Some evidence Jacob exists

[losttime]

There have been many threads about the possible non-existence of Jacob. Lets look at the facts and evidence of both.
So far I can really think of one reason that Jacob doesnt exist is because no one has really seen him or talked to him other than Ben claiming he has. That having been said. We have heard him say "Help Me" to Locke which ben confirmed before he shot Locke. We have seen an image of Jacob when the camera scanned past the rocking chair after pushing Ben against the wall. The Cabin shook and things mysteriously got thrown across the room after Locke shined the light in the Cabin. The Others constantly refer to a list that Jacob had created. The Cabin appears out of no where and can move its location in the blink of an eye, ex was with Hurley. Some one informed the Others to build a runway and the credit for that was given to Jacob, if I am not mistaking.
So now if Jacob truly doesn't exist, why would Ben, Richard, Widmore, and any other Leader of the past refer to Jacob and not take the credit themselves for what they know about the Island. I think what Locke is saying is that why is Jacob kept a mystery and why the inhabitants of the Island cant meet or talk to him directly. What I like to know is why Locke cannot find Jacob if he really is the Leader. Maybe Jacob knows what Locke is there to do and is not allowing Locke to find him. I dont know. Any thoughts on any of this? I love to know what you think on the existence of Jacob and evidence of why you say either way

[Here'sLOCKEing at you,Kid]

good post, LostTime.
I never doubted Jacob existed, myself.
But I've often wondered why everyone thinks Jacob has to BE somone already existing... why can't Jacob just be Jacob?... (not that he CAN'T be John or someone in a diff dimension/time).
I am a little confused as to the last part of your post, though...Did I forget something? I thought John DOES know where Jacob is and that's where he's headed to to "kill him". Didn't he say the Island told him?
At any rate, I think Ben was correct when he said, "That's not the way it works." I don't think Ben was covering up something like the fact that there really is no Jacob...

[Simon Blackrock]

maybe it is not how it works because jacob is dead already and is a spirit like christian.
it is wierd because John has always run on blind faith, and now he is questioning the blind faith of others.

[losttime]

good post, LostTime.
I never doubted Jacob existed, myself.
But I've often wondered why everyone thinks Jacob has to BE somone already existing... why can't Jacob just be Jacob?... (not that he CAN'T be John or someone in a diff dimension/time).
I am a little confused as to the last part of your post, though...Did I forget something? I thought John DOES know where Jacob is and that's where he's headed to to "kill him". Didn't he say the Island told him?
At any rate, I think Ben was correct when he said, "That's not the way it works." I don't think Ben was covering up something like the fact that there really is no Jacob...

he doesnt know where Jacob is he asked Richard to take him to see Jacob. With regard to whether Jacob is John, in my thread i was merely posting that what we saw might have just been a future glimpse as John taking over the role of Jacob. not that they are one in the same necessarily.

[losttime]

maybe it is not how it works because jacob is dead already and is a spirit like christian.
it is wierd because John has always run on blind faith, and now he is questioning the blind faith of others.

But that is just speculation on Jacob. My thread is discussing whether he actually exists. Some have commented on other threads that Jacob may be just a form of control the Other Leaders are using on the rest of the people in their group.

[Here'sLOCKEing at you,Kid]

he doesnt know where Jacob is he asked Richard to take him to see Jacob. With regard to whether Jacob is John, in my thread i was merely posting that what we saw might have just been a future glimpse as John taking over the role of Jacob. not that they are one in the same necessarily.

Got it. Thanks.:)

[when am i?]

I think Jacob may be a poltergeist!
I mean he really shook up that cabin in classic poltergeist style when Locke turned the flashlight on.

[abcd1234]

its possible richard and ben came up with the idea of jacob after being visited by locke in 1954. he said "jacob sent me" maybe the others thought, well this guy apeared and then vanished, he must be the savior or whatnot, never really knowing he didnt know anything. so, now the others are asking richard "who is this jacob?" then flash forward to mid 1980's where richard and ben think its best to get rid of widmore. they use this idea of jacob to get support from the others to oust their leader (charles).

Also, we dont know that locke heard jacob. he could have heard the island. remember the island makes people see all sorts of weird things, and ecko saw his brother etc. hurley sees people, michael saw christian. the whole series, these phenomenon have been referred to as actions of the island, not jacob. tom friendly told michael the island wouldnt let him die, then christian said "you can go now" before the freightor blew up. so, chrisitan is with the island.

also supporting this idea is that when everything went crazy with locke and ben in the cabin, it was all illusion. the lamp fell and set the cabin on fire, and then was back on the table as if none of it happened.

[abcd1234]

oh, and only ben talks to jacob, and jacobs "list" is of the people ben knew were in the 1970's and had to come back. its totally feasible he had those old pictures and names, and made the list himself

[5starboss]

I think Jacob is real. He's mysterious and secret, but totally exists. I guess there's a chance the leaders of the Other's are putting on a show of smoke and mirrors, but that doesn't seem to be the case this time ( even though they've done it before: Tom Friendly and the fake beard...)

I get the feeling like the Others we've seen are just one small group we've seen on the outside. I mean they're camp isn't permanent living, yet we've not seen them antwhere else.

[Gettingafixonlost]

its possible richard and ben came up with the idea of jacob after being visited by locke in 1954. he said "jacob sent me" maybe the others thought, well this guy apeared and then vanished, he must be the savior or whatnot, never really knowing he didnt know anything. so, now the others are asking richard "who is this jacob?" then flash forward to mid 1980's where richard and ben think its best to get rid of widmore. they use this idea of jacob to get support from the others to oust their leader (charles).

Also, we dont know that locke heard jacob. he could have heard the island. remember the island makes people see all sorts of weird things, and ecko saw his brother etc. hurley sees people, michael saw christian. the whole series, these phenomenon have been referred to as actions of the island, not jacob. tom friendly told michael the island wouldnt let him die, then christian said "you can go now" before the freightor blew up. so, chrisitan is with the island.

also supporting this idea is that when everything went crazy with locke and ben in the cabin, it was all illusion. the lamp fell and set the cabin on fire, and then was back on the table as if none of it happened.

Wow!! Your idea of how Jacob came to be is very interesting, I never thought of that one, but after John sent Richard to tell time-traveling John to say he had to bring them all back and he had to die to do it makes your theory extremely plausible. Just not sure how it would fit in with the "moving cabin". I'm still thinking Jacob is Jack or John because in season three when Locke hears Jacob say "help me" and a glimpse of him is shown he looks like Jack and yet he looks like John too. I swear I have not worked my brain so hard since I took my first philosophy class.
Oh ya..I don't remember the episode that Ben and Richard thought it best to get rid of widmore, was that the one where Ben was pushing Alex on the swing, if so I thought it was Ben's idea, didn't know that it was Richard's too. One other thing too, I don't believe anything Ben says, and I am still trying to figure out his agenda.:)

[abcd1234]

I agree 5 star that these others are not the hard core others - the ones at the temple. they wouldnt have been so easily swooned by lockes little speech.

I totally agree weird things happen, I just dont know how seperate jacob is from the island. does jacob heal peoples cancer, does the island, does jacob control the island....? is jacob one manifestation of the island?

[iggyjeckel]

I'm gonna go with Jacob is Richards conjoined twin brother like in total recall lol

Btw off topic but was there anything interesting about the boat in the bottle Richard was making in last weeks episode?

[iggyjeckel]

I'm gonna go with Jacob is Richards conjoined twin brother like in total recall lol

Btw off topic but was there anything interesting about the boat in the bottle Richard was making in last weeks episode?

[Dr Violence]

Cool idea but I do know Jacob is in the finale and is someone we've not seen before...

[2cansam]

its possible richard and ben came up with the idea of jacob after being visited by locke in 1954. he said "jacob sent me" maybe the others thought, well this guy apeared and then vanished, he must be the savior or whatnot, never really knowing he didnt know anything. so, now the others are asking richard "who is this jacob?" then flash forward to mid 1980's where richard and ben think its best to get rid of widmore. they use this idea of jacob to get support from the others to oust their leader (charles).

Also, we dont know that locke heard jacob. he could have heard the island. remember the island makes people see all sorts of weird things, and ecko saw his brother etc. hurley sees people, michael saw christian. the whole series, these phenomenon have been referred to as actions of the island, not jacob. tom friendly told michael the island wouldnt let him die, then christian said "you can go now" before the freightor blew up. so, chrisitan is with the island.

also supporting this idea is that when everything went crazy with locke and ben in the cabin, it was all illusion. the lamp fell and set the cabin on fire, and then was back on the table as if none of it happened.


Or could it be the only reason Richard thinks John was special and the leader of the others is because John Lock declared himself the leader back in 50s and then vanished. This made Richard think there was something special about John , but after seeing all the events laid out in place especially after the whole John telling Richard to take the bullet out of his leg part and understanding the events that made it look as if John was special. Richard has come to realize John is not so special and is now turned against him as you heard him say to Ben that John was beginning to be a problem

[R.I.P.Charlie]

Jacob is Dave

[abcd1234]

which dave?

[abcd1234]

Im sure there will be a jacob, but I also feel confident that ben claims to speak to him and perhaps didnt

[losttime]

its possible richard and ben came up with the idea of jacob after being visited by locke in 1954. he said "jacob sent me" maybe the others thought, well this guy apeared and then vanished, he must be the savior or whatnot, never really knowing he didnt know anything. so, now the others are asking richard "who is this jacob?" then flash forward to mid 1980's where richard and ben think its best to get rid of widmore. they use this idea of jacob to get support from the others to oust their leader (charles).

Also, we dont know that locke heard jacob. he could have heard the island. remember the island makes people see all sorts of weird things, and ecko saw his brother etc. hurley sees people, michael saw christian. the whole series, these phenomenon have been referred to as actions of the island, not jacob. tom friendly told michael the island wouldnt let him die, then christian said "you can go now" before the freightor blew up. so, chrisitan is with the island.

also supporting this idea is that when everything went crazy with locke and ben in the cabin, it was all illusion. the lamp fell and set the cabin on fire, and then was back on the table as if none of it happened.

If they came up with it themselves, why did Ben say " I hope you are happy now Jacob" right before he turned the Donkey Wheel? If its a made up person that only Ben and Richard know about why would he even have to say that since no one else was with him?

[5starboss]

^ good point.

[Panda]

If they came up with it themselves, why did Ben say " I hope you are happy now Jacob" right before he turned the Donkey Wheel? If its a made up person that only Ben and Richard know about why would he even have to say that since no one else was with him?

Maybe Ben didn't come up with it
Maybe Richard came up with it....even before 54.....
And in 54 he uses the appearance of Locke in front of "his people" as an extra prove for his "Jacob invention".
The story lives on....
Ben picks up the story when he joins the others....but since he was at the DI for a while....he probably understands that the appearing and disappearing of people on the Island ....that there is some science behind it that could explain those things.
He probably never got any insight in the future thanks to communication with the so called Jacob...but thanks to the info left behind by the DI and the equipment to stay in touch with the "Off Island world" .
Widmore and Ellie probably also understand at a certain moment that those people in 54 had nothing to do with a so called Jacob..but that there is some science from the future involved?
So RIchard may be a time traveler from the future, who uses and abuses his own knowledge of science about time travel, to keep on playing people that got involved in the early stages of time travel on the Island? To remain himself alive...on Island....as in his future there is nothing left....or he is trying to change things in his own "home time"...through playing and resetting people from the past on and off Island....
As long as we see Richard on the Island....we may say that he failed to change his future....or he failed in whatever he wanted to reach or to change in his own "home time"?

Just guessing of course...