My top Hmmm's from tonight

[az-phil]

A few things stuck out tonight that I keep thinking about:

1. Jack said that they crashed in the water. We all know it's a lie, but I question why their story would say the crash was in the water. Assuming people would visit the island during or after the rescue and possibly find some of the wreckage, why would they say that?

Seems the reason would be to indicate they crashed somewhere else so that they could protect the island. Either because people are still there, or because they made a deal to hide the island.

2. Kate made a comment to Jack that he almost sounds like he is starting to believe their cover story. This indicates that the "6" all have a very rehersed story around how the crash happened. Jack said 8 survived, so I'm curious who the 2 were that supposedly died before the rescue.

3. So Kate has Claire's baby Aaron. Wonder if the story is that Claire was one of the 2 that died at the crash, and she adopted the baby. Would be tough to swallow that they let some criminal adopt her baby. Or did enough time pass that Kate is passing the baby off as her own. Seems more likely, but now I'm wondering about the timeline for the rescue for that to work out.

Things that make you go hmmm....

[Suecq]

I wonder why Kate's lawyer wanted to bring the baby in?? He said something about sympothy.....hmmmm.

[LockeFan]

A few things stuck out tonight that I keep thinking about:

1. Jack said that they crashed in the water. We all know it's a lie, but I question why their story would say the crash was in the water. Assuming people would visit the island during or after the rescue and possibly find some of the wreckage, why would they say that?

Seems the reason would be to indicate they crashed somewhere else so that they could protect the island. Either because people are still there, or because they made a deal to hide the island.

2. Kate made a comment to Jack that he almost sounds like he is starting to believe their cover story. This indicates that the "6" all have a very rehersed story around how the crash happened. Jack said 8 survived, so I'm curious who the 2 were that supposedly died before the rescue.

3. So Kate has Claire's baby Aaron. Wonder if the story is that Claire was one of the 2 that died at the crash, and she adopted the baby. Would be tough to swallow that they let some criminal adopt her baby. Or did enough time pass that Kate is passing the baby off as her own. Seems more likely, but now I'm wondering about the timeline for the rescue for that to work out.

Things that make you go hmmm....

To answer #1: I think that they can get away with lying about the island because that the island is located in a place (or maybe time) that cannot be reached unless you know how to get there. It has been suggested many other times on this board so I will not get into the specifics of that. If so, then the real wreckage and/or survivors cannot be found.

#2: Sounds good to me. They possibly could have just said 8 people to make the story more believable. If 6 people survived the crash and 6 people returned, that would be kinda hard to swallow. But if they say that 8 people survived the crash, but only 6 of them survived until they were rescued, that would sound more believable. Or possibly they said 8 just in case they find the bodies of Michael and Walt somewhere besides the fake "wreckage" because those two left the island and could be anywhere, and the O6 plus Michael/Walt would make 8 total.

#3: I think that could go either way....both theories would work out imo.

[King_Nate]

yea i dont think they will mention the island at all, and they said 8 survived but only 6 were rescued, i wonder who the 2 who they say died,

[GiantKing]

When Jack is testifying, he says that Kate and him met when their plane crashlanded on an island in the south pacific. Also when he is talking about how she rescued him and others he said i dont think i would have made it to shore without her, and how she found food and water for them.

Of course they could have staged the rescue at another island to stay away from The Island but they did talk about an island. I bet whoever devised the cover story had kate be the heroine exactly for the purpose of helping her stay out of jail.

[zincer]

1. Jack said that they crashed in the water. We all know it's a lie, but I question why their story would say the crash was in the water. Assuming people would visit the island during or after the rescue and possibly find some of the wreckage, why would they say that?

Their story must be to help whoever orchestrated the "found" wreckage of the plane underwater. It is all to protect the island from visitors. I think it is damage control all orchestrated by Ben.

[Meditate]

I think it may be damage control by Ben, with the help of Sayid - but at the end of the day... Jack is the only one to have two different timeframe flash forwards. One where he just accepts the role he is to play, unlike Hurley or Kate or Sayid, but last season's finale he was helpless and bearded and lost. What gives? Or better yet what happened to make him snap?

[justjoe]

He says they crashed on an island in the South Pacific at the trial. But we know later on that they "find" the wreckage in the water. Someone is sure to put two and two together and see that Jack lied.

The story of the 8 survivors is a fabrication. They were all told to say the same thing in order to keep the secret of the island and the other survivors, well, secret.

I believe Claire dies and Kate claims the baby as her own.

[bunnydixon]

yes i think he says that so their story gels with the plane being found in the ocean. i think he lies about the other survivors aswell - and they are still on the island but i dont know why.

i think her lawyer wanted to bring aaron in as juries tend to be less harsh on mothers. however, i dont know if it is aaron from the island or her own child with the same name. i just dont know how the story of him being hers would work in regard to the time etc...also i agree - i dont think they would let a fugitive adopt a baby. i mean claires mother is dead as is her father (although he may not be named on her birth certificate so even if he was alive they may not have tracked him down) but we know she has an aunt.

[LostandFound]

He says they crashed on an island in the South Pacific at the trial. But we know later on that they "find" the wreckage in the water. Someone is sure to put two and two together and see that Jack lied.

The story of the 8 survivors is a fabrication. They were all told to say the same thing in order to keep the secret of the island and the other survivors, well, secret.

I believe Claire dies and Kate claims the baby as her own.

I agree Joe. I think Claire somehow gets sick or wounded and asks Kate to take Aaron off the island and raise him as HER OWN, knowing that she will die. Notice that Aaron called Kate "Mom", not Kate. They don't even want Aaron to remember the island? It seemed last night that they were trying to show Kate and Claire forming a stronger bond, especially with Claire telling Kate that she would be a good mother. I am a little confused though as to why Jack doesn't want to visit Kate and the baby who I think he dosn't know is Aaron.

[LostandFound]

yes i think he says that so their story gels with the plane being found in the ocean. i think he lies about the other survivors aswell - and they are still on the island but i dont know why.

i think her lawyer wanted to bring aaron in as juries tend to be less harsh on mothers. however, i dont know if it is aaron from the island or her own child with the same name. i just dont know how the story of him being hers would work in regard to the time etc...also i agree - i dont think they would let a fugitive adopt a baby. i mean claires mother is dead as is her father (although he may not be named on her birth certificate so even if he was alive they may not have tracked him down) but we know she has an aunt.

I thought that too Bunny at first, but the one thing that struck me was baby Aaron's features. He's so fair and blond, he does look like Claire. Also, maybe Kate dosn't have custody of Aaron. Who was that lady that greeted Kate when she got home, maybe she has something to do with an arrangement?

[Junkhead]

I was wondering that too. If it was Sawyer's kid, then I could understand Jack not wanting to see him, out of jealously or what have you. My guess is that it's somehow tied into Jack and Claire being related.

[heavensprincess]

yea i dont think they will mention the island at all, and they said 8 survived but only 6 were rescued, i wonder who the 2 who they say died,

Well we know 1 of the 2 that died was the marshall. Jack said in his testimony that the marshall was one of the eight.

[astolpho]

First off, not necisarily the marshall, as Jack said he died in the crash, he wouldn't be counted as one of the eight survivors, at least survivors to the island.

Ponderous question though... Does Aaron count as one of the Oceanic Six? If so, then there would be three dead on the island. 8-3 equals five, plus an unborn Aaron who wouldn't be one of the survivors to the island, but would count as a survivor from the rescue attempt.

[bunnydixon]

yes thats right - so perhaps he counts aaron as the last one? did he defo say the other 2 died?

[bunnydixon]

First off, not necisarily the marshall, as Jack said he died in the crash, he wouldn't be counted as one of the eight survivors, at least survivors to the island.

Ponderous question though... Does Aaron count as one of the Oceanic Six? If so, then there would be three dead on the island. 8-3 equals five, plus an unborn Aaron who wouldn't be one of the survivors to the island, but would count as a survivor from the rescue attempt.

actually you are right i think - but we remember the marshall dying so automatically count him without thinking about it.

but as i said - do you think he counts aaron as one of the 8 - but not one of the oceanic 6?

[justjoe]

Well could be that he doesn't want to visit the baby because he thinks it's Sawyers baby. Right now only Kate and Sawyer know that she is not pregnant. But then again he would know what Aaron looks like.

[heavensprincess]

First off, not necisarily the marshall, as Jack said he died in the crash, he wouldn't be counted as one of the eight survivors, at least survivors to the island.

Ponderous question though... Does Aaron count as one of the Oceanic Six? If so, then there would be three dead on the island. 8-3 equals five, plus an unborn Aaron who wouldn't be one of the survivors to the island, but would count as a survivor from the rescue attempt.

Oh you are right he did say he died in the crash. I think Claire is probably 1 of the 8

[astolpho]

The reason he doesn't want to visit the baby could be because Claire dies and the doctor in him feels responsible for not being able to save her... I think something traumatic happens when the Oceanic Six leave, which causes a huge amount of guilt in Jack and eventually his downward spiral, the results of which end in what we saw in the Season finally last year...

(As I was typing, more thoughts came. We know that something tragic happens, it causes Jacks downward spiral and Sayid's turn towards being Ben's hitman. What if the freighter crew turns on the Islanders like Ben and Locke warned, and Claire dies in the crossfires. Jack would feel guilty for bringing the freighter there in the first place, and maybe couldn't face Aaron out of guilt for getting her mom killed. Sayid could have been in a place to stop it, if he had thought "more with his gun" and less with hope to get off the island...) Just thoughts...

[bunnydixon]

but does kate definitely know? she might just be testing sawyers reaction (which was hilarious!)

[justjoe]

I think Sawyer failed that test.

[bunnydixon]

what gave it away? :p

he is very patient with her though - she is all over the place!!!

[darlingangel81]

Here's my thought. Maybe Kate really is pregnant by Sawyer, and maybe her telling him she wasn't was a way to see how he would react, find out his true feelings. It could be that the Aaron that she has is Sawyers, and she named him Aaron after Claire's Aaron.

Also, after rewatching this morning, I caught that Claire's Aaron has blue eyes like Claire, Kate's Aaron had brown eyes, like Sawyer. Hmmmmm.

[bunnydixon]

Here's my thought. Maybe Kate really is pregnant by Sawyer, and maybe her telling him she wasn't was a way to see how he would react, find out his true feelings. It could be that the Aaron that she has is Sawyers, and she named him Aaron after Claire's Aaron.

Also, after rewatching this morning, I caught that Claire's Aaron has blue eyes like Claire, Kate's Aaron had brown eyes, like Sawyer. Hmmmmm.


aah great minds :D

i agree with you that this is entirely possible. like i said she is all over the place so that could be the early hormone fluctuations kicking in and also - how could she explain being a hero when so heavily pregnant (if she IS passing claires aaron off as her own) and the marshall and FBI would have known if she was pregnant when they took her into custody.

[DOubleDown]

I think it may be damage control by Ben, with the help of Sayid - but at the end of the day... Jack is the only one to have two different timeframe flash forwards. One where he just accepts the role he is to play, unlike Hurley or Kate or Sayid, but last season's finale he was helpless and bearded and lost. What gives? Or better yet what happened to make him snap?

I think that you may have hit on an interesting point, who is to say that the 2 flash forwards are linked? Could they be 2 different possible outcomes? With Desmonds little time travel excursions, is there a possibility that things can be changed? I know this one is far-fetched but what on this show isn't...

Also, Aaron is at least 3 maybe 4 or 5 in Kate's flash forward....they have been on the island, what, 100 or so days?... Where is the rest of that time? How long do they end up being missing? How long have they been back in the states? Are there any clues to that?

On the topic of "the other two": I don't think the other 2 will be michael and walt unless they are dead. In Jack's testimony, he started to say that Kate tried to save them, but they....and then he was cut off. I think that the other 2 really are dead and their bodies have been found.

[zincer]

I think Claire somehow gets sick or wounded and asks Kate to take Aaron off the island and raise him as HER OWN, knowing that she will die.

Desmond's last vision of Charlie turning off the radio jammer also saw Claire and Aaron getting into a helicopter and leaving the island. So far, his visions have been spot on.

So, either something happens on the ship, or maybe Claire IS one of the six and for some reason needs Kate to take Aaron (unlikely).

I do believe we will find Kate is with Ben...as he has a history of taking children not his own and raising them. Kate may be there only to protect Aaron.

That would be weird and disturbing... but that is LOST.

[LostandFound]

Desmond's last vision of Charlie turning off the radio jammer also saw Claire and Aaron getting into a helicopter and leaving the island. So far, his visions have been spot on.

So, either something happens on the ship, or maybe Claire IS one of the six and for some reason needs Kate to take Aaron (unlikely).

I do believe we will find Kate is with Ben...as he has a history of taking children not his own and raising them. Kate may be there only to protect Aaron.

That would be weird and disturbing... but that is LOST.


Yeah, I think something happens to Claire either on the helicopter or the frieghter. I s:rolleyes:till have doubts though that Kate is with Ben. But, I also doubted that Aaron was with Kate, and look how that turned out! LOL

[LostandFound]

OOOPS! Where did that icon come from! lol

[DOubleDown]

I was wondering that too. If it was Sawyer's kid, then I could understand Jack not wanting to see him, out of jealously or what have you. My guess is that it's somehow tied into Jack and Claire being related.

or jack had somehtin to do with claire's death. i don't mean he caused it but he may FEEL responsible

[justme]

Here's my thought. Maybe Kate really is pregnant by Sawyer, and maybe her telling him she wasn't was a way to see how he would react, find out his true feelings. It could be that the Aaron that she has is Sawyers, and she named him Aaron after Claire's Aaron.

Also, after rewatching this morning, I caught that Claire's Aaron has blue eyes like Claire, Kate's Aaron had brown eyes, like Sawyer. Hmmmmm.

Nice catch

[justjoe]

Desmonds visions haven't always been spot on. He said Penny would be parachuting in and instead it was Naomi.

Secondly Kate's Aaron was in a big boy bed and they have only been back for about a year at the time of the trial. According to Matthew Fox the flashforward at the airport was about 1 1/2 years after the rescue. If that's true Kate's baby would be an infant in a crib.

[Dharma Initiate 815]

or jack had somehtin to do with claire's death. i don't mean he caused it but he may FEEL responsible

Yeah maybe somewhere between present day and Jack at the court he found out that Claire is his sister. And possibly feels responsible for what happened to her. that would account for him not wanting to see her.

[zincer]

Desmonds visions haven't always been spot on. He said Penny would be parachuting in and instead it was Naomi.


Hmmm. Did he say he saw Penny? Naomi did have Penny's photograph when she parachuted. Could be his vision have seen just her image. I might have to go back and watch that episode again.

[bunnydixon]

Hmmm. Did he say he saw Penny? Naomi did have Penny's photograph when she parachuted. Could be his vision have seen just her image. I might have to go back and watch that episode again.

interesting point - maybe he misinterpreted the vision. maybe he did see claire and aaron get on a helicopter but maybe claire is dead and they are bringing her body back?

[justjoe]

Or maybe replace Claire and Aaron with Kate and Aaron.

[Junkhead]

I like the naming her child after Claire's theory.

[justjoe]

Yeah Junk but the age of the child is too old for it to be Kates baby.

[Junkhead]

Too true, too true. Lol, I must be gettin' tired.

[agmic]

who's to say that Kate didn't have a kid before the crash ????

[darlingangel81]

As a mother of a 3 and 6 year old. Kate's Aaron is definatley around 2 to 2 and a half. Just because he's in a big boy bed means nothing. I put my kids in a big boy bed at 2.

I can't wait to see how the rest of this unfolds!

[kbeideman]

Hmmm....it says in the credits:
William Blanchette as two year old boy

so Aaron is only 2 in the 'flashforward' ?

hmmmm :confused:

[robert]

A few things stuck out tonight that I keep thinking about:

1. Jack said that they crashed in the water. We all know it's a lie, but I question why their story would say the crash was in the water. Assuming people would visit the island during or after the rescue and possibly find some of the wreckage, why would they say that?

Seems the reason would be to indicate they crashed somewhere else so that they could protect the island. Either because people are still there, or because they made a deal to hide the island.

2. Kate made a comment to Jack that he almost sounds like he is starting to believe their cover story. This indicates that the "6" all have a very rehersed story around how the crash happened. Jack said 8 survived, so I'm curious who the 2 were that supposedly died before the rescue.

3. So Kate has Claire's baby Aaron. Wonder if the story is that Claire was one of the 2 that died at the crash, and she adopted the baby. Would be tough to swallow that they let some criminal adopt her baby. Or did enough time pass that Kate is passing the baby off as her own. Seems more likely, but now I'm wondering about the timeline for the rescue for that to work out.

Things that make you go hmmm....
Another strange thing: did anyone notice when Sawyer and Kate are in bed in the morning that Sawyer's hair is back in one shot then down in the next, then back in the next then down in the next. I mean it really look like they were splicing two different times together.

[Dharma Initiate 815]

We probably were not supposed to notice that.

[mirizarry716]

1. We already know that they're all lying either to protect themselves or the ones left on the island.

2. Jack says 8 people survived the crash & he also says that the Marshall died on the island....so that leaves them with 7. We have yet to find out who the other is.

3. Now, I believe that something happened to Claire & Kate (for whatever reason) was chosen to raise Aaron. Remember, the interview w/Matthew Fox....he did say that the flash forwards are approx 1 1/2 years in the future, which will make Aaron 2 years old so the timing works out perfectly. ALSO, the public must believe it's her naturally born child becuz her mother seems to believe that he is her grandson.

[Dharma Initiate 815]

I think he said that the Marshall died in the crash, not necisarily on the island. Does anyone remember?

[iptydafoo]

I agree Joe. I think Claire somehow gets sick or wounded and asks Kate to take Aaron off the island and raise him as HER OWN, knowing that she will die. Notice that Aaron called Kate "Mom", not Kate. They don't even want Aaron to remember the island? It seemed last night that they were trying to show Kate and Claire forming a stronger bond, especially with Claire telling Kate that she would be a good mother. I am a little confused though as to why Jack doesn't want to visit Kate and the baby who I think he dosn't know is Aaron.


Yeah... did you see the look on Kate's face when Claire made the comment about her being a good morning... longing, hurt, confused, tormented. Seemed almost like maybe she had already been a mother who lost their child. Perhaps daddy was the daddy, and hence, needed to die.

I think Jack must have had something to do with Clairs death... or at least feels responsible, that's why he doesn't want to see the child. I think Jack, even thinking the kid might be Sawyers, wouldn't be so apprehensive to see him.

[mirizarry716]

I don't believe that baby is Sawyers. The timing is all off. If that was the case then the kid should be a baby in a crib....not a toddler.

[shamar]

I think Jack knows the baby is Aaron. Also, don't you think Jack may have found out that him and Claire share the same father. This might add to the guilt. I think seeing the baby might be too painful for Jack, who eventually realizes he made the biggest mistake of his life (leaving the island and whatever else they have to lie about).

[conkeys19]

Desmonds visions haven't always been spot on. He said Penny would be parachuting in and instead it was Naomi.

Secondly Kate's Aaron was in a big boy bed and they have only been back for about a year at the time of the trial. According to Matthew Fox the flashforward at the airport was about 1 1/2 years after the rescue. If that's true Kate's baby would be an infant in a crib.


In Desmond's vision he was hoping it was Penny, he never actually knew it was her. Even if it was suppossed to be Penny in the "vision", Charlie had to die for it to be Penny. Since Des didn't want Charlie to die he saved Charlie's life. He altered his vision, so now reality became altered and it wasn't Penny.

[conkeys19]

A few things stuck out tonight that I keep thinking about:

1. Jack said that they crashed in the water. We all know it's a lie, but I question why their story would say the crash was in the water. Assuming people would visit the island during or after the rescue and possibly find some of the wreckage, why would they say that?

Seems the reason would be to indicate they crashed somewhere else so that they could protect the island. Either because people are still there, or because they made a deal to hide the island.

2. Kate made a comment to Jack that he almost sounds like he is starting to believe their cover story. This indicates that the "6" all have a very rehersed story around how the crash happened. Jack said 8 survived, so I'm curious who the 2 were that supposedly died before the rescue.

3. So Kate has Claire's baby Aaron. Wonder if the story is that Claire was one of the 2 that died at the crash, and she adopted the baby. Would be tough to swallow that they let some criminal adopt her baby. Or did enough time pass that Kate is passing the baby off as her own. Seems more likely, but now I'm wondering about the timeline for the rescue for that to work out.

Things that make you go hmmm....

1. Jack had to say they crashed in the water because the boat was found in the middle of the ocean. Which now makes me wonder how did they get to an island from the middle of the ocean? Also weren't all of the bodies found down in the trench? So how all of a sudden are the Oceanic 6 alive?

2. I don't think one of the two of the "8" in their story that survived is the Marshal. They just said he died in the crash. I don't think Claire was one of the "8", I think they are just trying to pass Aaron off as Kate's kid.

I agree with others in here that Jack doesn't want to see Aaron because he feels guilty that maybe he convinced his half sister to come aboard the freighter and she ends up dieing.

[XmasDVD]

I agree Joe. I think Claire somehow gets sick or wounded and asks Kate to take Aaron off the island and raise him as HER OWN, knowing that she will die. Notice that Aaron called Kate "Mom", not Kate. They don't even want Aaron to remember the island? It seemed last night that they were trying to show Kate and Claire forming a stronger bond, especially with Claire telling Kate that she would be a good mother. I am a little confused though as to why Jack doesn't want to visit Kate and the baby who I think he dosn't know is Aaron.

I think Kate has led Jack to believe that he is the father of the baby but she doesn't expect him to drop everything and marry her/be a full time dad. She actually didn't get pregnant and has had Aaron for whatever reason.

Maybe she owes Claire on her deathbed to take Aaron as her own.

[katehair]

Here's my thought. Maybe Kate really is pregnant by Sawyer, and maybe her telling him she wasn't was a way to see how he would react, find out his true feelings. It could be that the Aaron that she has is Sawyers, and she named him Aaron after Claire's Aaron.

Also, after rewatching this morning, I caught that Claire's Aaron has blue eyes like Claire, Kate's Aaron had brown eyes, like Sawyer. Hmmmmm.


As a mother of 2...babies can be (and usually are) born with blue eyes, but after a few months the color can change.

[Junkhead]

It could also just as easily be an overlooked detail that they missed.

[olive is found]

I believe the baby is Sawyers, the time frame would fit, i doubt as soon as they are back in the US she went straight to trial, so the baby could have been born and then the trial came up. (Any one who has eveidence as to how long it was between being found and kates trial, please pipe up!)

In the last episode, Kate slept with Sawyer, she was feeling maternal after speaking to Claire. The morning after she wanted Sawyer to slow down, it seemed she was testing Sawyer, he asked if she was worried about being pregnant and she said she wasn’t pregnant, How did she know she wasn’t? Is there a dharma pharmacy where she got a pregnancy test? Unless she started her period over night there is no way she can be sure she wasn’t pregnant. Jack may be upset stemming from when he saw them in the others cage post sex, he felt territorial about her getting pregnant by Sawyer and so doesn’t want to see the baby. I thought she said Eric to the baby but even if it was Arron she could have named him after Arron number 1:p

[bunnydixon]

if claire died on the island and wrote (and signed) that she wanted kate to become legal guardian of aaron - would that be honoured off the island?

[beachblinkette]

In the Old Testament, Aaron is a prophet who speaks for his brother Moses. We don't know and haven't seen what special powers baby Aaron possesses, but it's probably connected to his being named after the O.T. Aaron. He does seem to have a hold on Kate that may be similar to Michael's fixation on Walt.If the baby is Claire's son, then he may be the right age for being off the island. Someone posted a thread that Jack said the flashforewards were about one and one half years after rescue. I'm intrigued by how motherly Kate has become and her relationship to Aaron. In one f/f She tells Jack she can't stay long because "he's asleep".Doesn't she have a live-in Nanny? Could be grabbbing at straws here, but is Aaron already working his magic?

[az-phil]

In the last episode, Kate slept with Sawyer, she was feeling maternal after speaking to Claire. The morning after she wanted Sawyer to slow down...

Actually I understood him to say that they didn't go as far as sleeping together the night before, which is why he was trying to see if she would change her mind that morning. Then she pushed him away and did her little Sybil personality change thing... :cool:

[bunnydixon]

lol @ sybil!