Locke- 2 vessels, Christian- 1 vessel

[rock-lobster]

to all those saying that locke is 100% a goner, how do you factor in the fact that jack found an empty coffin where dead christian should be?

if there is only 1 christian body and it was in use by anti-jacob, then it makes sense that he was literally just using his body as a guise.

but if locke is existing as both a dead body and as an anti-jacob manifestation, it makes more sense to say that anti-jacob is using his soul, not his body, right? in that sense, locke's soul is still alive. even though locke is dead, his soul still co-exists with anti-jacob, which is why the being still acts like a well enlightened locke.

that make any sense?

[Dreamingwolf]

lockes body was hidden, so its safe to assume christians body is hidden also.

[notsolost42]

No one really knows what or who happened to Christian just yet and I wouldn't jump the gun with any conclusions! John Locke is dead. Please accept this as it is fact. Even Terry O'Quinn says he is preparing to play a different role next season, that John Locke is dead. TPTB had announced the loss of a well loved character and that it was a real death, not a coming back death. John Locke was that death.

[rock-lobster]

lockes body was hidden, so its safe to assume christians body is hidden also.

i don't follow. you think somebody grave-robbed christian? locke's body wasn't hidden, it was just in a crate.

[rock-lobster]

No one really knows what or who happened to Christian just yet and I wouldn't jump the gun with any conclusions! John Locke is dead. Please accept this as it is fact. Even Terry O'Quinn says he is preparing to play a different role next season, that John Locke is dead. TPTB had announced the loss of a well loved character and that it was a real death, not a coming back death. John Locke was that death.

perhaps john locke as we formally knew him is dead, maybe the new role he's getting ready for is this hybrid of the two characters? i understand that he's dead, but that doesn't mean he's out of the picture.

[smthng2dowthlost]

It's possible that the smoke monster and this new guy take people over differntly or shapeshift differently. Maybe one takes over bodies and one shapeshifts. I mean yemi was a decayed skeleton but he looked normal when whoever was controling him so we might not know how it works yet the body may or may not be necessary.

[rock-lobster]

It's possible that the smoke monster and this new guy take people over differntly or shapeshift differently. Maybe one takes over bodies and one shapeshifts. I mean yemi was a decayed skeleton but he looked normal when whoever was controling him so we might not know how it works yet the body may or may not be necessary.

i can certainly accept that, but at this point we still have very little reason not to believe that john locke is part of that sneaky dude who kicked jacob into the fire.

also, note that yemi's body was gone before the smoke monster appeared to eko with yemi's appearance as well.

[notsolost42]

perhaps john locke as we formally knew him is dead, maybe the new role he's getting ready for is this hybrid of the two characters? i understand that he's dead, but that doesn't mean he's out of the picture.

Well, Terry O'Quinn is still in the cast but John Locke is not. Does that help?

[smthng2dowthlost]

i can certainly accept that, but at this point we still have very little reason not to believe that john locke is part of that sneaky dude who kicked jacob into the fire.

also, note that yemi's body was gone before the smoke monster appeared to eko with yemi's appearance as well.

john locke being dead on the ground kinda makes me think he's not in on the plan but I guess you never know. Good point on yemi's disapearance but I wonder why take the body if it's totally unrecongnizable maybe it's like Miles power or somemthing IDK.

[rock-lobster]

Well, Terry O'Quinn is still in the cast but John Locke is not. Does that help?

a little bit.

[New Age Messiah]

John Locke is dead. Please accept this as it is fact. Even Terry O'Quinn says he is preparing to play a different role next season, that John Locke is dead. TPTB had announced the loss of a well loved character and that it was a real death, not a coming back death. John Locke was that death.Not so notso. Locke died, yes. O'Quinn said, I think, I think...

How can you know what he only THINKS?

He's either unaware exactly what the plot is and only reads his lines, or he's obfuscating the plot, mysteriously alluding to vague subtle nuances, kind of like two dog paintings mysteriously alluding to two worlds.

If O'Quinn is still in the show, he's still Locke, just now he's been reconstituted and is a new creation, merged with the divine.

[notsolost42]

I just love when people take things out of context just so they can "prove" their point. Here's what was said in the actual interview......


As for his character, O'Quinn says he's really gone. Locke's dead body was rolled out of a metal box toward the end of the two-hour episode, baffling islanders who had been following a Locke imposter. Exactly who is now occupying Locke's body wasn't revealed. O'Quinn said it would be "a good guess" to assume it's a man seen with the infamous Jacob in the beginning of the episode.

"I think, unfortunately, I think it's ended for Locke. But I'm still there, as far as I know," O'Quinn said. "I don't know how it's going to end for this other guy. I'm sad. I miss John Locke, poor guy. He was a pawn."

O'Quinn is gearing up to play a new character when the sixth season begins next year. As for the rest of the story line, he swears he has no idea.

"Your guess is honestly as good as mine is," he said. "There's going to be some confrontation that will somehow, I'm guessing, have to do with Jack or Locke or something like that. I think these guys are just setting up good and evil. It's the way Locke said in the very beginning of the show: One is light and one is dark. Two sides. I think that's what we've got."

[revror]

So, if "Locke" is antiJacob, does anyone have a theory how he knows so much about Locke's experiences?

[New Age Messiah]

I just love when people take things out of context just so they can "prove" their point. Here's what was said in the actual interview......I didn't want to post it, since it's in spoilers. It's clear he hasn't said anything concrete, it's EASY to see that Locke is dead, and that he was a pawn, in his "first" life. Now he has another life. It's that simple. He's a "new" character, with a "new" role. But, take this to the bank, it's still Locke.

[notsolost42]

I didn't want to post it, since it's in spoilers. It's clear he hasn't said anything concrete, it's EASY to see that Locke is dead, and that he was a pawn, in his "first" life. Now he has another life. It's that simple. He's a "new" character, with a "new" role. But, take this to the bank, it's still Locke.

Boy, am I glad I don't use the same bank as you!

[smthng2dowthlost]

Why would the actor playing locke say he's not playing locke anymore but some new guy if he's still playing locke I don't this logic.

[New Age Messiah]

Why would the actor playing locke say he's not playing locke anymore but some new guy if he's still playing locke I don't this logic.There's a new Locke. It's a new creation, just like I wrote about in the thread "Locke is a Transfigured Spirit".

There is no one else O'Quinn could play but Locke.

[Jelena]

O'Quinn could just be misleading. Do you really think they'd allow him to say anything about the show's future development?

Even though it does look to me like the real Locke is dead, I just can't get over what Jack said to Richard when R. asked about Locke back in 1977: "I wouldn't count him (Locke) out" - or something along those lines, I forget. :D

Oh, and I do think that Locke first died when he was thrown out the window, and that Jacob revived him.

[New Age Messiah]

O'Quinn could just be misleading. Do you really think they'd allow him to say anything about the show's future development?

Even though it does look to me like the real Locke is dead, I just can't get over what Jack said to Richard when R. asked about Locke back in 1977: "I wouldn't count him (Locke) out" - or something along those lines, I forget. :D

Oh, and I do think that Locke first died when he was thrown out the window, and that Jacob revived him.Good post. Nice picture, too. Richard asked Jack about Locke because he wanted to guage Jack, Richard already knew Locke was special, Richard FREAKED when Locke chose the knife as a boy. Now RIchard is getting scared of Jack, and trying to figure out if Jack has faith.

[TheNagual]

Well, Terry O'Quinn is still in the cast but John Locke is not. Does that help?

I havent seen a bigger Locke hater then you, I bet you love Ben/Liar/Judas a lot...

[notsolost42]

I havent seen a bigger Locke hater then you, I bet you love Ben/Liar/Judas a lot...

You're darned right I love Ben. Ben is the good guy! You'll see....go read the new thread I just posted.....it's a MUST READ!!!! OMG!!!!

[weldonryckman]

Nope. Locke created his own destiny. By simply going into the Hostiles' camp in 1954 and telling Richard that Jacob sent him and he was their future leader, he made his destiny as a 'special' person, when he really wasn't 'special' at all. At least, not in the sense that we had all believed and some still hope for. He was a pawn. The resurrected Locke we have been seeing is Jacob's enemy aka the smoke monster aka Esau and he has Locke's memories because he has Locke's brain/memory, but it's the enemies consciousness. Meaning Locke's kinda under remote control. And for Christian - I THINK that the coffin was busted open and broken, but I could be wrong, I remember Jack smashing it - his body could have easily been just taken out by the impostor Christian, since it is clear now that physical contact is possible. The reason Locke Prime didn't do that with Locke's old body was: a, he didn't have an opportunity (ok, he probably did) b, he didn't think that anyone would think to check the cargo for Locke's body, but Jacob told Illana that the body would be in there.

[weldonryckman]

Sorry about the double post, but I'd like to add that entering Season 5 and basically up until the finale I was an apostle of John Locke.

[TheNagual]

Sorry about the double post, but I'd like to add that entering Season 5 and basically up until the finale I was an apostle of John Locke.

Ilana and Co said "we re the good guys" just as Ben said the same thing.
Ben is Not a good guy as we all know.
He lied, manipulated, killed, betrayed.
It seems to me that they are the Pawns and doing whatever Jacob told em to.
Jacob and the other guy appeared for 2 min in the finale and everybody allready knows who s what and who.

[notsolost42]

Ilana and Co said "we re the good guys" just as Ben said the same thing.
Ben is Not a good guy as we all know.
He lied, manipulated, killed, betrayed.
It seems to me that they are the Pawns and doing whatever Jacob told em to.
Jacob and the other guy appeared for 2 min in the finale and everybody allready knows who s what and who.

Oh, so when deadlocke says that they are going to "take care" of all the other passengers from the Ajira flight he meant they were going to have breakfast served in the morning or something? I took it as he was going to off each and every one of them. And, he lied to Sun about finding Jin. So, deadlocke is a good guy???? Man, you are twisted if you think he's good! Ben is a good guy and always has been a good guy!!!!

[weldonryckman]

Ilana and Co said "we re the good guys" just as Ben said the same thing.
Ben is Not a good guy as we all know.
He lied, manipulated, killed, betrayed.
It seems to me that they are the Pawns and doing whatever Jacob told em to.
Jacob and the other guy appeared for 2 min in the finale and everybody allready knows who s what and who.

I agree, but we have nothing better to do on this site that theorize, so please bear with us. I would think that because Ilana and Jacob have some kind of previous affiliation, that she and Bram and company are not pawns but are of similar stature to Richard. Remember, Ben met Jacob for the first time in the Finale, and it was that way for a reason.

[Jelena]

Good post. Nice picture, too. Richard asked Jack about Locke because he wanted to guage Jack, Richard already knew Locke was special, Richard FREAKED when Locke chose the knife as a boy. Now RIchard is getting scared of Jack, and trying to figure out if Jack has faith.

Thank you. ;)

I think you're wrong. Richard knew Locke WAS NOT special. Richard was disappointed when Locke didn't choose the compass, but instead picked the knife. Because Locke came to him in 1950s and gave him the compass, Richard put him to the same test that children who are suspected to be reincarnations of Dalai Lama go through. When Locke picked the knife, Alpert was totally, utterly disappointed. So know, in my opinion, Richard didn't freak. He was genuinely curious about John.

[Calzer]

Oh, so when deadlocke says that they are going to "take care" of all the other passengers from the Ajira flight he meant they were going to have breakfast served in the morning or something? I took it as he was going to off each and every one of them. And, he lied to Sun about finding Jin. So, deadlocke is a good guy???? Man, you are twisted if you think he's good! Ben is a good guy and always has been a good guy!!!!

Not argueing about the "whose the good guy thing" but we truly don't know if Locke lied about jin at all, if all this incident - time travel stuff is relevant, then he would have told her the truth, since jin would be taken to the future. Again it's just an idea of mine :P.

[Panda]

With this vessel topic.....the movie Being John Malkovich popped up into my head.
A strange movie made in 1999 about someone that found a Portal to get into the head of John Malkovich.

It seems that people with the name John have somehow portals where you can enter into their head.:D

[Calzer]

With this vessel topic.....the movie Being John Malkovich popped up into my head.
A strange movie made in 1999 about someone that found a Portal to get into the head of John Malkovich.

It seems that people with the name John have somehow portals where you can enter into their head.:D

Ahahah awesome! LOL!

[New Age Messiah]

Thank you. ;)

I think you're wrong. Richard knew Locke WAS NOT special. When Locke picked the knife, Alpert was totally, utterly disappointed.I KNOW you're wrong. :)

Alpert freaked because he KNEW Locke was special and would kill Jacob, thereby stting Jacob free from Richard's EVIL SPELL. :)

It's hard for me to follow your thinking, how Richard could on the one hand think Locke wasn't special, and on the other hand, be mystified that Locke rose from the dead. I guess I wouldn't call it thinkng. :D

If there's Good vs. Evil on this show, Alpert is evil, and he uses Ben, he helps Ben. Widmore was good, and Ben tricked Widmore and stole Widmore's Black Rock Journal, giving Ben knowledge of who the Losties were off the island.

Everyone is a former passenger/crew member of the Black Rock. You'll see.

[notsolost42]

I KNOW you're wrong. :)

Alpert freaked because he KNEW Locke was special and would kill Jacob, thereby stting Jacob free from Richard's EVIL SPELL. :)

It's hard for me to follow your thinking, how Richard could on the one hand think Locke wasn't special, and on the other hand, be mystified that Locke rose from the dead. I guess I wouldn't call it thinkng. :D

If there's Good vs. Evil on this show, Alpert is evil, and he uses Ben, he helps Ben. Widmore was good, and Ben tricked Widmore and stole Widmore's Black Rock Journal, giving Ben knowledge of who the Losties were off the island.

Everyone is a former passenger/crew member of the Black Rock. You'll see.

The only people that deadlocke is intent on killing are all the passengers from the Ajira flight. He said this. Do you not hear the same things? Oh, never mind, bad question.

[rock-lobster]

Nope. Locke created his own destiny. By simply going into the Hostiles' camp in 1954 and telling Richard that Jacob sent him and he was their future leader, he made his destiny as a 'special' person, when he really wasn't 'special' at all. At least, not in the sense that we had all believed and some still hope for. He was a pawn. The resurrected Locke we have been seeing is Jacob's enemy aka the smoke monster aka Esau and he has Locke's memories because he has Locke's brain/memory, but it's the enemies consciousness. Meaning Locke's kinda under remote control. And for Christian - I THINK that the coffin was busted open and broken, but I could be wrong, I remember Jack smashing it - his body could have easily been just taken out by the impostor Christian, since it is clear now that physical contact is possible. The reason Locke Prime didn't do that with Locke's old body was: a, he didn't have an opportunity (ok, he probably did) b, he didn't think that anyone would think to check the cargo for Locke's body, but Jacob told Illana that the body would be in there.

for the record, when have we seen that physical contact is possible? anti-locke never touched anyone except when he kicked jacob into the flames, and jacobs a higher being himself, so...

Oh, so when deadlocke says that they are going to "take care" of all the other passengers from the Ajira flight he meant they were going to have breakfast served in the morning or something? I took it as he was going to off each and every one of them. And, he lied to Sun about finding Jin. So, deadlocke is a good guy???? Man, you are twisted if you think he's good! Ben is a good guy and always has been a good guy!!!!

i think anti-jacob/deadlocke is a good guy who does bad things.

i think the exact same thing about ben. i know and understand that a lot of people would call you crazy for thinking ben is a good person.

Thank you. ;)

I think you're wrong. Richard knew Locke WAS NOT special. Richard was disappointed when Locke didn't choose the compass, but instead picked the knife. Because Locke came to him in 1950s and gave him the compass, Richard put him to the same test that children who are suspected to be reincarnations of Dalai Lama go through. When Locke picked the knife, Alpert was totally, utterly disappointed. So know, in my opinion, Richard didn't freak. He was genuinely curious about John.

then why did a man by the name of Richard Alpert want John to come to his science camp several years later?

The only people that deadlocke is intent on killing are all the passengers from the Ajira flight. He said this. Do you not hear the same things? Oh, never mind, bad question.

i'm curious, do you think he meant everyone on the ajira flight or just ilana's crew? i've been wondering that.

in fact, i'm not so sure he is talking about killing them. it's very ambiguous and i thought he said "take care of," but having just watched the scene again, he says "deal with." different tone to those two phrases, and richard's astounded reaction wouldn't make much sense if he was talking about killing them. after all, we've seen richard and friends kill intruders to the island quite a few times now. the purge, "exterminating" rousseau, killing the US army members.

[lostmeanslost]

good lock is gone we have not seen the last of him because with jacob said to hurley in the taxi its a good thing to see your your dead friend and when hurley gets back to the normal time the gorst of good lock will guilde him

[New Age Messiah]

The only people that deadlocke is intent on killing are all the passengers from the Ajira flight. He said this. Do you not hear the same things? Oh, never mind, bad question.I didn't hear that, or if I did, I put it in a different context than you.

[natego]

My basic theory on this:

Jacob is in control of Christian/Claire.
Anti-Jacob is an apparition of Locke and Locke is dead.

Jacob can bring people back to life (hence only one body - Christian, bringing John Locke back to life after the fall out the window)
Anti-Jacob is only a vision of the original person, but the dead body/remains are still there, a separate entity.

Anti-Jacob can only hijack the form of dead people on the island which he does in order to deceive other characters.

But, I believe that Christian when appearing to Michael on the freighter may have been Anti-Jacob, pilfering the form of Christian. If Jacob's plan was to bring the Oceanic 815 Losties to the island as an army/crew to help him, then it was Anti-Jacob's plan to remove as many of them from the island as possible so Jacob's plan fails. Hence Christian showing up here is telling Michael his job is done in helping to facilitate the removal of the 06 from the island (fulfilling Anti-Jacob's goals). PLUS I believe the "Whispers" may be a sign of Anti-Jacob's spirit. Either that, or Jacob's plan was to have the 06 removed all along, but I don't think I believe this take.

The one thing that rubs wrong against my basic theory is that Christian is seen in the Cabin which is hinted at being used by the Anti-Jacob character, which would lead us to believe that Christian is and always has been Anti-Jacob.