Upside Down #1... Anyone?!? [Archive]

ortrules

04-16-2009, 06:58 PM

Here's the link...
http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/06cce7e66f92a4aedffa8a1857e234a1

Thanks.

I'd just say it's part of his "punk" look and he purposely put it upside down. It is definitely not a mirror image, it's just upside down. If you turn it right side up the 1 is facing the right way.

BucFanLostinNC

04-16-2009, 07:00 PM

I thought the first image was interesting. You see the door number that his mom lives in is 7 but when they got there it was closer to 108 and the guy died in 4.

Pung

04-16-2009, 07:02 PM

Whatever. :rolleyes:

I guess I should use the word "reflection."
Like the one in this picture...
http://rocksinmydryer.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/03/06/lost.jpg

Now dont get sassy!

Actually now that I have a second look at it, it is updise down and reversed! So maybe there is hope for your 'mirrored' theorists.

BTW, Wings in 5. Mason is going to stand on his head enough for columbus to get 1, but it will be a short series

InTheBeginning

04-16-2009, 07:02 PM

It's kind of upside down and mirrored or you can say the digit has been rotated 180 degrees. Like if Miles was standing on his head, it would be correct.

<edit> Maybe Miles is dyslexic?

Jeremy

04-16-2009, 07:02 PM

He is obviously wearing his shirt upside-down. Miles isn't too bright. That's why he has to making a living off of pretending to talk to dead people.

Pung

04-16-2009, 07:03 PM

Thanks.

I'd just say it's part of his "punk" look and he purposely put it upside down. It is definitely not a mirror image, it's just upside down. If you turn it right side up the 1 is facing the right way.

It is reversed though. Its almost like the minute hand of a clock that has moved 30 minutes.

ortrules

04-16-2009, 07:32 PM

It is reversed though. Its almost like the minute hand of a clock that has moved 30 minutes.

It's not reversed.

This is a reverse: d - b

This is what happened with the 1: d - p

It just rotated 180 degrees, it's not backwards or reversed. If you rotate another 180 degrees, it looks just like a normal 1, not a backwards 1.

Pung

04-16-2009, 07:38 PM

It's not reversed.

This is a reverse: d - b

This is what happened with the 1: d - p

It just rotated 180 degrees, it's not backwards or reversed. If you rotate another 180 degrees, it looks just like a normal 1, not a backwards 1.

It is reversed: d - b, and then it is upside down: b - p. Like i said before, its also like the minute hand of a clock going 30 minutes, or in your words rotating 180 degrees.

ortrules

04-16-2009, 07:49 PM

It is reversed: d - b, and then it is upside down: b - p. Like i said before, its also like the minute hand of a clock going 30 minutes, or in your words rotating 180 degrees.

It's not a reverse though, what you've done is reversed it twice, which means it's not reversed at all. Here's a little diagram showing a normal 1 and a reversed 1 and their rotated stages.

http://home.comcast.net/~ortrules/reverse.jpg

Pung

04-16-2009, 08:14 PM

It's not a reverse though, what you've done is reversed it twice, which means it's not reversed at all. Here's a little diagram showing a normal 1 and a reversed 1 and their rotated stages.

http://home.comcast.net/~ortrules/reverse.jpg

If you took the 'd' and reversed or mirrored it, then you would have a 'b'. If you then took that 'b' and flipped it upside down, then you would have a 'p'. This would be the same as rotating the 'd' 180 degress to get the 'p'.

To me, something that is upside down is not reversed, so that is why I explained the '1' as being reversed only once and then flipped.

wiley

04-16-2009, 08:25 PM

If you took the 'd' and reversed or mirrored it, then you would have a 'b'. If you then took that 'b' and flipped it upside down, then you would have a 'p'. This would be the same as rotating the 'd' 180 degress to get the 'p'.

To me, something that is upside down is not reversed, so that is why I explained the '1' as being reversed only once and then flipped.

What? a 'b' that is rotated would be a backward 'p'.

Pung

04-16-2009, 08:37 PM

What? a 'b' that is rotated would be a backward 'p'.

You dont rotate the 'b', you flip it upside down. This gives you the 'p'. The process of flipping and reversing a 'd' gives you the 'p'.

the same imagine can be created by keeping the 'd' on a singular 2 dimensional plane and rotate 180 degrees to get the 'p'.

I agree with Ort that it is a simple as saying that it is rotated 180 degrees. But in a 3 demensional world rotating the image left or right 180 degrees and then rotating up or down 180 degrees, would achieve the same image.

I feel that the left or right rotation could be called a reversal. and the up or down rotation would be a flipping.

ortrules

04-16-2009, 09:08 PM

You dont rotate the 'b', you flip it upside down. This gives you the 'p'. The process of flipping and reversing a 'd' gives you the 'p'.

the same imagine can be created by keeping the 'd' on a singular 2 dimensional plane and rotate 180 degrees to get the 'p'.

I agree with Ort that it is a simple as saying that it is rotated 180 degrees. But in a 3 demensional world rotating the image left or right 180 degrees and then rotating up or down 180 degrees, would achieve the same image.

I feel that the left or right rotation could be called a reversal. and the up or down rotation would be a flipping.

You're really looking at it all wrong Pung. Here's a quick test. Get a piece of paper and write a giant 1 on it. Pick up the paper, reverse it, then flip it. After this, you're still looking at the same 1 that you wrote earlier, you're just now looking at it from a different angle - it hasn't reversed itself.

Conversely, let's do a little geography here. If you look north at the United States from Mexico, California is on your left and Florida is on your right. If you look south at the United States from Canada, California is on your right and Florida is on your left. The US didn't rotate, you're just looking at it from two different positions.

Edit: I suppose we're just playing semantics here - but I hope we can agree this isn't a sign of a mirror universe. It's just a 1 put on upside down.

headscratch

04-16-2009, 09:24 PM

...tunred on it's head.

Perhaps Miles grown up and as a child are inverses, not mirrors which creates a conundrum.

Maybe when you time travel, you are the inverse so that you can cancel each other out?

Or perhaps it could be part of an algorithm. Maybe a genetic algorithm reference. Genetic algorithms are used in solving inverse problems: A genetic algorithm (GA) is a search technique used in computing to find exact or approximate solutions to optimization and search problems. Genetic algorithms are categorized as global search heuristics. Genetic algorithms are a particular class of evolutionary algorithms (also known as evolutionary computation) that use techniques inspired by evolutionary biology such as inheritance, mutation, selection, and crossover (also called recombination).

Clearly the case of Miles being there both as a child and adult raises evolutionary issues. Hmmm...wonder if they are doing gentic testing issues with the polar bears on the hydra.

yokogleeton

04-16-2009, 09:58 PM

Anybody see Real Genius?

after reading the "d and b" and "d and p" arguements I feel like that kid who loses it in the middle of the study session...

<walks out screaming> :)

MagicoA

04-16-2009, 10:11 PM

I thought the first image was interesting. You see the door number that his mom lives in is 7 but when they got there it was closer to 108 and the guy died in 4.
o thats an intresting thought that may have either meaning to the # or put in by writers to see if we catch that (we always do)

He is obviously wearing his shirt upside-down. Miles isn't too bright. That's why he has to making a living off of pretending to talk to dead people.
well the shirt is obviously "punk" style i guess and the second part i cant tell if ur being sarcastic or just plain obnoxious no offense i think he might have lied to the father but not of his powers to talk to his son but what his son actually said

beachblinkette

04-16-2009, 10:21 PM

Anybody see Real Genius?

after reading the "d and b" and "d and p" arguements I feel like that kid who loses it in the middle of the study session...

<walks out screaming> :)

What??? You mean everybody on this forum DOESN'T do that? What the.....???LOL

headscratch

04-16-2009, 11:09 PM

While upside down does mean inverted, this may simply mean that Miles is upset.

'Upside down' was originally 'up so down', i.e. 'up as if down'. The 'so' part migrated into various forms, 'upsa', 'upse' (which spawned 'upset') etc., in the same way as in phrases like 'ups-a-daisy' and 'upset the applecart'. The change from 'up so down' to forms like 'upset-down' and eventually 'upside-down' appear to be for no better reason than to make the expression's meaning more intuitive.

chester

04-16-2009, 11:26 PM

Edit: I suppose we're just playing semantics here - but I hope we can agree this isn't a sign of a mirror universe. It's just a 1 put on upside down.

Why would it not be a sign of a mirror world? Isn't the "1" on Miles' back just a 1 "mirrored" or reflected across both the horizontal and vertical axes?

This is different to what we experience when we look in a mirror, agreed, but it does not argue against a mirror-world interpretation.

LostFreak21

04-16-2009, 11:30 PM

My thought on the hoodie was he was part of a West Coast gang.

Pung

04-17-2009, 01:54 AM

You're really looking at it all wrong Pung. Here's a quick test. Get a piece of paper and write a giant 1 on it. Pick up the paper, reverse it, then flip it. After this, you're still looking at the same 1 that you wrote earlier, you're just now looking at it from a different angle - it hasn't reversed itself.

Conversely, let's do a little geography here. If you look north at the United States from Mexico, California is on your left and Florida is on your right. If you look south at the United States from Canada, California is on your right and Florida is on your left. The US didn't rotate, you're just looking at it from two different positions.

Edit: I suppose we're just playing semantics here - but I hope we can agree this isn't a sign of a mirror universe. It's just a 1 put on upside down.

I completely agree that Miles' shirt is not an easter egg for a mirrored universe. I find the Mirrored universe theory very interesting but as a hard core WHHer, i am all about one definite universe. I was just saying that there are two ways to move the image of the '1' to get the end result on Miles' shirt. It is absolutely a matter of semantics.

mnm4334

04-17-2009, 02:11 AM

I think when you have to rotate, flip, turn, squint, and well pretty much everything except just look at a one turned 180 degrees its not mirrored. Put a one on your shirt and go look in a mirror. Its also not reflected like any other image we have seen, because that would require miles to also be upside down lol. We can't just take his shirt and analyse it, we have to take context, the upside down 1 means nothing more than the number of piercings he had on his face, or the amount of hair gel he used. Means no more than the gap in his teeth as a baby. It means nothing more than the dead man he founds name or the name of his wife. The upside down one is a punk anti-conformity symbol nothing more, nothing less.

ortrules

04-17-2009, 02:35 AM

Why would it not be a sign of a mirror world? Isn't the "1" on Miles' back just a 1 "mirrored" or reflected across both the horizontal and vertical axes?

No. If you reflect something twice you cancel out the reflection.

1st reflection: Left becomes Right
2nd reflection: Right becomes Left

In the case of the 1, it's not being reflected, it's rotated 180 degrees. Basically, we're just looking at it from another angle, but it hasn't changed.

chester

04-17-2009, 04:17 AM

No. If you reflect something twice you cancel out the reflection.

1st reflection: Left becomes Right
2nd reflection: Right becomes Left

In the case of the 1, it's not being reflected, it's rotated 180 degrees. Basically, we're just looking at it from another angle, but it hasn't changed.

1st Reflection: Left becomes Right and Up becomes Down

Basically, were just looking at a 1 that has been reflected in two spacial dimentions

ortrules

04-17-2009, 04:26 AM

1st Reflection: Left becomes Right and Up becomes Down

Basically, were just looking at a 1 that has been reflected in two spacial dimentions

You would need a multi-mirror world to accomplish that kind of a reflection though, unless we get into the whole idea of a "convex mirror world" or "circus/fun house mirror world", which doesn't really add anything to the idea of a mirror world.

Typically, a mirror world would be something like you are the hero in this world, but you are the villain in the other world. Or you are right handed in this world and left handed in the other world. Your suggestion of left becoming right AND up becoming down would suggest another layer to that, which I think goes beyond the mirror universe and into the multiple dimension discussion.

In a mirror world, a reflection making left become right and up become down would mean that a right handed person in the real world would have an upside down left hand or something like that. And I think that's definitely a bit much.

5starboss

04-17-2009, 01:32 PM

could it be a " B-boy" jacket? break dancing was more east coast in the 80s, but has its pockets of serious dancers all over. all this upside down mumbo-jumbo made me think of a breakdancer spinning on his head, thus the jacket representing he's #1 to all his competitors watching since it would appear in the correct stance whilest he's spinning on his head..

chester

04-17-2009, 10:53 PM

Here's an interesting wiki about mirrored images, in particular the flip (reflected across the horizontal axis):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipped_image

Of course the 1 on Miles' hoody is flopped as well (reflected across the vertical axis). Maybe the flip is to draw attention to the flop.

DontTellMeWhatICantDo

04-17-2009, 11:00 PM

Isn't a backwards "p" a "q" ?

chester

04-17-2009, 11:06 PM

Isn't a backwards "p" a "q" ?

I'll go along with that. Or, put another way; a "p" is a flopped "q", and vice versa.

Smoke Monsters INC.

04-18-2009, 06:33 AM

I don't feel like searching for all the other threads about the island being a mirrored world. But, I remember the discussions from this season when Ben, Jack, Sun, Kate, Sayid were on the waterfront in LA and how there conversations all seemed different and different wordings were said, if that makes sense at what I am trying to talk about? Anyway, I was watching the bonus features from season 2 disc 1, TPTB said when they do the flashbacks they like to show them from different peoples perspectives.

To me with all the debates on whether it's a mirrored world or when the dialoge has changed, but still very similar, that it is just shown from a different persons perspective and not a mirrored world. Now the mirror world theory I really like and it makes a lot of sense in some cases, but going by what TPTB said from the bonus features of S2 disc 1, I tend to believe it's just shown from different people's perspectives and we all know that each individual sees and hears things differently.

ortrules

04-19-2009, 08:15 PM

Anyway, I was watching the bonus features from season 2 disc 1, TPTB said when they do the flashbacks they like to show them from different peoples perspectives.

Wow, I have to look for this! This is how I described the "differences" in each scene.

frog_girl

04-19-2009, 09:17 PM

Whatever. :rolleyes:

I guess I should use the word "reflection."
Like the one in this picture...
http://rocksinmydryer.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/03/06/lost.jpg

I apologise for being probably the last person on this forum to notice this but:

*points at picture*

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh the water is reflecting a city, not trees! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!

Thankyou for your time ;-)
:eek: