Richard isn't all that special..

[TuesdaySmith]

Ok, he's probably more special than most, but to him (and to Ben), other people don't age..

Locke looks the same in 1954 as he does in 2004.

Sawyer, Kate, etc look the same in 1977 as they do in 2004.

I know I can't be the only one noticing this, so what the heck? Is Richard really that special, or if we were looking at it from Richard's eyes, would Locke, Kate, Sawyer etc be the "special" ones? I mean, from Richards eyes, and from Ben's, those people are the ones who always appear the same age. So who's to say.. anything? I mean, as far as the show goes, some people are more important than others, but as far as the grand scheme of things, aren't they all the same? In other words, as Panda said somewhere, where did the "others" start? Who the heck really is an Other? Are they all Others? Is Sawyer an Other to Richard?

[LOSTLOST]

well locke saywer and co. are special because they time traveled. But is Richard time traveling? if not he is truely the special one

[notsolost42]

Naah, Richard's not so special. He's just the Egyptian Sun God, Ra, that's all! LOL!!!

[LOSTLOST]

Naah, Richard's not so special. He's just the Egyptian Sun God, Ra, that's all! LOL!!!

hahaha im sticking with him being the younger brother of jacob

[losttime]

Richard is the one who is not aging.All the O6 time skipped so they will be their current age that they were before the time skip to where they time skip to. Richard told Locke when he was fixing his legthat he(Locke) would be moving on soon. So Richard wasnt moving through time periods the O6 were

[DeathMag84]

TuesdaySmith are you watching the same Lost that we are watching? I guess not, yeah Richard isn't special, yeah he just didn't enter into "The freaking Temple" last Wednesday night like he owned it. Good one TuesdaySmith. NOT!

[bensklm767]

TuesdaySmith are you watching the same Lost that we are watching? I guess not, yeah Richard isn't special, yeah he just didn't enter into "The freaking Temple" last Wednesday night like he owned it. Good one TuesdaySmith. NOT!

LMFAO ya I think Richard is definately special, and I like LOSTLOST's theory of hime being related to Jacob.

[Jeremy]

I think that by the time the 815 crashed, at least Richard had caught on that it would all stat there and that they would time travel. As for Ben, it may have taken until the O6 had to return.

As for Richard himself not aging, I don't think it has anything to do with time travel. Either he's undead, the very first generation of Others simply don't age, or he's not really a human...

[TuesdaySmith]

TuesdaySmith are you watching the same Lost that we are watching? I guess not, yeah Richard isn't special, yeah he just didn't enter into "The freaking Temple" last Wednesday night like he owned it. Good one TuesdaySmith. NOT!

Wow, you're a real jerk, aren't you? How sad that you feel like you have to be so mean.. you must really hate yourself..

[notsolost42]

Wow, you're a real jerk, aren't you? How sad that you feel like you have to be so mean.. you must really hate yourself..

Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

[TuesdaySmith]

So, no ideas about this from anyone except a-holes being their a-hole selves (Jeremy not included)?

Really? Noone else sees what I see? Sawyer is ageless to Richard! Ageless! Like Richard is to us!

Kate, Hurley, Miles, Juliet, Jack, Daniel.. all ageless!

I definitely think there's something to it.

[TuesdaySmith]

Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

Ha! You constantly insult people's intelligence and ideas, and when someone calls you out on it, you go crying that everyone is mean to you. Get over yourself.

[notsolost42]

So, no ideas about this from anyone except a-holes being their a-hole selves (Jeremy not included)?

Really? Noone else sees what I see? Sawyer is ageless to Richard! Ageless! Like Richard is to us!

Kate, Hurley, Miles, Juliet, Jack, Daniel.. all ageless!

I definitely think there's something to it.

Sawyer is not ageless. He went from only needing reading glasses due to being farsighted to needed glasses for driving and distance because he is now nearsighted in a matter of three short years. This does not happen normally like that. The transition to nearsightedness is caused by aging. Sawyer is young but is now aging rapidly. Just as I said that Richard was when they showed him using glasses when he helped Locke at the Beechcraft during the time flashes. The island time is now screwed up and the island is aging rapidly and so is everyone on it.
No, they are definitly not ageless!

[notsolost42]

Ha! You constantly insult people's intelligence and ideas, and when someone calls you out on it, you go crying that everyone is mean to you. Get over yourself.

LMAO!!! Who's crying now! :p

[ortrules]

Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

They do make stainless steel (silver) pots now.

[Amp]

Shut up tuesday please giving me a headache, we understand your idea its a good one, we just dont think its correct

Exhibit A: Juilet called him old.
Exhibit B: So Richard timetravels to convient times when the losties see him,
Exhbit C: He understands time travel, and pops up at certain times to makes sure it is going the right way.

How is he time travelign to these convient times again?

[notsolost42]

They do make stainless steel (silver) pots now.

Personally, I prefer the pretty colored enameled ones! LOL!!!!

[ortrules]

So, no ideas about this from anyone except a-holes being their a-hole selves (Jeremy not included)?

Really? Noone else sees what I see? Sawyer is ageless to Richard! Ageless! Like Richard is to us!

Kate, Hurley, Miles, Juliet, Jack, Daniel.. all ageless!

I definitely think there's something to it.

But Richard is always on the island. I see what you're trying to say, but Richard is really old according to Juliet and he's been living on the island since at least the 50s and still looks the same. I think Richard truly is ageless and he is not a simple case of "time traveling" like Sawyer and everyone else.

[ortrules]

Personally, I prefer the pretty colored enameled ones! LOL!!!!

I think we should make a petition to stop that old saying then! Clearly it's no longer valid. :p

[notsolost42]

I think we should make a petition to stop that old saying then! Clearly it's no longer valid. :p

Agreed then. As I was hitting enter I thought of a better one anyway. A taste of ones own medicine had come to mind but I figured I already made my point so I let it go.

[TuesdaySmith]

Sawyer is not ageless. He went from only needing reading glasses due to being farsighted to needed glasses for driving and distance because he is now nearsighted in a matter of three short years. This does not happen normally like that. The transition to nearsightedness is caused by aging. Sawyer is young but is now aging rapidly. Just as I said that Richard was when they showed him using glasses when he helped Locke at the Beechcraft during the time flashes. The island time is now screwed up and the island is aging rapidly and so is everyone on it.
No, they are definitly not ageless!

You're 100% missing my point.

They appear ageless.. Locke is the same age in '54 as he is in '04. Sawyer is the same age in '74 as he is in '04. Juliet is the same age in '74 as she is in '01 (or whenever she was recruited). Richard is the same age in '54, '77, '04. Etc.

[chester]

I think we should make a petition to stop that old saying then! Clearly it's no longer valid. :p

I think the correct saying is "that's the burnt pot...". So no matter what it might have looked like originally, burnt it should be black. Unless it's only mildly burnt I suppose, so I would be reluctant to use the saying "that's the mildly burnt pot....." becuase you might still get caught out with the "but my pot is white is flowers on it, and only mildly burnt it's still not very black at all" line of reasoning. So my answer is I think Richard is different, somehow, to our losties. :D

[TuesdaySmith]

Shut up tuesday please giving me a headache, we understand your idea its a good one, we just dont think its correct

Exhibit A: Juilet called him old.
Exhibit B: So Richard timetravels to convient times when the losties see him,
Exhbit C: He understands time travel, and pops up at certain times to makes sure it is going the right way.

How is he time travelign to these convient times again?

Who are you to tell me to "shut up"?

If you don't like it, don't read it. I don't give a crap about your headache.

[notsolost42]

You're 100% missing my point.

They appear ageless.. Locke is the same age in '54 as he is in '04. Sawyer is the same age in '74 as he is in '04. Juliet is the same age in '74 as she is in '01 (or whenever she was recruited). Richard is the same age in '54, '77, '04. Etc.

No, I am not missing your point. What you said appears true. But it is also quite obvious to those who are watching the show. So what? So, you are pointing out that Richard thinks they are agless? No, I don't think so at all. After all, he realized in the future that Locke was time jumping when he told him that when they meet after the next flash that Locke would not recognize him. So, no, Richard doesn't view them as ageless and we, the audience, or at least myself )I'll just speak for me) thinks it is obvious that they look the same. But, as I stated, they are aging rapidly. Sawyer and his driving glasses is a big fat clue that you appear to be missing.

[emmakristin]

sometimes i think richard could be part of the smoke monster? i mean, especially since the end of last episode when he just stormed into the temple where we know the smoke monster has been (the episode with rosseau and her having to shoot all her companions because of the "sickness"--btw, do we think that's what's going to happen to ben now??? when richard told then "he'll never be innocent again"..i mean BAH!)

so i just sidetracked there but, that's part of my theory. waiting for wednesday nights is so excruciating.

[ortrules]

I think the correct saying is "that's the burnt pot...". So no matter what it might have looked like originally, burnt it should be black. Unless it's only mildly burnt I suppose, so I would be reluctant to use the saying "that's the mildly burnt pot....." becuase you might still get caught out with the "but my pot is white is flowers on it, and only mildly burnt it's still not very black at all" line of reasoning. So my answer is I think Richard is different, somehow, to our losties. :D

Hmm...perhaps the saying should really be "that's the burnt bottom of the pot..." because typically only the bottom of the pot would burn, unless you're an awful cook.

[TuesdaySmith]

But Richard is always on the island. I see what you're trying to say, but Richard is really old according to Juliet and he's been living on the island since at least the 50s and still looks the same. I think Richard truly is ageless and he is not a simple case of "time traveling" like Sawyer and everyone else.

I don't agree that Richard is ageless. I do think there is more to his travelling.. like, somehow he has control over where and when he ends up, but I've never liked the "ageless" theory.. it's just never sat right with me. Of course I could end up totally wrong, but I'm going to stick with my feeling unless/until TPTB show me something different.

I think he didn't know anything about time travelling until he met Locke in '54 and then watched him disappear before his eyes. I think he knew the Island was special, but I don't think he knew how special it was at that time.

From my point of view, when Juliet says he's "really old" and Ben makes the "you do remember birthdays" comment to him, this could go along with him time travelling. I think Richard was his true age in '54. Since he appears to everyone in '04 as the same man.. 40ish, I'd consider that really old.. because he'd actually be somewhere around 100 (if he wasn't time travelling, I mean). As for the birthday comment, if Richard is jumping around in time, then there'd be no need to celebrate birthdays because there'd be no measurement of time.

There are, of course, still questions that I haven't quite answered for myself yet, but I think that our losties appearing ageless to people is really important to the show.. more than just what they do.. the actual act (it's not really an act, but I can't think of what to call it) of appearing ageless to people.

Anyone on the Island in present time, who was also on the Island in the 70's, will see the people they worked with, lived with, the people they were friends with.. all crash on the Island 30 year later, looking exactly the same as they did in the 70's.

I think that's a key to figuring out other things going on on the Island, just like I think the similarities between Ben and Sawyer is a key.

[TuesdaySmith]

No, I am not missing your point. What you said appears true. But it is also quite obvious to those who are watching the show. So what? So, you are pointing out that Richard thinks they are agless? No, I don't think so at all. After all, he realized in the future that Locke was time jumping when he told him that when they meet after the next flash that Locke would not recognize him. So, no, Richard doesn't view them as ageless and we, the audience, or at least myself )I'll just speak for me) thinks it is obvious that they look the same. But, as I stated, they are aging rapidly. Sawyer and his driving glasses is a big fat clue that you appear to be missing.

I'm not missing your "big fat clue", I just don't think it's important. And yes, you are missing my point. It's quite clear that you're still missing it. You don't seem to actually try to understand anyone else, and you seem to think you know it all. And this is exactly why I skip reading most of your posts, and why I won't be respoding to you on here again.

[chester]

Hmm...perhaps the saying should really be "that's the burnt bottom of the pot..." because typically only the bottom of the pot would burn, unless you're an awful cook.

Well, it's from back in the day when naked flames were used to used to burn pots, and the flames would go up the side and everything. But, yeah, you're right, the saying's probably due to be updated.

[notsolost42]

I'm not missing your "big fat clue", I just don't think it's important. And yes, you are missing my point. It's quite clear that you're still missing it. You don't seem to actually try to understand anyone else, and you seem to think you know it all. And this is exactly why I skip reading most of your posts, and why I won't be respoding to you on here again.

Well, if that's not your point and I am missing it then perhaps you could explain it again in a different way so I can understand it. Don't just cop out and try to pass off your bs about me not trying to understand it and feel justified to make a statement like that. That's the easiest thing you can do, the easy way out, if you can't explain what you are saying or if you actually feel unsure about what you are saying. And it is quite obvious that you do read my posts because you always seem to have something to say about them!

[notsolost42]

Well, it's from back in the day when naked flames were used to used to burn pots, and the flames would go up the side and everything. But, yeah, you're right, the saying's probably due to be updated.

Old Aussie statment I presume? Burnt pot and all that?

[TuesdaySmith]

..So my answer is I think Richard is different, somehow, to our losties. :D

I also think he is different. I'm not saying that I think they're exactly alike, but I think there's more to the fact that our losties appear ageless to many people. More than just the "obvious". I've been looking at the similarities..

Like how Richard knows (when he helps Locke with his wound and gives him the compass) that the next time Locke flashes, he won't recognize him. He appears to us that he's ageless and he knows all. But, in reality (if we can call it that), he might just know this because he remembers Locke coming into the camp in '54.

And now that our losties are flashing, they "know" certain things.. they know little Ben's future.. they know who that little baby Ethan grows up to be.. they know about the Purge.. etc.. they might not know exact things (like Richard seems to), but they might later on.

[chester]

Old Aussie statment I presume? Burnt pot and all that?

The burnt bit was just the latest update - before the possibility of needing to include a reference to the bottom of the pot as well, as Ort mentioned. We like to keep up-to-date here. There is still the issue that kettles come in different colours and levels of blackness, or not, as well. So maybe it should be pointed out that the kettle is burnt too. Unless the saying; "that's the (burnt (bottom of the)) pot calling the kettle black" is meant that the black pot is merely seeing it's blackness reflected in the shiny surface of the kettle. In which case the shinyness of the kettle should probably be stipulated in the saying.

[notsolost42]

The burnt bit was just the latest update - before the possibility of needing to include a reference to the bottom of the pot as well, as Ort mentioned. We like to keep up-to-date here. There is still the issue that kettles come in different colours and levels of blackness, or not, as well. So maybe it should be pointed out that the kettle is burnt too. Unless the saying; "that's the (burnt (bottom of the)) pot calling the kettle black" is meant that the black pot is merely seeing it's blackness reflected in the shiny surface of the kettle. In which case the shinyness of the kettle should probably be stipulated in the saying.

You are completly hysterical!!! LOL!!! I think that the origination of the phrase was actually from a time when all pots and kettles were made of cast iron and they were all black!!! LOL!!!! So, yes, modernization is apparently needed!!!

[chester]

I also think he is different. I'm not saying that I think they're exactly alike, but I think there's more to the fact that our losties appear ageless to many people. More than just the "obvious". I've been looking at the similarities..

Like how Richard knows (when he helps Locke with his wound and gives him the compass) that the next time Locke flashes, he won't recognize him. He appears to us that he's ageless and he knows all. But, in reality (if we can call it that), he might just know this because he remembers Locke coming into the camp in '54.

And now that our losties are flashing, they "know" certain things.. they know little Ben's future.. they know who that little baby Ethan grows up to be.. they know about the Purge.. etc.. they might not know exact things (like Richard seems to), but they might later on.

Yes, I agree. There is nothing to rule out the possibility that Richard's assumed agelessness is a false assumption and he is only time-travelling like the losties in the different times and scenes we have seen him in. It's just the context provided by other parts of the storyline that makes most of us think that Richards case is different, that he doesn't age.

[friendly1013]

In analyzing Richard Alperts situation like to take in to account three observations.

1. Richard Alpert appears not to age, and it is hinted at by Juliet that he is indeed very very old.

2. Richard Alpert is a leader in his particular group, and is able to enter and leave the temple as he wishes.

3. Richard Alpert, when confronted with time travelling losties, always seems to have a geniunely perplexed reaction, as if he was learning new information that he was perviously not privy to, i.e. time travelling.

Now, I surmise that an aspect of the temple is not necessarily to time travel, but is it possible that while inside the temple, one does not age? So perhaps Richard ages only when he is outside it's confines. Just one theory. For Richard Alpert does indeed age, as he is a fully grown adult. Either that or he was manifested in a fully grown adult form, which is a can of worms that can lead to a multitude of theories.

My impression is that, while he does not age, he somehow was not aware of the donkey wheel nor of time travel until confronted by Locke. To put his skeptism to rest, Locke implores him to visit Locke in the hospital as a child. I am quite firm in my belief that Alpert was extremely skeptical of Locke's claim that he was from the future, and thus needed to see the proof for himself.

It is quite interesting to see the moments in which Alpert seems perplexed. It shows that while he definately has a very special role and is distinct from all other characters we have met on the island, there is information that has missed him some how.

There is an entire story here. The time travelling losties have some mystique and power in the mind of Richard, which is why Sawyer was able to avoid an all out war by making Alpert privy to the fact that he was indeed a time traveller. This exchange creates an interesting dynamic; Richard knows that certain people in the D.I. are alien and from another time, yet the rest of the D.I. does not seem to even suspect such a thing to be possible. Because of this dynamic, Richard and the hostiles have a special relationship with the D.I. losties. This leads me our most recent instance of Alpert's preplexity.

Alpert's radar is correct in finding Kate's presence to be odd. There is an important revelation during this episode. Alpert and Widmore appear to be involved in a power struggle.

According to the rank and file hostiles, Alpert's position is seen as subservient to Charles and... was it Jacob? But Alpert's sharp rebuttal seems to suggest that he is unhappy with this arrangement and whats more, is not physcially subservient to it; he can indeed do whatever he wants. Whether there may be consequences we do not yet know. But this does set up a power struggle in which Charles Widmore is banished from the island.

There is much more than meets the eye when it comes the hostiles. I believe we may find out that they are not so special, so much as privy to certian information that allows them to appear superior. It is akin to possesing a technology that one does not fully understand except that it can be made to give a desired result. In such a case the process is not understood yet the result is well understood, and such a situation does often breed a power struggle as lower minds attempt to covet something they perceive to be a powerful and unique asset, such as nuclear technology.

And we may just find out that this power or knowledge is indeed somehow connected to nuclear technology...

[littlemelody86]

I have a feeling that Richard is that special. Do you think that someone just becomes the leader of the others and knows everything right away? Probably not. I would think that being their leader is quite a big job. It seems to me that Richard knows all the inner workings of the island but for some reason(maybe connected with the fact that he's the only character so far that we have seen multiple times that doesn't age) he cannot lead the people himself. So he is there as, for lack of a better word, consultant or ally to the leader. He leads them to what is best for the island. Maybe I'm wrong but that's the way I looked at it.

[Lupernikas]

sorry Tuesday but during each flashback we've seen, Richard appears to be living with and leading the Others....not just flashing about in order to appear in time for the Losties to see him but living amongst them.....he's NOT time travelling I'm sure of that, he's doing something entirely different.....

while I see the merits of your theory I'm not sure all of the evidence fits.....Richard has always been there and always will be; he is some kind of constant but I think we're just starting to scratch the surface of his complexity..

Richard isn't the 'leader' per se, he seems to have taken on the role of 'caretaker' and 'adviser' to the leaders though; only taking action when he thinks it's totally necessary.....odd thing is he never acts subservient; rather completely laissez faire....it's odd but I think we'll find more out about him soon

[DeathMag84]

Wow, you're a real jerk, aren't you? How sad that you feel like you have to be so mean.. you must really hate yourself..
Well, don't say something stupid and you won't get a smarta** remark.

[Camotyger20]

2. Richard Alpert is a leader in his particular group, and is able to enter and leave the temple as he wishes.

But you are only basing this off of he's the only one we've seen enter the temple. For all we know anyone can enter the temple. I do not believe this alone establishes him as the leader. I'm not saying he isn't the leader. Obviously from this weeks coming episode we see Ben enter the temple and we know Richard is still around in 07', so who's the leader?

It looked to me, that he wasn't aware during Locke's meeting him in 54' that he knew of the time traveling.

Later on after a few tries mastering the wheel might come with testing it out, spin it this much and you jump 30 years, spin it a little and you only jump 3 years. Because it only effects the people around who turn the wheel, he could have been spining the crap out of it and no one would know the lesser.

Richard Alpert the time traveling DJ, spin that track, whicky whicky

[TuesdaySmith]

I have a feeling that Richard is that special. Do you think that someone just becomes the leader of the others and knows everything right away? Probably not. I would think that being their leader is quite a big job. It seems to me that Richard knows all the inner workings of the island but for some reason(maybe connected with the fact that he's the only character so far that we have seen multiple times that doesn't age) he cannot lead the people himself. So he is there as, for lack of a better word, consultant or ally to the leader. He leads them to what is best for the island. Maybe I'm wrong but that's the way I looked at it.

I do agree that he is seen as a leader, or a guider, for the Island, and I agree (up to the point that we've seen so far) that he is more special than other people, but I'm not convinced that he is the ultimate leader, or guider, or whatever anyone wants to call him.

He does appear to know more, and the way he does things is more of a guidance (as opposed to Ben's forcefullness for instance), but basically I just don't think he's as special as we've all been led to beleive.

What do you think about Charles and Ellie? He says he doesn't answer to them, but that guy asking if he should tell (or get them, I forget) makes me think that they're all working together. Kind of like the way Jack was the leader before they left the Island.. he wasn't really the leader, he just kind of took on the role.. at one point something happened (I wish I could remember this exactly, but I can't!) that I think had to do with Locke.. someone said something like "should we go get Jack" and Locke said that he doesn't answer to him. That's the type of similarity, between different groups of people, that makes me think there's more to the story than just "Richard is special".

[chester]

You are completly hysterical!!! LOL!!! I think that the origination of the phrase was actually from a time when all pots and kettles were made of cast iron and they were all black!!! LOL!!!! So, yes, modernization is apparently needed!!!

So before you and Ort get that petition going, you might want to consider this alternative that we can all hopefully agree on:

"Well, that's the severely burnt bottom of the pot calling the severely burnt bottom of the kettle/the shiny, reflective surface of the kettle black, and black is a bad/good/neither bad nor good thing!"

Edit: I just realised that if it's only the bottom of the pot that's black, and it's a shiny surface of the kettle that's being used, the pot might need to be turned up on it's side so it's blackness can be reflected. And also if you're using the shiny kettle and black is bad, you need to make sure you're the one who is seen as the kettle.

[TuesdaySmith]

sorry Tuesday but during each flashback we've seen, Richard appears to be living with and leading the Others....not just flashing about in order to appear in time for the Losties to see him but living amongst them.....he's NOT time travelling I'm sure of that, he's doing something entirely different.....

while I see the merits of your theory I'm not sure all of the evidence fits.....Richard has always been there and always will be; he is some kind of constant but I think we're just starting to scratch the surface of his complexity..

Richard isn't the 'leader' per se, he seems to have taken on the role of 'caretaker' and 'adviser' to the leaders though; only taking action when he thinks it's totally necessary.....odd thing is he never acts subservient; rather completely laissez faire....it's odd but I think we'll find more out about him soon

How are you so sure he's not time travelling? I used to think that, but now I'm not so sure. I know I could totally be wrong about him, but since this season started, my thoughts about him have been totally thrown off track. You seem to feel strongly about it though, and I'm interested why.

I don't agree that Richard has always been there, because when Locke met him in '54, I don't think he believed him about being from the future until Locke disappeared before his eyes. Again, that's something I could be wrong about, but to me it seems that Locke is only special because Richard etc. made him special, because they met Locke in '54.. like a cycle. I feel like something similar could be happening with Richard.

[smthng2dowthlost]

How are you so sure he's not time travelling? I used to think that, but now I'm not so sure. I know I could totally be wrong about him, but since this season started, my thoughts about him have been totally thrown off track. You seem to feel strongly about it though, and I'm interested why.

I don't agree that Richard has always been there, because when Locke met him in '54, I don't think he believed him about being from the future until Locke disappeared before his eyes. Again, that's something I could be wrong about, but to me it seems that Locke is only special because Richard etc. made him special, because they met Locke in '54.. like a cycle. I feel like something similar could be happening with Richard.

IMO Seeing a time traveler wouldn't be confusing if you were a time traveler.

[Snape]

So, no ideas about this from anyone except a-holes being their a-hole selves (Jeremy not included)?

Really? Noone else sees what I see? Sawyer is ageless to Richard! Ageless! Like Richard is to us!

Kate, Hurley, Miles, Juliet, Jack, Daniel.. all ageless!

I definitely think there's something to it.

Richard does see people at different ages at different periods in his life.

Notably: Locke (visited him when he was a kid), Ben (first interacted with him when he was a kid), and Juliet (visited her when she was recruited - she was a bit younger than she was on the Island).

Edit: How could 5 pages of posts go by without this contradiction surfacing?

[kwatt99]

I've been thinking the same thing, but haven't quite been able to mesh it all together yet.

[TuesdaySmith]

Richard does see people at different ages at different periods in his life.

Notably: Locke (visited him when he was a kid), Ben (first interacted with him when he was a kid), and Juliet (visited her when she was recruited - she was a bit younger than she was on the Island).

Edit: How could 5 pages of posts go by without this contradiction surfacing?

What contradiction?

Yes, Richard sees Locke as a kid, but he also sees him being the same age in '54 and in '04.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, there is no contradiction.

[notsolost42]

What contradiction?

Yes, Richard sees Locke as a kid, but he also sees him being the same age in '54 and in '04.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, there is no contradiction.

I don't get it. Why is so hard for Richard to understand Locke time traveled to see him in 1954. Didn't he say it to Richard? And then Richard sees his normal progression through life, infancy and juvenile, then as an adult. I'm confused by the point you are trying to make.

[TuesdaySmith]

I've been thinking the same thing, but haven't quite been able to mesh it all together yet.

Me either! But there's something there.. I can't get it off my mind.. I'm trying to fit it all together, but I need more information!

[LissaMarie]

Wow. This thread is funny, interesting and sad all at the same time.

What I don't understand is why we can't just express differences in opinion without reducing it to name calling!? That is very sad. Why can't a group of adults have a spirited debate and respect each other's opinions? It shouldn't be that difficult.

How about if we disagree with someone's post, we phrase it in a respectful manner rather than in a condescending, insulting way? I think that will help a lot. And to tell someone that they are wrong when NONE OF US HAVE THE ANSWERS is ridiculous.

Now onto Richard...

I think I understand your point Tuesday and it's interesting. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think you're saying how it appears to other people, right? It appears to other people that our time-traveling losties haven't aged either.

So is the natural conclusion that Richard is a time traveler too?

[missausten]

i loooooooooove richard

[Snape]

What contradiction?

Yes, Richard sees Locke as a kid, but he also sees him being the same age in '54 and in '04.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, there is no contradiction.

The contradiction is that YOU said that to RICHARD, everyone appears ageless.

However, he sees Locke and Ben at 2 different ages. This is a contradiction of what you had said.

Therefore, logically, the original supposition must be false. <3

[berelain3]

No offense,TuesdaySmith,but you really gotta do some homework!
Richard is the most important character in this show. I don't think he's RA,but a reincarnation of this very very important Egyptian god is very much possible.
You sound like my colleague. He said the other day: I don't think the big statue in ''LaFleur'' is that important,the writers had to put in something..''
I threw a spoon at him. It would have been a brick but since I didn't have that handy,and at the the time I was having soup for lunch,I threw a spoon!

Everything that you see is important(except Nikki and Paulo) on this show. Re-watch the whole show,will ya!

[chester]

Actually, I would probably recommomend not using the saying with the shiny kettle at all. Because saying "that's the severely burnt bottom of the pot that's turned up on its side calling the shiny..." is still confusing. What part of the pot is burnt? Is the side burnt because it's now on the bottom where the burning is normally restricted to (unless you're an awful cook), in which case the unburnt bottom of the pot presumed to facing the shiny surface of the kettle, might itself be shiny, or perhaps even copper-toned? Or, is it the bottom of the pot as it's normally positioned the bit that's severely burnt and facing the reflective surface of the kettle(which is what your aiming for)? So I say, we just forget about the shiny kettle.

[2cansam]

Richard can age. He has long hair at one point. Your hair will not grow unless you age.

As far as the growth after death, it is a myth; the appearance of growth is actually caused by the retraction of skin as the surrounding tissue dehydrates, making nails and hair more prominent.

[TuesdaySmith]

Now onto Richard...

I think I understand your point Tuesday and it's interesting. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think you're saying how it appears to other people, right? It appears to other people that our time-traveling losties haven't aged either.

So is the natural conclusion that Richard is a time traveler too?

Yes.. the similarities between how Richard appears and how our losties appear is something I can't get out of my mind.. Sawyer, for example.. Sawyer looks the same age in '54 as he does in '74 as he does in '04. Anyone that may have seen him at those times would think he was ageless. We know he's not, because we know he's growing and ageing on his own timeline, but to anyone else, it would appear that he was ageless.. that he's lived from '54-'04 but he hasn't aged. Now, thinking about Richard, we've seen him in moments from '54-'04 and it looks like he hasn't aged. I'm wondering if there's more to that, than just that Richard is special. On the surface, how they appear to others is the same.. they both appear to be ageless from '54-'04. It's just that we know what's going on with Saywer, so we understand it, but we don't yet know what's going on with Richard. That's what has me questioning things.

[TuesdaySmith]

The contradiction is that YOU said that to RICHARD, everyone appears ageless.

However, he sees Locke and Ben at 2 different ages. This is a contradiction of what you had said.

Therefore, logically, the original supposition must be false. <3

I think you're just taking what I'm saying to literally.. Doing that takes away completely the point I'm trying to make.. I don't want this to turn into a semantics/grammer/whatever arguement.. if you read the other posts you can see exactly what I'm saying and there's no contradiction.

To Richard.. he sees Locke when he's a baby, when he's a little kid, when he's a teenager, and the age he is now.. yes, that happened.

BUT, Richard also sees Locke in '54 and '04 appear to be the same age.

Yes, we know a bit more of the story about how Richard appears to Locke, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he sees Locke be the same age in '54 and in '04. Widmore too.. He see's Locke in '54 and in '04, and Locke appears exactly the same. We know that he wasn't the same age through all those years, only because we've been shown that. We haven't been shown much of Richard.

[TuesdaySmith]

No offense,TuesdaySmith,but you really gotta do some homework!
Richard is the most important character in this show. I don't think he's RA,but a reincarnation of this very very important Egyptian god is very much possible.
You sound like my colleague. He said the other day: I don't think the big statue in ''LaFleur'' is that important,the writers had to put in something..''
I threw a spoon at him. It would have been a brick but since I didn't have that handy,and at the the time I was having soup for lunch,I threw a spoon!

Everything that you see is important(except Nikki and Paulo) on this show. Re-watch the whole show,will ya!

I will rewatch the whole show, as soon as this season is over, like I have after every other season. I've seen every episode probably five times, some more and some less. I don't need to do any more "homework". Just because YOU think that Richard is the most important character, doesn't mean it's true.

You said that "everything that you see is important". So, then, why would what I see not be important?

What is it with people who disagree and just assume the person they're disagreeing with is either stupid or doesn't really watch the show?? Ugh..

[TuesdaySmith]

Richard can age. He has long hair at one point. Your hair will not grow unless you age.

As far as the growth after death, it is a myth; the appearance of growth is actually caused by the retraction of skin as the surrounding tissue dehydrates, making nails and hair more prominent.

Well, some people think that Richard was dressing up in that scene, like the Others dressed up with their fake beards.

I don't agree, but it is one way to explain it.

I kind of think that Richard may have been his real age during that scene, but I haven't figured out a way to explain it yet, so I kind of just ignore it for now.

But, as someone else said, Richard does age.. because he's an adult (unless he was "born" as an adult).. so, he must have aged at some point.

[lostie108]

No, I am not missing your point. What you said appears true. But it is also quite obvious to those who are watching the show. So what? So, you are pointing out that Richard thinks they are agless? No, I don't think so at all. After all, he realized in the future that Locke was time jumping when he told him that when they meet after the next flash that Locke would not recognize him. So, no, Richard doesn't view them as ageless and we, the audience, or at least myself )I'll just speak for me) thinks it is obvious that they look the same. But, as I stated, they are aging rapidly. Sawyer and his driving glasses is a big fat clue that you appear to be missing.

OK NOTSO MAYBE I AM MISSING SOMETHING HERE BUT DIDNT SAWYER USE GLASSES BEFORE TO READ . SO THEN IF HE DOES WHY IS IT SUCH A BIG DEAL TO YOU THAT HE IS WEARING GLASSES TO DRIVE . ALSO TO ANYONE WHO IS OUT THERE READING THIS YOU ALL USED TO BE COOL AND ACTUALLY HAVE GOOD SOLID DEBATES NOW ALL I SEE ON THESE MESSAGE BOARDS IS SHUT UP , OR YOUR STUPID THAT IS WHY I CANT STAND EVEN READING ANYTHING ANY OF YOU ARE WRITING . AND SOME OF YOU ARE QUITE INTELLIGENT BUT JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE DEFINATELY DOES NOT GIVE ANY OF YOU THE RIGHT TO BE DOWNRIGHT RUDE . I MEAN IT IS ABSOLUTELY APPAULING . THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THIS WORLD SHOULD END IN 2012 . NO ONE EVEN CARES ABOUT THEIR FELLOW MAN OR WOMAN ANYMORE . IF ANY OF YOU WERE STUCK ON THIS SO CALLED MAGICAL ISLAND AND HAD THIS CRAP HAPPEN TO YOU I BET YOU WOULD ALL WANT TO BE THE LEADER AND NOTHING WOULD EVER HAPPEN YOU WOULD PROBABLY ALL ROT AND DIE . OH AND I AM NOT TRYING TO SINGLE YOU OUT NOTSO BUT I HAVE NOTICED YOU ARE STARTING TO GET A LITTLE FULL OF YOURSELF IN YOUR WRITING , ITS VERY MATTER AFACT . LIKE YOU ARE THE END ALL AND BE ALL OF LOST . SORRY YOU ALL JUST NEED TO QUIT BICKERING . I DO HAVE TO LEAVE LOCKEING AND BOUTTE OUT AND MISSIE SINCE I HAVENT SEEN ANYTHING DEROGATORY FROM THEM . DONT HATE APPRECIATE PEOPLE . ALSO A JOKE IS DIFFERENT THAN THE ALL KNOWING CRAP MOST OF YOU LIKE TO PULL . P.S. WHAT DID THE 5 FINGERS SAY TO THE FACE ............ SLAP

[smthng2dowthlost]

I don't think sawyers glasses are important:D

[ortrules]

I don't think sawyers glasses are important:D

They aren't important at all. In season 1 or 2 Jack said Sawyer needed glasses because he was far-sighted. So it's no surprise to see him wearing glasses in Dharma time when they can fit him with proper lenses.

Richard's glasses are not important either. How much do we know about Richard? Not much at all. When have we ever seen him have a need to wear glasses? Never. He put on glasses because he needed them to help Locke's wound. If we saw him pick up a book and start reading, he'd likely be wearing glasses to help see.

Wearing glasses is certainly not a sign of aging. My 5 year old nephew needs glasses and my 26 year-old fiance doesn't. There goes that idea.

[ortrules]

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THIS WORLD SHOULD END IN 2012 .

Ouch...way harsh.

[bunnydixon]

richard? he's just not that into you

:p

[yokogleeton]

TO ANYONE WHO IS OUT THERE READING THIS YOU ALL USED TO BE COOL

We know, we know....we all suck right?

harsh indeed.

[chester]

I think maybe it should just be "that's the black pot calling the black kettle black" to avoid all confusion. Except of course it might be misinterpreted as being racially relevent. So perhaps a different colour/tone should be used, would anyone be offended by blue?

[friendly1013]

But you are only basing this off of he's the only one we've seen enter the temple. For all we know anyone can enter the temple. I do not believe this alone establishes him as the leader. I'm not saying he isn't the leader. Obviously from this weeks coming episode we see Ben enter the temple and we know Richard is still around in 07', so who's the leader?

It looked to me, that he wasn't aware during Locke's meeting him in 54' that he knew of the time traveling.

Later on after a few tries mastering the wheel might come with testing it out, spin it this much and you jump 30 years, spin it a little and you only jump 3 years. Because it only effects the people around who turn the wheel, he could have been spining the crap out of it and no one would know the lesser.

Richard Alpert the time traveling DJ, spin that track, whicky whicky

Yes, that is what I said. First off, I didn't say THE leader, read closely, I said A leader. He seems to share the role with a couple and seems to be in a power struggle. Also, he DID seem perplexed by Locke, which is what my whole post was more or less about. I don't believe that he is aware of the donkey wheel for some reason.

I have a funny feeling that he is from the future, from a time of higher technology when a lot of the phenomena on the island is better understood. I am thinking Quantum Leap type of situation here, in which perhaps, in the future, they have created a wormhole to the temple or something... I don't know. I really think Richard is the man, and he doesn't seem diabolical to me... not like Ben.

[Snape]

OK NOTSO MAYBE I AM MISSING SOMETHING HERE BUT DIDNT SAWYER USE GLASSES BEFORE TO READ . SO THEN IF HE DOES WHY IS IT SUCH A BIG DEAL TO YOU THAT HE IS WEARING GLASSES TO DRIVE . ALSO TO ANYONE WHO IS OUT THERE READING THIS YOU ALL USED TO BE COOL AND ACTUALLY HAVE GOOD SOLID DEBATES NOW ALL I SEE ON THESE MESSAGE BOARDS IS SHUT UP , OR YOUR STUPID THAT IS WHY I CANT STAND EVEN READING ANYTHING ANY OF YOU ARE WRITING . AND SOME OF YOU ARE QUITE INTELLIGENT BUT JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE DEFINATELY DOES NOT GIVE ANY OF YOU THE RIGHT TO BE DOWNRIGHT RUDE . I MEAN IT IS ABSOLUTELY APPAULING . THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THIS WORLD SHOULD END IN 2012 . NO ONE EVEN CARES ABOUT THEIR FELLOW MAN OR WOMAN ANYMORE . IF ANY OF YOU WERE STUCK ON THIS SO CALLED MAGICAL ISLAND AND HAD THIS CRAP HAPPEN TO YOU I BET YOU WOULD ALL WANT TO BE THE LEADER AND NOTHING WOULD EVER HAPPEN YOU WOULD PROBABLY ALL ROT AND DIE . OH AND I AM NOT TRYING TO SINGLE YOU OUT NOTSO BUT I HAVE NOTICED YOU ARE STARTING TO GET A LITTLE FULL OF YOURSELF IN YOUR WRITING , ITS VERY MATTER AFACT . LIKE YOU ARE THE END ALL AND BE ALL OF LOST . SORRY YOU ALL JUST NEED TO QUIT BICKERING . I DO HAVE TO LEAVE LOCKEING AND BOUTTE OUT AND MISSIE SINCE I HAVENT SEEN ANYTHING DEROGATORY FROM THEM . DONT HATE APPRECIATE PEOPLE . ALSO A JOKE IS DIFFERENT THAN THE ALL KNOWING CRAP MOST OF YOU LIKE TO PULL . P.S. WHAT DID THE 5 FINGERS SAY TO THE FACE ............ SLAP

Caps lock is cruise control for "cool".

[notsolost42]

OK NOTSO MAYBE I AM MISSING SOMETHING HERE BUT DIDNT SAWYER USE GLASSES BEFORE TO READ . SO THEN IF HE DOES WHY IS IT SUCH A BIG DEAL TO YOU THAT HE IS WEARING GLASSES TO DRIVE . ALSO TO ANYONE WHO IS OUT THERE READING THIS YOU ALL USED TO BE COOL AND ACTUALLY HAVE GOOD SOLID DEBATES NOW ALL I SEE ON THESE MESSAGE BOARDS IS SHUT UP , OR YOUR STUPID THAT IS WHY I CANT STAND EVEN READING ANYTHING ANY OF YOU ARE WRITING . AND SOME OF YOU ARE QUITE INTELLIGENT BUT JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE DEFINATELY DOES NOT GIVE ANY OF YOU THE RIGHT TO BE DOWNRIGHT RUDE . I MEAN IT IS ABSOLUTELY APPAULING . THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THIS WORLD SHOULD END IN 2012 . NO ONE EVEN CARES ABOUT THEIR FELLOW MAN OR WOMAN ANYMORE . IF ANY OF YOU WERE STUCK ON THIS SO CALLED MAGICAL ISLAND AND HAD THIS CRAP HAPPEN TO YOU I BET YOU WOULD ALL WANT TO BE THE LEADER AND NOTHING WOULD EVER HAPPEN YOU WOULD PROBABLY ALL ROT AND DIE . OH AND I AM NOT TRYING TO SINGLE YOU OUT NOTSO BUT I HAVE NOTICED YOU ARE STARTING TO GET A LITTLE FULL OF YOURSELF IN YOUR WRITING , ITS VERY MATTER AFACT . LIKE YOU ARE THE END ALL AND BE ALL OF LOST . SORRY YOU ALL JUST NEED TO QUIT BICKERING . I DO HAVE TO LEAVE LOCKEING AND BOUTTE OUT AND MISSIE SINCE I HAVENT SEEN ANYTHING DEROGATORY FROM THEM . DONT HATE APPRECIATE PEOPLE . ALSO A JOKE IS DIFFERENT THAN THE ALL KNOWING CRAP MOST OF YOU LIKE TO PULL . P.S. WHAT DID THE 5 FINGERS SAY TO THE FACE ............ SLAP

Did you forget your meds this morning? I think you are having a break down or something. Get a grip!

[abcd1234]

Sawyer is not ageless. He went from only needing reading glasses due to being farsighted to needed glasses for driving and distance because he is now nearsighted in a matter of three short years. This does not happen normally like that. The transition to nearsightedness is caused by aging. Sawyer is young but is now aging rapidly. Just as I said that Richard was when they showed him using glasses when he helped Locke at the Beechcraft during the time flashes. The island time is now screwed up and the island is aging rapidly and so is everyone on it.

Where is this theory coming from? Is there anything else to support the absolutely absurd theory that everyone on the island is rapidly aging other then sawyer wears glasses when he drives? For one thing, have we ever seen sawyer driving before?

[ortrules]

I think maybe it should just be "that's the black pot calling the black kettle black" to avoid all confusion. Except of course it might be misinterpreted as being racially relevent. So perhaps a different colour/tone should be used, would anyone be offended by blue?

I think I'd go with a more dramatic color - like hot pink or electric yellow. Blue might be offensive to people with breathing problems or depression.

[Camotyger20]

Yes, that is what I said. First off, I didn't say THE leader, read closely, I said A leader. He seems to share the role with a couple and seems to be in a power struggle. Also, he DID seem perplexed by Locke, which is what my whole post was more or less about. I don't believe that he is aware of the donkey wheel for some reason.

True, you didn't say "the leader", my bad, I will read closer next time. I agree he seems to share that role with Charles, Eloise, and later Ben, sort of like a council, there maybe more leaders than we know of. I do believe all of them answer to Jacob. However, Jacob seems to stay out of the picture so much that he is unable to enforce some of the leaders decisions. Such as Ben adding Jack's name onto Jacob's list, so Jack could perform the spinal surgery and save Ben's life, which was given to Michael in order to get Walt back. Jack's name originally wasn't on that list.

Richard is how you say it "The Man", he shows compassion, as he tries to mediate some pretty bad situations, as well as a sense of justice, like when he tells Locke to enlist the help of Sawyer to kill his father that alone makes him special.

My theory has him as an egyptian, he's looking/working on a statue that he had built or is building which is located in Tunisia at the "out location", someone on the island in say 77-80' gets stuck in the cave beneath the Orchid, perhaps being attacked by a polar bear, and backs into the wheel, spinning it the opposite direction transporting the polar bear and the man to Tunisia, and the Statue and Richard to the island, the door swings both ways. Which is why there isn't anything/objects around the "out location". Just my thoughts...

[LenLen]

Yeah, but remember, Richard visited Locke when he was born, because 04 Locke told him to in 1954. So richard has seen Locke at birth, as a kid, and as an old guy, while Richard all three times appears to be the same age.

[Camotyger20]

Yeah, but remember, Richard visited Locke when he was born, because 04 Locke told him to in 1954. So richard has seen Locke at birth, as a kid, and as an old guy, while Richard all three times appears to be the same age.

I think he was time traveling and Locke was his constant.

[Sam Toomey]

To the OP, not all the losties appear ageless to Richard. He has seen Locke as a new born baby, a young boy and a young man so your theory "from Richard's POV" doesn't hold.

EDIT: Okay looks like this has already been pointed out. My bad.

[creed bratton]

sawyer has only been on the island a little more than three and a half years, yes he has travelled around 5 decades but he hasn't really aged yet because he hasn't been on that island very long...its been 8 years since i graduated hight school, but i look almost exactly the same, maybe one new wrinkle...he looked the same age in 54 and 74 and 04 because he was the same age...it was a day difference from the 54 and 74 travel...not that much aging in a day.

why doesn't julia just explain richard already?

[TuesdaySmith]

A new point from the new episode..

Richard didn't know where Locke would be (with the bullet in his leg) because he's special, he knew because Locke told him.

I'm not totally convinced any more that Richard isn't ageing because he's skipping in time, but I still don't think he's as special as he appears to be.

[Lost Down Under]

I didn't read all the posts in this thread due to bickering and talking about pots etc, so sorry if this was mentioned but.....

I agree somewhat that Richard isn't all that special. I thought that, as he has always been around "The Others" then he would be their leader. But as was pointed out in the last ep. by Ben, he's not a leader at all but rather an "advisor". I always thought it was weird how, if he was the leader, he was spoken to so rudely (especially by Ben).

I mean, he's obviously special coz he doesn't age (and he is a little bit sexy what with his manliner and all! Do you reckon he has a manbag too?!) but he's not the Head Honcho that I originally thought he was.