Can John "kill" Jacob by using a Kill Switch mechanism?

[beachblinkette]

Quoted from Google:
KILL SWITCH
A kill switch is a mechanism used to shut down or disable machinery or a device or program. The purpose of a kill switch is usually either to prevent theft of a machine or data or as a means of shutting down machinery in an emergency. In manufacturing, for example, a kill switch (also called a big red button) might be used to shut down machinery if a worker is in danger. In mobile computing, a kill switch can disable a device that has been reported lost or stolen. By activating a kill switch, the network administrator can protect the data on the device from being stolen or altered. In a car or boat, a kill switch can prevent the vehicle from starting unless an associated security mechanism is activated.

Software programs sometimes include encoded kill switches as anti-piracy mechanisms. Microsoft's Vista operating system and related products include a component that some industry experts are calling a virtual kill switch . After installing the software, a user has 30 days to successfully register the product. If the user fails to enter a valid registration key before the deadline passes, the software will operate in what Microsoft is calling "reduced functionality mode:"
The background goes black.
There is no start menu.
There are no desktop icons.
Users are automatically logged out of Web browsers after one hour.

Kill switches are also used for a wide variety of machinery both inside and outside the IT world, including car ignition systems, boat motors, industrial machines and gas pumps. A kill switch for vehicles and machinery is sometimes called a "DEAD MAN'S SWITCH" (my caps) because its purpose is to shut the vehicle or machine down if the operator becomes incapacitated.

Has the island told John that Jacob has become incapacitated? Regardless of how John is going to kill Jacob he will have to do or show something and he wants an audience to witness him doing it. So won't they have to actually see John do something in order to believe John? Or are they so gullible they will just believe John the way they believed our two Others: Because Richard and Ben told them so? What do you think?

[islander]

Very creative thinking. I have a race car with a "kill switch"....the idea is to kill the engine in the event of my inability to control the machine, ie, it's on fire, we're up-side-down in a ditch somewhere, or worse.

I can see the Island thinking Jacob is out of control, and a kill switch would be a way to immobilize him. Very interesting.

[Dude...What?]

Are you saying that you think Jacob is like a computer or a machine, and not human? I dont disagree with you either way because I dont know. just wondering.

[beachblinkette]

Are you saying that you think Jacob is like a computer or a machine, and not human? I dont disagree with you either way because I dont know. just wondering.
IDK either but I have heard this theory spoken of elsewhere AND here on this forum.
I wanted to know the difference between a kill switch and a failsafe device so this is a sort of Popular Mechanics type explanation I'm using as an example (taken loosely to illustrate here).
Referring to remote control vehicles:

Posted by HarleyDan on hpibajatutorials as he answers a question:

Quote:A failsafe (in the context of the Baja (vehicle) is a device that will kill the engine if the radio link is lost or a power failure occurs.


A (remote) kill switch is a device that allows you to kill the engine from your 3-(or more)radio channel radio.

The Baja's built -in failsafe should not be trusted as there are several failures that could occur that can cause the vehicle to run away out of control because their "failsafe" does not kill the engine. It TRIES to move the throttle/brake servo to the brake position.Unquote
The person asking the question answers:

Quote: +1 on that. A good kill switch is a MUST have item. Your only talking about $40 or so, and I know you could not buy a cheaper insurance policy! Unquote.

So I'm thinking that a kill switch is different from a failsafe device and that you need the kill switch as a back-up system. My thought is that if Jacob can be killed will it be by a means that few have considered such as with a kill switch? If so, then Yes, this probably says a lot about the nature of Jacob.

[bunnydixon]

random but your post made me think of wizard of oz again.

[islander]

I'm not sure what a Baja is - it sounds like a remote control car. Per my experience, in auto racing lingo, I hear kill switch used 95% of the time. It is a better description of a physical switch that kills the ignition.

In my mind a failsafe mechanism is something that is built into a system that is triggered automatically if a certain event happens....like a nuclear reactor shutting down automatically if internal temperatures reach dangerously high levels.

As it relates to Jacob, I would think a kill switch is more appropriate since Locke will have to actively do something to kill Jacob.

[islander]

random but your post made me think of wizard of oz again.


Funny...it made me think of Terminator where the machines take over and wouldn't it be nice to have a kill switch? I never thought of Jacob in that way so it's interesting. Perhaps he has become a threat/nusance to the Island?

[beachblinkette]

Funny...it made me think of Terminator where the machines take over and wouldn't it be nice to have a kill switch? I never thought of Jacob in that way so it's interesting. Perhaps he has become a threat/nusance to the Island?
If Jacob is a machine of some kind or an artifact produced by a machine, then the island may know how to kill him and is using Locke as its terminator!! Loved that Islander!! And Bunny, it does have a Wiz of Oz nuance to it, IMO.


This may be way off-base but who knows? I never had thought that Jacob could be killed, because he seemed almost immortal. I believe Locke has returned as the Mythic Hero who has suffered the "double death" and who will be victorious now in doing what he says he's going to do. Either that or this is just a play- a bluff by John-to draw out Ben and Richard to show their hand as in poker,,,sort of?

[Jeremy]

This is all interesting to me, having thought that Jacob already is dead and that's how he has apparently gained these powers to become invisible, only be heard by certain people, move his own cabin, etc.

Perhaps Jacob has feared he's going crazy, so he let Christian take over for the time being. Either that or Christian has been lieing to Locke, and has tricked him into thinking the island is telling Locke to kill Jacob.

[chester]

So Jacob is Hal?

[Workman]

So Jacob is Hal?

I can't let you do that John. *glowing red light*

[beachblinkette]

I can't let you do that John. *glowing red light*

What about Richard wanting Locke to wait until morning
before going to see Jacob? If Jacob is a machine or created artifact, then would Richard need time to "set up" or stage Jacob and his cabin like "giving" him the dialogue and the appearance of powers?

This might be done to try to dissuade Locke from his mission or to try to make him look like a fool in front of the Others? Remember that both Ben and RA said something like "it doesn't work like that" when Locke said he wanted to go right away.

Seems they were both stalling AND in agreement that Locke was going to be "trouble." I don't know what to make of that, do you? So it looked to me like they had something to hide. Time travel, the walking dead, and Smoke Monsters,,,,why not a kind of sentient Hal whose masters only let him out when it serves their purpose?

[New Age Messiah]

Alpert showed Locke the compass and the knife, and Locke chose the knife, so Alpert already "knows" that Locke is eventually going to kill Jacob.

Alpert has been in denial. If Locke kills Jacob something changes that has been the same forever, since Alpert is an immortal Pharaoh, and time does not move on the island.

Notice the Losties appear the same in '77 as they did in '07??? This is because you do not age on the island. Richard and Ben are in cohoots to keep it secret or whatever.

Widmore was "had" by Ben, Ben stole the Black Rock journal form Widmore, that's how Ben knows who the Losties are, descendants of the Black Rock crew, reincarnated or whatever. That's how Widmore knows "who" Desmond is.

Everyone at one point was on the Black Rock, except.... Ben and Dharma and the few soldiers. But maybe even all those were at one time, on the Black Rock, they are all descendants, or reincarnated. No one can find the island except someone who is descendant of Black Rock crew...

Mr. Eko and his brother were probably slaves on the ship.

[mcgarnigle]

like the ideas there messiah, but how and when did ben steal the journal from widmore. We see Widmore purchase the black rock journal in the present, and there has been no scene of ben taking the journal when he awakens charles at home to tell him he's gonna kill penny.

Other than that i like the idea about descendants and such, also you can age on the island b/c widmore and hawking were both a lot younger in '54 than they were in '77 and when widmore left the island.

[DarkPhoenix-24]

hmmm... very interesting. it totally threw me for a loop in my thought process, but I could see this theory being proven true.

[New Age Messiah]

Alpert showed Locke the compass and the knife, and Locke chose the knife, so Alpert already "knows" that Locke is eventually going to kill Jacob.

Alpert has been in denial. If Locke kills Jacob something changes that has been the same forever, since Alpert is an immortal Pharaoh, and time does not move on the island.

Notice the Losties appear the same in '77 as they did in '07??? This is because you do not age on the island. Richard and Ben are in cohoots to keep it secret or whatever.

Widmore was "had" by Ben, Ben stole the Black Rock journal form Widmore, that's how Ben knows who the Losties are, descendants of the Black Rock crew, reincarnated or whatever. That's how Widmore knows "who" Desmond is.

Everyone at one point was on the Black Rock, except.... Ben and Dharma and the few soldiers. But maybe even all those were at one time, on the Black Rock, they are all descendants, or reincarnated. No one can find the island except someone who is descendant of Black Rock crew...

Mr. Eko and his brother were probably slaves on the ship.No one even responded to this theory, they must have thought it was way out there, huh. So clever aren't they. They probably made fun of it, tee hee.

But LOOK, on the horizon, it's the Black Rock, here they come AGAIN.

[bunnydixon]

you've mentioned here they come again a few times - when is this said?

[SpaceBar]

Well, they kinda said it on the beach. It was like, 'they're coming, it always ends the same.' kinda thing.

For some reason, I laugh my head off when I see 'Richard Alpert' and 'Immortal Pharaoh' in the same sentence.

Personally I don't think the Black Rock has any huge part in the story, except:

The crew were shipwrecked on the island and became 'part of the game'.

I think the point of the ship is there to show us

a) How long the game's been going on for.

b) So Widmore can buy the log, telling us he wants to get all info he can about the island.

Also it's pretty handy with the dynamite supplies.

[bunnydixon]

GRAY-HAIRED MAN: Morning.

BLOND MAN: Mornin'.

GRAY-HAIRED MAN: Mind if I join you?

BLOND MAN: [Shaking his head] Please. Want some fish?

GRAY-HAIRED MAN: Thank you. I just ate.

[The gray-haired man sits down not far away.]

BLOND MAN: I take it you're here 'cause of the ship.

GRAY-HAIRED MAN: I am. How did they find the Island?

BLOND MAN: You'll have to ask 'em when they get here.

GRAY-HAIRED MAN: I don't have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong, aren't you?

BLOND MAN: You are wrong.

GRAY-HAIRED MAN: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.

BLOND MAN: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

[The gray-haired man stares at his compatriot.]

GRAY-HAIRED MAN: Do you have any idea how badly I wanna kill you?

not the same as here they come again. i think thats insinuates something quite different than what was actually said and taken in the context of the conversation, it's not that similar really. in the actual conversation 'they' could refer simply to outsiders. but NAM is using 'here they come again' as 'here come the losties again on the black rock' as if it is some time loop and he is using that sentence to reinforce his theory when thats not what was said at all.

[losttime]

Alpert showed Locke the compass and the knife, and Locke chose the knife, so Alpert already "knows" that Locke is eventually going to kill Jacob.

Alpert has been in denial. If Locke kills Jacob something changes that has been the same forever, since Alpert is an immortal Pharaoh, and time does not move on the island.

Notice the Losties appear the same in '77 as they did in '07??? This is because you do not age on the island. Richard and Ben are in cohoots to keep it secret or whatever.

Widmore was "had" by Ben, Ben stole the Black Rock journal form Widmore, that's how Ben knows who the Losties are, descendants of the Black Rock crew, reincarnated or whatever. That's how Widmore knows "who" Desmond is.

Everyone at one point was on the Black Rock, except.... Ben and Dharma and the few soldiers. But maybe even all those were at one time, on the Black Rock, they are all descendants, or reincarnated. No one can find the island except someone who is descendant of Black Rock crew...

Mr. Eko and his brother were probably slaves on the ship.

No one ages on the Island? Explain Ethan going from boy to adult and Ben as well.

[Brother Desmond]

Alpert showed Locke the compass and the knife, and Locke chose the knife, so Alpert already "knows" that Locke is eventually going to kill Jacob.

That doesn't show Richard knows for sure that Locke will kill Jacob. It is your opinion. You may be right, but Richard's annoyance at young Locke's selection of the knife doesn't definitively mean Richard knows Locke will grow to kill Jacob.

Adding to this, if Richard knew that Locke wanted to kill Jacob, why would he lead John to Jacob?

Alpert has been in denial. If Locke kills Jacob something changes that has been the same forever, since Alpert is an immortal Pharaoh, and time does not move on the island.

Time most certaintly does move on the island. Evidenced by the fact that Alex, Ethan, Ben age while living on the island.

Notice the Losties appear the same in '77 as they did in '07??? This is because you do not age on the island. Richard and Ben are in cohoots to keep it secret or whatever.

See above about aging on the island. And the 2007 Losties appear the same age in 1977 because their present selves traveled to the past. They didn't travel into their 1977 self's. If I traveled to 1999 right now, I wouldn't look as I did in 1999, because my 2009 self is the one time traveling.

Widmore was "had" by Ben, Ben stole the Black Rock journal form Widmore, that's how Ben knows who the Losties are, descendants of the Black Rock crew, reincarnated or whatever. That's how Widmore knows "who" Desmond is.

There is no evidence to suggest Ben stole the journal from Widmore. According to the auctioneer, the black rock journal was founded aboard a pirate's ship and was then obtained by the Hanso family.

Also, we know Ben obtained the identities of flight 815 from Mikhail in the Flame station. Before Desmond turned the fail-safe key the Flame had the capability of communication with the outside world. Mikhail was able to use this capability to put together dossiers on the 815 passengers.

Everyone at one point was on the Black Rock, except.... Ben and Dharma and the few soldiers. But maybe even all those were at one time, on the Black Rock, they are all descendants, or reincarnated. No one can find the island except someone who is descendant of Black Rock crew...

Mr. Eko and his brother were probably slaves on the ship.

Again, these are your opinions. They may turn out to be right, but they are not facts, and shouldn't be treated as such.

[New Age Messiah]

you've mentioned here they come again a few times - when is this said?The "here they come again" is a summary.

They come they fight they destroy. It always ends the same.

My interpretation is that Jacob and MiB have had this conversation before, this has happened before, hence, here they come again, here we go again.

I want to kill you. You keep bringing those damn mortals here.

Main point is, why I posted this, is because I said Losties were Black Rockers or their descendants, and that scene was amazing.

My kids are fans, they came over to watch the finale, I told them before it started that I thought everyone was Black Rockers, and when that scene played, they were like OMG how did you know that??? So it's not perfectly proven that the Losties are Black Rockers, but almost.
It's hard to say,

[New Age Messiah]

Adding to this, if Richard knew that Locke wanted to kill Jacob, why would he lead John to Jacob?He has to, it's the rules.Time most certaintly does move on the island. Evidenced by the fact that Alex, Ethan, Ben age while living on the island.That was a mistake I made, I got thrown for a loop for about one day, due to everyone being the same age no matter what year it was. There is no evidence to suggest Ben stole the journal from Widmore. According to the auctioneer, the black rock journal was founded aboard a pirate's ship and was then obtained by the Hanso family.I agree there is no evidence, but Ben stole something precious from Widmore, and I think it's the journal.Also, we know Ben obtained the identities of flight 815 from Mikhail in the Flame station. Before Desmond turned the fail-safe key the Flame had the capability of communication with the outside world. Mikhail was able to use this capability to put together dossiers on the 815 passengers.I think the identies have always been known, like Alpert seeing Locke as a child, the island leaders know who is under the Black Rock Curse. :)Again, these are your opinions. They may turn out to be right, but they are not facts, and shouldn't be treated as such.Yeah, the only reason I posted this was to show that I theorized before the finale that everyone was on the Black Rock at one point, and then opening scene was the Black Rock coming to an empty island. And the conversation between MiB and Jacob certainly seemed to indicate that this was a recurring thing. And it's safe to assume the same people involved doing the same things, over and over.

I'm the only one that had this theory. I was doing a told you so thing, because everyone was mocking me. :)

[bunnydixon]

The "here they come again" is a summary.

They come they fight they destroy. It always ends the same.

My interpretation is that Jacob and MiB have had this conversation before, this has happened before, hence, here they come again, here we go again.

I want to kill you. You keep bringing those damn mortals here.

Main point is, why I posted this, is because I said Losties were Black Rockers or their descendants, and that scene was amazing.

My kids are fans, they came over to watch the finale, I told them before it started that I thought everyone was Black Rockers, and when that scene played, they were like OMG how did you know that??? So it's not perfectly proven that the Losties are Black Rockers, but almost.
It's hard to say,


i dont think you can change the script to summarise and basically adapt it to fit with your theory. i think the writers are very specific with how they structure the lines.