUST entertainment
I don't think abc is trying to exclude us from understanding what's going on - you think this show is only for physicists?

Boy, for a newbie, you sure fit in here.

[notsolost42]

Actually, you are right. None of these formulas have anything to do with the casimir effect. My interests have more to do with behavioral neuroscience than physics. My understanding of it is rudimentary and the math of time travel is not light reading. As far as lost goes, though, I do know that the physics equations on the board are real.... but not all of their science is sound. For instance, the needle Juliet asked for to do a c section is about the size of a pinky. Maybe she was going to give Amy a cool piercing while she was at it. The giant needle is about the only thing she asked for that even really exists. Thankfully, they seem to know more about physics than medicine (or make more of an effort to find people who do know something). I think you might be disappointed if you expect the entire premise to fit neatly into hard proven science, though. I'm thinking it's more likely to be based on a pretty wild theory.

Their mediacal science has been off before as well. Something about an xray that was not what they said it was.

[bunnydixon]

and they don't know so much about court proceddings eithers...guess thie reserachers are focusing all theor energies elsewhere lol :p

whoa - do NOT try to post and make dinner at the same time lol!!!