Faraday can't be dead....yet

[MagicoA]

so yesterday it hit me,dan cant be dead yet becuase him and lafluer(sawyer) are in that booth video while he may have told Dr.chang he's from the future i think he lives and him sawyer and chang make that video tape,and if not then thats just one other slip up for damalton this season(the other being charrlote's age)

[Waitin4Godot]

I've seen this addressed a couple places.. the video you are talking about isn't really canon for the show -- it's mentioned in an interview about the show.

The age thing is just an honest mistake.

[MagicoA]

I've seen this addressed a couple places.. the video you are talking about isn't really canon for the show -- it's mentioned in an interview about the show.

The age thing is just an honest mistake.
so it was just a random thing that they fabricated and is not part of the storyline thats a confusing move by damalton and i cant blame them for the age thing

[mcgarnigle]

the age thing only exists if you believe the character of Ben, when he says that charlotte was born in 1979. Do you really think ben would have told locke and crew that charlotte was actually born on the island and that she left and blah blah blah. Come on, never base anything on what ben says. he's almost always lying.

[johnlockenessmonster]

Is it possible that daniel is the dead guy that naomi told miles they needed him to talk to on the island. I think I rememeber her saying that they needed to talk to him cause he knew a great deal about the island

[mkculpe]

so yesterday it hit me,dan cant be dead yet becuase him and lafluer(sawyer) are in that booth video while he may have told Dr.chang he's from the future i think he lives and him sawyer and chang make that video tape,and if not then thats just one other slip up for damalton this season(the other being charrlote's age)
I agree that he is not dead. Little Ben was shot and it took a while to get to Richard. He then lived. So if Daniel gets shot with Richard standing in front of him, he has way more time to make sure he lives. :)

[MagicoA]

I agree that he is not dead. Little Ben was shot and it took a while to get to Richard. He then lived. So if Daniel gets shot with Richard standing in front of him, he has way more time to make sure he lives. :)
yeah yet b4 i was looking at a summery of this ep and it said "before Daniel died he told eloise he was her son" so maybe that confirms it yet im not sure if thats what they did with jin when he "died" so maybe that booth video ment nothing to the plotline *sigh*

[imwiththeothers]

I'm not sure he's dead either. We've seen a lot of people "die" this season that don't really die.

What I'm interested in finding out is what changed Faraday's mind about What Happened Happened. When they first went to the past he was adamant that it can't be changed. I wonder what happened in Ann Arbor that changes his mind. I think he was visited by someone from the future that was on the island in 1977. That person gives him information on what is going to happen that day (that's how he knows when Chang is at the Orchid and that there are "6 hours" until someone drills at the Swan). That person convinces him that he can change what is about to happen and causes him to go back to the island. What do you guys think?

[Slythe]

I think some of you are missing the point. Daniel is dead, and I think this episode actually confirms the WHH theory. Daniel is so determined to change the past, that he gets himself killed, but that is ALWAYS what happened. I think the purpose of his death is to show that these people CAN NOT change anything. I think he realizes this at the in his final moments, when he realizes his mother knew he would die, and he realizes he was wrong.

Of course this is just my theory, but I think all the proof is there. I think at this point that it is very safe to say that you can not change anything.

[wecanbesaved]

yeah yet b4 i was looking at a summery of this ep and it said "before Daniel died he told eloise he was her son" so maybe that confirms it yet im not sure if thats what they did with jin when he "died" so maybe that booth video ment nothing to the plotline *sigh*

I agree with you before about him not being dead.
The video may not be exacly canon for the show as someone mentioned, but it has to have some meaning. They gave a huge clue to who Chang's baby is in that video. I don't think the writers would just release something for the heck of it, especially knowing how seriously we all take every little bit they throw at us. That would just be cruel if this video is completely irrelevent to the show.

I think some of you are missing the point. Daniel is dead, and I think this episode actually confirms the WHH theory. Daniel is so determined to change the past, that he gets himself killed, but that is ALWAYS what happened. I think the purpose of his death is to show that these people CAN NOT change anything. I think he realizes this at the in his final moments, when he realizes his mother knew he would die, and he realizes he was wrong.

Of course this is just my theory, but I think all the proof is there. I think at this point that it is very safe to say that you can not change anything.

Is he wrong, though? 2007 Eloise does not know what is going to happen next, and we haven't figured out exactly why yet. She seemed like she knew exactly what was going to happen up till this past episode, and I think it's because Dan in 1977 does not die but lives to tell her what they have to do to fix things. So 2007 Eloise wakes up or has this random surprise memory of talking to her son in 1977 and it's a different talk than they had previously had in 1977 (if that makes any sense).

Maybe he can't change anything, but maybe whatever happened last time, if he was supposed to die, maybe that will change.

[New Age Messiah]

Is it possible that daniel is the dead guy that naomi told miles they needed him to talk to on the island. I think I rememeber her saying that they needed to talk to him cause he knew a great deal about the islandMaybe, but Miles said he can only hear what the person was thinking when they died. But really, what WAS he thinking?

[MisterDee]

Ok now I noticed a lot of people are confused about why Daniel changed his mindset and why Eloise doesn't know what will happen. Well I feel I can clarify this.

Now Daniel accepted them making it to 1977. He feels there was really no way around it and it had to occur, so WHH right. But while he's off doing research the photo copy he had of the Namaste picture of the new recruits triggers it into his head. He is doing math...it involves variables they manipulate equations....so it hits him. He did make a difference. John Locke made a difference. They are variables. He interfered by talking to Desmond.... In his mind if he coupled with John Locke, hadn't interferred in some way, there would have been no way for the oceanic 6 losties to get to 1977.

This strikes up the idea that infact he can take it upon himself to try and change everything that happened. Now how he knew exactly at what point everything happened is quite interesting. My guess is he spent time at Dharma and that via his work and things jotted down in his journal from when he was at the present time lead him to be able to know when certain events occurred. I also think an experience with someone may help him along, perhaps Jacob may have played a part but i mean I hate mentioning him because his name pops up in so many places. So I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Jacob experience is non existant in this instance as per usual.

So Daniel takes the next sub thinking in his mind that all the losties who actually came via the plane really arent meant to be there. So he makes up his wild idea of the H bomb which fails.

As far as Eloise is concerned.....I feel that everything she experienced in the past with people from the future has concluded. All the encounters of people etc that she knew would occur to make the past happen has finished. She is now completely living in the present, not on a mission....to send people back to the Island into the past, to send Daniel there to get to the past in order to shoot him. She knew she was shooting him. So she knew throughout her life she had to convince Dan to take on science. She knew eventually she would be sending Losties back to 1977, that Locke died etc.... Now she has nothing from the past that will lead her to what will eventually occur.

This leads me to believe the Losties will be heading into the future at some point to meet up with locke et al. How?? your guess is as good as mine. I thought perhaps Faraday had that solution but with the smart science guy out of the picture....my next guess is the Temple, perhaps the consequence for exploiting the islands time travelling capabilities smokey will be awaken no longer dorment. Think about it....we have yet to see him in the past so perhaps The Incident triggers his awakening from the slumber or what not I dont know the exact details but it doesnt sound too far fetched.

[MagicoA]

Ok now I noticed a lot of people are confused about why Daniel changed his mindset and why Eloise doesn't know what will happen. Well I feel I can clarify this.

Now Daniel accepted them making it to 1977. He feels there was really no way around it and it had to occur, so WHH right. But while he's off doing research the photo copy he had of the Namaste picture of the new recruits triggers it into his head. He is doing math...it involves variables they manipulate equations....so it hits him. He did make a difference. John Locke made a difference. They are variables. He interfered by talking to Desmond.... In his mind if he coupled with John Locke, hadn't interferred in some way, there would have been no way for the oceanic 6 losties to get to 1977.

This strikes up the idea that infact he can take it upon himself to try and change everything that happened. Now how he knew exactly at what point everything happened is quite interesting. My guess is he spent time at Dharma and that via his work and things jotted down in his journal from when he was at the present time lead him to be able to know when certain events occurred. I also think an experience with someone may help him along, perhaps Jacob may have played a part but i mean I hate mentioning him because his name pops up in so many places. So I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Jacob experience is non existant in this instance as per usual.

So Daniel takes the next sub thinking in his mind that all the losties who actually came via the plane really arent meant to be there. So he makes up his wild idea of the H bomb which fails.

As far as Eloise is concerned.....I feel that everything she experienced in the past with people from the future has concluded. All the encounters of people etc that she knew would occur to make the past happen has finished. She is now completely living in the present, not on a mission....to send people back to the Island into the past, to send Daniel there to get to the past in order to shoot him. She knew she was shooting him. So she knew throughout her life she had to convince Dan to take on science. She knew eventually she would be sending Losties back to 1977, that Locke died etc.... Now she has nothing from the past that will lead her to what will eventually occur.

This leads me to believe the Losties will be heading into the future at some point to meet up with locke et al. How?? your guess is as good as mine. I thought perhaps Faraday had that solution but with the smart science guy out of the picture....my next guess is the Temple, perhaps the consequence for exploiting the islands time travelling capabilities smokey will be awaken no longer dorment. Think about it....we have yet to see him in the past so perhaps The Incident triggers his awakening from the slumber or what not I dont know the exact details but it doesnt sound too far fetched.
i see ur point about smokie im suprised with people being on his island such as dharma he would have killed them by now hmm valid points u got there

[navyguy]

I think some of you are missing the point. Daniel is dead, and I think this episode actually confirms the WHH theory. Daniel is so determined to change the past, that he gets himself killed, but that is ALWAYS what happened. I think the purpose of his death is to show that these people CAN NOT change anything. I think he realizes this at the in his final moments, when he realizes his mother knew he would die, and he realizes he was wrong.

Of course this is just my theory, but I think all the proof is there. I think at this point that it is very safe to say that you can not change anything.

YES! YES! YES! NOTICE WHAT HE SAYS! IM PARAPHRASING BUT HE TELLS HIS MOTHER "YOU KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN" OR SOMETHING LYK THAT

[MagicoA]

YES! YES! YES! NOTICE WHAT HE SAYS! IM PARAPHRASING BUT HE TELLS HIS MOTHER "YOU KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN" OR SOMETHING LYK THAT
yeah so this video had no correlation to the storyline and then that what u and he said about sums it up without the video it makes perfect sense with it,it just seems confusing i hope damalton touch on that in the next podcast

[wecanbesaved]

I think some of you are missing the point. Daniel is dead, and I think this episode actually confirms the WHH theory. Daniel is so determined to change the past, that he gets himself killed, but that is ALWAYS what happened. I think the purpose of his death is to show that these people CAN NOT change anything. I think he realizes this at the in his final moments, when he realizes his mother knew he would die, and he realizes he was wrong.

Of course this is just my theory, but I think all the proof is there. I think at this point that it is very safe to say that you can not change anything.

YES! YES! YES! NOTICE WHAT HE SAYS! IM PARAPHRASING BUT HE TELLS HIS MOTHER "YOU KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN" OR SOMETHING LYK THAT

When he said that to her, he meant what she does in her future that propelled his whole past. It didn't occur to him until then that his mother pushed him to concentrate on science for the simple reason that she knew he had to go to the Island.

The problem is with this statement about what he said is that you forget her response to him..."Who are you?" Which is then followed by her shocked expression when he tells her that he is in fact her son.

Maybe he did always get shot. Maybe he is dead and the video does not have anything to do with the show, it was just simply released to spite us all. But I'm holding to it because it proved to me relevent when it ended up giving the best clue to Miles being Chang's son.

Maybe Dan can't change things, but there are two other people, at least, that know his plan, and those two people also have his journal and if Jack and Kate can work together, they can save not only Dan in the future, but all of their friends too. And if Locke is meant to be on the Island, and Richard knows it, I think he'll find a way to get him there without involving all the others.

[Merge!]

yeah yet b4 i was looking at a summery of this ep and it said "before Daniel died he told eloise he was her son" so maybe that confirms it yet im not sure if thats what they did with jin when he "died" so maybe that booth video ment nothing to the plotline *sigh*

Well, Locke died, and Christian Shephard died. They all are alive now (at least Christian seems to be alive). The only difference with Locke and Christian is that they both died OFF the island. Ben wasn't dead, he was just dying. Come to think of it, Ben has been dying twice now.

[Herbal Kint]

I don't think Dan can be dead, if he died, then he died in 1977 so how could he have been alive to be recruited to go to the island and do everything we have seen him do since before they flashed back to 1977. If he did in fact die and that what always happened how does it explain what had with him living his life and doing all his research past 1977. Now I guess he could of died and then this would set off some sort of butterfly effect where everything is now completely different but it seems they still plan on using Dan's research/ book and ideas to try and change what had happened but again if he died in 1977 how could any of this be possible ?

[rachelskid]

I agree with you before about him not being dead.
The video may not be exacly canon for the show as someone mentioned, but it has to have some meaning. They gave a huge clue to who Chang's baby is in that video. I don't think the writers would just release something for the heck of it, especially knowing how seriously we all take every little bit they throw at us. That would just be cruel if this video is completely irrelevent to the show.



the video came out of last summers lost ARG online. that ARG lost funding before it was complete. there is an interview (on dark;s page somewhere) with darlton and they say that the video is not cannon because it was not completed and that what they were trying to do was hint at the fact that the losties will be in 1970's dharma in season 5. that was their only goal. they also said that "some viewers believe that its faraday's voice they hear in the video," but thats probably not true.

[wiley]

It's quite possible that the day that Ms. Hawking talks to her young son playing the piano in fact IS 1977 and she just had this memory of herself shooting him. That is what makes her decide to talk to him about destiny.
I believe that Dan was shot at the very moment that he was playing the piano as a kid.

[alanfxu]

I think some of you are missing the point. Daniel is dead, and I think this episode actually confirms the WHH theory. Daniel is so determined to change the past, that he gets himself killed, but that is ALWAYS what happened. I think the purpose of his death is to show that these people CAN NOT change anything. I think he realizes this at the in his final moments, when he realizes his mother knew he would die, and he realizes he was wrong.

Of course this is just my theory, but I think all the proof is there. I think at this point that it is very safe to say that you can not change anything.

i agree 10000%

the most trivial simplistic event needed for daniel to even BE on the island in the first place was caused by his very last final moment of life. his whole life was pretty much predetermined. its what lead elloise to her task of raising him to fullfill his fate.

i dont think anyone is changing anything. and attempts of changing something will lead to the causes and effect actions that made it happen in the first place.

[Merge!]

It's quite possible that the day that Ms. Hawking talks to her young son playing the piano in fact IS 1977 and she just had this memory of herself shooting him. That is what makes her decide to talk to him about destiny.
I believe that Dan was shot at the very moment that he was playing the piano as a kid.

If Dan was shot at the very moment that he was playing the piano as a kid, then he would have been playing the piano in a tent. Elouise shot him on the island, and in the scene with Daniel playing the piano, they seem to be in a nice suburban home. Unless somehow there is a house, right outside of the view of the tents.

[Merge!]

I don't think Dan can be dead, if he died, then he died in 1977 so how could he have been alive to be recruited to go to the island and do everything we have seen him do since before they flashed back to 1977. If he did in fact die and that what always happened how does it explain what had with him living his life and doing all his research past 1977. Now I guess he could of died and then this would set off some sort of butterfly effect where everything is now completely different but it seems they still plan on using Dan's research/ book and ideas to try and change what had happened but again if he died in 1977 how could any of this be possible ?

That's because his present self died in 1977, which wouldn't affect his past at all. He did all of the research prior to his death. Time travel and all.

[wiley]

If Dan was shot at the very moment that he was playing the piano as a kid, then he would have been playing the piano in a tent. Elouise shot him on the island, and in the scene with Daniel playing the piano, they seem to be in a nice suburban home. Unless somehow there is a house, right outside of the view of the tents.

In 1977 off the island Dan is about ten years old. While in 2004 he jumps to 1974 with the rest of the losties. After spending about three years in Michigan he comes back to the island in 1977 as an adult around 35 years old and gets shot. In 1977 he is off the island at the age of 10 AND on the island at the age of 35 at the same time.

[Merge!]

In 1977 off the island Dan is about ten years old. While in 2004 he jumps to 1974 with the rest of the losties. After spending about three years in Michigan he comes back to the island in 1977 as an adult around 35 years old and gets shot. In 1977 he is off the island at the age of 10 AND on the island at the age of 35 at the same time.

Yes, but Elouise (I guess being the constant in your theory) shoots Daniel on the island. How could she be on the island killing Daniel, while off the island at the same time crying as she makes young Daniel stop playing the piano?

Was I taking your statement "I believe that Dan was shot at the very moment that he was playing the piano as a kid" too literally? I would think the piano playing incident was a little while after the shooting of Daniel. After everything has already played itself out on the island, and Elouise has been able to read the journal. For whatever reason, she then realizes Daniel's destiny in the whole matter, and is crying because she finally realizes what she must do.

[wiley]

Yes, but Elouise (I guess being the constant in your theory) shoots Daniel on the island. How could she be on the island killing Daniel, while off the island at the same time crying as she makes young Daniel stop playing the piano?

Was I taking your statement "I believe that Dan was shot at the very moment that he was playing the piano as a kid" too literally? I would think the piano playing incident was a little while after the shooting of Daniel. After everything has already played itself out on the island, and Elouise has been able to read the journal. For whatever reason, she then realizes Daniel's destiny in the whole matter, and is crying because she finally realizes what she must do.

If Dan can be in two places at the same time (different ages) why can't Ellie?

Also Dan is not the only person that is in two places at the same time.
Hurley born 1977
Kate born 1977
Sawyer born 1969
Sayid born 1967
Jin born 1974

All of these people are in two places at different ages at the same time.
And I believe that something within the 1974 to 1977 time-frame plays a part
in each of these characters young lives.

[Merge!]

If Dan can be in two places at the same time (different ages) why can't Ellie?

Also Dan is not the only person that is in two places at the same time.
Hurley born 1977
Kate born 1977
Sawyer born 1969
Sayid born 1967
Jin born 1974

All of these people are in two places at different ages at the same time.
And I believe that something within the 1974 to 1977 time-frame plays a part
in each of these characters young lives.

Dan has been willingly time travelling. I've never been under the impression that Ellie was time travelling too. But, now I understand what you are saying. If Ellie is time travelling on the island as well. The Ellie that is alive off the island at that very moment suddenly has the memory of shooting Daniel, and stops him from playing piano. The same way Daniel visited Des and told him to find Ellie, and Desmond wakes up with the memory.

Do I follow?

Personally, I think the piano scene takes place after she shoots Daniel.

[wiley]

Dan has been willingly time travelling. I've never been under the impression that Ellie was time travelling too. But, now I understand what you are saying. If Ellie is time travelling on the island as well. The Ellie that is alive off the island at that very moment suddenly has the memory of shooting Daniel, and stops him from playing piano. The same way Daniel visited Des and told him to find Ellie, and Desmond wakes up with the memory.

Do I follow?

Personally, I think the piano scene takes place after she shoots Daniel.

Yes that's what I mean.
Oh yeah Miles was also born in 1977. I don't think this year is arbitrary as far as the story goes. It is a significant year for all of our players.

[Turnip Queen]

I don't think he's dead yet either - when young Ben got shot by Sayid I didn't know what to think but you didn't see the scene after it until the next episode! You only saw Dan just after he got shot so he might be saved yet!

[smthng2dowthlost]

^^^ wishful thinker That eloise is a pretty good shot right in the middle of the back I think it even went through his stomach was bleeding.

[Turnip Queen]

^^^ wishful thinker That eloise is a pretty good shot right in the middle of the back I think it even went through his stomach was bleeding.

They REALLY get good facial matches for people on that show! That younger woman really looked like she could be Eloise as a younger woman! And the young Charles Widmore really looked like him too! That must be mad if you're the younger one and knowing who you're supposed to look like!