Where exactly does the idea that Locke is the leader of the others originate ?

[2cansam]

Theroy from Veralynn , but I thought of something and editied a little

Richard only gave Locke the compass because Locke told him to, only took out the bullet because Locke told him to, and visited child Locke because Locke told him to.

In this vein, it makes sense that Locke is only presumed by Richard and Ben to be the next leader of the others, they were only "waiting" for Locke, because in the 50's Locke told Richard that he was their leader.

Where exactly does the idea that Locke is the leader of the others originate? Linearly, it seems to originate from Locke, himself. He is their leader because he made himself their leader.

Richard has all of his memories of previous times meeting Locke. So in a higher order John is his leader whom in return is Jacob. Lock is Jacob. That's why Richard wanted to pull him aside before he made his big speech to all the people about going to find Jacob. Richard wanted to tell John that after he vanished before his eyes they thought up the idea to create a fake leader " Jacob" and use him until John came back. This would allow for Widmore and Eli to believe in Jacob aswell as they witnessed the appearance and disappearance of Lock and the others aswell. So fast forward . The reason Richard and Ben cant just come out and say to John after seeing him on the island as soon as they land is because they know he has to fulfill certain quest before he can be told he is Jacob. So when Ben takes Lock to the cabin he cant just come out and say " John you are Jacob " because mabey this is only something Richard , Charles and Eli know. Or Ben dose know , but for the sake of the island can not let john know his true destiny until he has fufilled his purpose.

[New Age Messiah]

Richard has all of his memories of previous times meeting Locke. So in a higher order John is his leader whom in return is Jacob. Lock is Jacob.Eveyone on the island is descendant or reincarnated Black Rock passengers and crew, except Richard.

Richard toys with them, his ship in a bottle is a metaphor. He has permission from mother nature, Ma'at, per Egyptian nomenclature, but he has to follow rules.

Boys will be boys, he doesn't like the rules right now. If he follows the rules, Locke kills Jacob and his fun is over.

Ben will tempt Richard to break the rules, surely you will not die...

Ben is Satan, metaphorically. Right now Locke is Moses and Alpert is the Pharaoh, metaphorically.

[when am i?]

But Ben had already told Locke that he is the leader now just before he goes inside the cabin looking for Jacob.
Christian then tells him he is talking as a representative of Jacob and affirms that Locke was chosen.
All this had happened before the flashes took Locke back to 1954.
So Locke was told that he is the leader before he himself went back in time.
Therefore linearly it can't originally be Locke's own idea.

[Simon Blackrock]

wasnt it ben who told him?

[when am i?]

But Ben had already told Locke that he is the leader now .

Yes I did say that above.

[rock-lobster]

i don't think Christian would have the relationship he does with Locke if he wasn't specifically the bees knees. on top of that, the fact that locke was resurrected, cured of paralysis, and saved from death multiple times by the merry island is strong evidence to support that he actually is supposed to be their leader.

[smthng2dowthlost]

But Ben had already told Locke that he is the leader now just before he goes inside the cabin looking for Jacob.
Christian then tells him he is talking as a representative of Jacob and affirms that Locke was chosen.
All this had happened before the flashes took Locke back to 1954.
So Locke was told that he is the leader before he himself went back in time.
Therefore linearly it can't originally be Locke's own idea.

Before they flashed back but they always were in 1954 if you look at it linear the effects of their visit were always in play even before we saw any time travel. It's the conversation between hurley and miles the conversation happened but for them it's happening right now to outside people it always happened. If that made sense. It could still be lockes creation even if he first heard it from ben and richard becasuse richard heard in 54 even if locke hadn't flashed back to tell him yet at some point he will so it could still go either way. My vote is that he was chosen or else I can't really explain the drawing of the smoke monster.

[when am i?]

Those things happened but not yet for Locke,anyway it doesn't make sense it is just time-travel fiction.

[smthng2dowthlost]

Those things happened but not yet for Locke,anyway it doesn't make sense it is just time-travel fiction.

It kinda does if you look at it from a complete outside perspective. IN 54 what happened then in 1977 what happened in 2004 and 2007 what happened. WHH (for now at least). IN 54 a man named locke appeared out of nowhere and told richard he was from the future and the leader from then on richard thought locke might be the leader even when he meets locke in 2004 and doesn't rembmer richard but richard remebers him so he sets him up to be the leader and then he disapears off that log and ends up in 54 were he tells richard he from the future and the leader. The first seed of locke being a leader as far as I can tell is locke in 54.

[when am i?]

But where did Locke get that idea from before he told Richard in 1954?
He got it from the island and Ben before this time-travel loop started.
The loop started in 2004.

[smthng2dowthlost]

But where did Locke get that idea from before he told Richard in 1954?
He got it from the island and Ben before this time-travel loop started.
The loop started in 2004.

The island told locke he was special not that he was the leader of the others. that idea came from richard and ben (ben in season two as henry gale I believe) but they first got the idea in 1954. So where the loop started is still up for interpretation.and i'm taking ben's knowledge of how special john locke is as info passsed to him by richard who's the only one who meet john locke before the crash the first crash. BUt who told richard in the first place it was john locke in 1954 your thinking from lockes percpective what about richards, until 1954 the name john locke was meaningless to him. All the 1954 knowledge richard had was why he helped locke in season 3. I don't think anybody has definitive proof either way I'm just saying could totally go either way

[DharmaRecruit44]

Remember that Charles Widmore, separately and without Ben's knowledge/consultation also knows John Locke is the leader. He did get John to the Island in the first place.

[smthng2dowthlost]

Remember that Charles Widmore, separately and without Ben's knowledge/consultation also knows John Locke is the leader. He did get John to the Island in the first place.

Was this after 1954? I mean widmore was standing right there about to shoot locke right before locked talked to richard maybe when locke disapeared richard was like damn that guy said he was our leader from the future and anyone within earshot heard that(I know this is very simplified example) But widmore was there that day and for more than 40 years a lot of them as a leader i'm sure him and richard had at least one conversation about this special person who disapeared in front of them. My point being widmore's knowledge of locke seems to stem from the same thing as richards knowledge of locke. If widmore serves the island like he says or even just wants to find it the best way would be to find john locke because you know when he is born and that at somepoint he ends up on the island if you believed he is from the future, when someone disappears I think I would take them at their word.

[mhzmike]

You're exactly right, Jack !!!

[jlazarus]

Was this after 1954? I mean widmore was standing right there about to shoot locke right before locked talked to richard maybe when locke disapeared richard was like damn that guy said he was our leader from the future and anyone within earshot heard that(I know this is very simplified example) But widmore was there that day and for more than 40 years a lot of them as a leader i'm sure him and richard had at least one conversation about this special person who disapeared in front of them. My point being widmore's knowledge of locke seems to stem from the same thing as richards knowledge of locke. If widmore serves the island like he says or even just wants to find it the best way would be to find john locke because you know when he is born and that at somepoint he ends up on the island if you believed he is from the future, when someone disappears I think I would take them at their word.
Strangely enough, this makes quite a bit of sense!

[smthng2dowthlost]

What do you mean strangely enough? I'm just kidding around:D

[islander]

Was this after 1954? I mean widmore was standing right there about to shoot locke right before locked talked to richard maybe when locke disapeared richard was like damn that guy said he was our leader from the future and anyone within earshot heard that(I know this is very simplified example) But widmore was there that day and for more than 40 years a lot of them as a leader i'm sure him and richard had at least one conversation about this special person who disapeared in front of them. My point being widmore's knowledge of locke seems to stem from the same thing as richards knowledge of locke. If widmore serves the island like he says or even just wants to find it the best way would be to find john locke because you know when he is born and that at somepoint he ends up on the island if you believed he is from the future, when someone disappears I think I would take them at their word.

And who/what controlled the flash that "transported" Locke to 1954?

[jlazarus]

What do you mean strangely enough? I'm just kidding around:D

Ha! I think it was just that stream of consciousness type post :) And I loved this line:



"I mean widmore was standing right there about to shoot locke right before locked talked to richard maybe when locke disapeared richard was like damn that guy said he was our leader from the future"

Love it!

[smthng2dowthlost]

And who/what controlled the flash that "transported" Locke to 1954?

we can take wild guesses all day but we wouldn't find out until TPTB told us.

You know what Screw it I got time:

The island
Jacob
christian
the wheel

[islander]

we can take wild guesses all day but we wouldn't find out until TPTB told us.

You know what Screw it I got time:

The island
Jacob
christian
the wheel

I'm going with the Island.

[smthng2dowthlost]

Probably the best guess anyone could have but for all we know it was because christian was thinking about scotch:D

MAybe the island sent john locke back to tell richard he was the leader as a way for the island to infiltrate jacob's organization and kill him. I say the island doesn't like jacob because that's the only reason I can think of as to why john would suddenly want to kill jacob.

[LissaMarie]

Ooh I like that, smthng! I've been trying to decide if I think Jacob and the island are allies or adversaries. I hadn't ever considered that idea before! Very interesting thought!

[2cansam]

Probably the best guess anyone could have but for all we know it was because christian was thinking about scotch:D

MAybe the island sent john locke back to tell richard he was the leader as a way for the island to infiltrate jacob's organization and kill him. I say the island doesn't like jacob because that's the only reason I can think of as to why john would suddenly want to kill jacob.

That what i was thinking aswell...That why Richard seemed to be pissed at John cause he relized that everything that had happend up until then was just a plot to take over the island...Talk about deep undercover...So deep John didnt even know until he died.

[when am i?]

The island told locke he was special not that he was the leader of the others. that idea came from richard and ben (ben in season two as henry gale I believe) but they first got the idea in 1954. So where the loop started is still up for interpretation.and i'm taking ben's knowledge of how special john locke is as info passsed to him by richard who's the only one who meet john locke before the crash the first crash. BUt who told richard in the first place it was john locke in 1954 your thinking from lockes percpective what about richards, until 1954 the name john locke was meaningless to him. All the 1954 knowledge richard had was why he helped locke in season 3. I don't think anybody has definitive proof either way I'm just saying could totally go either way

Disagree dude....
If Locke wasn't born in 1956,then he would never ever have been able to go back to 1954 in the first place.So the idea was never from the past and Richard was not convinced in 1954 about anything Locke told him!
The only reason Locke(in 1954) believed he was their future leader is cos he had already become so in 2004/5.He took that knowledge back with him.

So the idea was definitely from Richard or Ben,I don't ever remember the island itself telling him he was special.

Richard told Locke he was special when he was a kid but he failed the test at that time.
Richard then told him again in season 3 he was special cos when word got out that the island healed him and enabled him to walk again,everyone was excited.
Locke's mother also told him he was special,how did she know?

When Richard saw Locke in 1954 he didn't even believe him to be their future leader nor did he take him seriously or help him.

[islander]

Disagree dude....
If Locke wasn't born in 1956,then he would never ever have been able to go back to 1954 in the first place.So the idea was never from the past and Richard was not convinced in 1954 about anything Locke told him!
The only reason Locke(in 1954) believed he was their future leader is cos he had already become so in 2004/5.He took that knowledge back with him.

So the idea was definitely from Richard or Ben,I don't ever remember the island itself telling him he was special.

Richard told Locke he was special when he was a kid but he failed the test at that time.
Richard then told him again in season 3 he was special cos when word got out that the island healed him and enabled him to walk again,everyone was excited.
Locke's mother also told him he was special,how did she know?

When Richard saw Locke in 1954 he didn't even believe him to be their future leader nor did he take him seriously or help him.

Richard had never heard of Locke until 1954, but once he vanished, Richard kept tabs on Locke and at some point Abbadon suggests the walkabout that resulted in Locke's presence on 815. The Island controlled the flashes so the Island introduced Locke to Richard, and more proof that Widmore was working for the Island - he has Abbadon tell Locke about the walkabout so Locke would end up on the Island.

The Island loves Locke (for now) - they seemed to connect immediately.

[when am i?]

Yes Richard did keep tabs,that is why he visited him when he was a kid just in case he was telling him the truth in 1954.
You are also right on about everything else you said.

[Panda]

Richard had never heard of Locke until 1954, but once he vanished, Richard kept tabs on Locke and at some point Abbadon suggests the walkabout that resulted in Locke's presence on 815. The Island controlled the flashes so the Island introduced Locke to Richard, and more proof that Widmore was working for the Island - he has Abbadon tell Locke about the walkabout so Locke would end up on the Island.

The Island loves Locke (for now) - they seemed to connect immediately.

If the Island controles the flashes, what exactly is the Island.
Maybe it is a huge futuristic time travel device...that is learning about how it was created...by human beings?
And so picks up people from the past to know its own origin.
A bit like in "AI"

Don't take it to serious....just one of my random rambling again.

[smthng2dowthlost]

Disagree dude....
If Locke wasn't born in 1956,then he would never ever have been able to go back to 1954 in the first place.So the idea was never from the past and Richard was not convinced in 1954 about anything Locke told him!
The only reason Locke(in 1954) believed he was their future leader is cos he had already become so in 2004/5.He took that knowledge back with him.

So the idea was definitely from Richard or Ben,I don't ever remember the island itself telling him he was special.

Richard told Locke he was special when he was a kid but he failed the test at that time.
Richard then told him again in season 3 he was special cos when word got out that the island healed him and enabled him to walk again,everyone was excited.
Locke's mother also told him he was special,how did she know?

When Richard saw Locke in 1954 he didn't even believe him to be their future leader nor did he take him seriously or help him.

THe island told him he was special by the smoke monster not ripping him in half in that one episode I forgot the name where locke's like I looked into the island and what I saw was beautiful and he was paralyzed but can walk now . And we don't know if he failed that test or just didn't give richard the answer he wanted. John is a hunter you know the knife makes sense.
Mothers tend to tell son that they are special.

1954 always had locke saying jacob sent me I'm your leader to richard anything after that anything related to the issue would be because of that conversation. It didn't matter when he went back just that he did.
richard didn't believe him until he disapeared we don't have an immediate reaction from richard but the guy who said he was from the future and the leader of this secret group disappeared it's at least worth remembering what he said he's at least magical you know he vanished.
ONe thing is I think your thinking too percpectively yes locke got the idea first from ben but he got the idea from richard who got the info from locke in 54 who got it from richard and ben but . in 2004 season 2 and three ben and richard tell locke he is special because lockes actions in 1954 have already taken place because they are in 2004 fifty years later. From on outside percpective watching the timeline the idea ( i hate saying this it's like the compass) "Popped into existence" with locke in 1954.