Glad you mentioned this Ort. I feel it gets a little overlooked that Daniel's developed some serious issues with his brain function in his life, and it was the island that was supposed to correct his mind so he could work on complex math on the island. I think it reasonable that studying away from the island for an extended period of time could have a detrimental effect on his mind, and his judgment....thus the WHH position flip
The other possibility i thought was that maybe Daniel was looking at the big equation (for lack of a better term) in simpler terms. If people are variables, and can be changed, then perhaps course correction is just the universe tweaking a separate variable to make the final solution the same.
here's how i'm looking at this. let's say x + y + z= 25. let's say your input in the world is x, and let's say the first time through a particular stretch of time you are given y=10 and z = 2 so x has to equal 13. now let's say you do the equation again, and you dont want to get to 25, so you change x (you change your input on the situation). as i understand the theory on course correction would then cause y or z or both to change just so the result of 25 is consistent. it doesnt matter how we got to 25, but its the same result in the end.
having said that, here's what i think Daniel may have been doing by talking to young charlotte and warning Dr chang to evac the island. he was keeping the y and z variables and every other variable the same so if he changes his input on the situation, then maybe just maybe the result is different.
i hope that makes sense....
That's pretty much what Rachelskid and myself have been suggesting. Your 25 would be my 'course' that things get corrected towards when things get changed in the past. But what is that 25 (or course)?
I think though, that on the left-hand-side of your equation, there should be some constant expressions, which would be any happenings not the result of people making decisions.
The math equation is a great analogy for the course correction stuff. I just don't like this idea personally. If Faraday can change his variable in the equation then WHO is altering the other variables so that the same outcome is obtained? This implies that there is some unknown force manipulating things. In the context of Lost that could be Jacob or something but if you want to apply what you learn in Lost to your real life then you have to assume that their is some destiny or gods controlling things, which I don't like.
For their to be real free will the result of the equation must also be a variable:
x +2y +.5z = F
where F represents the fate of the world? By the way, I think Faraday was wrong. According to the story about the Valenzetti equation, the "constants" (2 and .5 in this example) are actually human behavior. The variables (x, y, and z) are "environmental" factors such as the existence of nuclear weapons, hurricanes, wars, etc. and F was mutually assured destruction based on the current environmental circumstances. The DI were trying to change the environment, not people. That's my theory anyway.
The math equation is a great analogy for the course correction stuff. I just don't like this idea personally. If Faraday can change his variable in the equation then WHO is altering the other variables so that the same outcome is obtained? This implies that there is some unknown force manipulating things. In the context of Lost that could be Jacob or something but if you want to apply what you learn in Lost to your real life then you have to assume that their is some destiny or gods controlling things, which I don't like.
For their to be real free will the result of the equation must also be a variable:
x +2y +.5z = F
where F represents the fate of the world? By the way, I think Faraday was wrong. According to the story about the Valenzetti equation, the "constants" (2 and .5 in this example) are actually human behavior. The variables (x, y, and z) are "environmental" factors such as the existence of nuclear weapons, hurricanes, wars, etc. and F was mutually assured destruction based on the current environmental circumstances. The DI were trying to change the environment, not people. That's my theory anyway.
I think Dharma had it wrong. I think the variables involved in "envionmental" factors such as nuclear weapons and war etc (even hurricanes), in terms of time-travel, are due to human input. I think Faraday had it right, people making decisions are the variables.
That's pretty much what Rachelskid and myself have been suggesting. Your 25 would be my 'course' that things get corrected towards when things get changed in the past. But what is that 25 (or course)?
I think though, that on the left-hand-side of your equation, there should be some constant expressions, which would be any happenings not the result of people making decisions.
25 - an arbitrary number i selected just to make the point. yes i should have put constants on both sides, but was trying to keep it as simple as possible so i didnt lose myself halfway through typing...like when i have to stop and do my job
The math equation is a great analogy for the course correction stuff. I just don't like this idea personally. If Faraday can change his variable in the equation then WHO is altering the other variables so that the same outcome is obtained? This implies that there is some unknown force manipulating things. In the context of Lost that could be Jacob or something but if you want to apply what you learn in Lost to your real life then you have to assume that their is some destiny or gods controlling things, which I don't like.
For their to be real free will the result of the equation must also be a variable:
x +2y +.5z = F
where F represents the fate of the world? By the way, I think Faraday was wrong. According to the story about the Valenzetti equation, the "constants" (2 and .5 in this example) are actually human behavior. The variables (x, y, and z) are "environmental" factors such as the existence of nuclear weapons, hurricanes, wars, etc. and F was mutually assured destruction based on the current environmental circumstances. The DI were trying to change the environment, not people. That's my theory anyway.
Well i look at this only in the context of lost....not real life. i dont feel my life idealogies and theological beliefs can be defined by 5-6ths of a tv show...lets see what happens next first
who controls the other variables? well that would be the great question. I dont look at a governing force like God or whatever you choose influencing the outcome as a loss of free will necessarily, but i think that with each persons exercise of free will there is a reactionary force exerted upon that person to keep some kind of balance, but i think that's why Faraday was trying to control the other variables, by influencing Charlottes and Dr Changs actions, he keeps their decisions from impacting the major change he's attempting to make....but since he's now dead and cannot control Jack, Sayid, juliet, Sawyer, etc then universe is going to figure itself back out...
...with Desmonds help (but thats a discussion for another thread)
as for listing a variable on the right side, yes you're probably right that it should be a variable, but then i thought to Jacob saying "it only ends once" like there may be a finite result...just having fun with the argument.
so now looking at what you said about the Valenzetti equation...which do you think? the variables are the environmental factors or the people?
25 - an arbitrary number i selected just to make the point. yes i should have put constants on both sides, but was trying to keep it as simple as possible so i didnt lose myself halfway through typing...like when i have to stop and do my job
Yes, I realise it is an arbitrary number that you used in your analogy. But what is it supposed to represent in LOST?
One thing I am fuzzy on about Daniel because I need to finish rewatching S5, but where did he go? In the first episode we see him in the Orchid while they are drilling. We then see him time skipping with the rest of the losties, then when the O6 return to the island, Jack asks about Farraday and Sawyer just says "he's gone". I do remember seeing him pop back coming off the sub, but where did he go? Was that ever fully answered?
Aside: when we first met Daniel and saw him crying, it was because he knows subconsciously that the plane crash was part of the sequence of events that made him lose Charlotte.
I think Dharma had it wrong. I think the variables involved in "envionmental" factors such as nuclear weapons and war etc (even hurricanes), in terms of time-travel, are due to human input. I think Faraday had it right, people making decisions are the variables.
So you are saying that time traveling humans can cause hurricanes? Can you explain a hypothetical situation where a hurricane is caused by time travel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by yokogleeton
Well i look at this only in the context of lost....not real life. i dont feel my life idealogies and theological beliefs can be defined by 5-6ths of a tv show...lets see what happens next first
Yes I agree that until season 6 concludes it is difficult to draw a clear conclusion from the show. But I think any good work of fiction should have some comparisons or analogies to real life that you can take away and apply to your own life and personal beliefs. I would be disappointed if I can't apply any of the lessons learned from the show to real life. It's possible that the writers think we all have a destiny and purpose that is out of our own control; I was just saying I don't know if I personally agree or like that message.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd95
Aside: when we first met Daniel and saw him crying, it was because he knows subconsciously that the plane crash was part of the sequence of events that made him lose Charlotte.
My theory about this is that Daniel's mind was skipping around in time, so it is possible that the plane wreckage triggered some "memories" that he somehow experienced via his consciousness time traveling. This was what happened to his girlfriend who he said he experimented on first and I assume he did the same experiment on himself and it's also what happened to his mouse, Eloise, which is why it already knew how to complete the maze after he zapped it.
So you are saying that time traveling humans can cause hurricanes? Can you explain a hypothetical situation where a hurricane is caused by time travel?
I was just saying that maybe humans can affect hurricanes, whether they are time-travelling or not, more as an aside. Or at least Bill Gates thinks so.
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