I like the staircase and overlapping tape analogies ya’ll are using. It helps me to picture the realities sequentially. The universe expands, reverses, and then reemerges in exact agreement with its predecessor up to the appearance of a traveler from the preceding incarnation. And like you said, Chester, events may disagree from there.
But is there an indefinite number of steps? Does anyone else suspect that LOST-verse will end up being some grand causal loop – that the 'top' step is the 'bottom'?
Care to expand on this thought at all, lost-a-lot?
I can’t add much of anything scientific, Chester. Honestly, the time-travel stuff is a real headache. I was thinking today about time-travel in the Faustian World you brought up once and darn near had an aneurism!
It just seems some things, added up, may point to there being no original timeline. Things like the ‘balance’ imagery of the Dharma logo. Yin yang has popped up somewhere... The ‘reincarnation’ anagram may have further meaning. The symbiotic banyan – that seemed important once. Mirrors and more mirrors. There’s Rose’s déjà vu moment in the Pilot and Locke’s causal toy from way back. -- Locke’s very strong sense of destiny. There are possible causal loops in Faraday’s name and Faraday’s machine settings. The seemingly self-existing compass’ 360° may be doubly symbolic.
It would be a bit of a bummer, though. The universe as a multi-faceted but unchanging cycle means that everything is predetermined. But the illusion of free agency a cross-reality traveler can enjoy is, IMO, far more palatable than the contrivances necessary to maintain the illusion in a basic one-timeline time-travel drama. ugh
I can’t add much of anything scientific, Chester. Honestly, the time-travel stuff is a real headache. I was thinking today about time-travel in the Faustian World you brought up once and darn near had an aneurism!
It just seems some things, added up, may point to there being no original timeline. Things like the ‘balance’ imagery of the Dharma logo. Yin yang has popped up somewhere... The ‘reincarnation’ anagram may have further meaning. The symbiotic banyan – that seemed important once. Mirrors and more mirrors. There’s Rose’s déjà vu moment in the Pilot and Locke’s causal toy from way back. -- Locke’s very strong sense of destiny. There are possible causal loops in Faraday’s name and Faraday’s machine settings. The seemingly self-existing compass’ 360° may be doubly symbolic.
It would be a bit of a bummer, though. The universe as a multi-faceted but unchanging cycle means that everything is predetermined. But the illusion of free agency a cross-reality traveler can enjoy is, IMO, far more palatable than the contrivances necessary to maintain the illusion in a basic one-timeline time-travel drama. ugh
Yeah, what he (or she) said.
Honesty LAL, I appreciate your thoughts very much. I think TPTB are in a pickle and no matter how they resolve the time issue, some will be disappointed. My hope is that they actually take a stand one way or the other and don't just leave it unresolved. That's copping out as far as I'm concerned.
I'm interested in your determination that no original timeline means that everything is predetermined. How did you come to that conclusion? I agree 100% that free-will (although you used the term free agency - is this the same? I only know that term in the context of sports, so I'm a bit confused.) is A LOT more palatable!
__________________ "And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."
I can’t add much of anything scientific, Chester. Honestly, the time-travel stuff is a real headache. I was thinking today about time-travel in the Faustian World you brought up once and darn near had an aneurism!
It just seems some things, added up, may point to there being no original timeline. Things like the ‘balance’ imagery of the Dharma logo. Yin yang has popped up somewhere... The ‘reincarnation’ anagram may have further meaning. The symbiotic banyan – that seemed important once. Mirrors and more mirrors. There’s Rose’s déjà vu moment in the Pilot and Locke’s causal toy from way back. -- Locke’s very strong sense of destiny. There are possible causal loops in Faraday’s name and Faraday’s machine settings. The seemingly self-existing compass’ 360° may be doubly symbolic.
It would be a bit of a bummer, though. The universe as a multi-faceted but unchanging cycle means that everything is predetermined. But the illusion of free agency a cross-reality traveler can enjoy is, IMO, far more palatable than the contrivances necessary to maintain the illusion in a basic one-timeline time-travel drama. ugh
I think that aneurism is contagious.
What do you mean by a "multifaceted but unchanging cycle", as compared to "basic one-timeline"?
In the model with the stick and tape, everyone still has free-will (or agency). But there's still really only one time-line - ie., one (never ending?) roll of tape.
By "Faustian World" do you mean one where time-travellers have used their ability to set things up to suit them at the expense of the rest they work to keep ignorant of the fact, or a "mirror" type world that could exist amongst us but be immune from our detection?
Say there are just two realities. Reality A leads to B, and B leads to A. Both are real; neither is original. If there’s a loop, all 'choices' made are inevitable because a loop will not vary. It’s WHH & WH will H. It's WHWH, WWHH, WHWWHWHzkiwkjiawwfudge
chester, sorry. Instead of 'basic one-timeline story,' make that 'one reality story,' or a WHH story with no hidden realities. The individual realities in a cycle would be facets of the unchanging whole. a-b-c-a-b-c
I'm interested in the backward time and entropy (are they the same?) ascribed to the supposed Faustian World and was wondering if that idea might be necessary to support codependent, regenerating realities in LOST, whether it’s just two worlds (universes) or some larger system. But even if the idea has merit, it’s beyond me...
Stalemate is just a possibility, though. Travelers to the past in your description are free agents, so there would be a chance for the bad guy(s) in LOST to win. That’s good drama.
I think d43m0n's model is correct, but there's something that puzzles me. On-Island Des would be the product of a reality in which he doesn't physically visit Faraday at Oxford. Yet on-Island Faraday appears to be the one who was visited since he has the device coordinates and suffers from memory loss due his using the device. So did one or the other cross worlds when he reached the Island? Or does it mean two Faradays were visited in like manner and that the realities are codependent? What do you guys think?
Maybe Faraday found some other way to come up with the right 'device coordinates', like good ol' trial and error say, before time-travelling Des came to see him and just gave them to him?
I was trying to come up with a timeline for the important events in desmond's life, and I ended up drawing one so I thought I'd share it with you, in the hope that it will clear some things and maybe understand more of how time travel works in Lost. Post your ideas,corrections,etc
How did I ever miss this conversation? I need to venture outside the general discussion area more often I suppose. I like that people are making diagrams, timelines, and flow charts to explain Lost now. I agree; A for effort on the OP.
How did I ever miss this conversation? I need to venture outside the general discussion area more often I suppose. I like that people are making diagrams, timelines, and flow charts to explain Lost now. I agree; A for effort on the OP.
Geeez Baxie, you really do need to get out more!!!
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) is A LOT more palatable!
"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."
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