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csharp1990
02-20-2008, 02:25 AM
First off in no way am I taking credit for this theory it was originally posted http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45804
I am just posting it here so that you guys can have a look because this is very well developed, but there is a lot of ambiguities that can be cleared up. This was kinda similar to my theory just this is a lot more in depth, and this can be kinda confusing at times...:D



"I have been reading the huge threads on THE 31 MINUTES on many forums, and thought I'd take a step back from the complex mathematics and science put forward. I'm going to try and expand my ideas into a theory.

Firstly I think it's established that the clocks are NOT timers..the numbers are the time of day...

The difference is the island is 31 minutes into the future. We must remember that TIME is a frame of reference. It is dependent on where the observer is. For this reason, I shall talk of dimensions, and not time.

If you send something into the past it has to arrive instananeously.

if you send something into the future, it takes a bit.. hence the payload clock being 31 minutes fast/ahead

The payload took an extra 31 minutes to arrive on the island.. so according to its clock it is 3:16. Island time is in the future.

But its not as simple as time travel... time travel alone would delay incoming comms.. yet make outgoing comms instananeous.
I DO believe a wormhole is responsible for this....a portal between dimensions.

The freighter is probably parked just by the mouth of the wormhole(exact heading/bearing) so signals/anything digital(which doesn't include sound waves) arent affected by the wormhole passage.. Only things that are affected, are soundwaves, water, air and things with mass.. Light is affected, but not too much.. hence the scattering.

The sub also can travel via the wormhole..it exists in the air and water... but it must be small...like a narrow column.

Regina acknowledges the payload reaches the beacon...yet Daniel says it isnt there...the signals are in real time... She is tracking the flight on a computer screen to a blinking dot or something probably... and it flies through the wormhole. She sees in on the screen, or whatever she is using to track the payload, that it hits the mark...in her dimension... her present.

In the meantime....Frank and Jack discuss the Boston Red Sox. Then Daniels says here it comes...it lands .. Daniel refers to it as a rocket.. but it is guided electronically.. so it doesnt fit the normal description of a rocket.. but thats neither here nor there, as it probably has rocket propulsion.

He takes out the square clock and compares it to his watch.. then says "Oh no",
then he goes over the the machine and checks both clocks.

The machines clock says 2:45:02, which ticks to 2:45:03 and the rockets says 3:16 :22, which ticks to 3:16:23 and the Daniel mutters 31 minutes..

It seems like 31 seconds.. but 31 minutes has gone by... and he specifies this, and you can see the seconds digits moving moving.

The flight of the payload took an extra 31 minutes, therefore the Island dimension is ahead of world time.

While it travels 31 minutes in the wormhole.. then lands at the real beacon...the clock is 31 minutes fast... so to Daniel, Jack, and Frank.. 31 minutes later they receive it.. the future compared to Reginas present. Subsequently, the freighter is in Jack & Franks past, according to THEIR frame of reference.

BUT...as there are no DATES on the clocks....the island could be any number of days into the future....or indeed the PAST - however, we'll assume it is just 31 minutes, which may or may not be frozen due to the turning of the key. For all we know, the island dimension may be spinning into the future - THIS WAS THE INCIDENT.



This brings me to my theory. I believe now, that the 108 minutes timer, was pressed to keep the island in sync with the outside world. I beileve the extreme electromagnetic properties of the island produce the wormhole to other dimensions, and the timing differences. It is clear that comms are important. The FLAME station was a huge world monitoring station, and was designed to monitor world events in either real time or future time dependent on which type of wasves were monitored. This explains why the freighter people only use SAT phones. It's my belief that Ben/Alpert are the bad boys and Mittelos Bioscience USED the islands properties to SEE into the future. The SAW up to 108 minutes ahead, and on the reset, USED this influence to make huge killings on the stock market, and gambling on events in the outside world. Hence the money and fake passports - Ben had ultimate power, and together with the Widmore Corp, influenced many, many world events. With a "tool" that looks 108 mins into the future, think of what YOU could do - THIS is what makes the island so special, and worth fighting for. Now, people who lived long on the island, have benefited from the constant resetting of time - it behaved like a fountain of youth - making Alpert and other locals hardly age at all. However, the constant reset of time, manifested in the pregnant womens wombs. The women didn't age, but the wombs did, thus the universe course corrected and killed the mother and baby on pregnancy. I would be interested to see what happened if a LOCAL left the island - like the LOST HORIZON movie, I feel they would wither and die.

NOW...this is where the spirituality evident in the show comes into play, cos I believe FATE is the universe's way of course correcting the changes of destiny that Ben & Co have achieved. Remember what the old lady said to Desmond - the universe has a way of course correcting.

The universe was at work when it fated the people of 815 to influence the change on the island. Hurley got the lottery numbers, cos it was he knew the numbers would come up. The INCIDENT that occured was what happened in the islands future - before time was controlled. The INCIDENT was Des turning the failsafe key, so time is now on a big LOOP on the island. Initially, I suggest all this started when, DHARMA experimented with time travel, and the properties of the island, and jumping the island WELL ahead into the future. AT this point, they realised something must be done, or the universe would collapse on itself, so they sent many DHARMA people out through the wormhole at this time - into a new dimension, and into 2004 - with instructions to solve the problem, and get fate back on track. This explains how Hurley's numbers won him the lottery, how Charlie probably programmed the Looking Glass Station code, and how Sayid knew how to repair computer in the Swan, how Locke could beat the chess PC in the Flame. They knew, cos they were the scientists that devised it. However, in their NEW dimension in 2004, their lives had followed a different path, and they had lived different lives. The universe was at work however, and FATE decreed that these people were pulled back to the island on flight 815. The people with more FAITH...such as Locke etc.. had deja vu moments, and REMEMBERED his life on the island - his destiny. He KNEW he'd been here before. The men of science...Jack et all, had LITTLE recollection, so had to be guided at times (his Dad etc..). Once again, some people want to EXIT the island - the non believers, and six DO leave the island. They go into yet ANOTHER dimension and become the characters they once were - only worse. Once again, FATE (which can be described here as the universe course correcting) pulls them BACK to the island to help their friends who are now HUGELY aware of their orignial DHARMA work. BEN is almost an anti christ - USING the island for his own means, and is the BAD one in all this. Alpert and the others realise they have been DUPED by Ben, and a huge battle ensues for the island. The Losities now resume their roles as DHARMA scientists, and find their OLD bodies in the original timeline in the open grave that Locke was shown. Jack and Kate realise the two bodies in the cave are them.

The show will end with our Losties working for DHARMA, trying to control the wormhole and shift in time for the good of mankind - JUST SAVING THE WORLD.....then....enter AARON - the baby born OFF the island who came back from the future, who will gas them all in a purge......and then we'll cut to a bamboo grove to see....JACK UNCONCIOUS....

Full of HOLES at the minute, but feel free to throw questions at me and maybe we can tweak the theory....

This situation of course brings GOD and fate into play...light and dark...GOD, or JACOB, or fate...whatever you call it HAS to put destiny back to it's pre ordained way. ALL the coincidences that brought the passengers of 815 was fate, or God, or the universe course correcting and bringing things BACK into line. The question is, HOW...and THAT will be the question we're left with at the end of LOST. How can we stop this continual time loop THE INCIDENT brought about....."

heavensprincess
02-20-2008, 02:50 AM
I absolutely love that theory...I can't believe I understood it!! The best one I heard by far.

csharp1990
02-20-2008, 02:55 AM
haha good I'm glad, there are parts i'm a little confused on. I don't believe Charlie created the good vibrations code in the looking glass becuase he was so frantic about writing down the numbers when the woman was dying and trying to say them. Who knows though...

"The machines clock says 2:45:02, which ticks to 2:45:03 and the rockets says 3:16 :22, which ticks to 3:16:23"

This shows that the clocks are not on army time(24 hour format) or the time would be 14:45:03 and 15:16:23 respectively.

heavensprincess
02-20-2008, 03:18 AM
Didn't it say they were sent back not realizing that they once worked for Dharma..that could explain why Charlie didn't remember the good vibrations song. He just didn't remember his life on the island.

justme
02-20-2008, 03:48 AM
I also like this theory.

Captain Mustapha
02-20-2008, 09:03 AM
I like the idea of the Dharma scientists coming from the future. Matthew Abaddon seemed to know that he was assembling the perfect team when he spoke to Naomi, so maybe he is from the future.

I like the idea of deja-vu or 'remembering the future.' I've had a number of dreams where I saw things that happened later and in some cases met people in dreams, remembered their names, then met them in real life months later.

I like the idea of fate. I've always been a fan of mysterious shows like <em>The Prisoner</em> and <em>Twin Peaks</em>. LOST first aired in 2004. I registered the domain LOST.com in 1993.

csharp1990
02-20-2008, 05:22 PM
Here is a quote from wikipedia that kind of describes what is going on in this theory.

"Wormholes and time travel
__________________________________________________ _______________

A wormhole could allow time travel.[3] This could be accomplished by accelerating one end of the wormhole to a high velocity relative to the other, and then sometime later bringing it back; relativistic time dilation would result in the accelerated wormhole mouth aging less than the stationary one as seen by an external observer, similar to what is seen in the twin paradox. However, time connects differently through the wormhole than outside it, so that synchronized clocks at each mouth will remain synchronized to someone traveling through the wormhole itself, no matter how the mouths move around. This means that anything which entered the accelerated wormhole mouth would exit the stationary one at a point in time prior to its entry. For example, if clocks at both mouths both showed the date as 2000 before one mouth was accelerated, and after being taken on a trip at relativistic velocities the accelerated mouth was brought back to the same region as the stationary mouth with the accelerated mouth's clock reading 2005 while the stationary mouth's clock read 2010, then a traveler who entered the accelerated mouth at this moment would exit the stationary mouth when its clock also read 2005, in the same region but now five years in the past. Such a configuration of wormholes would allow for a particle's world line to form a closed loop in spacetime, known as a closed timelike curve.

It is thought that it may not be possible to convert a wormhole into a time machine in this manner: some analyses using the semiclassical approach to incorporating quantum effects into general relativity indicate that a feedback loop of virtual particles would circulate through the wormhole with ever-increasing intensity, destroying it before any information could be passed through it, in keeping with the chronology protection conjecture. This has been called into question by the suggestion that radiation would disperse after traveling through the wormhole, therefore preventing infinite accumulation. The debate on this matter is described by Kip S. Thorne in the book Black Holes and Time Warps. There is also the Roman ring, which is a configuration of more than one wormhole. This ring seems to allow a closed time loop with stable wormholes when analyzed using semiclassical gravity, although without a full theory of quantum gravity it is uncertain whether the semiclassical approach is reliable in this case."

heavensprincess
02-20-2008, 07:07 PM
ok so if i'm reading this right which i'm probably not..then the clock that daniel had was the one with the correct time which means that the outside world is 31 minutes ahead and not behind...

lilsev42
02-21-2008, 03:18 AM
I really like this theory,I am going to post it to my insiders and see what they say.It makes alot of sense,good job!!!!!!!!

ortrules
02-21-2008, 02:58 PM
"If you send something into the past it has to arrive instananeously.

if you send something into the future, it takes a bit.. hence the payload clock being 31 minutes fast/ahead

The payload took an extra 31 minutes to arrive on the island.. so according to its clock it is 3:16. Island time is in the future."

I'm pretty sure there's no way this can be right. You're on the island, say it's 3:00 and you're 30 minutes into the future. So I shoot a rocket from the past where its 2:30 and it takes two minutes to get there, so the rocket lands at 2:32. Your time is now 3:02, so you'd see the rocket instantaneously because according to your time, you received the rocket 30 minutes ago.

But if you're on the island at 3:00, and I shoot a rocket from the future at 3:30 and it takes two minutes to get there, you won't see the rocket for 30 minutes. And that's exactly what happened - meaning the island would be in the past, and not the future.

"I would be interested to see what happened if a LOCAL left the island - like the LOST HORIZON movie, I feel they would wither and die."

A local has left the island. Richard was the one that went to bring Juliette to the island.

csharp1990
02-21-2008, 03:36 PM
"I would be interested to see what happened if a LOCAL left the island - like the LOST HORIZON movie, I feel they would wither and die."

A local has left the island. Richard was the one that went to bring Juliette to the island.

yeah i know, so i guess nothing happens when he goes off the island, I might rewatch the episode to see if anything out of the ordinary comes up.

Dharma Initiate 815
02-21-2008, 04:13 PM
Why has Richard never aged?? I mean when they show him with Ben as a kid he looks the same as he does now. As was said above he has left the island.

csharp1990
02-21-2008, 07:10 PM
I think Richard Alpert does age it is just at a very slow rate. In a previous episode he told Julliete, you'll be suprised how fast time flies on the island. Which is strange because he is hardly aging

Dharma Initiate 815
02-21-2008, 07:12 PM
Or maybe we are just not supposed to notice these things and I look into things too much... they wouldn't do that to me would they???

THEONETHINGTHATWILLUS
02-22-2008, 12:36 AM
First off in no way am I taking credit for this theory it was originally posted http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45804
I am just posting it here so that you guys can have a look because this is very well developed, but there is a lot of ambiguities that can be cleared up. This was kinda similar to my theory just this is a lot more in depth, and this can be kinda confusing at times...:D



"I have been reading the huge threads on THE 31 MINUTES on many forums, and thought I'd take a step back from the complex mathematics and science put forward. I'm going to try and expand my ideas into a theory.

Firstly I think it's established that the clocks are NOT timers..the numbers are the time of day...

The difference is the island is 31 minutes into the future. We must remember that TIME is a frame of reference. It is dependent on where the observer is. For this reason, I shall talk of dimensions, and not time.

If you send something into the past it has to arrive instananeously.

if you send something into the future, it takes a bit.. hence the payload clock being 31 minutes fast/ahead

The payload took an extra 31 minutes to arrive on the island.. so according to its clock it is 3:16. Island time is in the future.

But its not as simple as time travel... time travel alone would delay incoming comms.. yet make outgoing comms instananeous.
I DO believe a wormhole is responsible for this....a portal between dimensions.

The freighter is probably parked just by the mouth of the wormhole(exact heading/bearing) so signals/anything digital(which doesn't include sound waves) arent affected by the wormhole passage.. Only things that are affected, are soundwaves, water, air and things with mass.. Light is affected, but not too much.. hence the scattering.

The sub also can travel via the wormhole..it exists in the air and water... but it must be small...like a narrow column.

Regina acknowledges the payload reaches the beacon...yet Daniel says it isnt there...the signals are in real time... She is tracking the flight on a computer screen to a blinking dot or something probably... and it flies through the wormhole. She sees in on the screen, or whatever she is using to track the payload, that it hits the mark...in her dimension... her present.

In the meantime....Frank and Jack discuss the Boston Red Sox. Then Daniels says here it comes...it lands .. Daniel refers to it as a rocket.. but it is guided electronically.. so it doesnt fit the normal description of a rocket.. but thats neither here nor there, as it probably has rocket propulsion.

He takes out the square clock and compares it to his watch.. then says "Oh no",
then he goes over the the machine and checks both clocks.

The machines clock says 2:45:02, which ticks to 2:45:03 and the rockets says 3:16 :22, which ticks to 3:16:23 and the Daniel mutters 31 minutes..

It seems like 31 seconds.. but 31 minutes has gone by... and he specifies this, and you can see the seconds digits moving moving.

The flight of the payload took an extra 31 minutes, therefore the Island dimension is ahead of world time.

While it travels 31 minutes in the wormhole.. then lands at the real beacon...the clock is 31 minutes fast... so to Daniel, Jack, and Frank.. 31 minutes later they receive it.. the future compared to Reginas present. Subsequently, the freighter is in Jack & Franks past, according to THEIR frame of reference.

BUT...as there are no DATES on the clocks....the island could be any number of days into the future....or indeed the PAST - however, we'll assume it is just 31 minutes, which may or may not be frozen due to the turning of the key. For all we know, the island dimension may be spinning into the future - THIS WAS THE INCIDENT.



This brings me to my theory. I believe now, that the 108 minutes timer, was pressed to keep the island in sync with the outside world. I beileve the extreme electromagnetic properties of the island produce the wormhole to other dimensions, and the timing differences. It is clear that comms are important. The FLAME station was a huge world monitoring station, and was designed to monitor world events in either real time or future time dependent on which type of wasves were monitored. This explains why the freighter people only use SAT phones. It's my belief that Ben/Alpert are the bad boys and Mittelos Bioscience USED the islands properties to SEE into the future. The SAW up to 108 minutes ahead, and on the reset, USED this influence to make huge killings on the stock market, and gambling on events in the outside world. Hence the money and fake passports - Ben had ultimate power, and together with the Widmore Corp, influenced many, many world events. With a "tool" that looks 108 mins into the future, think of what YOU could do - THIS is what makes the island so special, and worth fighting for. Now, people who lived long on the island, have benefited from the constant resetting of time - it behaved like a fountain of youth - making Alpert and other locals hardly age at all. However, the constant reset of time, manifested in the pregnant womens wombs. The women didn't age, but the wombs did, thus the universe course corrected and killed the mother and baby on pregnancy. I would be interested to see what happened if a LOCAL left the island - like the LOST HORIZON movie, I feel they would wither and die.

NOW...this is where the spirituality evident in the show comes into play, cos I believe FATE is the universe's way of course correcting the changes of destiny that Ben & Co have achieved. Remember what the old lady said to Desmond - the universe has a way of course correcting.

The universe was at work when it fated the people of 815 to influence the change on the island. Hurley got the lottery numbers, cos it was he knew the numbers would come up. The INCIDENT that occured was what happened in the islands future - before time was controlled. The INCIDENT was Des turning the failsafe key, so time is now on a big LOOP on the island. Initially, I suggest all this started when, DHARMA experimented with time travel, and the properties of the island, and jumping the island WELL ahead into the future. AT this point, they realised something must be done, or the universe would collapse on itself, so they sent many DHARMA people out through the wormhole at this time - into a new dimension, and into 2004 - with instructions to solve the problem, and get fate back on track. This explains how Hurley's numbers won him the lottery, how Charlie probably programmed the Looking Glass Station code, and how Sayid knew how to repair computer in the Swan, how Locke could beat the chess PC in the Flame. They knew, cos they were the scientists that devised it. However, in their NEW dimension in 2004, their lives had followed a different path, and they had lived different lives. The universe was at work however, and FATE decreed that these people were pulled back to the island on flight 815. The people with more FAITH...such as Locke etc.. had deja vu moments, and REMEMBERED his life on the island - his destiny. He KNEW he'd been here before. The men of science...Jack et all, had LITTLE recollection, so had to be guided at times (his Dad etc..). Once again, some people want to EXIT the island - the non believers, and six DO leave the island. They go into yet ANOTHER dimension and become the characters they once were - only worse. Once again, FATE (which can be described here as the universe course correcting) pulls them BACK to the island to help their friends who are now HUGELY aware of their orignial DHARMA work. BEN is almost an anti christ - USING the island for his own means, and is the BAD one in all this. Alpert and the others realise they have been DUPED by Ben, and a huge battle ensues for the island. The Losities now resume their roles as DHARMA scientists, and find their OLD bodies in the original timeline in the open grave that Locke was shown. Jack and Kate realise the two bodies in the cave are them.

The show will end with our Losties working for DHARMA, trying to control the wormhole and shift in time for the good of mankind - JUST SAVING THE WORLD.....then....enter AARON - the baby born OFF the island who came back from the future, who will gas them all in a purge......and then we'll cut to a bamboo grove to see....JACK UNCONCIOUS....

Full of HOLES at the minute, but feel free to throw questions at me and maybe we can tweak the theory....

This situation of course brings GOD and fate into play...light and dark...GOD, or JACOB, or fate...whatever you call it HAS to put destiny back to it's pre ordained way. ALL the coincidences that brought the passengers of 815 was fate, or God, or the universe course correcting and bringing things BACK into line. The question is, HOW...and THAT will be the question we're left with at the end of LOST. How can we stop this continual time loop THE INCIDENT brought about....."
Very good. Very weird but good. This could be right, how does the valenzetti equation fit in with this? cos this all has to do with the end of the world doesnt it? maybe thay thot thay could look in ta the future more and find out when the end of the world would happen? the island must be a bit in the future tho, it just sounds right. i cant think of anything ous ta say lol

boxster
02-25-2008, 05:47 PM
I too have been postulating that the connection between the real world and the island is a wormhole. Traveling thru a wormhole would be instantaneous for the person going through it. However, time would be different on the exiting/entrance sides to the wormhole. If you get trapped in the wormhole (somehow) time would never pass for you, but time would continue to progress outside the hole.

Now, maybe the infamous numbers were in fact entered to release some magnetic field that builds up over time as others have said. Maybe this action kept the island side of the wormhole stable. This means it would never move. So if you go in from where the freighter is located you would always end up on the island in X amount of time. An vice-versa. This would be a stable wormhole. If the wormhole became unstable, you could have the island moving around in time/space (if connected to the hole). So if Dan thought the projectile should take about 19 seconds to go 40 kilometers from the freighter to the island, but the wormhole is moving, then the time of flight could be different. Maybe that is why he freaked when he saw the time of flight on the projectile was different than his watch/timer on the island.

Now the helicopter is trying to trace the path (bearing) back to the freighter, but the wormhole (island side) has moved in time/space. So where is the island side wormhole? Maybe that is why they have been missing for a day. This travel time is longer than expected. Once you are in the hole time essentially stops for you, but continues for the island and the freighter.

Also, the jamming has stopped from the Looking Glass station, so why would your sophisticated sat phone need to be constantly re-coordinated/tuned unless something were moving or changing. Remember, Naiomi was asked to recalibrate when she was losing signal.

Remember when Juliet was at the private Miami airport? She had to drink the tranquiller because they said "You don't want to be awake for this". I would image travelling thru a wormhole (if possible without being crushed or turned into energy) would be quite strange! By the way, the submarine at the island looked like an old diesel and would take a long time and a lot of fuel to travel from Miami to somewhere near Malaysia. Wasn't Juliet wearing the same clothes when she woke up? Like she had been placed there to wake up.