"...you found the loophole..."

[XmasDVD]

Apparantly Jacob & Anti-Jacob can not kill each other but they have to trick someone into doing it for them.

Seems reasonable. Thoughts?

[LOSTLOST]

Apparantly Jacob & Anti-Jacob can not kill each other but they have to trick someone into doing it for them.

Seems reasonable. Thoughts?

sounds familiar... Ben and Widmore's Rules

[1hourisntlongenough]

just like the "agreement" between Ben and Widmore

[1hourisntlongenough]

sounds familiar... Ben and Widmore's Rules

sorry...must have posted at same time...lol

[XmasDVD]

hmm I forgot about that "The rules have changed John..."

[DCott]

well, actually, anti-jacob was the one who actually killed jacob by kicking him into the fire.

[coldandevell]

Apparantly Jacob & Anti-Jacob can not kill each other but they have to trick someone into doing it for them.

Seems reasonable. Thoughts?


So than who is Lockes "father" They were trying to trick John into doing it but John tricked Sawyer.

[XmasDVD]

Seems like a series of tests along the way to see what kind of people they are.

[wvugurl]

ok the loophole...ummm the other guy-anti jacob maybe always wanted to get off the island but actually could not be free due to being tied with jacob on the island..so the "loophole" had to be found so anti jacob can be free of jacob and the island...possibly?

[jblost]

The loophole is getting the current leader to kill Jacob...

He's the only one that can interact with Jacob (besides Richard) so Jacob is vulnerable to him.

Because John never really became the leader (passed the tests, etc) then Ben is still the leader

[Workman]

The loophole is getting the current leader to kill Jacob...

He's the only one that can interact with Jacob (besides Richard) so Jacob is vulnerable to him.

Because John never really became the leader (passed the tests, etc) then Ben is still the leader

Could be why Jacob never wanted to see Ben. He was too easily persuaded by evil and failed his tests in life. He was a liar and manipulator, something Jacob didn't like.

[DNIYM]

Really? So we have Smoke Dawg v. Jacob and Smokey can take on the form / appearance of anyone or anything but it takes him well over 200 years to figure out that by taking on the appearance of someone (Locke), then taking on the appearance of someone else (Alex) and scaring the schiese out of a third someone (Ben), he can then convince that third someone to kill Jacob for him? It took 5 seasons for them to inform us that one of the most important elements of the show is a supernatural force with super-human powers and remedial strategic thoughts? Really? He couldn't have taken on the appearance of Daniel, after Ellie shot him, to "come back from the dead" and haunt her and tell her that she needed to kill Jacob, 30 years prior?

[abcd1234]

if you have ever read the dark tower series, it all is a big loop that repeats itself. the two guys were saying "here it goes again" and the one guy said "I want to kill you so bad" so I am guessing it has happened over and over again

[a1sacch]

The loophole is getting the current leader to kill Jacob...

He's the only one that can interact with Jacob (besides Richard) so Jacob is vulnerable to him.

Because John never really became the leader (passed the tests, etc) then Ben is still the leader

Completely agree, especially after Richard's comment to Jack about Locke never seeming special, apparently he never really passed any of those tests.

[LostFreak21]

Ben, now that is another story. Who set up the whole Alex smokie thing for Ben?

[WhalerDO]

The loophole is getting the current leader to kill Jacob...

He's the only one that can interact with Jacob (besides Richard) so Jacob is vulnerable to him.

Because John never really became the leader (passed the tests, etc) then Ben is still the leader


The loop-hole was not to get the leader to kill Jacob. But rather to get someone to kill Jacob of his own (precieved) free-will. Thus anti-Jacob (aka smokie?) manipulated Ben into wanting to kill Jacob on his own accord.

[XmasDVD]

That's right - Smokie came to Ben in the form of Alex and told him to do whatever Locke said..or else.

[thatguycraig]

if you have ever read the dark tower series, it all is a big loop that repeats itself. the two guys were saying "here it goes again" and the one guy said "I want to kill you so bad" so I am guessing it has happened over and over again


i agree myself - i think that this is completely the case - IMO, i think that the black rock were the first losties - the anti locke tried to get someone from the boat to kill jacob - and failed... mayeb there has been more before and after that.... and failed the two guys were saying "here it goes again" and the one guy said "I want to kill you so bad"

so i think that finally he has (or think he has) now got to kill him

[abcd1234]

but when they see the boat, which Im assuming is the blackrock, they speak about it as though they have done this before. so there has had to be someone there before, unless they are on a literal loop. I thought they might be more on a loop where the players are different, from different ages.

[chester]

The loop-hole was not to get the leader to kill Jacob. But rather to get someone to kill Jacob of his own (precieved) free-will. Thus anti-Jacob (aka smokie?) manipulated Ben into wanting to kill Jacob on his own accord.

Yes, this is what I think the loop-hole might be too. I guess a part of that is he needed to be able to get someone in there to see Jacob, who was not the leader, and so might want to kill him for that very reason.

Maybe if you're leader, you can go back and change things that you didn't want to happen...so they don't. If you're not leader, you just have to live with 'what happened'. Unless the stuff the new leader does accidentally changes that too?

but when they see the boat, which Im assuming is the blackrock, they speak about it as though they have done this before. so there has had to be someone there before, unless they are on a literal loop. I thought they might be more on a loop where the players are different, from different ages.

I think the loop might be referring to the cycle of dominant civilizations over history. Sumerian, Egyptian, Roman, etc. Maybe at various stages in 'history' people from different parts of the planet have accidentally stumbled on 'the island' (via Jacob?), and proceeded to exploit it's unique properties (time-travel), and make themselves powerful, and become greedy and self destruct (i.e., collapse as a power).

This new 'iteration' is the "western world". Maybe the Black Rock visit is what really got the industrial revolution into swing, and the result of this collapse will be nuclear holocaust??

And maybe this has happened 'before'. Is this what happened to Atlantis and Mu??

Just some thoughts.

[LissaMarie]

I realy love that train of thought, Chester!! Great ideas!

That would fit in perfectly with Jacob's quote about progress, wouldn't it?

[chester]

I realy love that train of thought, Chester!! Great ideas!

That would fit in perfectly with Jacob's quote about progress, wouldn't it?

Thanks Lissa. Thought they would just get washed away in this flood of threads. :)

I can't remember the Jacob progress quote? What did he say again? I still have to watch it again yet. I bet I've missed alot.

[chester]

Just on another thing I'm unsure of. Did Jacob say to Sayid that he was from LA, that's why he needed help finding his way around?

[LissaMarie]

Thanks Lissa. Thought they would just get washed away in this flood of threads. :)

I can't remember the Jacob progress quote? What did he say again? I still have to watch it again yet. I bet I've missed alot.

"It only ends once. Anything that happens before that, is just progress".

Just on another thing I'm unsure of. Did Jacob say to Sayid that he was from LA, that's why he needed help finding his way around?

"Excuse me Sir, could you help me? I think I'm lost...are you from Los Angeles?"

I just watched it again to make sure:)


My first reaction was to think that Locke himself (returning as a proxy for Christian) was the loophole but you and a lot of other posters have me really considering that! Thanks for your thoughts, as always!:)

[chester]

"It only ends once. Anything that happens before that, is just progress."

Thanks Lissa. I checked that out myself too. I does lend support to that threory, doesn't it. History repeating itself in the rise and fall of civilizations, due to greed and corruption. I think maybe our two friends on the beach might be the source (in LOST) for alot of mythologies.....

Order vs. Chaos? / Freedom vs. Control?

[wiley]

It seemed to me these two guys were a lot like the debates around here.
It seemed Jacob was all about free will, and Jacob's nemesis was kind of fatalistic.

[LissaMarie]

I agree, Wiley. It seems like the WHH vs. TCC debate we have been dealing with over the past few weeks. I wonder if TPTB knew life would imitate art in such a way!

[chester]

Eristic vs. Aneristic?

[LissaMarie]

Optimist vs. pessimist?

[wiley]

Eristic vs. Aneristic?

I had to look these up. I can't wait to use them in a sentence.

[chester]

I had to look these up. I can't wait to use them in a sentence.

Haha, I was hoping you would Wiley.

All hail Discordia! ;):D

[chester]

The Principia Discordia:

http://appendix.23ae.com/pd1/16.html

Has anyone read this before?

[LissaMarie]

The Principia Discordia:

http://appendix.23ae.com/pd1/16.html

Has anyone read this before?

Oh my!!! I actually read about it in one of my college Sociology courses! I can't believe you just posted that, Chester! I think dust just blew off of those synapses in my brain!:p

[chester]

Well, it's a pretty big part of 'The Illuminatus! Trilolgy' which I know the TPTB are huge fans of, and it seems to tie in with the reference to the 60ft tall flaming(burning) man too.....

[TheNagual]

The Principia Discordia:

http://appendix.23ae.com/pd1/16.html

Has anyone read this before?

Ha, havent read it before, but Im reading Robert Anton Wilson,,

familiar?

[LissaMarie]

Haha! It really does! That is crazy, Chess. I loved that class. Really taught me a lot about human nature.

I didn't know The Illuminatus Trilogy was a fav of TPTB. I knew it was yours!

[chester]

Ha, havent read it before, but Im reading Robert Anton Wilson,,

familiar?

Familiar!!?? Ummm, yes!!

What are you reading?

[chester]

Haha! It really does! That is crazy, Chess. I loved that class. Really taught me a lot about human nature.

I didn't know The Illuminatus Trilogy was a fav of TPTB. I knew it was yours!

I remember hearing/watching an interview, along time ago. When they were "explaining" where the idea for the numbers came from (before the Valenzetti equation). They said only one number really mattered, 23, and that was inspired by that book. The Principia Discordia also likes that number. Along with 5.

[TheNagual]

Familiar!!?? Ummm, yes!!

What are you reading?
I'm reading "Everything is under control", I started Illuminatus trilogy few weeks ago but dropped it after 70pages since my brain started frying, I will have to try again, I know.

[chester]

I'm reading "Everything is under control", I started Illuminatus trilogy few weeks ago but dropped it after 70pages since my brain started frying, I will have to try again, I know.

Lol. Yeah you gotta get past the first hundred. Then once you finish it; read it a few more times. I'm thinking about reading it again during in the break :o

I haven't read "Everything is under control", is that one of his latest?

[TheNagual]

Lol. Yeah you gotta get past the first hundred. Then once you finish it; read it a few more times. I'm thinking about reading it again during in the break :o

I haven't read "Everything is under control", is that one of his latest?
I think it is, its like a conspiracy theory dictionary literally, goes through every or almost every hidden or not so hidden society on this planet.

[LissaMarie]

Sounds like it's right up your alley, Chester!

Happy Friday to one and all!:)

[XmasDVD]

WOW that got off topic quick.. :--)

[hogwild96bob]

...so in an effort to get back on topic...

The loophole is similar to the conflict between Jesus (or God) and Satan. Now all of you who skipped Sunday school, pay ATTENTION!!

Satan was thrown out of heaven for usurping God's authority. However, Satan and God are still on speaking terms (read the book of Job). Satan wants to kill God, but can't; he needs a loophole. God, needing to interact with His creation (who, it is said, has free will), comes to Earth in the form of a man: Jesus. Satan has a face to face with Jesus trying everything he can to trip up the Son of God (see Matt chap 4). Failing that, Satan moves on to influencing powerful leaders of the day: the Pharasies. Thinking they are doing the right thing, the Pharasies want Jesus tried by the Roman courts; the punishment is death.

Jesus gets killed; Satan only had to influence someone to do it.

[XmasDVD]

ding ding ding! We have a winner.