Scene Discrepancies

[ortrules]

Here are my latest thoughts on all the scene discrepancies people have been pointing out. If we are to assume that these discrepancies are done on purpose and are not errors, this is how I see it.

Almost every episode is based around one character and their flashbacks/flashforwards. So let's say that Lost is like a documentary where different people are retelling their events on the island. So a Kate centric episode and her flashbacks reveal how she remembers a scene. Jack's flashbacks reveal how he remembers it. etc etc. So along the way, each person's story is bound to have some minor inconsistencies.

For instance, in the pilot episodes they show the experiences of Kate, Charlie, and Jack minutes before the plane crash. In each of their flashbacks, the flight attendant says different words.

In Jack's flashback she says "Ladies and gentlemen, the Pilot has switched on the fasten seatbelt signs."

In Charlie's flashback she says, "Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain has turned on the fasten seatbelt signs."

In Kate's flashback she says, "Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain has switched on the fasten seatbelt signs."

Each person is simply remembering a slightly different story. In other words, as they retell this story, they all remember the same general statement by the flight attendant, but they each heard or remember it slightly different. This can also be applied to the scene discrepancies we've seen in the dock scenes with Ben, Jack, Kate, Sayid, and Sun.

So I'm going to say that each discrepancy is because each character is remembering how things happened or what was said slightly different. The Jack centric flashback is slightly different than the Kate centric flashback because of this.

[HisNameIsRobertPaulson]

You are crazy, ALL of these mistakes are in there for a reason, and we were supposed to identify them all and incorporate them into the story:

http://www.moviemistakes.com/tv4719

:D

[yokogleeton]

You are crazy, ALL of these mistakes are in there for a reason, and we were supposed to identify them all and incorporate them into the story:

http://www.moviemistakes.com/tv4719

:D

...and for all the continuity errors from the first season some seem to still hold TPTB to the highest of standards.

Lousy writers just have us looking for some many clues people are seeing ones that aren't there....buncha snot nosed punks...i'd like to settle their hash.

[chester]

So, any flashback scene is just someones memory of the event, not a supposedly third-person view of the event itself? Does this include flash-forwards? And are you sure the on-island scenes are different? Could every scene just be someones memory of the event?

[natego]

Here are my latest thoughts on all the scene discrepancies people have been pointing out. If we are to assume that these discrepancies are done on purpose and are not errors, this is how I see it.

Almost every episode is based around one character and their flashbacks/flashforwards. So let's say that Lost is like a documentary where different people are retelling their events on the island. So a Kate centric episode and her flashbacks reveal how she remembers a scene. Jack's flashbacks reveal how he remembers it. etc etc. So along the way, each person's story is bound to have some minor inconsistencies.

For instance, in the pilot episodes they show the experiences of Kate, Charlie, and Jack minutes before the plane crash. In each of their flashbacks, the flight attendant says different words.

In Jack's flashback she says "Ladies and gentlemen, the Pilot has switched on the fasten seatbelt signs."

In Charlie's flashback she says, "Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain has turned on the fasten seatbelt signs."

In Kate's flashback she says, "Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain has switched on the fasten seatbelt signs."

Each person is simply remembering a slightly different story. In other words, as they retell this story, they all remember the same general statement by the flight attendant, but they each heard or remember it slightly different. This can also be applied to the scene discrepancies we've seen in the dock scenes with Ben, Jack, Kate, Sayid, and Sun.

So I'm going to say that each discrepancy is because each character is remembering how things happened or what was said slightly different. The Jack centric flashback is slightly different than the Kate centric flashback because of this.

Don't think I really buy this theory.. they never make any effort to show scenes as being "narrated" by one character. When they flashback, they don't always show a character start to think back before the flashback occurs, which is a technique that I think would imply the character is thinking about the previous events.. it just jumps there usually at random... then again, i could go back and pay more attention to be sure..

[ortrules]

not a supposedly third-person view of the event itself? Does this include flash-forwards? And are you sure the on-island scenes are different? Could every scene just be someones memory of the event?

Technically, it is a 3rd person viewpoint. However, an episode that is centric to one character is telling their specific story. In He's Our You, we are pretty much watching the events as Sayid sees them. His interactions with Ben are from his point of view and not Bens. In this last episode, we saw the events unfold through Kate's perspective and she was the driving force in the episode.

In this theory, it's like the stories are biographical. Someone is interviewing these people and then telling the story for them from their perspective. The stories that Sayid and Kate give are similar, but there will be some discrepancies between both stories depending on their viewpoint of how things unfolded.

[Panda]

So, any flashback scene is just someones memory of the event, not a supposedly third-person view of the event itself? Does this include flash-forwards? And are you sure the on-island scenes are different? Could every scene just be someones memory of the event?

Yes even on the Island could be just someone's memory about a certain event. And the one who is shown in the event may even not be the one that really lived it....but just experience the memory of this event that once was lived by someone else.

If we see Sayid in the DI jail. It is not the memory of Sayid in the DI jail that we see. We see Sayid experience the memory of the one who was in the DI jail at the time those events took place. Up to us to find out who that could have been.
If we see flash back's off Island of Sayid, it are his own memories.
So on the Island memories can be overwritten....?

Just guessing again, as always

[Panda]

In this theory, it's like the stories are biographical. Someone is interviewing these people and then telling the story for them from their perspective. The stories that Sayid and Kate give are similar, but there will be some discrepancies between both stories depending on their viewpoint of how things unfolded.

And who is the one that takes the interviews in this theory?

[Jeremy]

I more or less agree. Multiple universes is too complicated, and errors as big as these would've been fixed.

Overall it seems the storytelling is a bit different this season, what with flashlacks for a while, seeing Locke's letter to Jack before he writes it, Ben being in the Hydra before being knocked out, Charlotte's death before seeing her as a kid, etc.

[ortrules]

And who is the one that takes the interviews in this theory?

The creators of the show I guess. It's just the idea that someone interviewed all these people, got their stories, and then retold those stories to us - but there is no actual interviewer.

[ortrules]

Overall it seems the storytelling is a bit different this season, what with flashlacks for a while, seeing Locke's letter to Jack before he writes it, Ben being in the Hydra before being knocked out, Charlotte's death before seeing her as a kid, etc.

This is an interesting way to look at it. It really does seem like they are doing this throughout season 5. They are showing the ending before they show how it happened.

It's like someone is telling us this is what happens, and then we watch as the story builds to get to that point.

[Panda]

The creators of the show I guess. It's just the idea that someone interviewed all these people, got their stories, and then retold those stories to us - but there is no actual interviewer.

Ah I see. I misunderstood. I thought the one retelling all the stories would be part of the story.

[islander]

Ort that explanation is too damm reasonable and straightforward....c'mon. :D

How about this - TPTB are using different shots of some scenes to mess with us and keep their options open. Like WHH, they can always just say, as you put it, the scene's are based on the character's memory, but they also have the option to go more sci-fi if they want to?

[etfrompo]

This might be a way of explaining things. Sayid is an expert shot, but as emotional as he was prior to shooting little Ben, he could believe he hit the spot exactly. But when JIn turns him over we see the reality that Sayids shot really hit on the right side. I may have to go back and watch some other scenes with this idea in mind.

[kwatt99]

Certainly could explain why Ben's gunshot wound moved all the way across his body.

[chester]

Well it's one way of explaining the discepancies. Don't see how it enhances the storyline though :p

[swaded420]

I don't see this as an explanation.. Sayid was emotional, shot Ben, thought he hit him in the heart (or at least on the other side of his chest), we saw the bullet hole in his clothes on the left side, and then it turns out he was shot in the right side? Ehh..

The only way I could imagine this 'discrepancy' being explained is with an alternate universe, but that's the problem.. I don't believe that alternate universes or timelines are a factor in this show, which means that.. I can't imagine any way that the wound would switch sides without a continuity error, and since I think this is way too obvious to be a continuity error as well, I don't really know what happened.. wait, why am I posting this then? My bad.

[notsolost42]

Ort, if you can explain to me how John Locke continued to remember what happened after Ben killed him then I will have to agree with you. But since there is no way that Locke was remembering his story and kind of retelling it after he died, no, I just don't see it at all. That was a Locke centric episode and this theory doesn't seem to apply at all. And as for when Ben was shot by Sayid, do you mean that it was Sayid's memory of the event that he shot Ben in the heart and then the next episode it was Kate's memory that he was shot in the right chest? I just don't get that one at all then. I could see your line of thinking. It is very logical in the sequences of what we saw. Your way of thinking tends to try and be very clean cut and logical. You seem to tend towards the black and white of things and don't account for the grey. But the sequences were not always logical. Who's memory was it when Kate woke up by the pond when they returned? Was it someone in the beginning of the episode and someone else at the end when she said something different? Or did she remember it both ways. Now you are confusing me! See, this could be a very grey area. Arggghhh!!!

[etfrompo]

Just because it was a Locke centric episode, it doesn't mean every scene is from Lockes memories. If we see things repeated two or three times and each is slightly different, it most likely means we are seeing different peoples viewpoint. We sort of saw that when they had Nikki and Paulo added to the crash scenes. We saw things from different viewpoints. It may be that TPTB have their own criteria for which scenes are important enough to be shown with the different views.

[swaded420]

Just because it was a Locke centric episode, it doesn't mean every scene is from Lockes memories. If we see things repeated two or three times and each is slightly different, it most likely means we are seeing different peoples viewpoint. We sort of saw that when they had Nikki and Paulo added to the crash scenes. We saw things from different viewpoints. It may be that TPTB have their own criteria for which scenes are important enough to be shown with the different views.

I really think that showing a scene that we've already seen before from a different point of view is really for the sake of that episode, not the whole series. They're showing it from a different angle to highlight different events of the past scene as they pertain to the story that's being told. So when we saw Paulo and Nikki's island adventures, we were being shown different POVs of things that already happened on the island not because we were getting their side to the story, but more so because we're watching their part of the story, and since we already saw it all, why waste precious seconds (that could be spent answering questions so that people stop losing their minds on forums =D) reiterating moments that don't really matter in their part of story?

[etfrompo]

why waste precious seconds (that could be spent answering questions so that people stop losing their minds on forums =D) reiterating moments that don't really matter in their part of story?

precious seconds of air time to show more answers to our questions as well.=D)

[Epy]

Ort, I have to ask, did you read Things I Noticed - "Whatever Happened, Happened" by Vozzek69 (http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2009/04/things-i-noticed-whatever-happened.html) on DarkUFO? Because he has the same idea.

I think this is totally what is happening. I think we are seeing things through the characters perspective and memories, and were being "tricked" into thinking were seeing a third person perspective.

If this is whats happening, its absolutely genius.

[notsolost42]

Anyone who has doubts about these inconsistancies being purposful needs to read this very long thread. It is on another forum, The Fuselage. The thread was started in November 2005 and has documented inconsistancies since. Holy mackrel!!!! There have been as many as Ort says there should be. I don't think you have to be a member just to read the threads.


Just go to:
http://www.TheFuselage.com

The thread is called Visual Inconsistancies and is in the Lost General Theories section.

This thread is huge, so take your timje. Scan through different pages. You will not believe it all!

[etfrompo]

Thanks for the heads up. It sounds worth checking out.

[chester]

The only way I could imagine this 'discrepancy' being explained is with an alternate universe, but that's the problem.. I don't believe that alternate universes or timelines are a factor in this show, which means that.. I can't imagine any way that the wound would switch sides without a continuity error, and since I think this is way too obvious to be a continuity error as well, I don't really know what happened.. wait, why am I posting this then? My bad.

The discrepancies don't have to suggest "alternate" universes, or a fake third-person account of subjective memories for events. In fact, subjective memories of events has been shown to be so bad, they should be showing alot more discrepancies than they are, if that were the case - apart from just being an extremely convoluted attempt to save WHAH. The other option is that there is one universe with a constantly changing history, some changes of which we have witnessed in truly objective third-person accounts.

[Baibe]

I really like the theory that the flashbacks/forwards are told thru a or many person's memory and that is why certain little things may be different within the show and how it ties into the story... but with the case to all the discrepencies and the website someone posted about the mistakes (not the Fuselage one becuz I haven't been there yet) it could simply be a case of too many takes.

For example...The first one was good but let's do it again. Oh well Jack was more sweaty in this scene but the acting is betta in this one, or Dan does a second take and places his hands differently for more dramtics... whateva, so let's cut and paste with how we (TPTB) want it to come across and maybe no one will notice. But of course us Lostnatics do (not me so much but I do thank er'one who notices this stuff).

But with the case of Sayid shooting Ben and then how Jin found him this theory seems plausible. But then again Sayid hasn't been known to miss at such close range and plus with being an assassin and all. I think they may have been for, again dramtic effect because that episode did go off with him shooting Ben. IMHO just a way to add suspense but of course we should know that ben won't die becuz Ben doesn't die and all this becomes WHH (simply depending on the view... like Ort suggest)... (I think)

[Newbie]

episode : He's Our you--
Sayid says only to Ben, "If I see you again, it will be extremely unpleasant for us both. .....(Sayid centric)
While, in "This Place Is Death", Sayid addresses both Jack and Ben by saying "If I see you, or him again, it will be extremely unpleasant for all of us." ......(kate centric)...(Kate's line in this scene is also said differently)

Each person's memory is what we are seeing in flashbacks...very interesting?
--maybe an "Illusion"...the name of the boat?--

[ortrules]

Ort, I have to ask, did you read Things I Noticed - "Whatever Happened, Happened" by Vozzek69 (http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2009/04/things-i-noticed-whatever-happened.html) on DarkUFO? Because he has the same idea.

I think this is totally what is happening. I think we are seeing things through the characters perspective and memories, and were being "tricked" into thinking were seeing a third person perspective.

If this is whats happening, its absolutely genius.

Honestly, I did not. I rarely go to DarkUFO for fear of reading something that I don't want to. But I'm glad somebody else had this thought - I think it's very logical.

[ortrules]

Ort, if you can explain to me how John Locke continued to remember what happened after Ben killed him then I will have to agree with you. But since there is no way that Locke was remembering his story and kind of retelling it after he died, no, I just don't see it at all. That was a Locke centric episode and this theory doesn't seem to apply at all. And as for when Ben was shot by Sayid, do you mean that it was Sayid's memory of the event that he shot Ben in the heart and then the next episode it was Kate's memory that he was shot in the right chest? I just don't get that one at all then. I could see your line of thinking. It is very logical in the sequences of what we saw. Your way of thinking tends to try and be very clean cut and logical. You seem to tend towards the black and white of things and don't account for the grey. But the sequences were not always logical. Who's memory was it when Kate woke up by the pond when they returned? Was it someone in the beginning of the episode and someone else at the end when she said something different? Or did she remember it both ways. Now you are confusing me! See, this could be a very grey area. Arggghhh!!!

I don't even know what you're saying. The only Locke centric episode this season was the Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham - so what is Locke remembering after he died? Stories are told from multiple people. Just because it's Locke-centric doesn't mean they don't throw in someone else's perspective of the event - such as Ben saying "I'll really miss you John."

When Sayid shot Ben, he did it pretty quickly and then rushed off. For all he knows, he successfully shot Ben in the heart and killed him. Then we find out that in reality Ben wasn't shot in the heart at all.

The scene at the pond when Kate, Jack, and Hurley is a combination of the same event told from the perspective of all 3 of them. It doesn't have to be limited to one person

I don't think this theory is black and white at all. There are many many gray areas to it - this is the point of a discussion board. I'm sorry that you see my logical arguments as black and white, but they are not at all like that. A black and white argument would be "Is there time travel, or is there not time travel?" And then the subsequent gray area is, how are they handling time travel, what are they doing with it? My idea of WHH is very much a gray area.

[ortrules]

Well it's one way of explaining the discepancies. Don't see how it enhances the storyline though :p

Same way the different perspectives enhanced your favorite book "Rant".

[meiyoki]

come on give credit were credit is due ortrules you totally jack the theory from that darkufo post Epy was talking about .

[chester]

Same way the different perspectives enhanced your favorite book "Rant".

Ah, so you think LOST is like Rant now? I'll go with you on that - the different perpectives there enhanced a story that described a changeable history.

[wiley]

If all or most of the scene discrepancy's are somehow clues or intentional. Then I wonder why in the Lampost on the big board where the Longitude and Latitude were displayed were they backwards? Does this somehow mean the earth is tilted 90 degrees?

[Newbie]

Didn't someone on this board have a theory about a "Mirror" universe?
Alot of these "errors" can be seen on the opposite side..like looking at it in a Mirror. opposite side..black and white..ying and yang??
Last epi: they show kate looking for aaron through a mirror image?
was ben's shooting a mirror image??
I couldnt find who posted this theory or the original thread to better explain it?

[ortrules]

come on give credit were credit is due ortrules you totally jack the theory from that darkufo post Epy was talking about .

I don't read Darkufo. I came up with this on my own after considering all the talk on this board about the scene discrepancies. It is possible for more than one person to think on their own and I have no reason to steal ideas. I've been a member on this board for a long time, and anyone who knows me knows I always quote sources when I get them from somewhere else.

[notsolost42]

I don't read Darkufo. I came up with this on my own after considering all the talk on this board about the scene discrepancies. It is possible for more than one person to think on their own and I have no reason to steal ideas. I've been a member on this board for a long time, and anyone who knows me knows I always quote sources when I get them from somewhere else.

Gee Ort, they've been posting about it on the Fuselage and I saw that you followed me there and scoped things out without a single post just a few weeks ago.