So who was the guy with Jacob ?

[2cansam]

It cant be Hanso if his ship hasnt landed yet . So who is he ? OMG as soon as one question is answerd another takes its place

[littleredman]

It cant be Hanso if his ship hasnt landed yet . So who is he ? OMG as soon as one question is answerd another takes its place

Haha, I love this. You see Jacob, a character who has been shrouded in mystery since the beginning, for the first time and already you're asking who the guy with him was!

[alicat]

It cant be Hanso if his ship hasnt landed yet . So who is he ? OMG as soon as one question is answerd another takes its place

I know there is a huge scientific aspect to this show, but it also has religious themes all over the place. There are always two, we were just introduced to Jacob's opposite. The battle of good versus evil. Everyone has been listening to Jacob, my question is does he represent the good or the evil?

[linuxit]

The other guy is smokie!

[hyperchord24]

Maybe it's Richard. He told Locke that Jacob made him ageless. I don't know. What was all that talk about a timeloop? Does anyone have a transcript?

[JohnQ]

Jacob seems to be a nice guy! LOL

[2cansam]

Yeh I think the other guy is smokie

[JohnQ]

Jacob and Smokie chillin' at the beach at the end of a time loop!

[2cansam]

Well after the cabin burning I guess its well to say Jacob and smokie arent friends lol..

[notsolost42]

Two parts of the same whole....good and evil.....

[TotallyLOST]

Ok, so Jacob is totally a god, right. He's visiting everyone that was on the flight and he's touching them. Like he's marking them. I think Richard is the other guy. This is awesome!!!

[linuxit]

Richard was on the Black Rock.

[2cansam]

Richard was on the Black Rock.

Correct ! Cause Jacob wanted the ship to come to the Island. He has no problem with it as he thinks no matter who it is they will be of good heart. The other guy told him he was wrong. Richard come on the Black Rock thats why we see him with the compus and building the ship in the bottle. Mabey Hanso was bad and all the people of the Black Rock died cause they where tricked by the ? guy...but Jacob saved Richard as he was good hearted...Thats why richard is recruting people for Jacob...people of good faith I guess

[2cansam]

some loop hole

[stockman_12]

Is it possible that the man we see with Jacob in the beginning has taken the form of John Locke as a way to destroy the "good" of the island which is Jacob and Ben is not seen by Jacob because essentially he is evil.

[3d-aholic]

Is it possible that the man we see with Jacob in the beginning has taken the form of John Locke as a way to destroy the "good" of the island which is Jacob and Ben is not seen by Jacob because essentially he is evil.

Correct...that is how I understood it.

[C. Frits]

I think the other guy is the other part of Jacob and he is the one that says HELP ME in the cabin in season three. He also i believe is smokie which would explain why smoke surrounds the cabin. And there is a lot more to learn about Richard.

[Professor Faulken]

i think its obvious that the guy with jacob in the beginning is the guy to uses a "loophole" to use lockes body to convince ben to kill jacob becuase he cant, after all smokie did resurrect ben after he was shot.

[King_Nate]

in the bible who was the brother of jacob?

[hunter8768]

Ok, so Jacob is totally a god, right. He's visiting everyone that was on the flight and he's touching them. Like he's marking them. I think Richard is the other guy. This is awesome!!!
Nope. The guy visiting the O6 was not Jacob. He was Jacob's island buddy. He somehow got off of the island and visited all of those people, the O6, and briefly touched their lives.

We see that he can take any form he wants because he takes Jacob's form, then Locke's. The real Jacob has never left the island.

The guy that has Ben kill Jacob is Jacob's island buddy from the beginning of the show.

[2cansam]

So when Bram Iilana went to the cabin and seen the ash had been moved aside Im guessing the person they expected to be there had been removed...The picture she found led them to the statue so she is on Jacobs side...so why where they freaked out to see the ash cleared if they are on Jacobs side..They acted as if what ever was in that cabin was bad

[conundrum]

If Jacob has somehow orchestrated the O6 return and the bomb, then the events that are set into motion to kill Jacob are erased . . . yes . . . no? Is this how Jacob outsmarts his evil island buddy?

[Miss Alabamy]

Nope. The guy visiting the O6 was not Jacob. He was Jacob's island buddy. He somehow got off of the island and visited all of those people, the O6, and briefly touched their lives.

We see that he can take any form he wants because he takes Jacob's form, then Locke's. The real Jacob has never left the island.

The guy that has Ben kill Jacob is Jacob's island buddy from the beginning of the show.

I think you may be on to something. What you said makes sense because if Jacob personifies good or goodness, why would he have instigated Nadia's death? It seemed to me like "Jacob" (or whoever was posing as him) planned that whole little scenario up- needing directions in order to stall Sayid, but not Nadia so that she gets killed.

[LissaMarie]

in the bible who was the brother of jacob?

Esau. That is my guess as to who that man was. Good question, Nate!

[scottie D]

At this point if you are looking at the Hebrew influence... is Jacob really good? He listens to God, but the old testament God was one mean son of a gun. And he didn't like idol worship. Isn't this Lost's Jacob's game, getting this cult together? Perhaps too many questions, but Jacob said in the first scene, about destruction I believe, that there is only one ending, and that all that leads to it is progress. Let us not forget the people murdered in Jacob's name. Are you in God's corner, or in the corner of human progress? Muhahahaha

[whitestar2]

I think Jacob and his nameless friend are definately opposites (oppposite and equal). They are bound by ancient rules which allow (force?) them to act in predictable ways--until now. Jacob playing still by the rules gives Ben a choice to kill him or not. The Island makes me think of a pocket of "The Garden of Eden" Actually if you play that thought out--Ben's admission that he promised the Smoke monster he would do what John said-- almost makes you think of the story of Adam and Eve and the serpent. Interesting imagery!!! Ben sounded petulant when he confronts Jacob to realize his "god" if you will didn't want to see his faithful accolyte. Man this is getting interesting.

[grrarrg]

in the bible who was the brother of jacob?

Esau. It starts in Genesis 25. They were twins, and Esau was born first. Jacob was grabbing Esau's heel as they were born, and that's the literal translation of his name ('he grasps the heel'), which apparently figuratively means 'he deceives.' BTW Esau was known for being hairy and very red when he was born. I don't remember if the guy on the beach was either hairy or reddish. Anyway, when they grew up, Esau was a hunter in the fields, and Jacob was a quiet man, "staying among the tents." Their father, Isaac, prefered Esau, while their mother Rebekah loved Jacob. One day Esau came in from the country and he was starving, and he asked Jacob for some of the stew he had. Jacob made him sell him his birthright (since Esau was the firstborn) in exchange for the stew, and Esau was so starving that he agreed. Later, when Isaac was dying, he told Esau to go hunting and bring him a special meal, and then he would give him his blessing. Rebekah overheard, and worked with Jacob to trick Isaac. Isaac was dying and couldn't see very well, and Rebekah used goatskin on Jacob's arms so that Isaac would be fooled when he touched him into thinking it really was the hairy Esau, and Jacob was given the blessing. Esau got very mad and vowed to kill Jacob, and Jacob ran away. Although, years later, Jacob came back with his family (including his youngest son, Benjamin! Jacob's favorite son was Joseph - he of the amazing technicolor dreamcoat - and Benjamin was the only other son born by Rachel, Jacob's favorite wife), Jacob was very humble, and Esau didn't seem to hold a grudge.
Of course things in the show aren't going to follow the bible story directly.I doubt they'd actually name the other guy Esau, but they might still borrow some elements, such as Jacob having taken something that should have been the other guy's, and the other guy holding a grudge. I never understood why the blessing was such a big deal, but I can understand the birthright thing, and no matter how you look at it, the biblical Jacob was a sneaky jerk. Sounds like stuff Lost's Ben would do, actually.

[I'mnotlost]

It cant be Hanso if his ship hasnt landed yet . So who is he ? OMG as soon as one question is answerd another takes its place
Religious-- Brothers Jacob n Esau!! Jacob stole Esau's birth right n received their fathers blessing by deception.

Jacob-- tall,slender,pale hair n skin.
Esau-- tall,masculine,dark hair,olive skin n hairy.

Their farther was blind. So when it became time for him to bless Esau's right of passage as the protector of EDEN, Jacob sent Esau on a fools errand n wore sheep's wool on his arms to fool his father into thinking he was in fact Esau n steal what wasn't rightfully his, thus banishing Esau from ever coming back!

Benjamin was Jacob youngest son & assumed to be a Master at Manipulation & getting people to actually believe in what he wants them to do!!

not exactly a direct quote from the bible but.... read the story of "Jacob n Esau" in the bible or online. This was the battle for "THE GARDEN OF EDEN"

[LissaMarie]

Ooh! I also just read in the thread about the alligator God Sobek that he replaced another God, Seth, and Seth may be looking to take back the throne. Interesting thoughts!!

[I'mnotlost]

Religious-- Brothers Jacob n Esau!! Jacob stole Esau's birth right n received their fathers blessing by deception.

Jacob-- tall,slender,pale hair n skin.
Esau-- tall,masculine,dark hair,olive skin n hairy.

Their farther was blind. So when it became time for him to bless Esau's right of passage as the protector of EDEN, Jacob sent Esau on a fools errand n wore sheep's wool on his arms to fool his father into thinking he was in fact Esau n steal what wasn't rightfully his, thus banishing Esau from ever coming back!

Benjamin was Jacob youngest son & assumed to be a Master at Manipulation & getting people to actually believe in what he wants them to do!!

not exactly a direct quote from the bible but.... read the story of "Jacob n Esau" in the bible or online. This was the battle for "THE GARDEN OF EDEN"
Sorry to have replied without reading whole thread. would have not stepped on your reply with basically same answer. did summarized though.

[swamp waste]

or jacob and "esau" (new locke/smokey) might be a warlike duality (force of repulsion) and rose and bernard could be a peaceful duality (force of attraction)

[audienceofone]

An entity similar to satan.

(I like when he said he just ate...yeah, we know what smokie likes to eat...)

I see a parallel to Jesus and satan...though they are not equal for Jesus is God and satan is merely a fallen angel. Satan wanted Jesus dead and thought he had killed Him by proxy using the Pharisees...satan couldn't do it himself.

In the beginning of the episode the "guy" (smokie) said he wanted to kill Jacob but could not.

Ben was smokie's proxy - hence the whole reason for Ben's existance and his inability to access Jacob, etc. Pawn for the bad guys.

[lostie108]

Yeh I think the other guy is smokie

i respectfully disagree i think the other guy was just his opposite and smokie is cerebus or the guardian of the island that is why he took form as alex and told ben to follow locke or smokie would hunt him down and kill him . i am not sure but somehow i think jacob kinda trapped that other guy from the beginning of the episode and the only way he could do anything was to jump into another body . but i guess he could have been trapped as smokie and needs a body . but it seemed that when ben told non-locke that alex his dead daughter told him to follow him that anti locke didnt know about that which made me think that the island favors this person not jacob . and we all know god does not favor jacob anymore . so i guess i am saying smokie and the guy at the beginning are two different people . imo

[2cansam]

An entity similar to satan.

(I like when he said he just ate...yeah, we know what smokie likes to eat...)

I see a parallel to Jesus and satan...though they are not equal for Jesus is God and satan is merely a fallen angel. Satan wanted Jesus dead and thought he had killed Him by proxy using the Pharisees...satan couldn't do it himself.

In the beginning of the episode the "guy" (smokie) said he wanted to kill Jacob but could not.

Ben was smokie's proxy - hence the whole reason for Ben's existance and his inability to access Jacob, etc. Pawn for the bad guys.


So this makes me wonder about Ben and Widmore and the whole you know i cant kill you concept. I guess it originated from Jacob and our mystery man

[lilsev42]

They are not enemies either,they are both angels ,and they do help and harm both do,as for when Ben said "what about me" and went in for the kill on Jacob he told Ben he had a choice.Hello ,Ben to angels they have gave up more in a blink than you have your whole life Ben,good will prevail.

[2cansam]

Maybe people think Jacob is good cause he believes in mankind , but maybe in reality no matter how much faith Jacob has in man they will always fail. The other guy knows this...neither of them are bad , but the mysterious man knows that although Jacob want to believe in man he will only cause more suffering to them in the end.

[Pung]

Not the answer that you guys are all looking for, but I think this is how IMDB list Jacobs pal: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0920038/

[2cansam]

Not the answer that you guys are all looking for, but I think this is how IMDB list Jacobs pal: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0920038/

I just think its funny that both of those guys where in Prison Break together on FOX and the guy that plays the Mysterious guy and the guy that played Jacob where both on the show at the same time and opposites of each other lol..they both got killed to lol

[Pung]

I just think its funny that both of those guys where in Prison Break together on FOX and the guy that plays the Mysterious guy and the guy that played Jacob where both on the show at the same time and opposites of each other lol..they both got killed to lol

I immediatly recognized the other guy from Deadwood. That is a great show!

[Pung]

Here's also what Lostpedia says about him: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob%27s_enemy

[hogwild96bob]

Maybe people think Jacob is good cause he believes in mankind , but maybe in reality no matter how much faith Jacob has in man they will always fail. The other guy knows this...neither of them are bad , but the mysterious man knows that although Jacob want to believe in man he will only cause more suffering to them in the end.

Yeah, just like Randolph and Mortimer Duke. Let's see if we can take the leader of the Others, never speak to him, kill his daughter, and banish him from the island. At the same time, we promote a crazy paralyzed guy who can't score with women and tell him he will be the leader. All over a wager of one fish.

[sneiram]

OK so my crazy theory:

First off I think we're on the right path going with a biblical background. There have been many theories in the past focusing on god/satan. I think they are definitely close. Years ago my theory had to do with the island being purgatory. The creators denied that theory but have recently said some of their denials were to keep people from figuring out the show too early. Do I think the island is purgatory? Not exactly. But it is a spiritual place not unlike an eden. Jacob and Esau(?) have been there for a long time. Possibly forever. I think the two "men" on the beach before the black rock came are god and satan. They're not stuck on the island, but have created a consciousness in a physical form. Jacob is god and the other guy is satan. On the beach they hint at knowing the boat is coming and they have a deal/bet in place with the people on that ship...

Are people intrinsically good or evil? Is there free will? Those are the questions. A bet is made on whether people are good at heart or not. If satan can get a "good" person to "kill" jacob he wins the bet. However Jacob gets to choose who he thinks is good. Jacob searches the world for those who he thinks is good. He's found some (the others) and keeps them happy and safe on eden. He keeps them close as part of the bet. But he must find others to test over and over. He finds them and brings them to the island. This has been done over and over (black rock, the french ship, two planes, and maybe others). Now the bet only applies to those identified as the good people so the others must be removed. Satan/smokey remove them. This has been done over and over. But it's not good enough to just bring good people to a beautiful island. They must be tested. If a good person is tested over and over with bad things happening to them will they still be good? This is the heart of the story line and follows the trials and tribulations of Job. If god can challenge someone and they still don't turn their back on him then he passes the test. The latest test was Ben. He was given cancer, he daughter taken from him, banished from eden, etc. And in the end he turns his back on god and kills him. Satan wins. Or does he? Not so I say. Satan cheated by instructing Ben to follow Locke's instructions. Locke who is dead and being impersonated by satan. So god finds a loophole and will resurrect himself at the end of the show.

One thing DL and CC do a lot on this show is parallel ideas. This dichotomy of satan/god has occurred over and over in the show. Locke and his father, Jack and his father, Ben and Charles, etc. It's a battle of good and evil. Charles knows that Ben wasn't as good as god that he was. This is why Charles wanted to stop Ben from going back to the island. But Charles can't kill Ben directly as satan can't kill god. But if Charles can convince someone else to kill Ben then it's fair game.

Obviously my theory has a lot missing. I wouldn't call them holes, there is just a lot going on. What is at the Swan station? Some energy force. Hell maybe? Back to the purgatory theme. Why can the island be moved? Not sure. What the hell happened with the H-Bomb? Maybe it closed the gate to hell. Again not sure. We won't know everything until the show ends (and then maybe not even then). But the heart of the story should be figured out with the information we know. JJ writes his stories this way. But there will be a twist or two left, and we'll have to wait 8 months to find out what that is.

[2cansam]

OK so my crazy theory:

First off I think we're on the right path going with a biblical background. There have been many theories in the past focusing on god/satan. I think they are definitely close. Years ago my theory had to do with the island being purgatory. The creators denied that theory but have recently said some of their denials were to keep people from figuring out the show too early. Do I think the island is purgatory? Not exactly. But it is a spiritual place not unlike an eden. Jacob and Esau(?) have been there for a long time. Possibly forever. I think the two "men" on the beach before the black rock came are god and satan. They're not stuck on the island, but have created a consciousness in a physical form. Jacob is god and the other guy is satan. On the beach they hint at knowing the boat is coming and they have a deal/bet in place with the people on that ship...

Are people intrinsically good or evil? Is there free will? Those are the questions. A bet is made on whether people are good at heart or not. If satan can get a "good" person to "kill" jacob he wins the bet. However Jacob gets to choose who he thinks is good. Jacob searches the world for those who he thinks is good. He's found some (the others) and keeps them happy and safe on eden. He keeps them close as part of the bet. But he must find others to test over and over. He finds them and brings them to the island. This has been done over and over (black rock, the french ship, two planes, and maybe others). Now the bet only applies to those identified as the good people so the others must be removed. Satan/smokey remove them. This has been done over and over. But it's not good enough to just bring good people to a beautiful island. They must be tested. If a good person is tested over and over with bad things happening to them will they still be good? This is the heart of the story line and follows the trials and tribulations of Job. If god can challenge someone and they still don't turn their back on him then he passes the test. The latest test was Ben. He was given cancer, he daughter taken from him, banished from eden, etc. And in the end he turns his back on god and kills him. Satan wins. Or does he? Not so I say. Satan cheated by instructing Ben to follow Locke's instructions. Locke who is dead and being impersonated by satan. So god finds a loophole and will resurrect himself at the end of the show.

One thing DL and CC do a lot on this show is parallel ideas. This dichotomy of satan/god has occurred over and over in the show. Locke and his father, Jack and his father, Ben and Charles, etc. It's a battle of good and evil. Charles knows that Ben wasn't as good as god that he was. This is why Charles wanted to stop Ben from going back to the island. But Charles can't kill Ben directly as satan can't kill god. But if Charles can convince someone else to kill Ben then it's fair game.

Obviously my theory has a lot missing. I wouldn't call them holes, there is just a lot going on. What is at the Swan station? Some energy force. Hell maybe? Back to the purgatory theme. Why can the island be moved? Not sure. What the hell happened with the H-Bomb? Maybe it closed the gate to hell. Again not sure. We won't know everything until the show ends (and then maybe not even then). But the heart of the story should be figured out with the information we know. JJ writes his stories this way. But there will be a twist or two left, and we'll have to wait 8 months to find out what that is.

So if Biblical why the tie in with the Egyptian styled statue? I don't think from a Christian stand point people would care for the two to represent God and Satin. I would be more convinced if the statue or any ties to gods outside of Christianity didnt exist in the show

[Losterella]

I am definitely think the guy with Jacob is his brother Esau or at least symbolizes him. Does anyone remember when Boone met up with Locke after his trip into the sweatlodge? Boone told Locke he needs to get the family back together. I never could figure out what Boone was talking about. Somehow I think this whole Biblical geneololgy connection ties into that. Any thoughts?

[Snape]

The other guy is smokie!

QFT

100% Smoke Monster

[2cansam]

He is the Island so therfore he is smokie. I think of all the people it looked as if Ben was played for a fool the most , but I think of all the people to be played it was Richard.

[Faraday'sGal]

I always thought the Jacob/Esua connection applied more to Ben & Locke, who I believe are half brothers. Ben is deceitful and keeps Locke from assuming his "right" to leadership. But does that mean Ben is ultimately good? Locke is easily manipulated and Ben tried to keep control to prevent the other side from corrupting Locke?

I love the ideas of Jacob/mystery man being warring angels and/or god/satan. I don't see why the Egyptian thing would be incompatible.

[2cansam]

Half brothers as in ? Whos the daddy Roger ?

[Faraday'sGal]

I think they share their mother, Emily was it? Different daddies!

[hjai]

here's my stream of jumbled thinking/questions:
Interesting how in the beginning of the episode, Jacob wore white and Esau wore black, good and evil. like that avatar someone has on this board (i think?) of locke holding up those 2 gamepices, one white one black.
also, going back to locke's first meeting at the cabin with "Jacob" - i'm assuming this was really esau because the whoever was in the cabin hates technology, and more people coming to the island means more technology, and the real jacob wanted the ship to come to the island so it seems he doesn't mind technology. that's one reason why i think it was esau in the cabin. i also think it was really jacob (and not esau taking the form of jacob) off island meeting all the oceanic guys because esau hates technology so he would've gone nuts if he went off-island (with all the street lights, flash lights, cell phones, etc.), and also when the oceanic guys were visited off island, none of them knew who jacob and esau were, so what's the point of a disguise? he could've disguised himself as cc or dl and none of the oceanic would know a difference (at least up to this point in the series).
at the end of the episode, when jacob talked to ben about having a choice, why did he go from speaking compassionately about choice to a "you're a peasant" attitude when saying "what about you?"?

sorry if i'm reposting other peoples ideas, i haven't had a chance to read all the new posts.

[losttime]

So based on the conversation they had in the begining and the guy in the dark shirt saying how he wanted to kill Jacob and that he would find a loophole and than when the Locke that shows up with Ben and than Jacob mentions that Locke found the loop hole. So can it be that the guy talking to Jacob was the smoke monster appearing in hman form as someone we just havent met yet?

[2cansam]

They should have shown Jacob in the flashes way before now. the didn't have actually show us his face , but maybe just his bottom half like legs and shoes...and give us a voice , but never actually show us who he is. I wanted there to be a thrill factor when we seen him , but they got that right out the way at the beginning of the show. I thinks its stupid how they have him appearing in these people lives just now. this should have been done way before now...its like they just threw him in there and had to give him people to go see.

[caboosification]

Yeah anti-jacob has to be the smoke monster. From what we know smokie kills only 'non-others' (anti-jacob clearly does not like them either). And ... Smokie let's Ben live and persuades him to kill jacob in the temple and later as fake-locke.

[...and found]

The flashbacks that Jacob appears in are events that we have (for the most part) heard about but not seen. I think there was a point to withholding the flashbacks until now as they give us a greater understanding of the characters.

Having said that, I do agree that it would have been cool if we had already seen Jacob without knowing it.

[lyceum1979]

i think you're wrong. he can't take any form he can only take the form of dead people on the Island. ben's daughter, christian, Locke, etc.

that WAS jacob that visited the O6

[New Age Messiah]

As I said, the island is the underworld as understood by Egyptians. It is a mirror image of reality, torn from down under, from half way across the world.

The souls on the island came there (the first time) only by way of the Black Rock.

There may be several sets of Black Rock crew, others, hostiles, losties, Illana? I don't know. But there's only one way to find the island for the first time, it finds you.

[kirockk]

I know there is a huge scientific aspect to this show, but it also has religious themes all over the place. There are always two, we were just introduced to Jacob's opposite. The battle of good versus evil. Everyone has been listening to Jacob, my question is does he represent the good or the evil?

Jacob lives underneath a statue of the crocodile god Sobek. If you wikipedia sobek you will find some interesting things. Most interesting is that he was considered a repairer of evil but he himself was not a force for good OR evil. He fixed situations or repaired souls.

[2cansam]

i think you're wrong. he can't take any form he can only take the form of dead people on the Island. ben's daughter, christian, Locke, etc.

that WAS jacob that visited the O6

What about Walt? Walt wasn't dead , but appeared just as Christian

[2cansam]

When Walt said to John that he had a dream about him and he was in a suit and people where trying to kill him could only mean that the body in Brahm and Ilena's case of John will come back to life. It was wearing a suit