Changing History

[mattyboyUK]

Ok there has been a lot of talk on these forums about, forgive me if this has been covered, 815 not crashing, reasons how 316 crashed, changing History, Faraday Dead/alive etc. Now Daniel's idea was to prevent the 'incident' at the Swan, thus, preventing 815 from crashing. He 'could' have achieved this not being a passenger, however surely any one from the crash E.G. Jack and Kate could not because this would create a paradox. So my belief is he is dead and any attempts by anyone from the plane will end in failure.

Thoughts People?

[outatime1985]

there will be no paradox because of free will any one has an equal chance of lifeor death now thanks to mrs. hawking give a vauble statement by say "i dont know whats going to happen now for the first time in my life" so jack and kate to us are from the future but to faradays math they are in there present in 1973.. you cant change the past put you can change the future

[Waitin4Godot]

Daniel may or may not be dead... this is Lost afterall. Regardless, we know the plane crashed... so whatever Daniel does (or wanted to do) fails.

If, somehow, the plane didn't crash... Losties no on island... and everything we've seen is, at best, a dream of some sort. A totally wastesd story. Kate goes to jail, Locke's in a wheelchair... Sawyer goes off to con someone... Juilette stays stuck on the Island.. Ben might die from the tumor... Jack buries his dead... etc. All the development we've seen goes right out the window. Totally wasted.

[Waitin4Godot]

there will be no paradox because of free will any one has an equal chance of lifeor death now thanks to mrs. hawking give a vauble statement by say "i dont know whats going to happen now for the first time in my life" so jack and kate to us are from the future but to faradays math they are in there present in 1973.. you cant change the past put you can change the future

For Hawking, she's always known at some point Daniel would die.. and now that Ben/Jack ect are back, she knows that's finally "happened" -- though it really always happened. For her, she's no longer sure what's going to happen -- that's not to say someone else doesn't already know.

Jack/Kate are back in the 70's doing exactly everything they already did (at least from the 2000's point of view). If they 'fix' something so the plane doesn't crash, then you do have a paradox -- no plane crash, means no Jack/Kate in the 70's to stop the plane crash...

[mattyboyUK]

there will be no paradox because of free will any one has an equal chance of lifeor death now thanks to mrs. hawking give a vauble statement by say "i dont know whats going to happen now for the first time in my life" so jack and kate to us are from the future but to faradays math they are in there present in 1973.. you cant change the past put you can change the future



I'm a little confused buy your reply. Of course any of the people from 815 could die in the present ( '77 ) that is totally possible. That is there present.

The paradox comes from, lets say for example Jack.

815 crashes in 2004 caused by the electromagnetism in the hatch. Jack lands on Island.

Leave's island six months later.

Jack returns to the island in '77 and stops the accident which causes the electromagnetism.

So, Jack has stopped the accident from happening and there was no reason to build the system which releases the pressure every 108 minutes.

These events mean that 27 years later ( 2004 ) the hatch as we know it would not be there. So there would not be a build up of electromagnetism. No build up no crash.

If Jack never Crashed on the island he would have got to America, buried his dad and got on with his life. If this had happened then he would never have been on the Island, never returned, never stopped the accident in '77. THAT IS THE PARADOX

If Faraday ( on his own with no help from Jack ) had stopped the accident then this would change events because he was never on 815. Now he is ( we think ) dead he cant do that.

Hope that make's sense to you

[tpbaxter]

Ok there has been a lot of talk on these forums about, forgive me if this has been covered, 815 not crashing, reasons how 316 crashed, changing History, Faraday Dead/alive etc. Now Daniel's idea was to prevent the 'incident' at the Swan, thus, preventing 815 from crashing. He 'could' have achieved this not being a passenger, however surely any one from the crash E.G. Jack and Kate could not because this would create a paradox. So my belief is he is dead and any attempts by anyone from the plane will end in failure.

Thoughts People?

it's funny you should bring this up because I was just reading about this very same thing in at least 5 other threads right now ;)

i am a WHHer and I believe the WHHers will unite to fight the anti-WHHers in a holy war of biblical proportions. The ones who don't care either way, or as I like to call them, the DCEW'ers (Don't Care Either Way) will inherit the earth after the WHH'ers and the anti-WHH'ers kill each other off.

[HisNameIsRobertPaulson]

So my belief is he is dead and any attempts by anyone from the plane will end in failure.

Thoughts People?

I'm with you. I believe that just because we are watching the historical account unfold does not mean that it can be changed from WHH. We're not witnessing anything different than what actually happened. We're just seeing the perception of choices just as the characters are seeing them.

The twist is merely that even as they are trying to *change* what they thought happened once, they are merely acting out their part in the one and only historical account of that particular time frame.

[DeathMag84]

Faraday is dead! Jack, Kate, etc. they are going to cause "The Incident". Whatever Happened, Happened. They ain't going to change anything.

[mattyboyUK]

Faraday is dead! Jack, Kate, etc. they are going to cause "The Incident". Whatever Happened, Happened. They ain't going to change anything.

I like that! That is totally possible. Nice.

[370662]

Faraday is dead! Jack, Kate, etc. they are going to cause "The Incident". Whatever Happened, Happened. They ain't going to change anything.

true but what im confused about is that faraday said you can change the future, not the past.
Is the losties' tomorrow classified as the future or the past? lol

[HisNameIsRobertPaulson]

true but what im confused about is that faraday said you can change the future, not the past.
Is the losties' tomorrow classified as the future or the past? lol

IMO, Faraday was just incorrect (which is also why he died). You can't change the future or the past. Not only WHH, but WWHWH (what will happen will happen). One's future is another's past. If the past can't be changed, then it can't be changed.

[Waitin4Godot]

true but what im confused about is that faraday said you can change the future, not the past.
Is the losties' tomorrow classified as the future or the past? lol

The future may not be set in stone... but once someone knows for sure what the future will be, it's no longer a variable -- it's known and can't be changed. The plane with the Losties will crash.

Perhaps one can change what they THINK will happen -- but should anyone actually know the coming event... well, you can't change it.

Does that make any sense?

[Brother Desmond]

true but what im confused about is that faraday said you can change the future, not the past.
Is the losties' tomorrow classified as the future or the past? lol

I don't think Faraday has ever said you can change the future. In fact, I can think of a specific example when he explicity says you can not change the future.

From "The Constant"

Daniel: "This is where I do all the things Oxford frowns upon." Daniel grabs his journal. "Alright, this future version of me, uh, he referenced this meeting, right? Obviously, so I'm going to remember you coming to Oxford. I'm going to remember this here, right, now."

Desmond: "Actually, no. Maybe you just forgot."

Daniel: "Yeah, right." "How would that happen?"

Desmond: "So, this is changing the future?"

Daniel: "You can't change the future."

[mhzmike]

previously on "LOST"....

I've posted several times that we STILL DON'T know the show's "present time"....Isn't it fascinating that we can watch two time parallels unfold at the same location.....stay tuned......

[HisNameIsRobertPaulson]

Isn't it fascinating that we can watch two time parallels unfold at the same location.....stay tuned......

I think the show makes it pretty clear that they are not "parallels" as they reference "30 years earlier" to make this distinction. That distinction being that it is referring to a completely different era on the timeline, a look into the past.

[abcd1234]

besides, due to course correction, even if the swan was never built 816 could crash for some other reason. maybe thats why lepidus was not the pilot

[krakup]

besides, due to course correction, even if the swan was never built 815 could crash for some other reason. maybe thats why lepidus was not the pilot

thats right 815 cld crash

[mattyboyUK]

I'm a little confused buy your reply. Of course any of the people from 815 could die in the present ( '77 ) that is totally possible. That is there present.

The paradox comes from, lets say for example Jack.

815 crashes in 2004 caused by the electromagnetism in the hatch. Jack lands on Island.

Leave's island six months later.

Jack returns to the island in '77 and stops the accident which causes the electromagnetism.

So, Jack has stopped the accident from happening and there was no reason to build the system which releases the pressure every 108 minutes.

These events mean that 27 years later ( 2004 ) the hatch as we know it would not be there. So there would not be a build up of electromagnetism. No build up no crash.

If Jack never Crashed on the island he would have got to America, buried his dad and got on with his life. If this had happened then he would never have been on the Island, never returned, never stopped the accident in '77. THAT IS THE PARADOX

If Faraday ( on his own with no help from Jack ) had stopped the accident then this would change events because he was never on 815. Now he is ( we think ) dead he cant do that.

Hope that make's sense to you

Just thought I would bring this thred back to your attention, with all this talk flying about today