Theory: 1977 and 2007 are happening side-by-side, and Jacob is Evil! Opinions please?

[rock-lobster]

this just occurred to me, and it's highly likely IMO.

it appears that jacob's major intent is to bring people to the island and prove his buddy wrong. he brought the black rock here (he didn't deny that he did, so i'll assume) and it appears that he brought 815 here.

as we all know, it was pretty firm up until the variable that whatever happened, happened.

jacob appears to be taking on the role of course-correcter extraordinaire. he seems to give "a little push" to anyone who needs it to make sure they wind up on the island and in the scenario he wants them to be in, such as with his encounters with our oceanic friends.

anti-jacob (i'll call him smokie because i do think he's smokie and if not it doesn't affect much of this post anyway) is trying to figure out a way to stop all of this. smokie wants to keep people from coming to his (or their, we don't know yet) island and destroying things and causing nothing but problems. he wants that to stop, and he knows of jacob's abilities to manipulate time to his liking and such, he wants to find a loophole.

finally he gets his chance and takes it. it seems, to us watching, that when jack throws the bomb down the hole towards the magnetism that nothing happens.

i think that was EXACTLY what was supposed to happen up until that point. however, once smokie effectively killed jacob, his abilities to steer events to his liking was taken away, and now, juliet has the free will to actually detonate the bomb.

so why side-by-side? as we've been hearing from theorists on here a lot, it's highly possible that there are two sides to reality on the show, and if one of these sides experienced time travel, and the other didn't, then what we are seeing may be two of the same island, one displaced in time and one still in the present, where, excluding the difference in time caused by the actual time travel itself, the two islands are in sync.

as in, if jacob was killed 3 years after ben turned the wheel in 2007, then the time-displaced island is affected by that (along with the original island, obviously) 3 years after 1974 (minus the time that the other time shifting lasted for).

so, as soon as jacob is killed in the present reality, the present reality, as well as the past reality, in real time (minus 30 years), can now exhibit their own free will.

as such, juliet finds and detonates the nuke, altering the sequence of time.

by the way, let me add that i am leaning on the "Jacob is evil" side of the fence. Remember back when conning was a theme of the show? the whole premise was "getting someone to do something like it was their idea, but it's really yours." jacob keeps telling people they have a choice, but i believe that when he does this, he's only trying to con people into choosing what he wants. does this mean that he actually wanted ben to kill him? maybe, maybe not. further evidence that he's indeed evil is his attitude towards ben, and i think TPTB made a point to us to show us jacob's insincere attitude after all of those scenes of him seeming so friendly, juxtaposed with ben, who, after appearing to be a "bad guy" all along, has only been a manipulated and unappreciated guy.

they revealed that helpful jacob was really just a scheming selfish guy, while we got the opposite with ben.
i hear a lot of people retort quickly that jacob represents free will. lets look at what's going on from a different perspective, the one lost has been foreshadowing for a while:

Jacob presents people with choices, but then so did sawyer, and so did anthony cooper, when we saw them conning people. he made sure to tell people they didn't have to do what they wanted, and their sly way of presenting a deceiving free will made the people choose exactly what they had planned out for their own benefits. jacob could very well be the same way, right? i'm not saying he's DEFINITELY a conman, but i wouldn't let the color of his shirt quicken my decision either.

we think these two plot lines are happening 30 years apart, but while the historical dates may say so, they affect each other in real time. jacob ensured that in both worlds, there was predictable and repeating outcomes, and whatever happened, happened. smokie kills jacob in the 2007 world, and suddenly both worlds have opened the door to free will. so juliet does find a way to make juggy detonate and now we have a new timeline, one that may affect both worlds, or just one, that is yet to be revealed.

also, one last thing, note how anti-jacob-locke-dude says "with jacob gone, things will change." things haven't changed in the story of the island because jacob keeps retelling the same story, but if he dies, true free-will can reign.

let me know what you guys think!

[Epy]

You made a lot of great points, some which I agree with. I am firmly on the Jacob is good boat though.

I believe good and evil are two sides of the same coin. Weather Jacob is good and smokie is evil, or visa versa, they are both involving innocent people as their pawns just to prove each other wrong. Is this really evil, or good for that matter?

What does make me think that Jacob is good is his compassionate demeanor. He seems to really care about the lives he is involving in this game, and he wants them to succeed. He wants someone to finally prove smokie wrong and to do the right thing.

Where as smokie has no compassion, showing no mercy to those who have been brought to the island and don't measure up to his standard. He tormented Locke all his life leading him to believe he was special, and putting him through horrible experiences leaving him a broken man who was easy to manipulate, all so he could kill him an use his body. And lets not forget what he did to Ben. All 35 years of his life smokie has been turning him into a monster, all so he would have a weapon to murder Jacob. If thats not evil, I don't know what is.

Again, though, good and evil are two sides of the same coin, yin and yang, if you will. Depending upon how you look at it, I suppose Jacob could be seen as evil, and smokie is trying to change things for the better. However, I believe Jacob will win this game and set everything right in the end. I think Jacob has already found the person who will break the circle, and that person is Hurley.

[seeknay2012]

Jacob and Smokie are Ancients. They can not kill eachother, although they have been at war for so long (Thousands of years). Notice they didn't give a time period for that scene with the two of them on the beach in the shadow of the Statue. A decendant of a God can't kill another. But if they find a loophole they can. That loophole being to trick a mortal into killing Jacob. If you look at the images on the tappestry Jacob has been weaving, you will see a ship decending from the heavens. Jacob, with his dying breath tells his counter part that "THEY" are comimg. "They" would be the Ancient Gods who left them on earth to gaurd the Island. The group that was carrying the real Locke's body (Raiders of the Ark style) might also be offspring of Jacob or The Man in Black. Remember, they knew the right password to get Richard (who is Jacob's son) to hear them out. Chew on that.

[MagicoA]

this just occurred to me, and it's highly likely IMO.

it appears that jacob's major intent is to bring people to the island and prove his buddy wrong. he brought the black rock here (he didn't deny that he did, so i'll assume) and it appears that he brought 815 here.

as we all know, it was pretty firm up until the variable that whatever happened, happened.

jacob appears to be taking on the role of course-correcter extraordinaire. he seems to give "a little push" to anyone who needs it to make sure they wind up on the island and in the scenario he wants them to be in, such as with his encounters with our oceanic friends.

anti-jacob (i'll call him smokie because i do think he's smokie and if not it doesn't affect much of this post anyway) is trying to figure out a way to stop all of this. smokie wants to keep people from coming to his (or their, we don't know yet) island and destroying things and causing nothing but problems. he wants that to stop, and he knows of jacob's abilities to manipulate time to his liking and such, he wants to find a loophole.

finally he gets his chance and takes it. it seems, to us watching, that when jack throws the bomb down the hole towards the magnetism that nothing happens.

i think that was EXACTLY what was supposed to happen up until that point. however, once smokie effectively killed jacob, his abilities to steer events to his liking was taken away, and now, juliet has the free will to actually detonate the bomb.

so why side-by-side? as we've been hearing from theorists on here a lot, it's highly possible that there are two sides to reality on the show, and if one of these sides experienced time travel, and the other didn't, then what we are seeing may be two of the same island, one displaced in time and one still in the present, where, excluding the difference in time caused by the actual time travel itself, the two islands are in sync.

as in, if jacob was killed 3 years after ben turned the wheel in 2007, then the time-displaced island is affected by that (along with the original island, obviously) 3 years after 1974 (minus the time that the other time shifting lasted for).

so, as soon as jacob is killed in the present reality, the present reality, as well as the past reality, in real time (minus 30 years), can now exhibit their own free will.

as such, juliet finds and detonates the nuke, altering the sequence of time.

by the way, let me add that i am leaning on the "Jacob is evil" side of the fence. Remember back when conning was a theme of the show? the whole premise was "getting someone to do something like it was their idea, but it's really yours." jacob keeps telling people they have a choice, but i believe that when he does this, he's only trying to con people into choosing what he wants. does this mean that he actually wanted ben to kill him? maybe, maybe not. further evidence that he's indeed evil is his attitude towards ben, and i think TPTB made a point to us to show us jacob's insincere attitude after all of those scenes of him seeming so friendly, juxtaposed with ben, who, after appearing to be a "bad guy" all along, has only been a manipulated and unappreciated guy.

they revealed that helpful jacob was really just a scheming selfish guy, while we got the opposite with ben.
i hear a lot of people retort quickly that jacob represents free will. lets look at what's going on from a different perspective, the one lost has been foreshadowing for a while:

Jacob presents people with choices, but then so did sawyer, and so did anthony cooper, when we saw them conning people. he made sure to tell people they didn't have to do what they wanted, and their sly way of presenting a deceiving free will made the people choose exactly what they had planned out for their own benefits. jacob could very well be the same way, right? i'm not saying he's DEFINITELY a conman, but i wouldn't let the color of his shirt quicken my decision either.

we think these two plot lines are happening 30 years apart, but while the historical dates may say so, they affect each other in real time. jacob ensured that in both worlds, there was predictable and repeating outcomes, and whatever happened, happened. smokie kills jacob in the 2007 world, and suddenly both worlds have opened the door to free will. so juliet does find a way to make juggy detonate and now we have a new timeline, one that may affect both worlds, or just one, that is yet to be revealed.

also, one last thing, note how anti-jacob-locke-dude says "with jacob gone, things will change." things haven't changed in the story of the island because jacob keeps retelling the same story, but if he dies, true free-will can reign.

let me know what you guys think!
u know that actually makes sense,i like that idea

[seeknay2012]

[QUOTE=MagicoA;226139]u know that actually makes sense,i like that idea.

Jacob is NOT evil. His counter part is. If you think about it, when he shows up in the lives of the Oceanic survivors, he was giving them spiritual advice. Think of the scenes he shows up in. Kate was stealing, Sawyer was writing a murderous note...........Tho shalt not steal, Tho shault not kill, and so on. Come on people......open your minds. Look up the story of Enki & Enkil. ITs ALL THERE

[Greg Dharma]

[QUOTE=MagicoA;226139]u know that actually makes sense,i like that idea.

Jacob is NOT evil. His counter part is. If you think about it, when he shows up in the lives of the Oceanic survivors, he was giving them spiritual advice. Think of the scenes he shows up in. Kate was stealing, Sawyer was writing a murderous note...........Tho shalt not steal, Tho shault not kill, and so on. Come on people......open your minds. Look up the story of Enki & Enkil. ITs ALL THERE

ah, yeah! can i get some Annunaki up in this piece?:cool:

Jacob is definitely not evil. Lindelof/Cuse confirm this. but is anti-jacob evil, dark, or something else?

all we really know is that he seems to be the antithesis of jacob the believer in humankind's inherent goodness--an eternal skeptic, as it were.

what makes the most sense to me is that jacob/anti-jacob represent the concepts of free will vs. destiny. the clues to this are that smokey isnt inherently evil. he just has his own ideas for the island which are different from jacob's. also jacob pushes people to decide for themselves. his influence is very subtle, for the most part. he asked hurley to go back to the island, but for everyone else,it was more of a nudge. when smokey appeared as christian to locke, that was more of a push.

[Newbie]

I very sorry to Lobster, it was a very good, detailed,well thought out theory.
And i hate when I spend alot of time and effort on a theory and someone comes in with a one liner trying to destroy the entire thing.
So I would just like to comment on this well laid out theory and say. During the conversation at the start of the Incident between black shirt and white shirt.Black shirt said something like, Why did you bring them here, all they do is fight, destroy and corrupt. And then says, Are you still trying to prove me wrong? This conversation to me sounds like black shirt is saying all humans are bad and can never be as "enlighten" as jacob thinks they can be. But jacob says he can prove black shirt wrong by showing humans can be enlightened.
Why would Black shirt say all we humans do if fight, destroy and corrupt if he is on our side and thinks highly of us?

[Lost-Wiz]

I like that someone agrees that Jacob may not be as innocent as some think, and I definitely think he knew this was coming because what he said to Ben "what about you" was definitely asking to get stabbed, however I don't know how Jacob saying "they're coming" ties into it. I think that smokie has actually been working on locke for a while...in the first season locke runs into the smoke monstor and he seems to change from that point on becoming "the man of faith." It's like one big elaberate plan by anti-jacob, who I believe was in season 4

[wiley]

In Christianity It's God that thinks people are bad, the only true good is God. He even offers forgiveness to all that believe.
It's the Devil that is the sweet talking charmer that tries to convince you that your good and don't need forgiveness.

They both believe in free-will.
God provides free-will knowing wrong choices will be made and forgives.
The devil counts on it.

I am not bible thumping, it just seems to me all is not as it seems.