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View Full Version : so now that the seasons over... some thoughts (mostly about jacob).


myohmy
05-15-2009, 12:54 AM
So first off, a pretty good season overall, had its ups had its downs but ended in super awesome fashion.

I personally am a believer that smokey is anti-jacob (and from here on out will assume that as truth) and that the loop that they describe has something to do with a very basic good versus evil human nature argument where people come to the island and they try and keep the "good guys" to protect it. however, at some point it all needs to end. the good versus evil, black versus white has been a theme on the show for a while and jacobs and anti-jacobs clothing and hair was too perfect for it not to be a reference to this black and white theme.

So one thing that had me thinking for a while was why Sun did not go back in time like the others. It seems that as the plane either the final turn of the donkey wheel happened as their plane was crashing (only problem is then that should put them in '74 not '77 so who knows) or they just flashed back for some reason we'll find out later. To me there are two possibilities to why Sun did not flash back; 1. Locke did not visit her, maybe for some reason him visiting the other 4 allowed them to be joined to the time travel crazyness. the second (and now it looks like more likely) possibility is that when jacob visited them he somehow directed them in the right manner by touching them so they would end up in the right places. if Sun and Jin are together they wont have the motivation to do what they need to do.

So we have known for a while that smokey inhabits dead people and it seems hes got a thing for dead people that show up in airplanes. This is the reason that jacob had the others burn their dead and the buried dead seems to be fair game for smokey. therefore it is interesting that Locke/Smokey pushed jacob into the fire when this takes away his ability to take over the body.

As well with jacob, i believe that he may get the last laugh in his death. similar to dumbledore/gandalf/obi-wan kenobi, it seems the wise old man always has to die in order to enable the destruction of his evil counterpart. He talks about how the end is all that matters and everything before is progress, I think his hand picking of the 815'ers was his way of enabling the end of the loop and we will find that his death was something both necessary and welcomed.

along these lines i believe that jacob and smokey had somehow developed rules between them for how they interacted with people who came to the island. i believe that smokey cannot harm people who are good in their heart or feel remorse, its part of the rules and is why smokey first could not then could attack eko, it is why it did not kill locke and it is why it could not kill jacob. the island is all about giving people choices and jacob and smokey are required to give people a choice. jacob believes they will choose good, smokey believes the opposite. this is why jacob tells ben he has a choice. in telling ben he has a choice he enables his own death (the end of the loop and the point where things begin to truly matter) which he had been bringing about for a long time with his treatment of ben and bringing the 815'ers to the island. everyone on the show is there for a reason and Ben's reason was to kill jacob, the tricky thing is that this was enabled by jacob, not smokey. Jacob found the loophole. and now we find ourselves at the ending that matters.

also Locke being smokey fixed the potential problem of a locke time loop. it wasnt locke that told locke that he needed to die thus killing locke and so on. it was smokey (an entity that it seems, with jacob might be free from normal time constraints). therefore smokey told locke he needed to die so no loop, the compass is in a loop but who cares.

finally i was a believer in the theory that the whole show will end with jack going back to the beginning and waking up in the jungle. (someone explained it on the forum a while a go. there's a lot of evidence that this happens from the pilot episode, and other things). now it may seem that that is what would have happened. but the end of jacob and this little bomb change everything.

long post. sorry. if you read it, thank you, it was my first one.

jughead
05-15-2009, 01:59 AM
Pretty close to my assumptions now too. For a while I've been saying that Ben is evil because he has to be...the whole Judas thing. But, I may recant on my Charles is evil because he wants to be based upon the last episode. Charles is just a player and nothing more. He was our red herring to follow.

Good vs Evil:

Jacob = Good (Free will, Karma)

Smokey = Evil or anti-jacob (Fate, Destiny, Possession)

Fate can not be aligned with Karma, thus he must kill him (it).

Jacob told "smokey" he needed a loop-hole to win. He's used several loop holes and turned a trick on everyone...even the super brain of Ben. Fate couldn't kill Karma, he had to use a proxy. The whole journey was to create the proxy. Even Richard was fooled.

Does anyone think that the Hanso secret message was forshadowing this?

I also think (IMHO) Bernard and Rose represent that free will of acceptance of what unfolds. They are retired and don't care what happens...literally retired from life and all the crap that comes with it. But, no I don't think they were/are dead.

FanFiltration
05-15-2009, 02:09 AM
Zombie Locke did not know of Ben meeting his dead daughter, or what else happened with Ben and the smoke. I think the smoke is a 3rd entity altogether.

jamhaw
05-15-2009, 02:25 AM
Zombie Locke did not know of Ben meeting his dead daughter, or what else happened with Ben and the smoke. I think the smoke is a 3rd entity altogether.

Perhaps aligned with the Locke impersonator?

msmith92
05-15-2009, 02:33 AM
I also think (IMHO) Bernard and Rose represent that free will of acceptance of what unfolds. They are retired and don't care what happens...literally retired from life and all the crap that comes with it. But, no I don't think they were/are dead.

They represent Plato's view on death.

FanFiltration
05-15-2009, 02:34 AM
Perhaps aligned with the Locke impersonator?

Or, playing two sides against the middle...

Snape
05-15-2009, 04:33 AM
Zombie Locke did not know of Ben meeting his dead daughter, or what else happened with Ben and the smoke. I think the smoke is a 3rd entity altogether.

Nah, Zombie Locke ENTIRELY already knew what Ben saw because he was the one that did it - he just played like he didn't know what Ben saw in order to get him to agree to kill Jacob.

BTW, Jacob is H-O-T. I hope we see more of him. :o

I Killed Jacob
05-15-2009, 04:51 AM
After the second plane crash, smokie and locke, never seen together, coincidence?

DarkPhoenix-24
05-15-2009, 06:17 AM
After the second plane crash, smokie and locke, never seen together, coincidence?

totally agree with that! i was thinking the exact same thing.

when Jacob was killed, I was shocked that after only ONE episode of seeing him, he would get knocked off the show like that. HOWEVER! After a lot of thinking and a lot of reading these forums, it really got me thinking about how everyone is connected some how for some reason. Especially all this "destiny" stuff.

It seems like to me that Jacob planned his own death because I believe he would have put up a fight if he didn't want to die. Jacob apparantly knows everything and would have been able to keep little ole Ben from stabbing him. I believe Jacob knew that the John Locke in front of him was not the real John Locke even before John made that comment that had Ben ask "have you two met before?"

It would make sense that smokie and jacob have been against each other because wouldn't Richard or one of the others mention something like "Jacob commands smokie" or "smokie does Jacob's bidding" etc.

MalachiConstant
05-15-2009, 06:17 AM
I have a different take on it. If the two characters in the beginning were in fact Jacob and Esau, Jacob would be the faith/destiny one and Esau would be the Science/Human Will one. Which makes it even funnier that Esau was able to manipulate all of them so well.
Here is a question for you. Was Esau posing as Jacob for Richard so that Richard believed he was working for Jacob?