Having A Hard Time Explaining...

[Doriandan]

I know this may have been covered but I feel at the season's end it would be a good time to reflect on this question.

I was trying to explain to my fiance why the incident is what had happened all along and my brain started hurting.

I recall the conversation with Miles & Hurly in Dharmaville where Miles was explaining things. Did this happen all along as he suggests? More specifically..

1) did Sayid shoot Ben in 77 all along?

2) did Kate & Sawyer "create" the Ben Linus we know via RA?

3) did Jin wash up with Danielle's crew all along or was that an alteration of the past?

4) did Locke really introduce himself to RA in 54' before he was born or was that another alteration?

5) did Faraday honestly die in 77' so that he may be born in the future?

I have a hard time answering Miles comment about Jack actually CAUSING the incident which led to the hatch, which led to button not being pressed, which led to 815 crash which led to ... etc.

Sorry I know this has been discussed but it would be good to reflect a little on some of these thoughts.
:)
-DJM-

[krakup]

I know this may have been covered but I feel at the season's end it would be a good time to reflect on this question.

I was trying to explain to my fiance why the incident is what had happened all along and my brain started hurting.

I recall the conversation with Miles & Hurly in Dharmaville where Miles was explaining things. Did this happen all along as he suggests? More specifically..

1) did Sayid shoot Ben in 77 all along?
possibly no and course correction occured
2) did Kate & Sawyer "create" the Ben Linus we know via RA?
possible
3) did Jin wash up with Danielle's crew all along or was that an alteration of the past?
it seems to me jin did arrive with rosseau
4) did Locke really introduce himself to RA in 54' before he was born or was that another alteration?
i think this is a pivotal question (idk)
5) did Faraday honestly die in 77' so that he may be born in the future?
not sure why he would have to die in '77
I have a hard time answering Miles comment about Jack actually CAUSING the incident which led to the hatch, which led to button not being pressed, which led to 815 crash which led to ... etc.

Sorry I know this has been discussed but it would be good to reflect a little on some of these thoughts.
:)
-DJM-

my random thoughts on your post. i thought miles comment about the incident was brilliant. total ambiguity, total lost :)

[Doriandan]

Indeed it makes me insane trying to figure it all out...

[Pung]

Doriandan,

All of these questions have different answers depending on how you feel about the rules of time travel. If you think that the past can be changed with time travel, then everything the losties are doing is changing the past. If you believe in whatever happened, happened, then all of the stuff we have seen with the time traveling did happen in chronological order. So locke was in 1954, even before his actual birth in 1956, and Dan was shot by his mother while she was pregnant with him.

Its tough to choose sides, but if you want answers to those questions right now, then you will have to step on one side of the line or the other.

[Brother Desmond]

It's difficult to know for sure whether or not these events always happened this way, or if events were changed due to the appearance of time traveling people.

Take the incident for example. Before this season's finale all we knew is that the incident happened. Nothing else. No details were given describing exactly how it happened. It's possible, like Miles said, that everything Jack did lead directly to the incident occuring. Jack, not having prior knowledge of how the incident happened, believed he was changing something, when in fact he was ensuring the incident occured as it always did.

I'm inclined to believe that little details here and there can be altered, but ultimately, what happened, happened. I believe all the things mentioned in the original post happened, and this season we were shown first-hand how they happened.

[Pung]

It's difficult to know for sure whether or not these events always happened this way, or if events were changed due appearance of time traveling people.

Take the incident for example. Before this season's finale all we knew is that the incident happened. Nothing else. No details were given describing exactly how it happened. It's possible, like Miles said, that everything Jack did lead directly to the incident occuring. Jack, not having prior knowledge of how the incident happened, believed he was changing something, when in fact he was ensuring the incident occured as it always did.

I'm inclined to believe that little details here and there can be altered, but ultimately, what happened, happened. I believe all the things mentioned in the original post happened, and this season we were shown first-hand how they happened.

amen brother d

[Doriandan]

So....
If I believe that What Happened Happened...then
Jack's actions was the incident and it happened all along and the Dharma Hatch video portrays THAT incident.

Conversely, If I believe Jack altered the past then the same Dharma video doesn't apply or would be altered?

This is deep! :eek:

-DJM-

[HisNameIsRobertPaulson]

The show has only shown us one set of events, so we haven't seen anything actually change from some other allleged occurance. We've only witnessed one way that things went down. So I would say that the show, to this extent, is holding fast to WHH. To date, we have seen no evidence of a change in history or the existence of an alternate universe.

[Pung]

So....
If I believe that What Happened Happened...then
Jack's actions was the incident and it happened all along and the Dharma Hatch video portrays THAT incident.

Conversely, If I believe Jack altered the past then the same Dharma video doesn't apply or would be altered?

This is deep! :eek:

-DJM-

Doriandan,
I'm in complete agreement with brother d and paulson, here is a thread with some good posts in it discussing the topic.

http://www.lost.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8826&highlight=loyal+supporters+whatever+happened

[Doriandan]

great stuff!

thanks for the map!