Ben and Richard know the future!

[lostogether]

Ben had everyone out building a runway on the island, at the Hydra station, and Kate and Sawyer helped build it. Ben knew that he was coming back, in the future, as did Richard.
Richard and Ben's fears, are how Locke, can change the future, that they already know!

[t33h33]

Ben had everyone out building a runway on the island, at the Hydra station, and Kate and Sawyer helped build it. Ben knew that he was coming back, in the future, as did Richard.
Richard and Ben's fears, are how Locke, can change the future, that they already know!

Interesting, very pausable. So why is it locke can change the future? Is he the most special out of all 'people' ?? what makes Locke that extra bit special??

[Lostdude2341]

Interesting, very pausable. So why is it locke can change the future? Is he the most special out of all 'people' ?? what makes Locke that extra bit special??

Maybe because he died and came back to life. Thats special in my book. lol He said it himself, the island "tells him things." By the way, did anyone else see the interview where DL said that when people die and come back to life on the island its like a Pet Cemetery kind of thing? I really know where he was going with that now. lol :D

[t33h33]

Maybe because he died and came back to life. Thats special in my book. lol He said it himself, the island "tells him things." By the way, did anyone else see the interview where DL said that when people die and come back to life on the island its like a Pet Cemetery kind of thing? I really know where he was going with that now. lol :D

Well yeah, but why is that? Locke must have a deeper connection more than richard and ben for them to be scared? or maybe theyre scared as they dont like change? if richards had that postition forever his pension pot must be sky high probs will want to keep building it in this economic crisis lol! Oh pet cemetry ive not read that, although i was thinking about reading the stand? anyone read that yet??

[Nemesis Prime]

This is a very interesting post that no one is really talking about. Is 316 really the reason that runway was built there? Seems like a good possibility to me. This would also open up a scenario where Ben could be involved with Ilana's group (not my opinion personally but possible non the less).

[thatguycraig]

very good point about the runway - i missed that point.

at the time we saw them builind it, we were like... "wtf they building that for?"....


could it be a massive coincedence? could it be that it was built just INCASE a plane came, and ben happened to return on plane? could it be that ben KNEW he would be returning... OR.....

could one of the 70's losties mentioned that the runway would have to be built in the future

[wiley]

very good point about the runway - i missed that point.

at the time we saw them builind it, we were like... "wtf they building that for?"....


could it be a massive coincedence? could it be that it was built just INCASE a plane came, and ben happened to return on plane? could it be that ben KNEW he would be returning... OR.....

could one of the 70's losties mentioned that the runway would have to be built in the future

Jacob told them to build it.

[TrogdeLorean]

...could one of the 70's losties mentioned that the runway would have to be built in the future?...
Well, the Losties in the 1970's never saw the plane land.

Somehow I don't think that Ben and Richard know much more than they appear to. Maybe the island gave Ben some direction to indicate to him that they should build a runway but Ben didn't actually know the purpose of it.

[thatguycraig]

Well, the Losties in the 1970's never saw the plane land.

Somehow I don't think that Ben and Richard know much more than they appear to. Maybe the island gave Ben some direction to indicate to him that they should build a runway but Ben didn't actually know the purpose of it.

maybe - but ben seemed shocked that the island actually talked to locke - maybe indicating that it has never spoken to him?

fair play the 70's losties didnt see the plane landing - but they arrived on said plane, and whos betting that the future losties that did land dont tell the past losties sonehow.. a strech, but i didnt even think of the situation till someone mentioned the runway

[TrogdeLorean]

maybe - but ben seemed shocked that the island actually talked to locke - maybe indicating that it has never spoken to him?
I will admit I am picking and choosing somewhat arbitrarily which moments I think Ben lies and which moments he tells the truth, but I do feel that he probably lied when he told Locke that Jacob never spoke to him, and I think that he probably has seen Jacob before, but he is playing dumb so that Locke will become over-confident and make mistakes. It seems like Ben wants Locke to prove himself to be a poor leader so that the island will remove John and take Ben back. Ben knows now that he can't thwart the will of the island, so now his manipulations have risen to a totally new level - he is trying to manipulate the island itself.

[beachblinkette]

I will admit I am picking and choosing somewhat arbitrarily which moments I think Ben lies and which moments he tells the truth, but I do feel that he probably lied when he told Locke that Jacob never spoke to him, and I think that he probably has seen Jacob before, but he is playing dumb so that Locke will become over-confident and make mistakes. It seems like Ben wants Locke to prove himself to be a poor leader so that the island will remove John and take Ben back. Ben knows now that he can't thwart the will of the island, so now his manipulations have risen to a totally new level - he is trying to manipulate the island itself.

One theory I read somewhere else saw Ben as "playing the island" (he always has a plan) so that his real thoughts will not be discerned by the powers that be. In other words he is controlling his speech to either create his plan or to avoid being targeted by Smokie when the &%$# hits the fan. He is the master game player after all. Even the threat of real death doesn't scare some persons away from taking risks-( see movie example of various human Jackasses seemingly trying to kill themselves)

Also, I noticed that Richard clenched his jaws at the very end of one of the scenes just before they left to find Jughead via the pool. Have I been watching too much Lie To Me? IDK. Have the writers been "gilding the lily" as they say by letting us heap inordinate praise on Richard? Why does this golden boy now seem to be angry, disturbed, and not so supportive of John? And why does Richard have to go to the temple? If Richard is angry, what is the stoic man so angry about? Or is this just the writers affirming and using the cliche that very old persons like Richard can see the problems ahead and seeing them, then become extremely grumpy?

[chester]

One theory I read somewhere else saw Ben as "playing the island" (he always has a plan) so that his real thoughts will not be discerned by the powers that be. In other words he is controlling his speech to either create his plan or to avoid being targeted by Smokie when the &%$# hits the fan. He is the master game player after all. Even the threat of real death doesn't scare some persons away from taking risks-( see movie example of various human Jackasses seemingly trying to kill themselves)

Also, I noticed that Richard clenched his jaws at the very end of one of the scenes just before they left to find Jughead via the pool. Have I been watching too much Lie To Me? IDK. Have the writers been "gilding the lily" as they say by letting us heap inordinate praise on Richard? Why does this golden boy now seem to be angry, disturbed, and not so supportive of John? And why does Richard have to go to the temple? If Richard is angry, what is the stoic man so angry about? Or is this just the writers affirming and using the cliche that very old persons like Richard can see the problems ahead and seeing them, then become extremely grumpy?

Hmmm, I don't know. But maybe Richard is the/a constant. And if things keep changing around him, he needs to continually assesss the status quo of the 'current' present, to "advise" the new "leader" what to do next....

[beachblinkette]

Hmmm, I don't know. But maybe Richard is the/a constant. And if things keep changing around him, he needs to continually assesss the status quo of the 'current' present, to "advise" the new "leader" what to do next....
That could well be, Chester. He seems as equivocal as Ben is now, as he wavers somewhat between his glaring at Ben as if mad that he has returned and his negative comment about John TO Ben. It leaves me up in the air about the goodness of Richard and whether or not he WAS a "player" in regard to the omnipotence of Jacob. This, IMO, definitely goes along with the writers and the way they reveal their characters as in No Representation Without Speculation!! LOL

[DeathMag84]

Richard only knows what the island wants him to know. Thats why he didn't know the things that was or is going on.

[neil1]

I'm not sure where this fits, but Richard is involved in what Jack is trying to do with Jughead and with Locke's search for Jacob. So does the 2007 Richard know the results of the 1977 Richard/Jack actions? If so maybe he is confused because something he "knows" in 2007 is going to happen isn't transpiring they way it is supposed to.

[beachblinkette]

Richard only knows what the island wants him to know. Thats why he didn't know the things that was or is going on.
There's a lot of evidence to support what you say. That very thought raises so many questions now that we see how John had to tell Richard what to do in the wounded John sequence. Maybe the advisor IS only shown what the island wants him to see. But like the frustrated Richard we saw testing Locke when he was 5 and helping him get Sawyer to kill Anthony Cooper, the question is why? Why is Richard even an advisor if he being kept in the dark? Is he really as OLD as Juliet and Ben say? Maybe that's a facade or construction built around the real truth to obscure who he is?

[thatguycraig]

Hmmm, I don't know. But maybe Richard is the/a constant. And if things keep changing around him, he needs to continually assesss the status quo of the 'current' present, to "advise" the new "leader" what to do next....

thought that my self -

much like daniel says that he needs a constant - maybe richard is the ISLANDS constant? it time travels to and from - richard does not age...?

[DeathMag84]

There's a lot of evidence to support what you say. That very thought raises so many questions now that we see how John had to tell Richard what to do in the wounded John sequence. Maybe the advisor IS only shown what the island wants him to see. But like the frustrated Richard we saw testing Locke when he was 5 and helping him get Sawyer to kill Anthony Cooper, the question is why? Why is Richard even an advisor if he being kept in the dark? Is he really as OLD as Juliet and Ben say? Maybe that's a facade or construction built around the real truth to obscure who he is?
Yes, he is still that very old, and ageless Richard Alpert that we've come to know. And maybe the island is not leaving him in the dark about the wounded Locke thing because it hadn't happened yet. I still insist Richard is good.

[chester]

.. richard is the ISLANDS constant?....

I like that idea...

[thatguycraig]

I like that idea...

yea - i was thinkin it past few weeks - every one goes on about the constants - richard seems to be the only thing consistantly there.... glad the theory was not just hit out of the water

[chester]

yea - i was thinkin it past few weeks - every one goes on about the constants - richard seems to be the only thing consistantly there.... glad the theory was not just hit out of the water

It could quite well be. But I still like it ;)